Dessert Shop Business advice needed

[yengec]

Hi guys,

 

I have been living in Pattaya more than one year and Im from Turkey. I love sweet desserts all kinds of.. When i come to pattaya i cant find a good  quality of desert. Cakes, waffles, ice cream, everything tastes really bad and they are cheap.What i wanted to do is, to sell a waffle sandwich as you can see in the pictures attached. In pattaya I only see belgian waffle which is square and big hole shaped. Even it is not sweet because they use chocolate syrup, not a nutella hazelnut or real chocolate. The cost for a single waffle is around 40-45 baht. Im planning to sell for 100-120 baht depands on the location. For this job, i will not work or prepare anything, I am planning to setup this for my girlfriend. Therefore, I will not have any work permit or business opening cost like 2m baht registered capital etc.

 

My first question is do you think this is a profitable ratio for food business? because I never did it before and have no idea about ratios.

 

The second question is where do you think the best location for this product? The small wooden boxes of outside part of big shopping malls? The food park of a mall? a small cube like currency exchange shops on beach road or second road? 

 

 

[CeeGee]

I think for the general Thai market 100/120  baht each is going to be far too expensive(think more like 20/40 baht) so you are restricting yourself to certain areas. ie where farangs are, therefore rents will be higher.

The second problem is, if you are in anyway successful, within two or three months four  or more copy Thai businesses will open up on your doorstep.They will be cheaper,use inferior products but to the average punter both Thai or farang they will go to the most convenient one

[dfdgfdfdgs]

I wondered how you could have a desert shop and was picturing camel rides, like elephant rides.

 

It's dessert.  Desert is lots of sand.  Sorry for the useless reply.

[Rc2702]

Turkish style pizza would be nice. There Is 1 road stall kebab vendor where we are. They sell kebab and sell out every single day in max 4 hours. Small size 20 baht medium 30 and large 50.  Great to see the guy there everyday without ever running out of his Ingredients.

[Jangot]

10 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

I wondered how you could have a desert shop and was picturing camel rides, like elephant rides.

 

It's dessert.  Desert is lots of sand.  Sorry for the useless reply.

Yes it was a useless reply.

English is not the OP's mother language - and it is a minor spelling error.  By contex the meaning is very clear.

 

[EcigAmateur]

It's a good idea ! Only people who know nothing and have never owned a business in Thailand couldn't understand this.

 

100 thb is acceptable if it really look like your pictures. 100 thb is free for many Thai as it is free for us.

 

I would not open a shop anywhere, I would invest in a food truck, and look for locations until I find the perfect one and bribe the cops enough to be sure to have it for myself forever.

 

A food truck means freedom, if any problem where you are, you can move, and nobody can try to get more money from you because you have no choice.

Also, as no Thai can be trusted long term, and as it will of course happen that sooner or later she will want to go to stay with her family (for example if someone is sick, etc...), she can still work because she can bring the truck ! And even if she cannot sell expensive waffle at her village, she will still able to sell somtam...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

Maybe get some ideas from how successful the doughnut stand is on Sukhumvit at the traffic light junction of Chaiyphruek and Chaiyphruek 2 

[KittenKong]

You say that the cost for a single waffle is 40-45B. Is that in Turkey or here? Many ingredients are expensive here, even the most basic ones. Imported ones are very expensive.

I know that a common rule of thumb for catering in Europe used to be that ingredients should represent 25-30% of your selling price, with overheads accounting for a similar amount. Here I suspect that the ratio is different.

 

Who will buy your waffles? They look like something that Thais might buy as generally they are not put off by bright colours and gooey mashed-up food. Are they who you will be selling to? I suggest that you cook a few up and offer them for free somewhere to see what the reaction is.

Could the average Thai afford to spend 120B (that's a third of a day's wage for some) on a waffle? Maybe not. But I do see well-off Thais spending more than that on fancy ice-creams and cakes in upmarket stalls inside Central. I suspect that the rental costs for such stalls are high. And would well-off Thais want to buy from a street stall, and possibly get chocolate sauce all over themselves?

 

If you are intending to sell to Europeans or people from Turkey then clearly location will be vital as they simply dont go to many places.

 

You should probably factor in extra costs like licences and bribes.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Turkish style pizza would be nice.

 

There is (or was) a guy doing Turkish pizzas here:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/Mjxh2Vska8P2

[chickenslegs]

4 hours ago, Jangot said:

Yes it was a useless reply.

English is not the OP's mother language - and it is a minor spelling error.  By contex the meaning is very clear.

 

I disagree.

If the guy is going into business selling desserts, it is best that his mistake is pointed out here - before he spends money on marketing his "deserts".

[CHdiver]

5 hours ago, Jangot said:

Yes it was a useless reply.

English is not the OP's mother language - and it is a minor spelling error.  By contex the meaning is very clear.

 

No it's not useless. Imagin he opens the shop and put's a sign with Desert Shop up, he would never make any money. And don't count on the Thai sign maker to correct him.

[yengec]

Thanks for all the replies until now. About the Thai people spending, most of them really spend like a crazy. My GF, her friends, any girls who works at malls like Central, Royal garden etc, they spend big portion of their salary on foods but again I dont rely on their taste about this waffle. 

 

About the cost, the plain cooked waffle cost is 10baht(flouregg milk etc everything included), hazelnut 13 baht, fruits 10 baht, coconut and some colorful powders 5 baht, in total its 35-40baht (excluding rent and the electricity). For ex few days ago I tried to make waffle and used a compound chocolate, also it would cost me 7 baht per waffle but I dont like the taste I shifted to a quality hazelnut. Now it tastes delicious.

 

I am still checking many locations and ım on the dilemma of outside small shops and inside mall shops. For ex in this picture it was currency shop on beach road close to walking street. Few days ago I see it was free and I make my GF to call the owner. He asked for 3sqm cube shop 1m THB keymoney/lease and 30k THB rent. This is an insane number and my business is certainly not enough for this rental fee. 

 

 

The risk of to rent a shop at beach road or any outside area are;

- The key money discourages and stress us in the case of the business fails

- In day time when the weather is hot, people may not want to eat hot waffles on the street by walking

- On this road only some farangs may like to buy this waffle. Since mostly Indians, Thais and other tourist who walks by this shop may not even try at this price.

- Even the business goes well and we start to make money, the other Thais will copy it and its inevitable to see many waffle shop around me. 

- Also the shop owner may force to increase the rental fee and some bribe issues might be happened too

- The worst part is to see a Thais on the bike is selling waffle for half price in front of my shop

 

The advantages of a shop inside food court of a mall;

 

- Its busy for 12 hours and even Thai people tend to spend this much money on a waffle. So I get a higher range of customers.

- Customers can eat by sitting, not only take and eat on foot

- It ıs more isolated area and I have less threats since the mall management usually doesnt allow the same industry shops to be opened in the same area(assuming the food court)

- In the malls I asked the rental conditions, they are not keened on key money or some absurd moneys. They ask for reasonable conditions.

 

 

 

[moonseeker]

Your dessert looks delicious. Unless you have plenty of money to set up a proper business in prime location and good basics in running a business abroad already, my advise is to stay away. Check out the rental prices & side-costs in malls etc. and do a basic business plan, after informing yourself about the real cost of doing business in Thailand correctly. The cost of your waffles & syrups is just a small part of it. Pattaya is full of foreigners who have dreams of businesses for their g.f. who often can't count to 10. Best of luck in whatever venture you are trying.  MS>

[BsBs]

Any update ?

 

[BsBs]

On 11/26/2017 at 8:13 PM, Rimmer said:

Maybe get some ideas from how successful the doughnut stand is on Sukhumvit at the traffic light junction of Chaiyphruek and Chaiyphruek 2 

 

I do not see them any successful.

 

 

[BsBs]

On 11/27/2017 at 12:36 AM, CHdiver said:

No it's not useless. Imagin he opens the shop and put's a sign with Desert Shop up, he would never make any money. And don't count on the Thai sign maker to correct him.

 

Of course he would make money, do you think that any Thai knows how to spell DESSERT ?

 

 

[BsBs]

On 11/27/2017 at 1:45 AM, yengec said:

Thanks for all the replies until now. About the Thai people spending, most of them really spend like a crazy. My GF, her friends, any girls who works at malls like Central, Royal garden etc, they spend big portion of their salary on foods but again I dont rely on their taste about this waffle. 

 

About the cost, the plain cooked waffle cost is 10baht(flouregg milk etc everything included), hazelnut 13 baht, fruits 10 baht, coconut and some colorful powders 5 baht, in total its 35-40baht (excluding rent and the electricity). For ex few days ago I tried to make waffle and used a compound chocolate, also it would cost me 7 baht per waffle but I dont like the taste I shifted to a quality hazelnut. Now it tastes delicious.

 

I am still checking many locations and ım on the dilemma of outside small shops and inside mall shops. For ex in this picture it was currency shop on beach road close to walking street. Few days ago I see it was free and I make my GF to call the owner. He asked for 3sqm cube shop 1m THB keymoney/lease and 30k THB rent. This is an insane number and my business is certainly not enough for this rental fee. 

 

 

The risk of to rent a shop at beach road or any outside area are;

- The key money discourages and stress us in the case of the business fails

- In day time when the weather is hot, people may not want to eat hot waffles on the street by walking

- On this road only some farangs may like to buy this waffle. Since mostly Indians, Thais and other tourist who walks by this shop may not even try at this price.

- Even the business goes well and we start to make money, the other Thais will copy it and its inevitable to see many waffle shop around me. 

- Also the shop owner may force to increase the rental fee and some bribe issues might be happened too

- The worst part is to see a Thais on the bike is selling waffle for half price in front of my shop

 

The advantages of a shop inside food court of a mall;

 

- Its busy for 12 hours and even Thai people tend to spend this much money on a waffle. So I get a higher range of customers.

- Customers can eat by sitting, not only take and eat on foot

- It ıs more isolated area and I have less threats since the mall management usually doesnt allow the same industry shops to be opened in the same area(assuming the food court)

- In the malls I asked the rental conditions, they are not keened on key money or some absurd moneys. They ask for reasonable conditions.

 

 

 

 

I think that you will succeed ! You have already been thinking more than any Thai opening a business.

 

But still, I think that it should be you who sell in a street stall/cart, because of course as you said, it will happen if you open a shop with direct access to the street. So why paying for a useless rent ?

 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

1 hour ago, BsBs said:

 

I do not see them any successful.

 

 

Profit is a function of volume, all their outlets have high volume with low overheads.

 

Multiple low cost outlets in: Pattaya. Sattahip. Borwin 331. Rayong. Nakorn Sawan. Sawan Som Dek (garden)

All selling one uniform product with a low materiel cost content.

Maybe its a franchise if so expect more of the same, still early days but I would say that is pretty successful for a humble doughnut.  

[yengec]

2 hours ago, BsBs said:

 

I think that you will succeed ! You have already been thinking more than any Thai opening a business.

 

But still, I think that it should be you who sell in a street stall/cart, because of course as you said, it will happen if you open a shop with direct access to the street. So why paying for a useless rent ?

 

Thanks for your comments. I have studies business administration in the college but never interested since I made my career on the finance. The thing is im bored in finance and I want try my chance in food business as a side job. I know this is a small start up but thats all i can risk  for a first shot. I can make a good feasibility report on any job and this one attracts me because I believe I can get a good market share by this type of waffle. Currently, we decided to start it in a mall's food court. We negotiate and check all the requirements for this job. When they all settled up, we will start to operate and I will let you know from here :)

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 8:38 PM, KittenKong said:

You say that the cost for a single waffle is 40-45B. Is that in Turkey or here? Many ingredients are expensive here, even the most basic ones. Imported ones are very expensive.

 

Who will buy your waffles? They look like something that Thais might buy as generally they are not put off by bright colours and gooey mashed-up food. Are they who you will be selling to? I suggest that you cook a few up and offer them for free somewhere to see what the reaction is.

 

You should probably factor in extra costs like licences and bribes.

Doubt Thais would buy them on the street, so tourists would be your market.

Crepes/ waffles/ pancakes etc sell on the street near Chiang Mai night market for about 50 baht or less ( forget exact price ). That is your competition on the streets.

 

From the photos you want to sell mall style waffles, so big jump in rent.

 

If you are the sole source of finance and your GF is going to be the worker, I'd say you are on a loser before even starting.

If she has nothing to lose, there is nothing to say she won't quit when it gets tough or boring.

 

You are treading the same path that hundreds if not thousands of foreigners have already trod and not many, if any, made it work.

 

 

[JaiLai]

On 26/11/2017 at 8:13 PM, Rimmer said:

Maybe get some ideas from how successful the doughnut stand is on Sukhumvit at the traffic light junction of Chaiyphruek and Chaiyphruek 2 

i can get two of these in my mouth in one go.....

[BsBs]

5 hours ago, yengec said:

 

Thanks for your comments. I have studies business administration in the college but never interested since I made my career on the finance. The thing is im bored in finance and I want try my chance in food business as a side job. I know this is a small start up but thats all i can risk  for a first shot. I can make a good feasibility report on any job and this one attracts me because I believe I can get a good market share by this type of waffle. Currently, we decided to start it in a mall's food court. We negotiate and check all the requirements for this job. When they all settled up, we will start to operate and I will let you know from here :)

 

 

How much for rent in a food court ?

 

Why not buying a food truck for 500k baht and selling at different places ?

 

 

 

[BsBs]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doubt Thais would buy them on the street, so tourists would be your market.

Crepes/ waffles/ pancakes etc sell on the street near Chiang Mai night market for about 50 baht or less ( forget exact price ). That is your competition on the streets.

 

From the photos you want to sell mall style waffles, so big jump in rent.

 

If you are the sole source of finance and your GF is going to be the worker, I'd say you are on a loser before even starting.

If she has nothing to lose, there is nothing to say she won't quit when it gets tough or boring.

 

You are treading the same path that hundreds if not thousands of foreigners have already trod and not many, if any, made it work.

 

 

 

In the same sentence you say that Thai would not buy in the street but then you say that they sell waffle IN THE STREET at Chiangmai... Maybe only tourists buy them, right ?

It seems that the OP has more chance to succeed any business than you...

 

And as you do not know his GF, you should not say that she won't succeed. It depends on his personality and he doesn't seem to be a buffalo unlike most people who open a business for their GF. No Thai girl that I helped to start business has ever been thinking that they didn't care because it was not their money. And the main reason is that they knew how I would be angry and what would be their punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yengec]

I understand the warnings about to setup a business in this country and the risks of thai girls. Im 29 years old and my gf is graduated from highschool and she still learning look like remote education online at Bangkok. She is working in a shop at central festival for more than 1 year. I mean, she is not a type of girl who is lazy and getting bored too quick. Also we will hire 1 more thai for this job. In a mall there is 12 hours operating hours and one person is definitely not enough. In the food park of the malls, some of them deducts %30 of the gross selling price. Some of them just ask fixed rental price such as 12-16000 bat per month. Actually, the mall rental prices seems much lower than the street shop rental fees. At least for this size of job, I need a small shop or stand, the bigger ones is unnecessary for now. In my opinion, the success is mostly affected by wrong strategy. If your product is being marketed on wrong location and your shop is over priced rented etc. of course it will be bankrupted. 

[simoh1490]

I think what Thailand needs more than anything else in this world is yet another outlet selling deserts cakes and pastries, goodness knows the population is massively underweight and there are so very few of these establishments already in existence! 

[BsBs]

24 minutes ago, yengec said:

I understand the warnings about to setup a business in this country and the risks of thai girls. Im 29 years old and my gf is graduated from highschool and she still learning look like remote education online at Bangkok. She is working in a shop at central festival for more than 1 year. I mean, she is not a type of girl who is lazy and getting bored too quick. Also we will hire 1 more thai for this job. In a mall there is 12 hours operating hours and one person is definitely not enough. In the food park of the malls, some of them deducts %30 of the gross selling price. Some of them just ask fixed rental price such as 12-16000 bat per month. Actually, the mall rental prices seems much lower than the street shop rental fees. At least for this size of job, I need a small shop or stand, the bigger ones is unnecessary for now. In my opinion, the success is mostly affected by wrong strategy. If your product is being marketed on wrong location and your shop is over priced rented etc. of course it will be bankrupted. 

 

I see something wrong here. If a Thai cannot work 12 hours at a shop, I would not help her.

12 hours at the shop means many hours playing with her mobile or watching TV, she should be able to do it. Paying another staff is not acceptable when starting this kind of business, in my opinion, and 12 hours job would be a condition for any Thai working for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

14 hours ago, BsBs said:

No Thai girl that I helped to start business has ever been thinking that they didn't care because it was not their money.

The philanthropist speaks!

 

14 hours ago, BsBs said:

And the main reason is that they knew how I would be angry and what would be their punishment.

Spare us the details!

[simoh1490]

I get the idea the OP has much to learn about Thai people, their culture and the potential market for his "unique" product, I wish him well regardless.

[NanLaew]

13 hours ago, yengec said:

Some of them just ask fixed rental price such as 12-16000 bat per month. Actually, the mall rental prices seems much lower than the street shop rental fees. At least for this size of job, I need a small shop or stand, the bigger ones is unnecessary for now. In my opinion, the success is mostly affected by wrong strategy. If your product is being marketed on wrong location and your shop is over priced rented etc. of course it will be bankrupted. 

The mall rental market can be as mercenary as the 'talat' rental market so check the terms and conditions. Rents are continually assessed on your volume of trade and if you get a steady footfall and paying customers, your rental will probably increase or they start charging for the extra chairs, lighting or whatever you think is needed to serve the increasing custom. In a similar manner, if your sales volumes start to taper off, your stall may be relocated away from a 'premium' location where you won't make the rent, will be forced to close and make way for another short-term money spinner. It's rather mercenary and only the landlords are guaranteed any sort of sustainable income. When the landlord gets pressured, the tenants bear the brunt.

[Peterw42]

OP, I see your product as strictly a "dine in" product. Sit at a table and eat it with cutlery, its not really portable as in buy and take home or buy and take to the beach, eat it walking around the markets etc. So its limited to a dedicated premises or maybe a food court. 

There is a Swensen's in ever shopping mall or farang area in Thailand, and they sell waffles with fruit, icecream, chocolate etc. 

Besides many places that already sell variations of pancakes, waffles etc, There is a very similar Thai product that already exists, shibuya or honey toast, and its everywhere.

 

I think you also need to be aware that Thais do event or destination dinning, its not so much about the product, its about the social, photo op, they buy the big dessert amongst 3-4 people, take  photos etc, they dont actually eat much of it.

 

I am a Big fan of the Bingsu dessert restaurants, and I watch the Thai people order one between 4 and take photos .