Capital gains tax question

[TyGrr]

I know in Thailand capital gains other than a few listed things like stocks, and land are taxed at the normal income rate.

 

However I have heard that if a commodity was bought or sold outside of thailand, or held outside of Thailand for more than a year no taxes need to be paid.

 

Does any one know where I should look for a source on this? I'm try to sort up my wifes taxes for the year.

 

Thank you.

[AlexRich]

If there is little chance of the Thai tax authorities knowing about the transaction I’d just omit it. I didn’t think that CGT applied to overseas assets.

[AlexRich]

Just looked up a Deloitte publication - foreign sourced income repatriated after one year is exempt. So as long as you do not bring the income generated back to Thailand within one year of the sale you are on safe ground. And no need to disclose.

[TyGrr]

The amounts are great enough that we run the risk of the authorities knowing. We want to comply and be 100% legal anyway.

 

We are aware of the 1 year rule we just want to find where it is stated. I want to show it to my lawyer. Can you give me a bit more info on where you found it?

 

Thank you.

[AlexRich]

43 minutes ago, TyGrr said:

The amounts are great enough that we run the risk of the authorities knowing. We want to comply and be 100% legal anyway.

 

We are aware of the 1 year rule we just want to find where it is stated. I want to show it to my lawyer. Can you give me a bit more info on where you found it?

 

Thank you.

 

If you look at section 6.0 there is a table that explains it perfectly. Your wife is indeed taxable on world wide gains but can avoid tax if repatriation of the funds exceeds 12 months.

[AlexRich]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Has not come through ... Google "Deloitte Taxation and Investment in Thailand 2017 pdf" ... then refer to section 6.

 

 

 

[TyGrr]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

If you look at section 6.0 there is a table that explains it perfectly. Your wife is indeed taxable on world wide gains but can avoid tax if repatriation of the funds exceeds 12 months.

Thanks so much!

[TyGrr]

I have also been told that if it was bought or sold outside of Thailand that matters. Does anyone have any information on this?

 

Thanks so much.

[AlexRich]

I suspect it only matters in the sense that it comes under the repatriation rule discussed above. If an asset was bought and sold in Thailand it would not be subject to this rule ... and therefore would be automatically liable for tax, presuming of course that it is a taxable item.

[topt]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 9:51 PM, AlexRich said:

but can avoid tax if repatriation of the funds exceeds 12 months.

This may be pedantic and if so apologies but it is not specifically 12 months. As the booklet states

Quote

....are treated as income only if remitted into Thailand in the same year derived..........

So if earned in December 2017 you could remit into Thailand in January 2018 (one month later) and not be liable.

[fletchsmile]

On 11/18/2017 at 9:05 PM, TyGrr said:

The amounts are great enough that we run the risk of the authorities knowing. We want to comply and be 100% legal anyway.

 

We are aware of the 1 year rule we just want to find where it is stated. I want to show it to my lawyer. Can you give me a bit more info on where you found it?

 

Thank you.

PWC also do a good booklet on Thai tax

 

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/publications/assets/thai-tax-2017-18-booklet-en.pdf

 

From page 2

 

Quote

Residents and non-residents are taxed on their assessable income derived from employment or business carried on in Thailand, regardless of whether such income is paid in or outside Thailand. Residents who derive income from outside Thailand will be subject to tax only where the income is remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is derived

BTW If you need to show this to your lawyer, I suggest you change lawyers, or at the very least don't use this lawyer for this area of advice. It's clear that their area of expertise (if any LOL ) lies elsewhere. I would expect any decent lawyer who is advising your business on foreign trade and tax to know this :)

[TyGrr]

@fletchsmile    Yes, we will not use this lawyer for tax stuff, they have no idea what they are doing. They will be able to help me out in other stuff. Do you know of any good lawyers in this area?

 

Thank you.

[fletchsmile]

27 minutes ago, TyGrr said:

@fletchsmile    Yes, we will not use this lawyer for tax stuff, they have no idea what they are doing. They will be able to help me out in other stuff. Do you know of any good lawyers in this area?

 

Thank you.

Most of the decent accounting firms will also cover tax, and could well be more useful than lawyers for it. Most of the decent accounting firms also have legal arms linked to them, and can be better in my view for financial type law.

 

The big ones like PWC, Deloitte's, KPMG, Ernst and Young can be expensive though for small businesses and individual tax, and better suit MNC's for companies and high net worth individuals.

 

The next tier of Mazars, Baker Tilly, PKF, Grant Thornton etc may be better value for money, but some still might consider expensive.

 

If I were looking for myself I'd probably start with Mazars and see what they quote offer. Then adjust up / down from there

 

Small accounting firms often have decent tax knowledge too, but it can be more variable. Don't really have one I can recommend though off the top of my head.

 

In the past, basic tax like this I would do myself for personal income or have accountants working for me if business related.

 

 

 

 

[FruitPudding]

I was wondering if I owe any tax and to whom.

 

I am British. I am no longer a tax resident there. Thailand is my tax residence.

 

I invest in US stocks through a European broker (not in my home country).

 

Do I owe Thailand tax? I am certain I don't have to pay tax to Britain, and surely not America, right?

Edited February 4, 2018 by FruitPudding

[SantiSuk]

To quote relevant extracts from the PWC international accounting firm* tax booklet that Fletchsmile provides a link for in an above post:

 

"Residents and non-residents are taxed on their assessable income" ..{defined quite broadly - see below}.. "derived from employment or business carried on in Thailand, regardless of whether such income is paid in or outside Thailand. Residents who derive" ..{assessable}.. "income from outside Thailand will be subject to tax only where the income is remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is derived.

Assessable income is classified into eight categories:

1. Salaries and wages (including income from stock options, other equity compensation and other fringe benefits)

.....

4. Interest, dividend, bonus for investors, gain on amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of a company or partnership, gain on transfer of shares, etc."

{there's 8 categories of assessable income - only 2 mentioned here}

 

So section 4 of assessable income is directly relevant to you and therefore dividends and other returns from equities (but not capital gains) are assessable to Thai taxation if and only if the monetary amounts are remitted to Thailand in the (calendar) year in which the income item is derived. Make sure that you either reinvest any such income and can demonstrate that the reinvestment-boosted capital value is still there at the current calendar year end and it will not be assessable income in the following calendar year (or put the income in another holding account and keep it there for the rest of the year so you can demonstrate the same effect if called to do so). You can live off a withdrawal of capital which of course includes accumulated income that was existant at the end of the previous year.

 

"Capital Gains

Most types of capital gains are taxable as ordinary income, except for the following which are exempt from tax: .... "

 

Read the exemptions yourself but if you are investing in US equities through say a Luxembourg broker (ie non-Thai/non-Asean) the capital gain will be taxable as ordinary {assessable} income and subject to the same rules about remittance that applies to dividends. Keep the gains until after the calendar year end and the amounts are not assessable to income (or any other) tax in Thailand.

You do not need to include details of any income that is not assessable to Thai taxation in any Thai tax return.

 

*I retired from partnership in that firm 10 years ago which is why I quote PwC and not Deloitte!

 

[SantiSuk]

Forgot to add:

 

You will probably be subject to withholding tax on any dividend and similar income from directly held shares of US registered securities, but I'm not well-versed about the ins and outs of this. You could avoid this by choosing mutual type funds that are registered in the UK (or any other country that does not charge witholding tax on such instruments) and possibly some ETF -type instruments have a more favourable treatment.

 

Likely 15%, would at least be deductible from any Thai taxation liability on same - if you were assessable for any. Likely broker will ask you to complete a US tax form W8-BEN

 

Investing directly in US equities anywhere in the world involves more bollux than is worthwhile IMO

[FruitPudding]

5 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

To quote relevant extracts from the PWC international accounting firm* tax booklet that Fletchsmile provides a link for in an above post:

 

"Residents and non-residents are taxed on their assessable income" ..{defined quite broadly - see below}.. "derived from employment or business carried on in Thailand, regardless of whether such income is paid in or outside Thailand. Residents who derive" ..{assessable}.. "income from outside Thailand will be subject to tax only where the income is remitted into Thailand in the year in which it is derived.

Assessable income is classified into eight categories:

1. Salaries and wages (including income from stock options, other equity compensation and other fringe benefits)

.....

4. Interest, dividend, bonus for investors, gain on amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of a company or partnership, gain on transfer of shares, etc."

{there's 8 categories of assessable income - only 2 mentioned here}

 

So section 4 of assessable income is directly relevant to you and therefore dividends and other returns from equities (but not capital gains) are assessable to Thai taxation if and only if the monetary amounts are remitted to Thailand in the (calendar) year in which the income item is derived. Make sure that you either reinvest any such income and can demonstrate that the reinvestment-boosted capital value is still there at the current calendar year end and it will not be assessable income in the following calendar year (or put the income in another holding account and keep it there for the rest of the year so you can demonstrate the same effect if called to do so). You can live off a withdrawal of capital which of course includes accumulated income that was existant at the end of the previous year.

 

"Capital Gains

Most types of capital gains are taxable as ordinary income, except for the following which are exempt from tax: .... "

 

Read the exemptions yourself but if you are investing in US equities through say a Luxembourg broker (ie non-Thai/non-Asean) the capital gain will be taxable as ordinary {assessable} income and subject to the same rules about remittance that applies to dividends. Keep the gains until after the calendar year end and the amounts are not assessable to income (or any other) tax in Thailand.

You do not need to include details of any income that is not assessable to Thai taxation in any Thai tax return.

 

*I retired from partnership in that firm 10 years ago which is why I quote PwC and not Deloitte!

 

Thank you for all that information!

[FruitPudding]

5 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Forgot to add:

 

You will probably be subject to withholding tax on any dividend and similar income from directly held shares of US registered securities, but I'm not well-versed about the ins and outs of this. You could avoid this by choosing mutual type funds that are registered in the UK (or any other country that does not charge witholding tax on such instruments) and possibly some ETF -type instruments have a more favourable treatment.

 

Likely 15%, would at least be deductible from any Thai taxation liability on same - if you were assessable for any. Likely broker will ask you to complete a US tax form W8-BEN

 

Investing directly in US equities anywhere in the world involves more bollux than is worthwhile IMO

Yeah, I filled out a W8-BEN went I opened the account. The broker was interested to know where my tax resdence is and even wanted to confirm that when speaking on the phone.

 

Thanks again. Your info is really helpful

Edited February 6, 2018 by FruitPudding

[marcinbkk1]

Is this applying also to crypto? As I'm not english fluent, not sure I understand everyhing what you guys wrote here. According to your posts:

 

example A

Cryptocurrencie's sold in september 2018 on crypto exchange from singapore or hong kong > I leave funds in dollars on this exchange until january 2019 and then make withdrawal to my thai bank account

- no tax in thailand?

 

example B 

Cryptocurrencie's sold in december 2018 on localbitcoins for cash in singapore > than I deposit this money into my thai bank account in january 2019

- no tax in thailand?

 

I wanna be ok with AML rules - I wanna use this money for buy stocks later - so when banks will ask me for source of my funds I can tell them I just sold cryptocurrencies and I have everything done in accordance with the regulations

[TyGrr]

On 9/21/2018 at 7:28 PM, marcinbkk1 said:

Is this applying also to crypto? As I'm not english fluent, not sure I understand everyhing what you guys wrote here. According to your posts:

 

example A

Cryptocurrencie's sold in september 2018 on crypto exchange from singapore or hong kong > I leave funds in dollars on this exchange until january 2019 and then make withdrawal to my thai bank account

- no tax in thailand?

 

example B 

Cryptocurrencie's sold in december 2018 on localbitcoins for cash in singapore > than I deposit this money into my thai bank account in january 2019

- no tax in thailand?

 

I wanna be ok with AML rules - I wanna use this money for buy stocks later - so when banks will ask me for source of my funds I can tell them I just sold cryptocurrencies and I have everything done in accordance with the regulations

as far as I understand it, this is correct. I am not a lawyer.