From Poles to Filipinos? UK food industry needs post-Brexit workers

[webfact]

From Poles to Filipinos? UK food industry needs post-Brexit workers

By Nigel Hunt

 

Dumidru Voicu poses at Cranswick Convenience Foods in Milton Keynes, Britain November 20, 2017. Picture taken November 20, 2017. REUTERS/Darren Staples

 

MILTON KEYNES, England (Reuters) - Britons who voted for Brexit in the hope of slashing immigration seem set for disappointment. In the farming and food industries at least, any exodus of Polish and Romanian workers may simply be followed by arrivals of Ukrainians and Filipinos.

 

From dairy farms to abattoirs, employers say not enough Britons have an appetite for milking cows before dawn or disembowelling pig carcasses - jobs often performed by workers from the poorer, eastern member states of the European Union.

 

With unemployment at a four-decade low of 4.3 percent, even Brexit supporters acknowledge the industries will need some migrant workers after Britain leaves the EU in 2019, ending the automatic right of the bloc's citizens to work in the country.

 

Employers praise eastern European staff for their skills and work ethic. "They are a massively valuable part of our workforce and a massively valuable part of the food industry overall," said Adam Couch, chief executive of Cranswick plc, a meat processing group founded by pig farmers.

 

Food and drink is the largest UK manufacturing sector, with a turnover of 110 billion pounds ($147 billion) in 2015, government figures show. Much of it depends heavily on staff from elsewhere in the EU, mainly the post-communist east.

 

For example, the British Meat Processors Association says 63 percent of workers in the sector come from other EU countries and in some plants it can be as high as 80 percent.

 

The proportion has risen partly due to increased demand for more labour intensive products such as boneless meat. Association members have found it impossible to recruit the additional employees needed from Britain, the BMPA says.

 

Pro-Brexit campaigners say Britain needs to reduce its reliance on EU workers. "Our sights should be firmly set on raising the skill level of our own domestic workers, employing domestic whenever we possibly can and automating," said Owen Paterson, a member of parliament for the ruling Conservatives.

 

But Paterson, who as a former Environment Secretary was responsible for UK agricultural policy from 2012-14, added: "Where there is a clear shortage and no technological solution, by all means bring in labour but the good news is we wouldn't be limited to the EU. We will have the whole world to choose from."

 

MONEY FOR A MONTH

 

On the meat production line, Romanian Dumidru Voicu explained the attractions of working at Cranswick's plant in Milton Keynes, a town northwest of London.

 

"I just want to do something with my life, save some money and make my own business. The money for a week here is the money for a month in Romania," said Voicu, who arrived in the country about the time that Britons voted to leave the EU in June last year.

 

An estimated 27,000 permanent staff from elsewhere in the EU worked in British agriculture last year, House of Commons staff noted in a briefing paper for members of parliament. This figure is swollen at times by around 75,000 seasonal workers.

 

A further 116,000 EU citizens worked in food manufacturing. The Food and Drink Federation predicts the sector, which employs about 400,000 people, needs to recruit another 140,000 by 2024.

 

The government, which wants to reduce immigration sharply, has yet to announce its post-Brexit policy but farm minister George Eustice has recognised employers' concerns. "Leaving the EU and establishing controlled migration does not mean closing off all immigration," he told parliament in earlier this year.

 

However, a government document leaked in September showed that restrictions for all but the highest-skilled EU workers were under consideration.

 

Such a possibility alarms farm employers. "Without EU labour there will be no British pig industry as we know it," said Zoe Davies, chief executive of the National Pig Association.

 

British farmers have relied on foreign labour for a long time, at least around harvest time. A Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme was introduced shortly after World War Two.

 

The government ended it in 2013 before Romanians and Bulgarians won the automatic right to work in Britain, arguing that there were now enough EU workers to fill farm vacancies.

 

With EU citizens to lose that right on Brexit, the National Farmers' Union (NFU) wants the scheme - or something similar - reinstated. This may mean going back to the time when people from beyond eastern Europe filled farm jobs.

 

Michael Oakes, chairman of the dairy board at the NFU, says older colleagues remember when people from countries such as the Philippines worked on British farms.

 

"There are other countries in the world that would help to solve the problem but at the moment because they are not within the EU they are not necessarily able to come in and work."

 

Filipinos already work on New Zealand farms but such an idea could prove politically difficult in Britain as the pro-Brexit side fought the referendum on promises to curb immigration.

 

Many of the 17 million Britons who voted to leave are likely to be unhappy if they find eastern Europeans simply replaced by non-EU workers such as Filipinos or Ukrainians.

 

"Perhaps we need to broaden out the opportunities but a lot of people voted for Brexit because of immigration reasons, so it is a tricky one for the government," said Oakes.

 

MAKING SACRIFICES

 

Any new seasonal scheme could still recruit in the EU, but might be forced to widen its scope to get the required numbers.

 

Net migration to the UK fell to 230,000 in the year to June, far from the government's ambition of arrivals "in the tens of thousands". Still, EU citizens accounted for three quarters of the 106,000 drop, the Office for National Statistics reported.

 

The figures present a mixed picture, with a net 20,000 Poles leaving the country in 2016 but 50,000 Romanians arriving.

 

But some eastern Europeans say they feel less welcome since the referendum and resent the negative attitude of some Britons.

 

"I was quite upset. Why do you have a problem with me if I am coming to take a job you don't want and I am paying tax?" said Zoltan Peter, who came to England in 2009 to work on a dairy farm in western England, initially leaving his wife and baby daughter at home in Romania.

 

Peter now works as a regional manager for LKL, a firm which recruits workers to the dairy industry, but says the early years were not easy. "I didn't catch my daughter starting to talk, but you sometimes you make sacrifices and eastern European people are making sacrifices," he told Reuters.

 

A drop in sterling since the referendum has also made Britain less attractive for farm workers who earn at least 7.20 pounds an hour. That was worth 41 Polish zlotys before the vote but now it buys only 34.

 

Part of the answer may lie in a drive to recruit and train more British workers, despite Peter's doubts.

 

Oakes said he needed people prepared to work long, unsocial hours often in cold, wet conditions. Milking on his farm starts at 4.30 am and the day does not end until 8 pm. "It is an early start or a late finish, and occasionally on bad days you might have to do both," he said.

 

($1 = 0.7492 pounds)

 

(Additional reporting by Ana Ionova; Editing by Veronica Brown and David Stamp)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-08

[Becker]

Well done those who voted for Brexit. This is exactly what you wanted, right?

[mfd101]

Oh surely not! Why would those British people be getting rid of all those fine East European workers if they still needed them? That would be stupid & irrational.

 

No no, I cannot believe it.

[Enoon]

I heard an interview with a Polish arable farm manager in the UK, he said in 5 years no British person had come for a job.

 

There is an employer I know personally (fast food catering) who relies on lower skill workers from an Eastern European country.

 

Since the "Madness" he has been unable to get good workers from there as they think that the UK has now become a bad prospect.  Previously they saw the job as a step on the ladder.

 

The people who have turned up have been the real dregs, and have been sent back.

 

Needless to say, he is unable to find sturdy, hardworking "British" people, who are happy to work for the minimum wage in the only sort of job they are fitted for.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Enoon

[Bluespunk]

Is that noise I hear the beating wings of chickens coming home to roost?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Bluespunk

[nahkit]

45 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Is that noise I hear the beating wings of chickens coming home to roost?

No, it's just wishful thinking on your part.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

No, it's just wishful thinking on your part.

Nope. 

 

I think that the uk has made a foolish choice, but they made it. 

 

I don't wish the country ill will, I have family and friends there. 

 

However, brexit is being mismanaged and is plagued by inept leadership. 

[dunroaming]

Just about every interview with every farmer and food processor have been saying this since the exodus of EU workers began.  But let's see how the new deals are negotiated.  For every EU worker that leaves or stops coming to work in the UK there will be other foreigners arriving and being welcomed to replace them.

[steve187]

they will just have to get the correct visa's for their workers, a points system, and at least these workers will not be sending child allowance home to Poland, for all children that have never been to the UK, or using up all the maternity units facilities at the local nhs hospital,  quote  ''ONE in six of all European Union births in a year took place in Britain''

 

the UK will have control over who arrives, unlike now

Edited December 8, 2017 by steve187

[goldenbrwn1]

Most brexiteers I talk to here in the UK that voted to leave just on the grounds of immigration , had or have no problem with Polish or other European workers coming here to work. We all know what kind of immigration it was that tipped the scales in favour of the  brexit vote.  

 Il just say it....Muslim immigration be it legal but mostly not , just marching through Europe thanks to the angelic, deluded Angela.  Throw in Islamic terrorism on our screens every night and bang...Brexit.

 

 

[the guest]

Cut the welfare system to the elderly and sick, and you will soon finder workers in the UK. The solution is simple! 

[eliotness]

So how did the UK manage to survive until the 1990s when mass immigration began ?

[Rhys]

Get ready for the Balut patrol.

 

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Most brexiteers I talk to here in the UK that voted to leave just on the grounds of immigration , had or have no problem with Polish or other European workers coming here to work. We all know what kind of immigration it was that tipped the scales in favour of the  brexit vote.  

 Il just say it....Muslim immigration be it legal but mostly not , just marching through Europe thanks to the angelic, deluded Angela.  Throw in Islamic terrorism on our screens every night and bang...Brexit.

 

 

So you’re saying the propaganda of prejudice, bigotry and intolerance played their part in brexit?

 

i would agree it had a role...

Edited December 8, 2017 by Bluespunk

[shackleton]

 

Looking at the news on the UK EU Eire and Northern Ireland  agreements today

Plus the way things are going the Brexiteers  are in for a rude awakening with the ,freedom of movement  , Single Market  Customs Union and the European Court of Justice still having their say

looks like a very soft Brexit coming up might as well stayed in saved all the hassle of things to come 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, the guest said:

Cut the welfare system to the elderly and sick, and you will soon finder workers in the UK. The solution is simple! 

Isn't that already being done?

[baansgr]

The easiest and long term solution for these companies, is to pay a decent salary with attached benefits such as pension scheme, sick pay, holiday pay. Scrap zero hour contracts and abolish what is nothing more than slave labour.... We live in the 21st century. Of course profits would have to take a hit or more likely the old BS of must psss the extra cost onto the consumer. Greed written all over this article. 

[Thongkorn]

More <deleted> News, never heard of  automatic milking machines, There are more machines that work on the land which makes it more cost effective, Same as pigs mostly done by machines,

[simple1]

10 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

So you’re saying the propaganda of prejudice, bigotry and intolerance played their part in brexit?

 

i would agree it had a role...

Does BREXIT actually change HMG policy for Muslim heritage people immigration into the UK; if so how? How has HMG policy changed, or is planned to change, regards "illegal immigration" which factually translates to visa overstayers / abuse of visa conditions.

[citybiker]

Its not just the UK food industry that needs 'controlled, qualified immigration'

 

The financial service's sector

Hotel & hospitality sector

Event industry

And if the NHS and other specialist care sectors.

 

A very close friend is a care home manager on 40+k and she regularly has trouble retaining staff within her industry.

The over reliance of agency workers is an ongoing challenge, and this is qualified and experienced staff.

 

The food processing industry will always require cheaper (unqualified labour) irrespective of their nationality.

 

Make work pay properly, deter & limit those seeking only a welfare state lifestyle and make it an temporary emergency safety net only until they return to work and contribute to society instead of becoming a drain.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[pegman]

So does this deal mean any EU passport holder can enter the UK by flying into Dublin?

[citybiker]

So does this deal mean any EU passport holder can enter the UK by flying into Dublin?

IIRC all major U.K. airports have EU (fast track) biometric passport & non EU access anyway.

(Genuine or sarcasm related question?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

55 minutes ago, citybiker said:

IIRC all major U.K. airports have EU (fast track) biometric passport & non EU access anyway.

(Genuine or sarcasm related question?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does this mean that once Brexit takes effect, EU passport holders from any EU country can't be denied entry to the UK?

[7by7]

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:35 AM, webfact said:

But Paterson, who as a former Environment Secretary was responsible for UK agricultural policy from 2012-14, added: "Where there is a clear shortage and no technological solution, by all means bring in labour but the good news is we wouldn't be limited to the EU. We will have the whole world to choose from."

 

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:06 AM, dunroaming said:

Just about every interview with every farmer and food processor have been saying this since the exodus of EU workers began.  But let's see how the new deals are negotiated.  For every EU worker that leaves or stops coming to work in the UK there will be other foreigners arriving and being welcomed to replace them.

It is not surprising that you are unaware of the points based system for work visas for the UK; a system which means, among other requirements, that the foreign (currently non EEA) worker must be paid at least £30,000 p.a.!

 

How many farmers can pay their labourers that?

 

It is surprising that a member of May's government isn't aware of this, since the work visa rules were tightened up considerably by May when she was Home Secretary!

[7by7]

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:59 AM, goldenbrwn1 said:

Most brexiteers I talk to here in the UK that voted to leave just on the grounds of immigration , had or have no problem with Polish or other European workers coming here to work. We all know what kind of immigration it was that tipped the scales in favour of the  brexit vote.  

 Il just say it....Muslim immigration be it legal but mostly not , just marching through Europe thanks to the angelic, deluded Angela.  Throw in Islamic terrorism on our screens every night and bang...Brexit.

 

 

 From vox pops at the time; you are right that many people voted for Brexit for just that reason.

 

But they were wrong; EU membership has nothing to do with Muslims immigrating to the UK; for two reasons.

 

1) Most Muslims coming to the UK are from Pakistan or Bangladesh; most already living here are of that heritage. Neither of which are in the EU. therefore immigrants from these countries come under the UK's immigration rules, not the EU freedom of movement regulations. Brexit will have zero effect on these numbers.

 

2) The UK is not in the Schengen area. Therefore, refugees, Muslim or not, who have gained entry to the Schengen area, by fair means or foul, and, as you put it, marched through Europe cannot automatically enter the UK. As well as having to pass through UK immigration, they also have the physical barrier of the Channel or North Sea to cross. Yes, people do enter the UK illegally, but Brexit wont stop that. 

 

Those who voted for Brexit to stop Muslim immigration to the UK at best only displayed their ignorance. That there may very well have been enough of them to tip the balance in favour of Brexit is a disaster we will all have to try and make the best of.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by 7by7
Correct typo

[Thongkorn]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 From vox pops at the time; you are right that many people voted for Brexit for just that reason.

 

But they were wrong; EU membership has nothing to do with Muslim immigrating to the UK; for two reasons.

 

1) Most, if not all, Muslims in the UK are from Pakistan or Bangladesh; neither of which are in the EWU. therefore immigrants from these countries come under the UK's immigration rules, not the EU freedom of movement regulations. Brexit will have zero effect on these numbers.

 

2) The UK is not in the Schengen area. Therefore, refugees, Muslim or not, who have gained entry to the Schengen area, by fair means or foul, and, as you put it, marched through Europe cannot automatically enter the UK. As well as having to pass through UK immigration, they also have the physical barrier of the Channel or North Sea to cross. Yes, people do enter the UK illegally, but Brexit wont stop that. 

 

Those who voted for Brexit to stop Muslim immigration to the UK at best only displayed their ignorance. That there may very well have been enough of them to tip the balance in favour of Brexit is a disaster we will all have to try and make the best of.

 

 

You underestimate the People who voted out, mainly becasue  Unelected men who cannot be reprimanded or sacked, Go in a closed room lock the door in secret and make Life changing decisions for 500 million people , the EU is one big trading Quango. Speak to Polish people they have the same attitude they have immigrants from Latvia, Ukraine. The EU wants free movement of people to keep wages down, cheep labour.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Thongkorn

[7by7]

17 hours ago, baansgr said:

The easiest and long term solution for these companies, is to pay a decent salary with attached benefits such as pension scheme, sick pay, holiday pay. Scrap zero hour contracts and abolish what is nothing more than slave labour.... We live in the 21st century. Of course profits would have to take a hit or more likely the old BS of must psss the extra cost onto the consumer. Greed written all over this article. 

 

Farm profits may halve after Brexit, says report

Quote

The profitability of the average UK farm could fall by as much as half after Brexit, new research suggests.

The report, by the Agriculture & Horticulture Development Board (AHDB), says the "worst-case scenario" would cut average farm profits from £38,000 a year to just £15,000.

The analysis tries to model the effects of cheaper imported food, reduced subsidies and more expensive labour

 

Do farmers make more from subsidies than agriculture?

Quote

“Last year the average farm made £2,100 from agriculture and £28,300 from subsidies. The typical cereal farmer actually lost £9,500 by farming cereals.”

The Times, 4 August 2016

The basic point is correct: on average, farmers across the UK make far more money from subsidies than they do from agriculture. Cereal farmers lose money. The exact figures depend on what you class as a ‘subsidy’.

Of course much, not all, of these subsidies come from the EU; and that money will probably stop after Brexit.

Edited December 9, 2017 by 7by7

[White Christmas13]

So they need Poles and Filipinos why not just importing Filipinas Pole dancers

[Thongkorn]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Farm profits may halve after Brexit, says report

 

Do farmers make more from subsidies than agriculture?

Of course much, not all, of these subsidies come from the EU; and that money will probably stop after Brexit.

yes They Give part of our OWN money back 

[7by7]

 

9 hours ago, pegman said:

So does this deal mean any EU passport holder can enter the UK by flying into Dublin?

 

No.

 

There is a common travel area between the UK and RoI, and has been since the 1920s. British and Irish citizens merely need to prove their nationality by any means when travelling from one country to the other.

 

At present, EEA nationals also merely have to prove their nationality, and a national ID card will suffice; but post Brexit will probably be treated the same as non EEA nationals are currently and have to show a passport with, if required, the appropriate visa.

 

9 hours ago, citybiker said:

IIRC all major U.K. airports have EU (fast track) biometric passport & non EU access anyway.

Plus British passport holders, of course.

 

Presumably post Brexit these gates will be limited to British passport holders only. Although hopefully, as now, non British family members with the appropriate visa will be allowed to accompany them.

 

8 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Does this mean that once Brexit takes effect, EU passport holders from any EU country can't be denied entry to the UK?

Currently, EEA nationals who do not meet the requirements of the Freedom of Movement Directive can be denied entrance to the UK; So I see no reason why EEA nationals should be treated any differently to all others post Brexit. Except for those covered by this agreement who will be resident in the UK on the date of Brexit and their families. The same, of course, applies to British citrizens who will be resident in an EU country on the date of Brexit.