Thai media continues with "Cut the Carnage" campaign as death toll mounts on Thai roads

[Juan B Tong]

Am I just missing all the public service announcements on the TV?

 

Back in the mid 20th century there seemed to be heaps of them on the radio and on the old b&w telly when we could finally afford one.

 

Yet to see any here.  

 

Only the odd safe drive campaign (such as this one) and a few posters.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Juan B Tong

[Jonmarleesco]

1 minute ago, Juan B Tong said:

Am I just missing all the public service announcements on the TV?

 

Back in the mid 19th century there seemed to be heaps of them on the radio and on the old b&w telly when we could finally afford one.

 

Yet to see any here.  

 

Only the odd safe drive campaign (such as this one) and a few posters.

You had radio and TV in the nineteenth century? Not only technologically more advanced then, than I'd realised, but in possession of the secret of eternity.

[Sid Celery]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

And i thought that Thais chalk the dead on the roads as bad luck,

bad karma and the Thai version of Ce la Ve,  No?....

as long as the Mai Pen Rai attitude is prevalent, and the thinking

that this is something that happenad to others and not me, the

carnage will continue....

 

Thais will not change unless and until:

 

1. the education system changes.

2. the police start seeing the police as a law enforcement agency and not a supplemental income agency.

3. Thais stop equating ignoring the laws with 'face'/status, which the current sakdina derivative culture positively encourages. Thais are generally not stellar intellects but they see what the rich pooyay get away with.

 

Until then, forget it. Eventually an evolutionary change will occur in but it'll be a while. My opinion.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sid Celery

[johnny49r]

Is anyone paying attention to the worsening traffic carnage? 

The solution is pretty simple - train or hire police that engage in law enforcement. Whatta concept huh?

[Tilacme]

I have a radical idea.  Produce a 100 page booklet detailing rules and regulations for road use.  Call it something like, I don't know say "The Highway Code". And this is where it gets really crazy .... make all road users pass a comprehensive written and practical test before allowing them to drive on the road.

[slippery snake]

3 minutes ago, Sid Celery said:

 

Thais will not change unless and until:

 

1. the education system changes.

2. the police start seeing the police as a law enforcement agency and not a supplemental income agency.

 

Until then, forget it. Eventually an evolutionary change will occur in but it'll be a while.

Come on police do a great job,,  I see them chaining and padlocking bikes parked at the red and white curb,  all the time in Patong..    but never stopping speeding. !!.   

I had my bike locked a week or so ago, went to the police box and was told to pay 500 B fine at police station and they would unlock my bike..  I said I only have 400B with me,, he said  "ok give me that and I'll unlock your bike "   

No ticket, No reciept,  now where did that money go ??????????  

[Sinistralian]

Until the mind set changes ( "live for the day" "life is cheap" "me me me" )  - unlikely to be any impact on this carnage. Agree that helmet use for ALL riding the bike would be a start!!

[Media1]

5 hours ago, rkidlad said:

More like “cut the crap”

 

leave the slogans for your boards and super boards who go for their prawn lunches. What’s needed is something tangible. Enforcing the law could work wonders. 

Yes

[Chris Lawrence]

Its not just the deaths, but the injuries. Some are left incapacitated for life or even some years. Then the mental trauma not only the victim but those that care. 

 

What happened to the General's passion to stop people riding in the back of pick-ups? 

[metisdead]

Posts using ALL CAPS have been removed, please turn off your Caps Lock when posting. 

 

Posts containing derogatory comments toward Thais have been removed:

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[spidermike007]

No matter how much they talk about this horrific problem, everything remains the same. Why? The police and the government. Neither game a damn. One iota. As I have said previously:

 

And why are these drivers speeding in the first place? The primary reason is the toy police force. Nobody, and I mean nobody takes these guys seriously. There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis.

 

When I was growing up, we took drivers education classes. They showed us these horrendous films, of semi trucks crashing into cars, and literally obliterating them, and everything inside. Also, they showed very graphic images of head on collisions. Even as a young kid, it left a lasting impression, and I realized driving was no joking matter. Especially when you have your friends, or loved ones in the car with you. I am constantly astonished at the kinds of chances people take here, with their entire family in the car with them. Why? What is the logic? What is the reason? Why take those risks? Often, when someone cuts onto the highway in front of me, as I am doing 100kpm or more on the highway, I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me for quite some distance. Which means, had they paused, and waited 2 or 3 seconds, there would have been zero risk to them, their family, or me and my family. What can one even say? All of this matters even more when driving a motorbike, where there is no protection. 

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law. 

[Tengtai]

It's not the speed that kills, it's the stop. Best way to decrease the level of accidents is to teach thai people to drive. Have never in my life anywhere in the world seen so many useless drivers as I see in Thailand.

[Get Real]

Cut The Carnage. What a great campaign. When are they going to start?

Edited December 5, 2017 by Get Real

[whaleboneman]

I have just spent 5 days driving through Issan. I saw children without helmets driving as fast as 110 kph on the far right side of the highway.  I saw young teens rat racing at night on the left but also at 110 kph. I saw children that appeared to be no more than 10 or 11 years old driving motorcycles.

I had numerous near misses as people in a hurry pass on a double yellow line flashing their lights and sometimes actually forcing oncoming traffic off the highway. Several times, trucks were passing on a four lane hwy using the oncoming passing lane that I was in. Their two lanes weren't enough for them so they crossed the one meter hatched yellow divider to use our side of the road.

Then there's the odd nut job that pulls out onto a highway at 5 kph when the traffic in the slow lane is doing 90-100 kph and the fast lane traffic is at 100-120 kph.

I saw many safe drivers, however, the number of insane drivers out there is unbelievable. 

In 5 days I went through so many road blocks I couldn't keep track. Never stopped once. Never saw any kind of enforcement out on the highways. It's a free for all out there. And the people with the super safe Mercedes and BMW's know that they aren't going to die in an accident or even get in trouble if they kill any peasants so they carry on at ridiculous speeds.

There really is little hope for this country ever losing the #1 spot.

 

[spidermike007]

Their "video accident of the day" showed a minor but all too common accident. Three bikes pile into each other as the the leading vehicle brakes suddenly as they race through dense traffic.

 

 

The man on the third bike apologizes: "Sorry, khrap....you braked so sharply I couldn't stop".

 

Again another example of the utter and complete refusal to take responsibility for a problem of his own making. If he was allowing an additional 10 meters, as a sane person would have done, he would have had plenty of time to brake. Instead, it is the fault of the guy in front of him, for stopping short and avoiding an accident. What can one say. They will say anything to avoid losing face. Anything. Face is no doubt, the greatest form of weakness, a human can engage in. Many will say it is societal, cultural, etc. No matter. It is the absolute and complete lack of the ability to introspect, and look within for the source of any problem, shortcoming, conflict, or issue. It is the polar opposite of spirituality, and therefore an absolute scourge on Buddha, and all of the precepts he taught. By practicing face, you are denying your spiritual heritage. You are refusing to man up. To take responsibility for your actions. If a man or a woman cannot, and will not take responsibility for their actions, the problems they create, the mistakes they make, and the issues they involve themselves in, what are they? Are they still an adult? Are they a complete individual, if they allow themselves to be limited by such infinitely small social convention? 

 

Who cares what people think of you? For those of us with high self esteem, it just does not matter. Sure, close friends and family. But strangers on the street? Who gives a rat's butt about this? It means nothing what they think, nor what they say about you. They count for nothing. They are just people, and people you do not know, nor will ever see again. Face is rife with self doubt, and by subscribing to this weakness, and man or woman is made a far lesser person. For those of us with high self esteem, we know who we are. What others think, what society thinks, what a guy or gal thinks, means less than zero.

Real men or women, simply own a situation, and take responsibility for their errors or mistakes. Small men, social deviants, or emotional adolescents deflect, obfuscate, attempt to confuse, and do everything in their power to deny that they made a mistake, or that they are responsible in any way, or on any level. They make up narratives about fake news, or alternative facts. Anything to avoid looking within, for the source of the problem. Anything.

 

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

No matter how much they talk about this horrific problem, everything remains the same. Why? The police and the government. Neither game a damn. One iota. As I have said previously:

 

And why are these drivers speeding in the first place? The primary reason is the toy police force. Nobody, and I mean nobody takes these guys seriously. There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis.

 

When I was growing up, we took drivers education classes. They showed us these horrendous films, of semi trucks crashing into cars, and literally obliterating them, and everything inside. Also, they showed very graphic images of head on collisions. Even as a young kid, it left a lasting impression, and I realized driving was no joking matter. Especially when you have your friends, or loved ones in the car with you. I am constantly astonished at the kinds of chances people take here, with their entire family in the car with them. Why? What is the logic? What is the reason? Why take those risks? Often, when someone cuts onto the highway in front of me, as I am doing 100kpm or more on the highway, I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me for quite some distance. Which means, had they paused, and waited 2 or 3 seconds, there would have been zero risk to them, their family, or me and my family. What can one even say? All of this matters even more when driving a motorbike, where there is no protection. 

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law. 

"everything remains the same"

 

I think the traffic in Thailand gets worse every year.

[hansbak]

As long as I see policeman on big bikes wearing no helmet, the whole police is a kind of joke

Sent from my HUAWEI RIO-L02 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Media1]

3 hours ago, grego49 said:

Untill the police at least start to inforce helmet laws nothing will change.had a chat a while ago with a traffic cop and surgested helmet fines should be doubled his said oh thais can  not afford it, i said its simple just wear a helmet he didnt get my point.

Where was he schooled

[Russell17au]

Lets cut the carnage (bull***t)

Well here is the first of the 777 road safety measures that I have seen

Drivers of buses who are suspected of having consumed alcohol will be prohibited from driving in 61 accident prone areas nationwide during the New Year period.

This only applies to the 61 accident prone areas and all other areas the drivers can still operate as normal.

It should be mandatory that all bus drivers have a zero alcohol reading at all times whilst driving the bus.

This is bloody ridiculous

[Airbagwill]

The Thai media has no idea.

 

you can indulge yourself with anecdotes of "bad driving" and convince yourself what a superior driver you are but none of this will ever change a thing.  Just because you can drive a car, does not qualify you as an expert.

 

All western countries have had similar death rates to Thailand in the past and have gradually and to varying degrees of success worked their way out.

 

the solution is actually quite simple and comprehensive.

 

Until Thailand adopts these methods it is not possible to achieve significant change.

 

The holistic approach is the only one that will work

 

Thailand must adopt the 5 Es - and there are plenty of orgs in Thailand who are advocating this - anything else is just doomed to fail

 

For nearly 2 decades Thailand with its “Road Safety Action Plan” has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ...............

 

1.     Education

2.     Enforcement

3.     Engineering

4.     Emergency

5.     Evaluation

 

1.    Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users - UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?).

The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police.

 

2.    Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and briber which impedes this no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too. 

It is also very hard to enforce laws on roads that aren’t properly laid out.

 

 

3.     Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety.

 

Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

·      Anti-locking brakes

·      Traction control

·      Air-bags

·      Side impact bars

·      AVCSS

·      More reliable engine, tyres and components

·      Vehicle dynamics in general (vary from UK and Thailand)

Of course roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

 

Road Engineering   -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junction, road surface, camber, drainage etc. 

·      The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

·      Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

·      The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision.

·      Better infrastructure and engineering

·      Better road surfaces

·      Better signage

·      More forgiving

·      Traffic calming

·      Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

 

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads ALLOW it.... this is an engineering problem (and cost), not so much a driver problem.

 

 

4.    Emergency

 

 - What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!!

 

5.    Evaluation

 

 - How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc.  Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Khun Paul]

Triple the fines, impound the cars and bikes, it would not taker long for the rest to start to obey.

Oh make the insurers insure the driver and the vehicle not just the vehicle which will also include the mandatory ins , which will mean NO LICENCE equals  NO INSURANCE.

[Russell17au]

7 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The Thai media has no idea.

 

you can indulge yourself with anecdotes of "bad driving" and convince yourself what a superior driver you are but none of this will ever change a thing.  Just because you can drive a car, does not qualify you as an expert.

 

All western countries have had similar death rates to Thailand in the past and have gradually and to varying degrees of success worked their way out.

 

the solution is actually quite simple and comprehensive.

 

Until Thailand adopts these methods it is not possible to achieve significant change.

 

The holistic approach is the only one that will work

 

Thailand must adopt the 5 Es - and there are plenty of orgs in Thailand who are advocating this - anything else is just doomed to fail

 

For nearly 2 decades Thailand with its “Road Safety Action Plan” has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ...............

 

1.     Education

2.     Enforcement

3.     Engineering

4.     Emergency

5.     Evaluation

 

1.    Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users - UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?).

The first people to educate in Thailand would be the police.

 

2.    Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and briber which impedes this no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too.

 

3.     Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety.

 

Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

·      Anti-locking brakes

·      Traction control

·      Air-bags

·      Side impact bars

·      AVCSS

·      More reliable engine, tyres and components

·      Vehicle dynamics in general (vary from UK and Thailand)

Of course roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

 

Road Engineering   -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junction, road surface, camber, drainage etc. 

·      The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

·      Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

·      The use of barriers (e.g. Armco), the removal of trees from the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision.

·      Better infrastructure and engineering

·      Better road surfaces

·      Better signage

·      More forgiving

·      Traffic calming

·      Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

 

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads ALLOW it.... this is an engineering problem (and cost), not so much a driver problem.

 

 

4.    Emergency

 

 - What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!!

 

5.    Evaluation

 

 - How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc.  Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do.

 

 

There is 1 letter that you failed to mention and that is the most important letter

It is the letter A

A=Attention

Getting the attention of someone who will get off their ass and start something, then we can go onto the 5 - E's but A must come first

[Ossy]

1 minute ago, Khun Paul said:

Triple the fines, impound the cars and bikes, it would not taker long for the rest to start to obey.

Oh make the insurers insure the driver and the vehicle not just the vehicle which will also include the mandatory ins , which will mean NO LICENCE equals  NO INSURANCE.

Yes, but like I've said in my post, KP, all these punitive actions require enforcing by cops, out amongst the traffic. The baddies aren't going to come to the cops, meaning that they have to be proactive to catch the law-breakers . . . oh-oh, Thailand doesn't do proactive . . . completely forgot, there.

[Classic Ray]

The problem with enforcement here is that the police don’t want to be bothered with processing offenders, detaining them, preparing case papers and giving evidence in court. All this  interrupts their income generating activities whether that is taxing or running their own local businesses, running cash-only motorcycle road blocks, or providing escort services for ex-prime ministers. 

 

The only way to get them to do their job is to start again, ban all their business activity, pay them a decent salary and have an active Independent Commission Against Corruption as worked in Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia.

 

Until then, don’t expect any change in corruption, carnage, or enforcement.

[Oziex1]

One of the more remarkable things I witness in Thailand is how many foreigners immediately drop years of conditioning from their own countries when in Thailand, seat belts not fastened, helmets no, drink drive yes! 

 

All because they believe they will get away with it.

[Russell17au]

14 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Don't we have a direct contradiction, here? One moment the 5-E's are up and the next, they're down. It's like I say, Russell . . . we just need cops in cars, making our driving lives that little bit more tentative, but a darn sight safer for sure.

But the problem is that we must get some idiots attention to take some notice and responsibility to get off their ass and start doing something before the other things can start, but no body is paying attention

[Sid Celery]

1 hour ago, Sinistralian said:

Until the mind set changes ( "live for the day" "life is cheap" "me me me" )  - unlikely to be any impact on this carnage. Agree that helmet use for ALL riding the bike would be a start!!

 

As I understand it, the wearing of helmets already the law. The only thing that will resolve the problem of people ignoring the law with impunity, is for the police to start enforcing the law on a less arbitrary, less 'personal judgment' basis, with officers failing to do that being dismissed.

 

No matter who they paid for the job and how much.

 

Alas, not the Thai way, and we see how successful the Thai way is.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sid Celery

[metisdead]

A post containing profanity has been removed.  Another post in which the quoted content had been altered was removed as well. 

[Sid Celery]

2 hours ago, johnny49r said:

Is anyone paying attention to the worsening traffic carnage? 

The solution is pretty simple - train or hire police that engage in law enforcement. Whatta concept huh?

 

Sadly, that whole concept will either go over the heads of Thais, or they will assume that since foreigners are backward because they aren't Thai, it would be better to rush down to the local wat and have a nice pray instead. That ought to work.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sid Celery

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, Sid Celery said:

 

Sadly, that whole concept will either go over the heads of Thais, or they will assume that since foreigners are backward because they aren't Thai, it would be better to rush down to the local wat and have a nice pray. That ought to work.

And grab a couple more amulets while you're there.