DIY Working in and around own house

[HenryC]

Could someone please clarify what are the rules and regulations in Thailand for expats working on their own property?

 

For example: painting walls, cutting grass, washing car, general DIY etc?

 

I've heard if a Thai can do the job you are not allowed. Is this correct?

[ubonjoe]

If you are doing DIY things at your own home there is not a problem with doing it.

Doing a major renovation or painting the entire exterior of the house might attract attention of somebody.

[HenryC]

Thanks Joe.

 

Are you inferring if you are out of sight, you are out of mind and therefore generally OK. I wonder what classes as major renovation.

 

If doing work that attracts someone attention may become a problem for you, then there must be a regulation?

 

Reason I ask - I have had so many problems with Thai workman i.e., poor workman ship that I have had to fix myself and extortionate prices in Pattaya if you can get someone to return I've had enough and I would prefer to finish any remaining jobs myself.

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by HenryC
spelling

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, HenryC said:

Are you inferring if you are out of sight, you are out of mind and therefore generally OK. I wonder what classes as major renovation.

 

If doing work that attracts someone attention may become a problem for you, then there must be a regulation?

Not so much out of site out of mind but just small jobs out side the house. Paint touch up or painting a door and etc outside the house would be OK.

Renovation would be adding a room on the house, changing windows or the roof and etc. 

A lot depends upon where your house it located and how friendly your neighbors are.

[HenryC]

Gee, you gotta love it here.

 

I always loved the old adage 'proceed until apprehended', but maybe not so much in Thailand.

 

I'll be honest, I have a large house and it requires continual maintenance. I'm pottering around all day either watering the garden or fixing something that has broken. I work pretty slow, heat allows me only short bursts - these 'jobs' drag out.

 

Mainly foreign neighbours, but still a Thai contingent.

 

So, in the lap of the gods whether you are grassed or not it seems. The line is rather blurred and I hate to labour a point.

 

If grassed (reported for suspicious activity) what would likely consequences be?

 

Thanks Joe. 

[John Than]

2 hours ago, HenryC said:

Thanks Joe.

 

Are you inferring if you are out of sight, you are out of mind and therefore generally OK. I wonder what classes as major renovation.

 

If doing work that attracts someone attention may become a problem for you, then there must be a regulation?

 

Reason I ask - I have had so many problems with Thai workman i.e., poor workman ship that I have had to fix myself and extortionate prices in Pattaya if you can get someone to return I've had enough and I would prefer to finish any remaining jobs myself.

 

 

 

Avoid quarrels or abusing construction rules, the latter in my opinion is a major affront to Thai pride when not backed up with no greasy palms.  

[Paul944]

I am sure there is a definition what is considered to be 'work' in Thailand.

 

Can you drive a car or  do you have to hire a driver?

Can you walk or bicycle to visit a place or do you have to go by public/private transport?

Are you allowed to clean a glass in a hotel room or do you have to call room service?

 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Paul944 said:

I am sure there is a definition what is considered to be 'work' in Thailand.

Sure, there is a definition. According to the Working of Alien Act 2008:

Quote

"Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit

Section 4 contains some exceptions, relating to diplomatic staff.

 

The literal wording of the Act makes almost any activity illegal. As a practical matter, enforcement is more pragmatic. In fact, there are quite a few areas (such as business meetings and attendance at trade shows) where the authorities have announced you will not be prosecuted for lack of a work permit. There are numerous other categories of work (for instance, digital nomads with exclusively overseas clients) that we know are tolerated based on lack of enforcement even though they can easily be found in co-working spaces. Driving yourself (and even driving friends without charging fares) is obviously acceptable, as is routine maintenance of your own property. Major structural alteration of a property, if it came to the attention of the authorities, and especially if a prelude to sale, would likely not be tolerated.

 

I do not think it is possible to draw a clear line between what is and is not tolerated. Pretty much everything is illegal under the latter of the law.

[elviajero]

11 hours ago, HenryC said:

Could someone please clarify what are the rules and regulations in Thailand for expats working on their own property?

 

For example: painting walls, cutting grass, washing car, general DIY etc?

 

I've heard if a Thai can do the job you are not allowed. Is this correct?

No that's complete nonsense.

 

There is no law against you doing any of those things on your own property. You are not being employed by anyone or carrying out a business/job/occupation etc.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by elviajero

[elviajero]

54 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The literal wording of the Act makes almost any activity illegal.

No it doesn't! It makes any work by an employee on behalf of an employer illegal without permission.

 

The reason the definition of work exists in within the Employment Act is to stop an EMPLOYER from avoiding WP regulation by claiming the EMPLOYEE is unpaid or a volunteer. The Act, and the definition of work within the Act, have absolutely no relevance to someone painting their own house. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by elviajero

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

No it doesn't! It makes any work by an employee on behalf of an employer illegal without permission.

 

The reason the definition of work exists in within the Employment Act is to stop an EMPLOYER from avoiding WP regulation by claiming the EMPLOYEE is unpaid or a volunteer. The Act, and the definition of work within the Act, have absolutely no relevance to someone painting their own house. 

I cannot say for certain that your interpretation is wrong. However, I think it would have been easy enough to add "carried out for someone else" to the definition of "work" within the act if all activities on your own behalf were considered OK. It is very sloppy drafting of the law if that qualification was inadvertently omitted.

[dotpoom]

Sometimes in life we need to apply a little bit of "common sense" when in doubt.

[cornishcarlos]

9 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

Sometimes in life we need to apply a little bit of "common sense" when in doubt.

 

The trouble is, "common sense" isn't very common...

[LawrenceN]

15 hours ago, Paul944 said:

I am sure there is a definition what is considered to be 'work' in Thailand.

 

Can you drive a car or  do you have to hire a driver?

Can you walk or bicycle to visit a place or do you have to go by public/private transport?

Are you allowed to clean a glass in a hotel room or do you have to call room service?

 

If you lift a spoon to your own lips, are you taking work from the nursing assistant who can be paid to do that? My point being that there are limits to this idea that everything has to be hired out. Sweep your own pavement, wash your own dishes, and if your hobby happens to be refinishing furniture, enjoy!

[Saan]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you are doing DIY things at your own home there is not a problem with doing it.

Doing a major renovation or painting the entire exterior of the house might attract attention of somebody.

The crux is that the home is not yours. The DIY you are doing is for someone else's home. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Saan said:

The crux is that the home is not yours. The DIY you are doing is for someone else's home. 

A home is a home you do not need to own it for it to be a home. Having a house is owning it or being a co-owner.

[toolpush]

36 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

The trouble is, "common sense" isn't very common...

As far as I have been told by Thia acquaintances, there is no Thai equivalent of the concept "common sense". It does not translate into Thai as well.

[overherebc]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A home is a home you do not need to own it for it to be a home. Having a house is owning it or being a co-owner.

Well,,, you can own a house, but not the land it stands on, so!!!!

can you work on the house but not do any gardening?????

I just tell my wife it's illegal for me to do anything now I'm retired so it leaves more time free to play with the dogs and drink beer. Hold on, is it legal for me to pour my own beer????

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, toolpush said:

As far as I have been told by Thia acquaintances, there is no Thai equivalent of the concept "common sense". It does not translate into Thai as well.

Closest I've heard is something that sounds like

Geng Maak.????

[tgeezer]

The crux is that the home is not yours. The DIY you are doing is for someone else's home. 

Even if it were yours, people who report on TM 30 forms would understand that you can be two people at the same time! Labour Law and Immigration probably have the same logic.
I built a kitchen in my first condo, much of the work being done in the car park. I was driving my little Toyota ‘street fighter’ down to S. Prachanareumit in BangPo for supplies frequently, no problem. The point is ordinary people don’t know any rules and mind their own business, Thai people take chances we should too, that is one attraction of Thailand.

[bluesofa]

49 minutes ago, Saan said:

The crux is that the home is not yours. The DIY you are doing is for someone else's home. 

I think being pedantic you could possibly own the house (the building, but not the land).

 

BTW, when I tried to translate 'common sense' into Thai, google came up with an error. (sorry!)

[jeab1980]

Just get on with it lol all this rubish about WP. The very best option is not to bother asking on here just do it

[hawker9000]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

Sure, there is a definition. According to the Working of Alien Act 2008:

Section 4 contains some exceptions, relating to diplomatic staff.

 

The literal wording of the Act makes almost any activity illegal. As a practical matter, enforcement is more pragmatic. In fact, there are quite a few areas (such as business meetings and attendance at trade shows) where the authorities have announced you will not be prosecuted for lack of a work permit. There are numerous other categories of work (for instance, digital nomads with exclusively overseas clients) that we know are tolerated based on lack of enforcement even though they can easily be found in co-working spaces. Driving yourself (and even driving friends without charging fares) is obviously acceptable, as is routine maintenance of your own property. Major structural alteration of a property, if it came to the attention of the authorities, and especially if a prelude to sale, would likely not be tolerated.

 

I do not think it is possible to draw a clear line between what is and is not tolerated. Pretty much everything is illegal under the latter of the law.

"As a practical matter, enforcement is more pragmatic. "

 

Or IOW, discretionary.  If someone in a position to do so decides they WANT what you're doing to be an issue, then it WILL be an issue.  As a foreigner, you DO get a vote; it just doesn't count.

 

[sammieuk1]

Time for the Mrs to learn how to use the mower and strimmer  happy days .  

[overherebc]

14 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Time for the Mrs to learn how to use the mower and strimmer  happy days .  

Don't forget you can't teach her without a degree and a WP.

You may have to close the curtains and watch instructional videos on it but keep the volume down.

??

[Daveyh]

HenryC ................ DIY around the house is ok. You're not working for anyone for financial reward, so a "work permit' is not required. I understand what you say that the workmanship is poor & they don't take criticism lightly as they seem to think it's a "loss of face thing" that creeps in with every negotiation with a local ......... hence, difficult getting anything done to a reasonable standard. I've made many mistakes paying them for their work as they progress, but now I refuse to as when they get another job on their books with better financial reward they fail to show up period. I make it plainly clear from the start that I only pay for materials whilst they do the job on sight of a receipt. Once the job is finished to my satisfaction I pay them in full. Normally once the rules are established I manage to get "almost" all what I want ;-) ........... but everything is "up hill" here & the golden rule is to be on your guard & trust no-one.

 

I've tried having a plumber, electrician & general labourer on call if I need them, this works for a while & then they either move away or find full time employment, so you are back to "square one" again ........... there is no easy answer here sadly to getting anything done. I've waited days for people to turn up & they don't ......... phoning is another problem where you don't get answers .... very frustrating & deep breathing is always the cure!!

 

Best of luck with your DIY ...... I too do quite a bit around the house to stave off the boredom & never had a problem. Cheers   

[Cyclone88]

As a previous poster said. 

Common sense. 

If your going to be running scared of doing minor jobs around the house, I'd suggest you'd be happier if you went home. 

So much scare mongering. 

They really don't give a toss unless your taking a Thai job away or yourwife / gf wants you deported for some reason or another. 

 

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Don't forget you can't teach her without a degree and a WP.

You may have to close the curtains and watch instructional videos on it but keep the volume down.

??

If you used a protractor to check the mower line were square, you'd have plenty of degrees...

[Foozool]

I believe working on your own property does not count as "work" since you won't get paid for it and it is not business related. 

Working on your own business would be a different story, never do it you could get in trouble. 

I have done very major adding to my girlfriend's. No problem. 

Basicly nothing becomes problem as long as you do not cross others and makeing some unhappy. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Foozool

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, Foozool said:

I believe working on your own property does not count as "work" since you won't get paid for it and it is not business related. 

Working on your own business would be a different story, never do it you could get in trouble. 

I have done very major adding to my girlfriend's. No problem. 

Basicly nothing becomes problem as long as you do not cross others and makeing some unhappy. 

In reality getting paid or not doesn't come into it.

Lots of people would love to help out at local schools etc without pay but they can't because it would be classed as working.

People trying to help at the time of the Tsunami were at times getting hassle for not having WP's.