Condo Q: Foreign Ownership and Inheritance

[rnalswls2]

Hi, 

 

I already mentioned this question on my other topic, but I'd like to start a new topic about it cause I'm still not quite clear.

 

My question is simple:

I am a foreigner, my spouse is a foreigner.

If I own a condominium - what will happen if I die, or my spouse dies? 

 

Some of you said as long as I make a Thai will there won't be a problem, but the more I research, the more I worry.  I'd like to know many of you guys opinions and experiences. 

 

https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

 

"Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance)"

"Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. "

 

 

[trogers]

I have mentioned that the advice given by that website is not correct.

 

I inherited my late father's condo in July last year, and we both are foreigners. A condo bought with a Foreign Exchange Transaction (FET) under the allowed 49% quota for foreign ownership is freely transferable to a foreign heir (s).

 

A transfer tax of 2% of assessed value is payable by the heir(s).

[Delight]

3 hours ago, trogers said:

I have mentioned that the advice given by that website is not correct.

 

I inherited my late father's condo in July last year, and we both are foreigners. A condo bought with a Foreign Exchange Transaction (FET) under the allowed 49% quota for foreign ownership is freely transferable to a foreign heir (s).

 

A transfer tax of 2% of assessed value is payable by the heir(s).

 Every webiste that I look at when wishing to learn about condos and inheritance says something different to your stated experience

 

Samuiforsale for example states :

 

Condominium Act: succession and inheritance

Foreign ownership of a condo in Thailand is under condominium laws an individual right of the foreigner who qualified under condominium laws for ownership. Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he is eligible for ownership pursuant to section 19 of the Condominium Act. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner.

 

Can you explain this confusion?

Edited December 4, 2017 by Delight
Spelling

[trogers]

17 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Every webiste that I look at when wishing to learn about condos and inheritance says something different to your stated experience

 

Samuiforsale for example states :

 

Condominium Act: succession and inheritance

Foreign ownership of a condo in Thailand is under condominium laws an individual right of the foreigner who qualified under condominium laws for ownership. Once foreign ownership is obtained it is not freely transferable between foreigners (not even by inheritance) and the Thailand Land Registry only allows registration of ownership to another foreigner if he is eligible for ownership pursuant to section 19 of the Condominium Act. Basically the right of foreign freehold ownership ends at death of the foreigner who qualified for ownership under the Condominium Act. Foreign freehold ownership of a condominium is not automatically transferable by inheritance to another foreigner.

 

Can you explain this confusion?

What is written in Section 19 of the Condo Act?

[Delight]

2 minutes ago, trogers said:

What is written in Section 19 of the Condo Act?

 Which sub section ?

[trogers]

4 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Which sub section ?

19/5 (1)

 

This applies to those condo projects that were allowed foreign ownership to exceed 49% after the Asian Financial Crisis

[trogers]

That's why I stipulate that the deceased was a foreigner who used an FET to buy a condo under the 49% quota.

 

His foreigner heirs would not contravene the Thai Condo Act by inheriting the deceased's interest.

[trogers]

When I did the transfer at the Land Office using the Court Order, I also had to submit the debt clearance and the foreign ownership declaration issued by the Juristic Manager.

[Delight]

18 minutes ago, trogers said:

19/5 (1)

 

This applies to those condo projects that were allowed foreign ownership to exceed 49% after the Asian Financial Crisis

 

 Section 19 5/1

 

All this states is that if a foreigner inherits a apartment in a building where  this acquisition exceeds the 49% foreigner allowance –then it has to be disposed of

 

It states zero in relation to acquiring a condo by inheritance and not having to submit a freshly minted FET

[trogers]

37 minutes ago, Delight said:

 

 Section 19 5/1

 

 

All this states is that if a foreigner inherits a apartment in a building where  this acquisition exceeds the 49% foreigner allowance –then it has to be disposed of

 

 

It states zero in relation to acquiring a condo by inheritance and not having to submit a freshly minted FET

How can you exceed the 49% quota when it is just a switch of foreign names on the same title deed?

 

Unless the said property was already in a state of exceeding the 49% foreign quota before the deceased died.

 

There is no mention that a statutory heir or heir by inheritance of a will has to carry a new FET. Section 19 1/5 and 19/2 states the requirement to be fulfilled by those foreigners who want to buy.

 

Section 19 5/1 does not allow heirs to transfer titles if the foreign quota is exceeded. No mention of new FET.

 

My lawyer clarified with the Land Office HQ that no new FET was needed before he brought me to the Phrakanong Land Office to effect the will for title transfer to me.

Edited December 4, 2017 by trogers

[Delight]

8 minutes ago, trogers said:

How can you exceed the 49% quota when it is just a switch of foreign names on the same title deed?

 

Unless the said property was already in a state of exceeding the 49% foreign quota before the deceased died.

 I  agree -however that is what 19/5 -1 states

 

So we can also agree that 19/5 -1 does NOT allow a foreigner to inherit from a foreigner without a new FET

 

If it is not 19/5-1 then which part of the condo act allows this transaction to take placei.e foreigner to foreigner  condo transfer without a new FET?

 

[trogers]

13 minutes ago, Delight said:

 I  agree -however that is what 19/5 -1 states

 

So we can also agree that 19/5 -1 does NOT allow a foreigner to inherit from a foreigner without a new FET

 

If it is not 19/5-1 then which part of the condo act allows this transaction to take placei.e foreigner to foreigner  condo transfer without a new FET?

 

When the alien or juristic person stipulated in Section 19 have acquired apartments by legacy in the capacity of statutory heir or inheritor under will or by other means as the case may be, and when include the apartment already held by such aliens or juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 exceeding the ratio prescribed in the first paragraph of Section 19/2 or not being in accordance with the second paragraph or the third paragraph of Section 19/2;

 

Where is there even a mention of FET?

 

Note the part 

 

"and when include the apartment already held by such aliens or juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 exceeding the ratio prescribed in the first paragraph of Section 19/2 or not being in accordance with the second paragraph or the third paragraph of Section 19/2;"

 

Meaning the property of the deceased is already in a state of exceeding the foreign quota.

Edited December 4, 2017 by trogers

[trogers]

From the reading, I understand the restrictions apply to

 

1. Foreign ownership in projects where the the foreign quota is exceeded

 

2.  Foreign heir to a Thai-owned condo which has no FET and which the foreign quota is already full.

[Delight]

44 minutes ago, trogers said:

When the alien or juristic person stipulated in Section 19 have acquired apartments by legacy in the capacity of statutory heir or inheritor under will or by other means as the case may be, and when include the apartment already held by such aliens or juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 exceeding the ratio prescribed in the first paragraph of Section 19/2 or not being in accordance with the second paragraph or the third paragraph of Section 19/2;

 

Where is there even a mention of FET?

 

Note the part 

 

"and when include the apartment already held by such aliens or juristic persons stipulated in Section 19 exceeding the ratio prescribed in the first paragraph of Section 19/2 or not being in accordance with the second paragraph or the third paragraph of Section 19/2;"

 

Meaning the property of the deceased is already in a state of exceeding the foreign quota.

 This is all true

 

However it has nothing to do with the  with the notion of acquiring a condo via inheritance and circumventing the need for a new FET

 

To the OP

 

A new FET will be required , as stated by Samuiforsale

 

Your post suggests that  your condo is in joint names.

If so I am confused

 

As I read it joint ownership is only  allowed in the foreign allocation where one of the owners is Thai. That  way the total Thai allocation increases

 

[trogers]

3 minutes ago, Delight said:

 This is all true

 

However it has nothing to do with the  with the notion of acquiring a condo via inheritance and circumventing the need for a new FET

 

To the OP

 

A new FET will be required , as stated by Samuiforsale

 

Your post suggests that  your condo is in joint names.

If so I am confused

 

As I read it joint ownership is only  allowed in the foreign allocation where one of the owners is Thai. That  way the total Thai allocation increases

 

How do you circumvent the need of a FET through inheritance?

 

You mean by faking a death?

 

Two or more foreigners can jointly own a totally foreign-owned condo under the 49% quota. That's is the intent of the OP.

[Delight]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

How do you circumvent the need of a FET through inheritance?

 

You mean by faking a death?

 

Two or more foreigners can jointly own a totally foreign-owned condo under the 49% quota. That's is the intent of the OP.

Lets be clear

The law as stated by Samuiforsale with respect to the inheritance by a foreigner of foreign owned apartment, is correct

That is a new monies will have to be brought into Thailand in order that a FET can be created to allow the transfer  of the apartment to the new owner  .

 

Your attempt to disprove the Samuiforsale statements on this topic has failed .

With respect to joint ownership by foreigners –I cannot see any reference to this - anywhere in the condo act

Perhaps you could reference the appropriate section

[trogers]

1 minute ago, Delight said:

Lets be clear

The law as stated by Samuiforsale with respect to the inheritance by a foreigner of foreign owned apartment, is correct

That is a new monies will have to be brought into Thailand in order that a FET can be created to allow the transfer  of the apartment to the new owner  .

 

 

Your attempt to disprove the Samuiforsale statements on this topic has failed .

With respect to joint ownership by foreigners –I cannot see any reference to this - anywhere in the condo act

Perhaps you could reference the appropriate section

Samuiforsale is not the law, and their interpretation of the Condo Act is erroneous.

 

I disproved it simply by inheriting my late dad's condo without needing to furnish a new FET.

 

The ball is now on their side of the court.

[Delight]

23 minutes ago, trogers said:

Samuiforsale is not the law, and their interpretation of the Condo Act is erroneous.

 

I disproved it simply by inheriting my late dad's condo without needing to furnish a new FET.

 

The ball is now on their side of the court.

 Samuiforsale have simply quoted the law and simplified the wording.

They are not distorting the law

It is all there- to be  seen - in the many English language translations .

I am not doubting the arrangement that occurred with respect to your personal circumstances

 

However neither the condo act or you can explain why!

For certain it contravenes the act.

[trogers]

1 minute ago, Delight said:

 Samuiforsale have simply quoted the law and simplified the wording.

They are not distorting the law

It is all there- to be  seen - in the many English language translations .

I am not doubting the arrangement that occurred with respect to your personal circumstances

 

 

However neither the condo act or you can explain why!

For certain it contravenes the act.

Like I have said, the Condo Act did not state that foreign heirs to a deceased foreigner need to furnish new FETs to have their names transferred into the title deed, that the deceased had already furnished.

 

The rest are conjectures of this party or that.

[huawei]

My experience is exactly the same as Trogers. 2009. Bangkok.

[newnative]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2560 at 1:48 PM, trogers said:

I have mentioned that the advice given by that website is not correct.

 

I inherited my late father's condo in July last year, and we both are foreigners. A condo bought with a Foreign Exchange Transaction (FET) under the allowed 49% quota for foreign ownership is freely transferable to a foreign heir (s).

 

A transfer tax of 2% of assessed value is payable by the heir(s).

This is correct information.  My partner is a Thai lawyer and he agrees with this. 

[huawei]

Sometimes on thaivisa, good and correct information is provided this is one of those threads.

 

some may dispute it, but that's ok, because it get others to just re- enforce the correct information and that's a good thing.

[Delight]

27 minutes ago, newnative said:

This is correct information.  My partner is a Thai lawyer and he agrees with this. 

  Can I ask that  you ask your Thai Lawyer to quote the relevant part of the condo act that supports his statement?

 

i.e ideally it must refer to inheritance and specifically state that a FET is not required.

 

If you can do this then  you will change my life!

 

I wish to bequeth my condo to my son. The cost of obtaining a legally generated FET is simply too much  .

Maybe you can change all that.

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Delight said:

  Can I ask that  you ask your Thai Lawyer to quote the relevant part of the condo act that supports his statement?

 

i.e ideally it must refer to inheritance and specifically state that a FET is not required.

 

If you can do this then  you will change my life!

 

I wish to bequeth my condo to my son. The cost of obtaining a legally generated FET is simply too much  .

Maybe you can change all that.

       If you want your son to inherit your condo, draw up a Will in English and Thai with that information.  It's good to have the Will in English and Thai because legal matters are handled in Thai.   On your passing, he will inherit the condo per your wishes.  Another FET is not needed; he is inheriting the condo, not buying it. The condo will be transferred into his name and a transfer tax is paid, as outlined by Trogers.

       Now, here is some new information.  If you make your son your Executor in your Will, he can add his name to the Chanote as the Executor when you pass away for a small fee.  If he does not wish to keep the condo he can then sell it as the Executor and he only has to pay the seller's share of the closing costs once on the condo sale. 

[Delight]

19 minutes ago, newnative said:

       If you want your son to inherit your condo, draw up a Will in English and Thai with that information.  It's good to have the Will in English and Thai because legal matters are handled in Thai.   On your passing, he will inherit the condo per your wishes.  Another FET is not needed; he is inheriting the condo, not buying it. The condo will be transferred into his name and a transfer tax is paid, as outlined by Trogers.

       Now, here is some new information.  If you make your son your Executor in your Will, he can add his name to the Chanote as the Executor when you pass away for a small fee.  If he does not wish to keep the condo he can then sell it as the Executor and he only has to pay the seller's share of the closing costs once on the condo sale. 

 Thanks !

 

However you have failed to answer my Q

 

 I shall remind you.

'

'  Can I ask that  you ask your Thai Lawyer to quote the relevant part of the condo act that supports his statement?

 

i.e ideally it must refer to inheritance and specifically state that a FET is not required.

 

An answer would be appreciated

 

 

[newnative]

16 minutes ago, Delight said:

 Thanks !

 

However you have failed to answer my Q

 

 I shall remind you.

'

'  Can I ask that  you ask your Thai Lawyer to quote the relevant part of the condo act that supports his statement?

 

i.e ideally it must refer to inheritance and specifically state that a FET is not required.

 

An answer would be appreciated

 

 

       I think I've bothered my partner enough--and for free.   You can take or leave the information provided.  If you doubt the information your best course would be to hire your own lawyer to explain the legal procedures.

[Delight]

24 minutes ago, newnative said:

       I think I've bothered my partner enough--and for free.   You can take or leave the information provided.  If you doubt the information your best course would be to hire your own lawyer to explain the legal procedures.

  For certain I doubt you.

Suspect others reading this post will also.

 

[trogers]

8 hours ago, Delight said:

  For certain I doubt you.

Suspect others reading this post will also.

 

What you request is in the realm of Inheritance law, and not the Condo Act.

 

The Condo Act only mentioned requirements on foreigners buying a condo and that the 49% foreign quota not be exceeded. It also restricts transfer of title to a foreign heir should the property is not covered by an FET and/or the foreign quota would be exceeded should such a title transfer occur.

 

The FET my late father furnished when buying his condo is still being kept by the Land office and would only be returned to me when I sell.

 

 

[DoktorC]

9 hours ago, Delight said:

  For certain I doubt you.

Suspect others reading this post will also.

 

No doubt about it newnative gave you excellent advice. Go get a lawyer. Free legal advice can be very misleading.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, Delight said:

  For certain I doubt you.

Suspect others reading this post will also.

 

       You posed a legal question on Thai Visa hoping to get free legal assistance.  Trogers responded and two of us agreed that his information was correct; that, no, you do not need a new FET with an inherited condo.  So far nobody has said otherwise.  My free legal advice involves asking my Thai lawyer partner a quick legal question such as yours with a quick yes or no answer--it doesn't extend to detailed explanations citing Thai legal statutes.  You obviously doubt the answer you have been given so, as I said before, it's time to hire your own lawyer to answer your question and walk you through everything in detail.