U.S. congressman Trent Franks resigns

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Not just the workplace. The Girl Scouts of America have warned families not to have their girls hug family relatives at Christmas for fear the girl will be worried later in life that she will have to put out if a man buys her dinner. I kid you not.  I have seen the future and in it, policy replaces good judgement. And there are no shortage of apparatchiks to disseminate a steady stream of more and more questionable policy.

Not quite. The Girl Scouts of America warned families not to force their girls to hug relatives.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

Strange?

I was merely pointing out what seems to be ignored in the current environment...sexual and/or intimate relationships have long been a part of the workplace environment and are socially accepted as can be seen by their presence in every single Television Drama Series.

 

Those relationships typically start out by a male making the first move and that is often by a dialogue or friendly physical contact. That has been the way our society has defined the mating/dating ritual and that initial step has historically been left to the male.

 

Whatwe are seeing now is a complete re-write of the Rules.

 

If that is what men & women want then so be it but its an injustice to now interpret those once acceptable male actions from that era and hold those same actions against the male today under this new rule book.

 

Take it back another generation and John Wayne, Gary Cooper and every other leading male star who made a first kiss of the leading lady could now be found guilty of sexual assault.

 

 

Yes, what characterized TV soap operas is their realism and their objective and sociologically confirmed takes on various human relationships. Really?

[ClutchClark]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes, what characterized TV soap operas is their realism and their objective and sociologically confirmed takes on various human relationships. Really?

 

You know you are a very unpleasant person who does not appear to want to participate in a good natured manner.

 

Sarcasm is a communication technique of those with nothing of value to contribute.

 

For these reasons I am going to choose to ignore you.

[tonray]

7 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Not just the workplace. The Girl Scouts of America have warned families not to have their girls hug family relatives at Christmas for fear the girl will be worried later in life that she will have to put out if a man buys her dinner. I kid you not.  I have seen the future and in it, policy replaces good judgement. And there are no shortage of apparatchiks to disseminate a steady stream of more and more questionable policy.

Maybe at holiday family dinners everyone should brown bag their own meal to avoid any expectation of affection ?

[ClutchClark]

13 minutes ago, tonray said:

Maybe at holiday family dinners everyone should brown bag their own meal to avoid any expectation of affection ?

 

Nothing like teaching the grand daughters that their loving grandfather has dirty intentions when he hopes for a hug.

 

Physical contact of any sort is seen as sexualized in this modern word. 

 

Are parents not capable of encouraging their children to display affection towards loved ones and simultaneously teach the distinction that families share with and provide for each other in a manner different from a non-relative?

 

I help my grandkids and great-grandkids from infancy to their college costs. My deceased wife and I have always done our best to help our family members be well positioned for the future.

 

We expect a show of affection in our family from each other. We hug each other and convey our Love for each other. We stress the importance of family. 

 

There is nothing sexual about it and it is amazing to me that the leadership of the Girl Scouts now want to connect these values with something they are not.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by ClutchClark

[Credo]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Interesting that his actions fall under the definition of “sexual misconduct allegations” since there appears to be no assertion that he made any sexual advance. 

 

He asked two staff if they would be surrogate mothers so that Franks and his loving wife could raise a child in a loving family environment.

 

Ah, let's see, it sounds a little dodgy to ask someone who works for you to have your baby.   It definitely deals with some pretty private areas.

[ClutchClark]

21 minutes ago, Credo said:

Ah, let's see, it sounds a little dodgy to ask someone who works for you to have your baby.   It definitely deals with some pretty private areas.

 

Agree 100% but it depends on context.

 

A husband and his wife are in a loving relationship but childless. The wife and/or husband are under years of stress following fertility centers  and grasping At straws...at some solution. 

 

They obviously worry about the ability to trust a surrogate. After all, responding to an online ad from a complete stranger is quite a gamble. Does the applicant do drugs, drink, smoke, have mental stability? Probably not many professional women are running ads to be surogates.

 

The husband thinks how can I mitigate these risks? Hey, my friend and co-worker is someone of excellent character and healthy habits and my wife and I know and trust her.

 

And so he makes a poor decision to ask her out of complete desperation. How desperate? $5 million desperate.

 

After all, he thinks, whats the worst that can happen? She can say no.

 

I don’t like politicians. Doesn’t matter if they are the red or blue team but this guy even had a contract written up. He was not trying to deceive or participate in some shady backroom deal. He offered a business proposition to someone that would have made their future quite comfortable by the way.

 

Did he lack discretion? Yes.

 

But this was a mature theme that real people suffer with every day and I sympathize with he and his wife. His co-worker had every right to say no. Sadly, she lacked the maturity to properly deal with a mature adult situation as this and decided to go public rather than use discretion. She had the right to do this ofcourse, but how much of this is her seeing a nice lawsuit and payout in her future? 1-800-GLORIA-ALLRED.

 

I do not see this request to be a surrogate and make it possible for a loving couple to have a family as sexual harassment.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by ClutchClark

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

You know you are a very unpleasant person who does not appear to want to participate in a good natured manner.

 

Sarcasm is a communication technique of those with nothing of value to contribute.

 

For these reasons I am going to choose to ignore you.

This coming from someone who tells a falsehood about the Girl Scouts. What's next? Run for cover Motherhood and Apple Pie!

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This coming from someone who tells a falsehood about the Girl Scouts. What's next? Run for cover Motherhood and Apple Pie!

 

Its all right here on their website Buddy.

Read it for youself.

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/en/raising-girls/happy-and-healthy/happy/what-is-consent.html

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, ClutchClark said:

 

Its all right here on their website Buddy.

Read it for youself.

 

http://www.girlscouts.org/en/raising-girls/happy-and-healthy/happy/what-is-consent.html

Actually, the girl scouts did not say don't have your children hug your relatives. It says don't force them to. Huge difference.

This is from the page you linked to:

" Of course, many children may naturally want to hug and kiss family members, friends, and neighbors, and that’s lovely—but if your daughter is reticent, consider letting her choose what to do."

And you really got to work on the ignoring thing.

[Becker]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, the girl scouts did not say don't have your children hug your relatives. It says don't force them to. Huge difference.

This is from the page you linked to:

" Of course, many children may naturally want to hug and kiss family members, friends, and neighbors, and that’s lovely—but if your daughter is reticent, consider letting her choose what to do."

And you really got to work on the ignoring thing.

[ClutchClark]

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, the girl scouts did not say don't have your children hug your relatives. It says don't force them to. Huge difference.

This is from the page you linked to:

" Of course, many children may naturally want to hug and kiss family members, friends, and neighbors, and that’s lovely—but if your daughter is reticent, consider letting her choose what to do."

And you really got to work on the ignoring thing.

 

You are making false accusations and I could not leave them unchallenged.

 

At no time did I say what you attribute to me. 

 

And thats sweet you have your own cheering section.  ;-)

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

You are making false accusations and I could not leave them unchallenged.

 

At no time did I say what you attribute to me. 

 

And thats sweet you have your own cheering section.  ;-)

 

 

Actually, you're right, I did misattribute that quote to you. And you would have had me there. But instead you jumped in to defend the falsehood. Are you trying to make me look good? Anyway, thanks for rescuing me from the consequences of my gaffe. 

[ClutchClark]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, you're right, I did misattribute that quote to you. And you would have had me there. But instead you jumped in to defend the falsehood. Are you trying to make me look good? Anyway, thanks for rescuing me from the consequences of my gaffe. 

 

Alright I am in good cheer today so I will play this out.

 

You still own the gaffe.

 

My providing you a link was not an admission of guilt on my oart but simply an attempt to help you not look so clueless.

 

You appear very protective of the Girl Scouts. Were you a Scout?

 

This entire side thread does relate back to the actual topic, both stories make it clear this new generation is very quick to find themselves “uncomfortable” in circumstances that older generations like my own would have brushed off with indifference.

 

Does this somehow relate to the practice of all kids getting a medal even when they lose? Have we created generations of people who can’t process any emotions other than happy happy?

Edited December 9, 2017 by ClutchClark

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, Mansell said:

My understanding is this whole thing is a witch hunt on Franken that is orchestrated by the Republicans after he went after Sessions. I called Franken's office today and urged him to fight instead of quit, and that a lot of people support him. The woman who accused him initially was coached in her accusations. But the Republicans attacked Clinton and Obama for eight years each while they were presidents. As somebody once said, "If you don't want to get pig shit on you, don't get in with the pigs." And believe me these people in power are PIGS.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Trump is a pig. A pig of such profound proportions, my guess is that his body odor resembles something like sulphur, combined with doo doo. Everything about him is toxic. And he is bringing the party down with him. No grace, dignity, or common sense left in the GOP. Not that the dems are far behind. But, they have not sunk nearly as low, as endorsing an accused child molester, and statutory rapist. And never let us forget the "grab her by the pussy" comments, that Trump was heard saying. When you are famous you can do anything to them. What? That is not sexist? That is not misogynist? No doubt, Teflon Don the pig, is held to a different standard, and the party itself maintains different standards for it's members. 

 

Franken should stay and fight. He should fight the "great war on men". And he should challenge his accusers. Challenge their morality, and their character. He is being accused by a former playboy bunny. Is there even a chance she DID NOT use her body for favors, in her pursuit of fame and fortune. NOT. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by spidermike007

[lannarebirth]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Not quite. The Girl Scouts of America warned families not to force their girls to hug relatives.

 

You ever raised a teenage girl? They are the most self absorbed human beings on the planet. You have to force them to do everything.

 

 

 

 

[Rhys]

18 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You ever raised a teenage girl? They are the most self absorbed human beings on the planet. You have to force them to do everything.

 

 

 

 

 

Do the boy scouts, still sell scout-o-ramma tickets?

 

[Scott]

This topic is about Trent Franks.   I don't think he asked any Girl Scouts to be surrogates, so let's stick to that.  

[Credo]

There is an entire industry around the issue of surrogacy and there are many doctors who can help arrange a surrogate.   There are a lot of legal issues with the whole process.

 

It would be entirely different if he asked any of his staff 'if they knew anyone', but to ask a staff member is really quite out of line.   Hell, he could have called Kim Kardashian for a recommendation.   

 

 

[ClutchClark]

5 hours ago, Credo said:

There is an entire industry around the issue of surrogacy and there are many doctors who can help arrange a surrogate.   There are a lot of legal issues with the whole process.

 

It would be entirely different if he asked any of his staff 'if they knew anyone', but to ask a staff member is really quite out of line.   Hell, he could have called Kim Kardashian for a recommendation.   

 

 

 

Can only speak for myself but I happen to have many friendships established from the workplace including subordinates of mine who I still keep in touch with long after retirement. 

 

Since no mention was made one way or the other whether they were friends and coworkers then I don't think an assumption can be made either way; however, that distinction would affect how "out of line" it was. 

 

Still, if zi were in his shoes then I would want a surrogate that I knew personally rather than a stranger from a doctors list for the very reasons I mentioned earlier. 

 

I don't think he made a wise decision to introduce this into the workplace but I can understand how it happened. 

 

Here is one for you. A co-worker needed a kidney for his daughter. He asked some of us if we would consider donating a kidney. He didn't offer us $5 million though. Was he "out of line" to make that request? 

 

Interestingly, even though this example shares similarities with the topic, it differs in one key regard...a request for a kidney could be made of both male and female coworkers. The request for surrogacy can only be made of a female and THAT is why this meets the definition of "sexual harassment".  The accuser was chosen because of her sex.

[hdkane]

On 12/8/2017 at 9:27 AM, Credo said:

Of course there was more than just a discussion.   There would not be a ethics probe without more and since he has chosen to resign before it is concluded, you can bet your sweet bottom that there is more.

 

 

Nope. Ethics probes are opened with little or no evidence, usually. The process is a political cudgel. More than 95% of these probes find nothing inappropriate. There have been more than 600 ethics probes in the past decade, with very very very few people actually disciplined.  The only thing in this story that seems to lend validity to the notion of inappropriate behavior is the man's resignation, which could be for a number of reason, only one of which is inappropriate/illegal (i.e., be a surrogate or lose your job). He may have resigned because he didn't want this aspect of his or his family's life being on public display...he may have resigned to spend more time with his family...he may have resigned because the republicans want a younger individual in the office who can serve for decades...or someone who can undergo an election without an ethics probe in progress...or this probe may lead to other issues that are more substantial (e.g., affairs, diversion of public moneys to pay for personal matters, etc). Sure, there may be a scandal, but there is actually a greater possibility of political machinations. Because both parties hold an almost equivalent portion of the congress, there is quite a lot of scheming behind the scenes by both parties to secure a strong majority next election. Example--the evidence against Al Frankin is pretty weak, but he needs to resign so the Dems can go HAM against Trump on matters of sexual harassment.  So Frankin offered himself as a sacrifice to the party. That is why the Dems are retroactively criticizing Clinton for proven rape.

[Ron19]

Two off topic posts have been removed.

Please refer to the previous warning given on this page.