You are Going to Die – Are You Ready

[soalbundy]

On 2/24/2018 at 2:44 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

It occurred to me recently that if we knew for sure there was no hell to be punished in after death, many/ most of us would act very badly.

I don't think so, most people get no pleasure from being bad, the reactions of others would soon curb your enthusiasm for being evil. As a species we have survived due to cooperation which is why we can live in tribes and obey laws.

[soalbundy]

On 3/21/2018 at 2:09 PM, transam said:

No, that is life and life expiration...Humans ain't special, we live and die.End of our planet "creatures" story..

Raymond Moody, Psychologist philosopher, physician and author ('Life after life') related an interesting situation he had at a conference. An Italian surgeon, somewhat perplexed, cornered him in a room and told him the following:-

"I was doing a routine operation on a young fit man, no complications were expected but during the operation his heart stopped beating, I tried desperately to restart his heart but to no avail. I didn't want to confront his wife who was waiting outside the operating theater immediately so I sat down to write out the death certificate. Suddenly the door burst open and a wild eyed woman shouted at me that her husband had just told her that he wasn't dead and that I should continue to resuscitate him and she dragged me to the operating table, she explained that her husband had said he had tried to speak with me but couldn't connect to me so he went to his wife. I restarted the resuscitation and his heart started to beat again,he made a full recovery.

[Odysseus123]

48 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Raymond Moody, Psychologist philosopher, physician and author ('Life after life') related an interesting situation he had at a conference. An Italian surgeon, somewhat perplexed, cornered him in a room and told him the following:-

"I was doing a routine operation on a young fit man, no complications were expected but during the operation his heart stopped beating, I tried desperately to restart his heart but to no avail. I didn't want to confront his wife who was waiting outside the operating theater immediately so I sat down to write out the death certificate. Suddenly the door burst open and a wild eyed woman shouted at me that her husband had just told her that he wasn't dead and that I should continue to resuscitate him and she dragged me to the operating table, she explained that her husband had said he had tried to speak with me but couldn't connect to me so he went to his wife. I restarted the resuscitation and his heart started to beat again,he made a full recovery.

It is very difficult to really interact in a topic like this.

 

In a way it just becomes a series of irrefutable statements based on "Faith" as to how one experiences the world around us  and is rather similar to discussions about the religious experience in general and,as such,is naturally based on whatever testimony fits in with our own views.

 

I certainly knew two elderly people who gravely informed me that they were going to die on my shift and did-though ,hopefully, they were not offering a commentary on my nursing competence.

[bannork]

50 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

It is very difficult to really interact in a topic like this.

 

In a way it just becomes a series of irrefutable statements based on "Faith" as to how one experiences the world around us  and is rather similar to discussions about the religious experience in general and,as such,is naturally based on whatever testimony fits in with our own views.

 

I certainly knew two elderly people who gravely informed me that they were going to die on my shift and did-though ,hopefully, they were not offering a commentary on my nursing competence.

Was your use of the adverb 'gravely' deliberate?

[Tippaporn]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:39 AM, bazza73 said:

Your problem can be expressed in one word. Sentience.

It is all very well to come out with some theory about energy being immortal because it cannot be created or destroyed, although black holes, naked singularities and event horizons do play merry hell with that proposition.

Let's say energy is immortal. If it is not organized into a sentient pattern or being, then what's the point of it? Apart from the ghosts believed in by more credulous humans, can anyone truthfully claim they have encountered a sentient organism that has evolved after the process of death?

You, like many before you, have built a belief system on a central tenet - this time quantum physics. The most fundamental logical flaw is the incorrect assumption. Sentience.

Arthur C Clarke came up with a very astute observation in his science fiction classic, "Childhood's End". He said if mankind could go back with real-time vision of the lives of Abraham, Jesus,  Mohammed etc. the religions based around them would fade into nothing, because we would see what actually happened, not just what was written about them.

OK, you are not trying to convert anyone to your way of thinking - you just want intelligent debate. What you are arguing seems to me to be lifted from the intelligent design template.

 

Everything is composed of energy.  All energy is aware of itself as itself and is therefore conscious.  Consciousness creates form, not the other way around.  The source of the objective world is the subjective world.  There is nothing which is not sentient.

 

Our reality is only one of an infinite number of realities.  The belief in a singular reality is partially to blame for the inability to comprehend existence other or beyond the current, familiar reality.

 

How would it be possible to attain knowledge, or awareness, of anything outside of this realm while possessing firm convictions that 1) it cannot be known, and 2) it does not even exist?  How would it be possible to encounter the "dead" while adamantly believing that life beyond this world is an impossibility?  Answers are hidden behind beliefs.

 

I know nothing of the intelligent design argument and had to look it up.  Seems to me to be the age old argument between the belief that life has inherent intention and the belief that life is simply the result of haphazardness.  At least that is how I interpret the two arguments.  Purpose versus non-purpose.  I choose purpose.

 

The following is a "dead" person's take on that debate (bold emphasis is by the "dead" person):

 

  "The theory of evolution, for instance, is an imaginative construct, and yet through its lights some generations now have viewed their world.  It is not only that you think of yourselves differently, but you actually experience a different kind of self.  Your institutions change their aspects accordingly, so that experience fits the beliefs you have about it.  You act in certain ways. You view the entire universe in a fashion that did not exist before, so that imagination and belief intangibly structure your subjective experience and your objective circumstances.

  "In all of the other imaginative constructs, for example, whatever their merits and disadvantages, man felt himself to be a part of a plan.  The planner might be God, or nature itself, or man within nature or nature within man.  There might be many gods or one, but there was a meaning in the universe.  Even the idea of fate gave man something to act against, and roused him to action.

  "The idea of a meaningless universe, however, is in itself a highly creative imaginative act.  Animals, for example, could not imagine such an idiocy, so that the theory shows the incredible accomplishment of an obviously ordered mind and intellect that can imagine itself to be of nonorder, or chaos --- [you have] a creature who is capable of "mapping" its own brain, imagining that the brain's fantastic regulated order could emerge from a reality that itself has no meaning.  Indeed, then, the theory actually says that the ordered universe magically emerged --- and evolutionists must certainly believe in a God of Chance somewhere, or in Coincidence with a capital C, for their theories would make no sense otherwise."

 

Take the above food for thought for whatever it's worth to you.  I'm not asking for you to agree or disagree.  I'm simply offering a unique perspective.  Do with it as you like.  I think it can be agreed that this is difficult subject matter.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Everything is composed of energy.  All energy is aware of itself as itself and is therefore conscious.  Consciousness creates form, not the other way around.  The source of the objective world is the subjective world.  There is nothing which is not sentient.

 

Our reality is only one of an infinite number of realities.  The belief in a singular reality is partially to blame for the inability to comprehend existence other or beyond the current, familiar reality.

 

How would it be possible to attain knowledge, or awareness, of anything outside of this realm while possessing firm convictions that 1) it cannot be known, and 2) it does not even exist?  How would it be possible to encounter the "dead" while adamantly believing that life beyond this world is an impossibility?  Answers are hidden behind beliefs.

 

I know nothing of the intelligent design argument and had to look it up.  Seems to me to be the age old argument between the belief that life has inherent intention and the belief that life is simply the result of haphazardness.  At least that is how I interpret the two arguments.  Purpose versus non-purpose.  I choose purpose.

 

The following is a "dead" person's take on that debate (bold emphasis is by the "dead" person):

 

  "The theory of evolution, for instance, is an imaginative construct, and yet through its lights some generations now have viewed their world.  It is not only that you think of yourselves differently, but you actually experience a different kind of self.  Your institutions change their aspects accordingly, so that experience fits the beliefs you have about it.  You act in certain ways. You view the entire universe in a fashion that did not exist before, so that imagination and belief intangibly structure your subjective experience and your objective circumstances.

  "In all of the other imaginative constructs, for example, whatever their merits and disadvantages, man felt himself to be a part of a plan.  The planner might be God, or nature itself, or man within nature or nature within man.  There might be many gods or one, but there was a meaning in the universe.  Even the idea of fate gave man something to act against, and roused him to action.

  "The idea of a meaningless universe, however, is in itself a highly creative imaginative act.  Animals, for example, could not imagine such an idiocy, so that the theory shows the incredible accomplishment of an obviously ordered mind and intellect that can imagine itself to be of nonorder, or chaos --- [you have] a creature who is capable of "mapping" its own brain, imagining that the brain's fantastic regulated order could emerge from a reality that itself has no meaning.  Indeed, then, the theory actually says that the ordered universe magically emerged --- and evolutionists must certainly believe in a God of Chance somewhere, or in Coincidence with a capital C, for their theories would make no sense otherwise."

 

Take the above food for thought for whatever it's worth to you.  I'm not asking for you to agree or disagree.  I'm simply offering a unique perspective.  Do with it as you like.  I think it can be agreed that this is difficult subject matter.

My assumption/belief,(when all is said and done one can only assume) is that there is only a universal consciousness as an ultimate reality, everything else is a manifestation of this consciousness, there is no 'why', no 'me' per se, this is my logical conclusion as science has shown us that there is no such thing as 'matter' only an energy we call electricity, atoms have long since been reduced to quarks and co. and being reduced further. Humanity isn't of any great importance. It was Pythagoras who said 'consciousness sleeps in the stone ,dreams in the plant, awakes in the animal and slowly becomes aware of itself in man' I think it would be more appropriate to say man becomes aware of consciousness, consciousness is always aware of itself. I am aware that I am aware, what is it that knows of my awareness? Anyone who has done deep meditation can feel a 'presence' of something, at least that is my experience.

Everything in the universe is a manifestation of this one consciousness, in the ancient teachings of Advaita Vedanta this power of consciousness to create and to veil the truth of the illusion of 'me' is called Maya, it is the basis of Hinduism and Buddhism, the Buddha would have been well aware of Advaita Vedanta (meaning one not two ie non-dualism) whose message preceded his own by about 1500 years.

[Tippaporn]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:54 AM, seancbk said:

 

You are welcome.

 

 

Whilst energy cannot be destroyed, it also cannot carry any information (unless we manipulate it but for the purposes of this discussion you and I are talking about raw potential energy stored in our bodies).   When we die the energy cannot and does not have any part of who we were.  The energy when it makes us 'live' is merely the fuel that powers the processes that make us 'us'.   The fuel is not 'us' anymore than petrol or electricity in a car knows it is in that car.

 

We are not eternal.  Our atoms maybe but our memories and everything that makes us who we are only exists as long as energy (cellular electricity in our brains) continues to be present.

As for living in a virtual environment, everything you 'experience' right now such as taste, sight, sound, and the sensations of sex exist in your brain.  There is no reason why if your brain exists as a virtual construct in a quantum computer, that you wouldn't be able to eat, feel, see, hear etc as if still existing in your original body.   

 

A very late reply but I did say I would.

 

There are a number of obstacles which, from my point of view, would be insurmountable in the quest for eternal life via a computer.  Of all of those obstacles there is one which I would consider foremost; the transference of a consciousness into a computer.  How might that be accomplished?

 

If we ignore the question of what consciousness is for the moment the first task would be to identify, isolate, and pinpoint the location of the consciousness we would like to "install" into the computer.  Can consciousness be identified as being physical, i.e. it possesses physical properties, which it necessarily must in order to confine it to a physical apparatus?  If so, where would that consciousness be located?  Somewhere in the body?  In the brain?  Now, even if it were possible to find it's physical location and isolate it's physical properties the next task would be the actual "download."  Via USB perhaps?  Every other consideration aside the above must ultimately be sorted out.

 

If we firstly consider what consciousness is we can dispense with all other steps since an understanding of what consciousness is would cause us to abandon the notion that who we are can not only be captured inside a box but would be satisfied to exist there for all of eternity as well.  Consciousness is not physical.  Consciousness is independent of form.  Consciousness creates form.  Consciousness creates the body you find yourself in.  I should quickly add that the body is obviously not created on an egotistical level but rather at the same level at which the continual maintenance of your body is performed, i.e. your breathing, blood flow, the regulation of your heart, and all of the other inner workings of the body which are necessary for survival.

 

The self whose reflection we see in the mirror is not the entirety of the self which we are.  It is a portion.  It is that portion which deals most directly with the physical world.  Similarly, our bodies are not a single consciousness but rather a gestalt of individual consciousnesses which in a cooperative venture form the body as a whole.  That our bodies are a construct made up of many other individual consciousnesses is a fact that is hopefully obvious to most.

 

Hopefully the above general explanation makes sense to you, seancbk.  Again, this is not an easy topic.  The depth and breadth of it can truly be daunting.

[Tippaporn]

On 4/13/2018 at 10:49 AM, soalbundy said:

. . . (when all is said and done one can only assume) . . .

That's a false assumption which I would continue to dispel.  Have we not been conditioned to believe that answers to who we are, how creation works, what this reality is about, what life is about are either unavailable to us, denied us, or as a flawed species we are incapable of comprehension?  Absolutely!  I call bullsh*t.  I think you understand, soalbundy, that I'm not calling you out for bullsh*tting but rather I'm calling the notion, the idea, bullsh*t.  Reality works in very specific fashion.  It's extremely reliable and consistent (unlike humans).  It follows laws.  It does not waver.  It does not bend the laws governing reality to accommodate the beliefs of those inhabiting reality.  People can believe anything . . . anything they want . . . but their beliefs do not change the nature of reality by the minutest scintilla.  What their beliefs do do is change their personal experience of this reality.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 10:49 AM, soalbundy said:

. . . there is only a universal consciousness as an ultimate reality, everything else is a manifestation of this consciousness, there is no 'why', no 'me' per se . . . 

I did watch the video you posted.  And another as well.  In my humble opinion the man is remarkably insane.  I can follow what he's saying (and it is difficult) but, again, in my humble opinion the distortions in his message are amazing to me.

 

While I can agree with the existence of a universal consciousness, God, All That Is, or whatever unimportant label anyone prefers to give it as a source to existence (not just our world, our universe, but existence in all of it's manifestations) I am most opposed to the attempted annihilation and subordination of the individual.  To say that we are part of a whole I agree to be accurate.  To imply that the individual is of no importance in the scheme of the whole is beyond ludicrous to me.  To suggest that the individual is powerless to affect his or her own personal reality is stunning in it's distortion of the true nature of who we are and is in direct contradiction to the basis of existence.  I can't think of many other notions more damaging to our psyches and detrimental to the practical application of our lives than those two ideas.

 

I agree with the idea that a separation exists between our ego and our source to the point where we no longer recognize or have awareness to our connection to the whole.  We are a part of nature as opposed to apart of nature.  It's an old cliché but true nonetheless that we are all brothers and sisters.  We are all connected, humans and the entirety of nature, regardless of whether those connections are perceivable by us or not.  The reality exists as such independent of and despite our inability to perceive it.  It is true, and I agree with you, soalbundy, that the separation is an illusion.  An illusion which sooner or later, one way or another, will become undeniably apparent to us as individuals.  I will add quickly as well that the degree to which that separation exists in our world today has its quite important reasons.  Which would make up an entirely different discussion.

 

The individual is of prime importance.  Individuality transcends this life and any other reality.  The self which you are is inviolate and eternal.  You will always be you.  Your memories and experience will survive as well.  There will never be a point reached where, say, individuality becomes swallowed up by it's source and extinguished as it blends into some homogeneous whole.

 

BTW, I found this interesting comment amongst the comments in the 2nd video I watched.  A bit harsh, innit?  As to the truth of it I won't comment.

 

Dominic Parsons 3 years ago

If you knew this man and his life, as I did, before he embarked upon this mission of teaching nothing, you would realise that this teaching is a way of justifying your desire to give up responsibility for your family, work, friends and all ties with your previous life. Basically, take the easy way out. It's bullshit for empty people to soak up.

 

Now, the "dead" do talk.  They even write books.  Feel free to call bullsh*t if you feel so inclined.  My suggestion regarding the below excerpt, and feel free to take my suggestion or leave it, is to focus on the material rather than the source if the idea of the source is troublesome to you.  Again, I'm here to present and discuss ideas openly and do not promote anything.  That is up to each individual.  And again, the bold emphasis is the "dead" person's.

 

"The Mechanics of Experience"

 

  "Your world and everything in it exists first in the imagination, then.  You have been taught to focus all of your attention upon physical events, so that they then carry the authenticity of reality for you.  Thoughts, feelings, or beliefs appear to be secondary, subjective --- or somehow not real --- and they seem to rise in response to an already established field of physical data.

 

  "You usually think, for example, that your feelings about a given event are primary reactions to the event itself.  It seldom occurs to you that the feelings themselves might be primary, and that the particular event was somehow a response to your emotions, rather than the other way around.  The all-important matter of your focus is largely responsible for your interpretation of any given event.

 

  "For an exercise, then, imagine for a while that the subjective world of your thoughts, feelings, inner images and fantasies represent the "rockbed reality" from which individual physical events emerge.  Look at the world for a change from the inside out, so to speak.  Imagine that physical experience is somehow the materialization of your own subjective reality.  Forget what you have learned about reactions and stimuli.  Ignore for a time everything you have believed and see your thoughts as the real events.  Try to view normal physical occurrences as the concrete physical reactions in space and time to your own feelings and beliefs.  For indeed your subjective world causes your physical experience.

 

  "In titling this chapter I used the word "mechanics," because mechanisms suggest smooth technological workings.  While the world is not a machine --- its inner workings are such that no technology could ever copy them --- this involves a natural mechanics in which the inner dimensions of consciousness everywhere emerge to form a materialized, cohesive, physical existence.  Again, your interpretations of identity teach you to focus awareness in such a way that you cannot follow the strands of consciousness that connect you with all portions of nature.  In a way, the world is like a multidimensional, exotic plant growing in space and time, each thought, dream, imaginative encounter, hope or fear, growing naturally into its own bloom --- a plant of incredible variety, never for a moment the same, in which each smallest root, leaf, stem, or flower has a part to play and is connected with the whole.

 

  "Even those of you who intellectually agree that you form your own reality find it difficult to accept emotionally in certain areas.  You are, of course, literally hypnotized into believing that your feelings arise in response to events.  Your feelings, however, cause the events you perceive.  Secondarily, you do of course then react to those events.

 

  "You have been taught that your feelings must necessarily be tied to specific physical happenings.  You may be sad because a relative has died, for example, or because you have lost a job, or because you have been rebuffed by a lover, or for any number of other accepted reasons.  You are told that your feelings must be in response to events that are happening, or have have happened.  Often, of course, your feelings "happen ahead of time," because those are the initial realities from which events flow.

 

  "A relative might be ready to die, though no exterior sign has been given.  The relative's feelings might well be mixed, containing portions of relief and sadness, which you might perceive --- but the primary events are subjective.

 

  "It is somewhat of a psychological trick, in your day and age, to come to the realization that you do in fact form your experience and your world, simply because the weight of evidence seems (underlined twice) to be so loaded at the other end, because of your habits of perception.  The realization is like one that comes at one time or another to many people in the dream state, when suddenly they "awaken" while still in the dream, realizing first of all that they are dreaming, and secondarily that they are themselves creating the experienced drama.

 

  "To understand that you create your own reality requires the same kind of "awakening" from the normal awake state --- at least for many people.  Some of course have this knack more than others.  The realization itself does indeed change "the rules of the game" as far as you are concerned to a rather considerable degree.  There are reasons why I am mentioning this now rather than in earlier books.  Indeed, our books follow their own rhythms, and this one is in a way a further elaboration upon The Nature of Personal Reality.

 

  "As long as you believe that either good events or bad ones are meted out by a personified God as the reward or punishment for your actions, or on the other hand that events are largely meaningless, chaotic, subjective knots in the tangled web of an accidental Darwinian world, then you cannot consciously understand your own creativity, or play the role in the universe that you are capable of playing as individuals or as a species.  You will instead live in a world where events happen to you, in which you must do sacrifice to the gods of one kind or another, or see yourselves as victims of an uncaring nature.

 

  "While still preserving the integrity of physical events as you understand them, [each of] you must alter the focus of your attention to some extent, so that you begin to perceive the connection between your subjective reality at any given time, and those events that you perceive at any given time.  You are the initiator of those events.

 

  "This recognition does indeed involve a new performance on the part of your own consciousness, a mental and imaginative leap that gives you control and direction over achievements that you have always performed, though without your conscious awareness.

 

  "As mention before, early man had such an identification of subjective and objective realities.  As a species, however, you have developed what can almost be called a secondary nature --- a world of technology in which you also have now have your existence, and complicated social structures have emerged from it.  To develop that kind of structure necessitated a division between subjective and objective worlds.  Now, however, it is highly important that you realize your position, and accomplish the manipulation of consciousness that will allow you to take true conscious responsibility for your actions and your experience.

 

  "You can "come awake" from your normal waking state, and that is the natural next step for consciousness to follow --- one for which your biology has already equipped you.  Indeed, each person does attain that recognition now and then.  It brings triumphs and challenges as well.  In those areas of life where you are satisfied, give yourselves credit, and in those are where you are not, remind yourselves that you are involved in a learning process; you are daring enough to accept the responsibility for your actions.

 

  "Let us look more clearly, however, at the ways in which your private world causes your daily experience, and how it merges with the experience of others."

 

The author, for those interested, is Jane Roberts.  The title of the particular book I excerpted from is "The Individual and the Nature of Mass Events."  Again, for those interested and so inclined, I would recommend her essay entitled, "The Physical Universe As Idea Construction."  The title is perhaps the most succinct and accurate description of how this world is created by us as individuals.  I could recommend a great deal more but I'll leave it as is for now.

 

On second thought, for those who are fearing their "demise" via catastrophic health issues I'll recommend a most excellent book written by Norman Cousins entitled "Anatomy of an Illness."  Some here might be familiar with it as it is a dated work.  While the book itself is not meant to be instructive as to good health I give it 5 thumbs up for serving as an outstanding example of the purposeful ability inherent within all of us to create health for ourselves even in the face of, and despite the medical professions' pronouncement of death for his particular, incurable predicament.

 

FYI, "Anatomy of an Illness" is available as a PDF for free.  It was the first item that came up when I googled.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Tippaporn

[balo]

Its very simple , it's all in our brain . That's us. Close down the brain and unfortunately you're gone. Your life history , all that is you is stored in the brain.  

 

If we can find a way to transfer our brain to a new body we could live forever. That could happen in the distant future, 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by balo

[Tippaporn]

13 minutes ago, balo said:

Its very simple , it's all in our brain . That's us. Close down the brain and unfortunately you're gone. Your life history , all that is you is stored in the brain.  

Given the assumption that this is the ONE and ONLY reality.  (Which is very similar to a belief that in the vastness of the universe we are the only life forms.)  Given the assumption that consciousness resides in the brain.  Given the assumption that what you see in the mirror is all there is of you.  And if the assumptions are off the mark . . . ?

 

16 minutes ago, balo said:

If we can find a way to transfer our brain to a new body we could live forever. That could happen in the distant future, 

Too many reasons to list why that would not be possible.  Only one reason necessary, though . . . it's unnecessary.

[giddyup]

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 Too many reasons to list why that would not be possible.  Only one reason necessary, though . . . it's unnecessary.

..and a very frightening prospect. Like some kind of bizarre Frankenstein experiment, locked inside a computer for all eternity. Think I prefer the "lights out" scenario.

[balo]

41 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Too many reasons to list why that would not be possible.  Only one reason necessary, though . . . it's unnecessary.

I said the distant future , in another world you will not understand. The distant future could be 2000 years from now.

 

Where people can live as long as they wish, if you want to turn off the light its up to you , but where you have the option of transferring your brain into yourself in a younger body .  The younger body must be grown in a lab of course . 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by balo

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Given the assumption that this is the ONE and ONLY reality.  (Which is very similar to a belief that in the vastness of the universe we are the only life forms.)  Given the assumption that consciousness resides in the brain.  Given the assumption that what you see in the mirror is all there is of you.  And if the assumptions are off the mark . . . ?

 

Too many reasons to list why that would not be possible.  Only one reason necessary, though . . . it's unnecessary.

I can in many ways relate to what you are saying, perhaps we are talking past one another, I presume the following :-

 

Consciousness is non-local.

 

Consciousness has manifested everything that seems to exist (it is in so far an illusion as that things cannot exist of themselves and are not individually self sustaining, Consciousness sustains) as the Buddha said there is no-thing,

 

The finite cannot know the infinite but can know of it.

 

We exist in a field of awareness and are known by this field.

 

Our true essence is awareness/consciousness.

 

Awareness is non judgemental and observes only.

 

The story of 'me' is a finite story which ends in death.

 

One should react to events with detachment, they are not personal, events happen in the space of me, the 'me' is not responsible for the source of the event, the events should be accepted completely and observed with calmness.

 

The 'me' is unique and important to other manifestations only as long as the manifestation lasts.

 

The physical death of the 'me' frees the true essence,awareness(in meditation felt as presence) never born and never dying, from the me to return to it's source.

 

I form my own conceptual 'reality' but am constrained by my physical 'reality'

 

We are all one,the trees, the stones, the cows, people, we are all manifestations of consciousness.

 

As for the video from Tony Parsons I found him radical but could understand his message, if you can kill the ego completely (he says you can't it has to happen by itself) then there are only impersonal things that happen in your space that you observe, it isn't happening to him because the 'me' the ego no longer exists. The ego is an illusion built by us, separating us from oneness, it starts at around 3 years old before that we were free.

 

[Tippaporn]

21 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I can in many ways relate to what you are saying, perhaps we are talking past one another, I presume the following :-

Off to play Songkran so I'll give you my perspective later.

 

Cheers and enjoy Songkran,

 

Tip

[Tippaporn]

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

I can in many ways relate to what you are saying, perhaps we are talking past one another, . . .

I appreciate you mentioning that since I had the same thought while replying to you earlier.  We certainly are in agreement on certain points.  On other points we diverge.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

Consciousness is non-local.

If you mean that the source of consciousness is non-local, or not originating in this world, then I agree.  I would elaborate further to say that the focus of our individual consciousness is local.  My consciousness is presently focused on writing this reply, for instance.  The consciousness of our greater self, or the self we are a part of, has it's focus not only here but in other realities simultaneously as well.  Our individual consciousness, or ego if you prefer, is on the front lines of our physical experience, so to speak.  The ego is that portion of our greater consciousness whose primary function is to deal with our specific reality.  We can talk about the two as if they are separate yet they are in truth indivisible.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

Consciousness has manifested everything that seems to exist (it is in so far an illusion as that things cannot exist of themselves and are not individually self sustaining, Consciousness sustains) as the Buddha said there is no-thing.

Perhaps we're speaking similarly here.  I'll give you my interpretation of the above and let you decide.

 

Consciousness is in a continual mode of manifesting itself.  Everything which exists is a manifestation of consciousness.  The manifestations are not to be confused as existing independently of consciousness.  There is only consciousness.  Therefore, there is no-thing.

 

All well and good but the framing of that knowledge is too esoteric sounding.  Putting it in plain English would be to say that our entire world and everything in it is a cooperative manifestation of all of the individual consciousnesses (humans, dogs, cats, trees, fish, amoebae, rocks,  etc.) currently participating in the creation of the overall manifestation.  The physical world has been described by some, and accurately I might add, as a camouflage reality.  In other words, every physical item in this world is a representation, expressed in a physical medium, of an inner reality.

 

So, what's the point of knowing that?  Well, there are hidden implications within that knowledge.  If the physical world in which we find ourselves in is merely a three dimensional medium of expression used by (actually created by) consciousness then how many other mediums is consciousness capable of creating for the purpose of expressing itself?  It also points to the unbelievable degree of creativity which consciousness possesses, or rather inherent within consciousness.  Are we not creative (go to either of the two pinned music threads in this forum for evidence of our musical creativity as example)?  Absolutely!

 

I'm drifting from my reply a bit and I do also want to tie the information in with this thread but the above certainly suggests the existence of multiple realities and the continuity of consciousness.  In other words, life after death.  Actually, not death but a transition.  A transition of focus, to be precise.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

The finite cannot know the infinite but can know of it.

I'm not quite sure of the above but I believe it's alluding to our ability to comprehend aspects of existence?  There is comprehensive of an intellectual nature and there is pure knowing as well.  I would not be the judge as to what our capabilities of knowing are.  I'll grant that there are things that are knowable yet at the same time so unrelated to our experience here that, well, perhaps it wouldn't interest us to know.  As for intellectual comprehension there are things that are perhaps beyond our intellectual comprehension.  Nonphysical reality?  Try to intellectually grasp what that would be like.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

We exist in a field of awareness and are known by this field.

A bit too esoteric for me.  One thing I really like about listening to or reading what the "dead" have to say is that they speak in plain English and in terms we can relate to.  There's no attempt on their part to be cryptic.  If I had to guess, though, I would say that it means "God knows us."  Perhaps you can expound?

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

Our true essence is awareness/consciousness.

To me this says very little.  Can you explain further, or what it means to you?

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

Awareness is non judgmental and observes only.

I can agree with that.

 

On 4/14/2018 at 1:08 PM, soalbundy said:

The story of 'me' is a finite story which ends in death.

You would have to define who/what "me" is for the term "me" can have many interpretations.

 

I'm out of time for now so I'll leave the rest for later.

 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I appreciate you mentioning that since I had the same thought while replying to you earlier.  We certainly are in agreement on certain points.  On other points we diverge.

 

If you mean that the source of consciousness is non-local, or not originating in this world, then I agree.  I would elaborate further to say that the focus of our individual consciousness is local.  My consciousness is presently focused on writing this reply, for instance.  The consciousness of our greater self, or the self we are a part of, has it's focus not only here but in other realities simultaneously as well.  Our individual consciousness, or ego if you prefer, is on the front lines of our physical experience, so to speak.  The ego is that portion of our greater consciousness whose primary function is to deal with our specific reality.  We can talk about the two as if they are separate yet they are in truth indivisible.

 

Perhaps we're speaking similarly here.  I'll give you my interpretation of the above and let you decide.

 

Consciousness is in a continual mode of manifesting itself.  Everything which exists is a manifestation of consciousness.  The manifestations are not to be confused as existing independently of consciousness.  There is only consciousness.  Therefore, there is no-thing.

 

All well and good but the framing of that knowledge is too esoteric sounding.  Putting it in plain English would be to say that our entire world and everything in it is a cooperative manifestation of all of the individual consciousnesses (humans, dogs, cats, trees, fish, amoebae, rocks,  etc.) currently participating in the creation of the overall manifestation.  The physical world has been described by some, and accurately I might add, as a camouflage reality.  In other words, every physical item in this world is a representation, expressed in a physical medium, of an inner reality.

 

So, what's the point of knowing that?  Well, there are hidden implications within that knowledge.  If the physical world in which we find ourselves in is merely a three dimensional medium of expression used by (actually created by) consciousness then how many other mediums is consciousness capable of creating for the purpose of expressing itself?  It also points to the unbelievable degree of creativity which consciousness possesses, or rather inherent within consciousness.  Are we not creative (go to either of the two pinned music threads in this forum for evidence of our musical creativity as example)?  Absolutely!

 

I'm drifting from my reply a bit and I do also want to tie the information in with this thread but the above certainly suggests the existence of multiple realities and the continuity of consciousness.  In other words, life after death.  Actually, not death but a transition.  A transition of focus, to be precise.

 

I'm not quite sure of the above but I believe it's alluding to our ability to comprehend aspects of existence?  There is comprehensive of an intellectual nature and there is pure knowing as well.  I would not be the judge as to what our capabilities of knowing are.  I'll grant that there are things that are knowable yet at the same time so unrelated to our experience here that, well, perhaps it wouldn't interest us to know.  As for intellectual comprehension there are things that are perhaps beyond our intellectual comprehension.  Nonphysical reality?  Try to intellectually grasp what that would be like.

 

A bit too esoteric for me.  One thing I really like about listening to or reading what the "dead" have to say is that they speak in plain English and in terms we can relate to.  There's no attempt on their part to be cryptic.  If I had to guess, though, I would say that it means "God knows us."  Perhaps you can expound?

 

To me this says very little.  Can you explain further, or what it means to you?

 

I can agree with that.

 

You would have to define who/what "me" is for the term "me" can have many interpretations.

 

I'm out of time for now so I'll leave the rest for later.

 

Consciousness is a strange thing,it can't be grasped and examined. What is consciousness even. To be aware? the mind can do that quite well. I heard the mind described once thus:- "If the brain is the orchestra then the mind is the music it plays" the conductor could be the ego although a well trained orchestra could play without him.There is however a higher consciousness that is aware that I am aware, that is hearing the music so to speak.It is this higher consciousness which hasn't been separated from universal consciousness to reside in me, it is still one with it but has been infused in 'me' and this infusion has become confused with the illusion of 'me', upon the death of the 'me' it realizes its full potential again. It is this consciousness that is our true essence, it is the real me, the whole, everything, which was once confused (maya) by the illusory egoic 'me' which it leaves behind. As Ramana Maharshi said while pointing with one hand to the sky and another to the world "I am that"

So there are two me's, the one, finite, mind induced through conceptualization appearing at around 3 years old and the second me, never born,never dying, outside of time which is everything and nothing at the same time. This second me cannot be known by 'me' because it is infinite and outside of time but I can know of it and people like Maharshi can even have a glimpse of it but we cannot understand it. There is no 'why' but instead there is an 'it is as it is'

 

No I don't believe in a cooperation of individual consciousnesses but rather there being only one consciousness, a universal consciousness which everything shares but appears separate, just as there is only one space in a house but it is divided up into rooms by walls. I have trouble with there being a personal consciousness, the seat of consciousness itself has never been found. The command center or brain of a tree has never been found and yet they react to their environment, if the leaves are attacked by an insect they can through the leaves produce a gas that can be picked up by members of their own species (own language) and so warned they can begin to produce bitter substances in their own leaves. Through their roots they communicate with electrical discharges to other trees, this has been studied and yet where the control or decision making department is, is unknown.

 

In an adult body there are fifty quadrillion coordinated biochemical events taking place each and every second, it was assumed up till 2013 that apart from neuropeptides etc the heavy lifting was done by preprogrammed instructions in our DNA. After 2013 when the human genome was sequenced it was found that this preprogramming didn't exist. Where are the commands coming from to keep you alive? 

 

To be the source of everything,consciousness/awareness must be a field, an energy field if you like, and since everything is created and held in form it knows of everything in that field.

 

Although I don't believe in predetermination (strangely enough Maharshi did, even scratching his bottom he believed was predetermined) I believe in universal laws of causality that are beyond our control, so that someone falling off a buffalo in India could through a long chain of events cause me to lose a job in London a year later. the only protection is to align oneself with these universal laws, with consciousness and accept what happens with detachment and calmness, it is as it is and can be no other way.

 

Have you heard the tape recordings of Leslie Flint, the greatest direct medium ever ?

 

Enough for today, hope you enjoy Sonkran, I prefer not to, last time I did I got a serious eye infection from dirty water.Causality at work again.

[Hummin]

Stay healthy as long as possible, and go out with a big bang! No slowmo suicide here with food and drinks and everything and everyone thinks is the good life. My wellness is to move and feel free, and when the time comes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, cya

[kannot]

Im gonna  live forever!! ....................so i dont give it a second thought.

[kannot]

On 4/5/2018 at 12:31 PM, Odysseus123 said:

It is very difficult to really interact in a topic like this.

 

In a way it just becomes a series of irrefutable statements based on "Faith" as to how one experiences the world around us  and is rather similar to discussions about the religious experience in general and,as such,is naturally based on whatever testimony fits in with our own views.

 

I certainly knew two elderly people who gravely informed me that they were going to die on my shift and did-though ,hopefully, they were not offering a commentary on my nursing competence.

elderly and in a  hospital???? hmmm yeah its kind of gives away whats  likely to happen though, so that deck is already stacked against them.

[kannot]

On 3/23/2018 at 12:55 PM, Odysseus123 said:

Altho' if he had both of his arms ripped off he would be kinda "semi-detached" wouldn't he?

and completely h,armless

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, kannot said:

Im gonna  live forever!! ....................so i dont give it a second thought.

in a way you are right, it just won't be the 'you' that you are now, it will be stranger than you think, ( I don't profess to 'know' this but it is my personal certainty ) All will be well. Take a lesson from the animals, when they die a non violent death they submit, there is no ego that fears its own demise. They do not go raging into that dark night, they submit with grace and silence, as someone once said 'silence is the language of God, all words and speech are a poor translation.

[kannot]

On 3/19/2018 at 9:12 PM, Once Bitten said:

I'm trying my best to stay healthy and by coincidence I have just lately started to fast once a week and my trusty torture machine ( tread mill ) gets daily use. 

My physical aspect is not currently worrying  me , its my ongoing mental state that's causing me stress , that little voice inside my head which seems so intent on reminding me that I'm on a loosing age battle . Every where I'm constantly reminded that some day I will get a knock at my door from a black clocked skeleton with a scythe in his bony hand , I start to watch old films and its populated by dead people or a good friend has just passed away or some one who I once admired now looks like an old man .

 

Reading the forums health and medicine section only starts to depress me ,  my monthly health insurance premiums are like a thorn in my side ,  every where I go be it to the Mall shopping or taking the car in for a service or getting my regular blood test done its the same story . I seem to be the oldest person around 

When I get on a songthaew baht bus I all ways offer my seat to an older person , now people are standing up and offering me their seat , the list is endless like when I use to look in my bathroom shaving mirror , their staring right back at me would be my old dad , now in the same shaving mirror I only see my grandfather. 

Its becoming plainly evident that the sand in the upturned hour glass is starting to run out. 

Its a good job I'm not a drinking man 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonah Tenner]

On 16.4.2018 at 7:35 PM, kannot said:

Im gonna  live forever!! ...................

Or die trying,