Converting a tourist visa to a Non-Immigrant-O to a Dependent Visa?

[el jefe]

My wife and I both are from USA and are over 50 years old. We live in Chiang Mai. My wife is getting an Extension Based on Retirement. I am here on a METV with a last entry date of 30 March 2018 and a current permission to stay until 28 January 2018. Can I do the following?

 

Can I convert to a Non-Immigrant-O by filing Form TM 86? I believe I can do that at any time and the requirements are:

Passport and copies of stamps, etc

Photos

Copy of lease agreement

2,000 baht fee

Is anything else required?

 

If I file the TM 86 I should get a 90 day Non-Immigrant-O visa. In the last 45 days of that visa I would like to apply for an Extension of Stay Based on Dependency (I'm sure it's called something different). Is there a link to that form? Do I need to have money in a Thai bank? Does it need to be seasoned? Is there any reason I cannot do this?

 

Thanks in advance. Hopefully they don't change the rules in the next 45-60 days.

[tropo]

My wife piggy-backs off my retirement extension as a dependant. We had to get her non-O visa OUT of the country at a consulate. She got hers in Vientiane. I don't think you can get that conversion inside Thailand. That was back in 2010, so you never know - things may have changed.

[merijn]

The conversion from TR60 to a Non-O cannot be done inside Thailand for a dependant.

he has to get the initial Non-O visa from the Thai Consulate/embassy outside Thailand.

[brewsterbudgen]

My Laotian wife entered on a SE Tourist visa (issued in London) and converted it to a O visa at Immigration in Chaengwattana. Then I added her to my Extension of Stay. She had to wait for the conversion to be approved.

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[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

My Laotian wife entered on a SE Tourist visa (issued in London) and converted it to a O visa at Immigration in Chaengwattana. Then I added her to my Extension of Stay. She had to wait for the conversion to be approved.

That was because you are on an extension that qualifies your wife to apply for the non immigrant visa at immigration.

For a person on retirement it is not possible for their spouse to apply for one. They have to apply for the non-o visa at an embassy or consulate.

[el jefe]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That was because you are on an extension that qualifies your wife to apply for the non immigrant visa at immigration.

For a person on retirement it is not possible for their spouse to apply for one. They have to apply for the non-o visa at an embassy or consulate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand. Two different visa agencies in CM told me they could do the paperwork to convert my METV to a 90-day SE Non-Immigrant O but both wanted 15,000 baht to do that. I was hoping to find a less expensive way to do this.

While I realize it's possible that my passport might leave the country, neither said I had to leave the country. But both agencies said they couldn't help me if I didn't have a TM30 and I would have thought that for a fee that would have had an easier work-around.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, el jefe said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand. Two different visa agencies in CM told me they could do the paperwork to convert my METV to a 90-day SE Non-Immigrant O but both wanted 15,000 baht to do that. I was hoping to find a less expensive way to do this.

Perhaps the agency can arrange for immigration to circumvent their rules.

You can look here and you will find that retirement is not shown as a basis for a family member to apply for a non immigrant visa. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa  

You could travel to Vientiane and get a non-o visa for a lot less than 15,000 baht. You can fly from CM to Udon Thani and then take a van from the airport to the bridge in Nong Khai then cross over to Vientiane.

In Vientiane you would only need your marriage certificate, a copy of your wife's passport photo page and extension of stay stamp.

[NancyL]

El Jefe, do you want to apply to be the dependent on your wife's retirement visa extension?  

 

The price you were quoted by the two visa agencies is the price to convert a METV to an O visa with the view that you'd be getting your own retirement visa extension.  This indeed can be done in Chiang Mai and you can DIY, if you have a TM30 on file and proof of finances, ie, an Income Letter from the U.S. Consulate or 800,000 baht in the bank.

 

The "catch" is that CM Immigration tries to make the DIY processes cumbersome, requiring you to visit Imm. at Promenada to make an appointment to apply for the conversion, only to be told appointments are full for 2 - 3 weeks out and by the time you have your appointment you won't have enough time remaining on your permission to stay.  Or they'll come up with some other "gotcha".  They want you to use one of those visa agencies that quoted 15,000 baht; the agencies receive expedited "appointments".  

 

In general, I think it a good idea for a married couple to each have their own visa extension and not have one of them dependent on the other's visa status.  If something happens to the primary visa holder, the other's visa status ends and has seven days to leave the country, apply for a new visa and start the process again.  I don't know about you, but if my spouse passed away, I'd have other things to do within seven days than go to Laos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[el jefe]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Perhaps the agency can arrange for immigration to circumvent their rules.

You can look here and you will find that retirement is not shown as a basis for a family member to apply for a non immigrant visa. https://www.immigration.go.th/content/change_visa  

You could travel to Vientiane and get a non-o visa for a lot less than 15,000 baht. You can fly from CM to Udon Thani and then take a van from the airport to the bridge in Nong Khai then cross over to Vientiane.

In Vientiane you would only need your marriage certificate, a copy of your wife's passport photo page and extension of stay stamp.

Thanks, Joe. I've done that trip from CM -> Udon Thani -> Vientiane several times voluntarily. Equally important as not having to pay exorbitant fees to circumvent the rules is eliminating the hassles of Thai (specifically Chiang Mai) Immigration. But I have no desire to spend 2-4 days to accomplish this when, for me, there are other alternatives.

 

I'll make one attempt to get this done myself, as NancyL says is possible. If that doesn't work, I'll go to the much more simple Plan B. Until a year ago I was able to get one-year ME Non-Imm-O visas in New York. I always got 15 months out of them. I leave and re-enter Thailand 4-6 times every year. Combined with an occasional Single/Double/Triple entry tourist visa, I spent an average of less than $150 a year on visas and for 12 years I've avoided ever having to go to Immigration. For $240 a year I can get a 6-month METV and a SETV. I'll just have to put a little more thought into the timing of my travels. I was willing to pay a little extra to get some additional flexibility but this will cost substantially more and require many more visits to CM Immigration in the long run.

 

If nothing else, you eliminated some routes and narrowed down my choices. Thanks again for your answers and suggestions and for giving me potential solutions that I never would have thought of.

[el jefe]

8 hours ago, NancyL said:

El Jefe, do you want to apply to be the dependent on your wife's retirement visa extension?  

 

The price you were quoted by the two visa agencies is the price to convert a METV to an O visa with the view that you'd be getting your own retirement visa extension.  This indeed can be done in Chiang Mai and you can DIY, if you have a TM30 on file and proof of finances, ie, an Income Letter from the U.S. Consulate or 800,000 baht in the bank.

 

The "catch" is that CM Immigration tries to make the DIY processes cumbersome, requiring you to visit Imm. at Promenada to make an appointment to apply for the conversion, only to be told appointments are full for 2 - 3 weeks out and by the time you have your appointment you won't have enough time remaining on your permission to stay.  Or they'll come up with some other "gotcha".  They want you to use one of those visa agencies that quoted 15,000 baht; the agencies receive expedited "appointments".  

 

In general, I think it a good idea for a married couple to each have their own visa extension and not have one of them dependent on the other's visa status.  If something happens to the primary visa holder, the other's visa status ends and has seven days to leave the country, apply for a new visa and start the process again.  I don't know about you, but if my spouse passed away, I'd have other things to do within seven days than go to Laos.

Thanks, Nancy. That makes sense. It sounds just like the Certificate of Residency process. It's "free" but you have to pay 500 baht for the "bureaucracy".

 

Yes, the end goal was to apply (and be accepted) as a dependent of my wife. I can live with the risk and ramifications of her untimely death but thanks for the warning. I was trying to avoid putting another 800k Baht in a Thai bank or the fee for having the US Consulate swear to my lie. I'd also have to make that trip to the Consulate, pay the fee, and lie every year. That's more bureaucracy than I want to deal with.

 

Margaret is going to Immigration this week to deal with her paperwork. I'll go with her and see if i can get my conversion to a Non-Imm-O visa for the stated 2,000 baht fee. If not, I'll go with the less-hassle Plan B as in my reply to UbonJoe above. Thanks again for your advice. It's always appreciated.

[NancyL]

11 hours ago, el jefe said:

Thanks, Nancy. That makes sense. It sounds just like the Certificate of Residency process. It's "free" but you have to pay 500 baht for the "bureaucracy".

 

Yes, the end goal was to apply (and be accepted) as a dependent of my wife. I can live with the risk and ramifications of her untimely death but thanks for the warning. I was trying to avoid putting another 800k Baht in a Thai bank or the fee for having the US Consulate swear to my lie. I'd also have to make that trip to the Consulate, pay the fee, and lie every year. That's more bureaucracy than I want to deal with.

 

Margaret is going to Immigration this week to deal with her paperwork. I'll go with her and see if i can get my conversion to a Non-Imm-O visa for the stated 2,000 baht fee. If not, I'll go with the less-hassle Plan B as in my reply to UbonJoe above. Thanks again for your advice. It's always appreciated.

El Jefe, the process of obtaining an Income Letter from the U.S. Consulate is very easy.  Just go online, make an appointment -- usually you can obtain one within a week, and show up a little before the appointed time with your passport and money.  But, it's not a good idea to swear a false oath to a Federal official.

 

You can use the "combination" method of justifying the financial requirement if your income is less than required.  For example, if your income is only half what's needed, then you can put 400,000 baht into a Thai baht account and submit both a bank letter and a Consulate income letter. 

 

One interesting feature that I'll test in a month or so, is about the wording of the Income Letter.  It states something to the effect that "my income is XXXX per month".  This year, I withdrew $30,000 from an IRA, more than meeting the income requirement, but it was as a lump sum, not as a regular monthly income stream.  I plan divide $30,000 by 12 and claim that as monthly income when I complete the income letter as a month or so and if asked for proof by Immigration, I can show the distribution documents from the IRA fund.  Previously, I'd used the 800,000 baht in the bank method, but we've drawn down that amount this year, knowing I was starting to receive pension income.

 

 

[el jefe]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

El Jefe, the process of obtaining an Income Letter from the U.S. Consulate is very easy.  Just go online, make an appointment -- usually you can obtain one within a week, and show up a little before the appointed time with your passport and money.  But, it's not a good idea to swear a false oath to a Federal official.

 

You can use the "combination" method of justifying the financial requirement if your income is less than required.  For example, if your income is only half what's needed, then you can put 400,000 baht into a Thai baht account and submit both a bank letter and a Consulate income letter. 

 

One interesting feature that I'll test in a month or so, is about the wording of the Income Letter.  It states something to the effect that "my income is XXXX per month".  This year, I withdrew $30,000 from an IRA, more than meeting the income requirement, but it was as a lump sum, not as a regular monthly income stream.  I plan divide $30,000 by 12 and claim that as monthly income when I complete the income letter as a month or so and if asked for proof by Immigration, I can show the distribution documents from the IRA fund.  Previously, I'd used the 800,000 baht in the bank method, but we've drawn down that amount this year, knowing I was starting to receive pension income.

 

Thanks again, Nancy.

I'm aware of how the Affidavit from the Consulate works. afaik, there is still no requirement to prove what you state your pension is. If you had to prove it, there would be no opportunity to lie.

I have no pension and I'm many years away from collecting Social Security and would prefer not to withdraw from my IRA and needlessly pay taxes long before necessary.