Are There Any Bodybuilders On This Forum Who Use Whey Protein

[jonniebkk]

There are hundreds of serious bodybuilders in this town, so surely there is a cheaper source somewhere.

Can anyone help?

None of them do it the hard way in Pattaya...they all just juice-up

It's a bit off topic, but "juicing-up" will get you nowhere without adequate protein.

Add lots of egg-white and pureed chicken breasts to the syringe

[tropo]

There are hundreds of serious bodybuilders in this town, so surely there is a cheaper source somewhere.

Can anyone help?

None of them do it the hard way in Pattaya...they all just juice-up

It's a bit off topic, but "juicing-up" will get you nowhere without adequate protein.

Add lots of egg-white and pureed chicken breasts to the syringe

Do you think some weight training may help?

[soundman]

Baiting post deleted.

If you two don't stop bickering on the open forum I will suspend your posting priveledges.

[rmicheald]

I've been trying to track down whey protein (isolate) to use as a protein supplement. There's a shop at Tony's Gym on 3rd Road (north of Pattaya Tai) that sells Thai manufactured whey protein for the ridiculous price of 1,800 per 1kg...and Musashi brand from Australia at 1,900 per 1kg.

I can understand the cost of the high quality imported Musashi product, but the Thai manufactured product is seriously over priced.

I found some American whey in the Big C centre (can't remember the shop name - next to the Body Shop) going for an even more ridiculous 2,800 per 1kg.

There are hundreds of serious bodybuilders in this town, so surely there is a cheaper source somewhere.

Can anyone help?

There is a Koisk at Tesco or maybe it was at Big C that had the same whey I was using in the US. Didn't look at prices.

[tropo]

Baiting post deleted.

If you two don't stop bickering on the open forum I will suspend your posting priveledges.

Bickering on my 2 year old protein thread?? I missed it!

[tropo]

I've been trying to track down whey protein (isolate) to use as a protein supplement. There's a shop at Tony's Gym on 3rd Road (north of Pattaya Tai) that sells Thai manufactured whey protein for the ridiculous price of 1,800 per 1kg...and Musashi brand from Australia at 1,900 per 1kg.

I can understand the cost of the high quality imported Musashi product, but the Thai manufactured product is seriously over priced.

I found some American whey in the Big C centre (can't remember the shop name - next to the Body Shop) going for an even more ridiculous 2,800 per 1kg.

There are hundreds of serious bodybuilders in this town, so surely there is a cheaper source somewhere.

Can anyone help?

There is a Koisk at Tesco or maybe it was at Big C that had the same whey I was using in the US. Didn't look at prices.

This thread is almost 2 years old, but thanks for the reply. I still use whey protein everyday.

It's amazing just how expensive any whey protein is in Thailand (imported or locally made).

I've been ordering through the www.thaisupplements.com website for about a year now and been very pleased with their prices and service. The Musashi products they sell are first class.

[spiderman2]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

I am looking to buy some L Glutamine, Creatine Ethyl Ester , Whey Protein, Dextrose Glucose, Ultra Fine Scottish Oats (porridge) and maybe some Acetyl L-carnitine, from here -

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/your-goals/lean-muscle/

Ive taken Creatine Monohydrate and am not too sure about its worth, but the Creatine Ethyl Ester is meant to be far better.

Does anyone know anything about these type of products and if they actually work or if theyre potentially bad for you, as in from personal experience not from what you may have read somewhere.

I only eat English and Italian food which isnt always the best in Patts, and the amount of food id need to train 3.5/4 hours a day would just make me fat, hence the need for a helping hand.

Edited November 6, 2008 by spiderman2

[tattoodrob]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

I am looking to buy some L Glutamine, Creatine Ethyl Ester , Whey Protein, Dextrose Glucose, Ultra Fine Scottish Oats (porridge) and maybe some Acetyl L-carnitine, from here -

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/your-goals/lean-muscle/

Ive taken Creatine Monohydrate and am not too sure about its worth, but the Creatine Ethyl Ester is meant to be far better.

Does anyone know anything about these type of products and if they actually work or if theyre potentially bad for you, as in from personal experience not from what you may have read somewhere.

I only eat English and Italian food which isnt always the best in Patts, and the amount of food id need to train 3.5/4 hours a day would just make me fat, hence the need for a helping hand.

i would say anyone training hard should get a good source of protein whether it be from shakes ,food or combined and you will also need a good source of carbohydrate just to have the energy to train that long.......id be surprised though if you put any fat on whatever you ate if you were training 3 to 4 hours a day,thats a lot of calories burned. dextrose/glucose is just sugar and most of your energy should come from good carbohydrates consumed throughout the day so i wouldnt worry about that,porridge good carbs but you wont want to eat that all day!!!

[spiderman2]

Cheers are the new types of Creatine better then the old ie the Ethyl Ester better then the Monohydrate, and does it make a big difference.

[tropo]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

[tattoodrob]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

agree,but hard to get enough good low fat protein in diet unless eating a rich protein food every few hours so i think shakes are a good thing for most. i still dont get enough protein and eat loads and should have protein shakes everyday to make up for it but after years of training and eating and supplementing i just cant be bothered .

agree about creatine...expensive and just makes the body hold a bit more water while taking it although many have said they get stronger but i tried it and didnt really see any improvement anywhere so stopped.

protein is made up of amino acids so if you have enough protein in your diet you wouldnt need amino tabs and to be honest the amount that is in a tablet is very very small and they aint too cheap.

if you eat healthy and have enough protein in your diet you cant go far wrong.....99 percent of supplements are just hyped up just to make money but if someone doesnt eat very good then they are a bit more important.in thailand i take multi vits as dont get enough in my diet as eat thai food too much and should get a bit more protein in.

[tropo]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

agree,but hard to get enough good low fat protein in diet unless eating a rich protein food every few hours so i think shakes are a good thing for most. i still dont get enough protein and eat loads and should have protein shakes everyday to make up for it but after years of training and eating and supplementing i just cant be bothered .

agree about creatine...expensive and just makes the body hold a bit more water while taking it although many have said they get stronger but i tried it and didnt really see any improvement anywhere so stopped.

protein is made up of amino acids so if you have enough protein in your diet you wouldnt need amino tabs and to be honest the amount that is in a tablet is very very small and they aint too cheap.

if you eat healthy and have enough protein in your diet you cant go far wrong.....99 percent of supplements are just hyped up just to make money but if someone doesnt eat very good then they are a bit more important.in thailand i take multi vits as dont get enough in my diet as eat thai food too much and should get a bit more protein in.

I disagree on needing protein every few hours. That's excessive and a waste. Most athletes have been hoodwinked into believing they need more protein than they really require as a result of advertising by the protein supplement companies. I can maintain 245 - 250 lbs of bodyweight at 13% bodyfat with 3 square meals a day plus a shake.

Read this study on protein intake for athletes and may get quite a surprise:

protein_study.pdf

[tattoodrob]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

agree,but hard to get enough good low fat protein in diet unless eating a rich protein food every few hours so i think shakes are a good thing for most. i still dont get enough protein and eat loads and should have protein shakes everyday to make up for it but after years of training and eating and supplementing i just cant be bothered .

agree about creatine...expensive and just makes the body hold a bit more water while taking it although many have said they get stronger but i tried it and didnt really see any improvement anywhere so stopped.

protein is made up of amino acids so if you have enough protein in your diet you wouldnt need amino tabs and to be honest the amount that is in a tablet is very very small and they aint too cheap.

if you eat healthy and have enough protein in your diet you cant go far wrong.....99 percent of supplements are just hyped up just to make money but if someone doesnt eat very good then they are a bit more important.in thailand i take multi vits as dont get enough in my diet as eat thai food too much and should get a bit more protein in.

I disagree on needing protein every few hours. That's excessive and a waste. Most athletes have been hoodwinked into believing they need more protein than they really require as a result of advertising by the protein supplement companies. I can maintain 245 - 250 lbs of bodyweight at 13% bodyfat with 3 square meals a day plus a shake.

Read this study on protein intake for athletes and may get quite a surprise:

protein_study.pdf

couldnt open that file,im shit on computers so if it dont come up after clicking then im afraid thats as far as i get,computer illiterate...surprised i can post on here!!!

as far as i know the body will only assimulate 20 to 30 grams of protein in one sitting hence the need to eat protein regularly to get enough and most studies say you need 1 to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight a day to increase muscle mass.

it has been like this for many years so am interested in your study as other studies have shown less muscle growth when protein intake been minimal.obviously supplement companies want you to take all there products as much as possible but the big guys have been eating loads to get big for years.

as i said i couldnt open your attachment but as far as i know/see the big boys seem to be eating/ingesting a hel_l of a lot of protein a day still.im a ectomorph and would lose weight on only 3 meals a day sure.....i ate 5 to 7 times a day for years and still didnt put on weight/muscle?????

you doing well maintaining that size/bodyfat on 3 meals,you gotta be a genetic freak ....for sure.maybe you ate loads before to get that size and now you maintain it with 3 meals a day but i still say genetic lucky bastad freak

are you still in your late 20s early 30s as im surprised at your bodyfat if you older than that .

maybe you can let me know webite of study as may find it this way and see what i think........i havent been to any seminars or training course in last few years but all the ones i did gave me my way of thinking and they werent linked to any supplement companies that could profit from them telling it that way!!

surely you believe if you burning a lot of calories and breaking down muscle tissue that you gotta eat more calories and include more protein than average guy?? its gotta be laws of physics or something like that??

[Robski]

It's an old thread, but as it's been bumped...

Can you get whey at a good price now?

[tattoodrob]

tropo,just read your other post so am in shock that you have been training 32 years.....i thought my 23 years was long !!!

i still say you are a genetic freak to have that size/ bodyfat at.... i guess you must be 47 years up?

normal testosterone levels drop at 35 to 40 years old on average which makes it harder to maintain muscle mass and keep fat percentage low so you doing well hence my genetic freak comments. i still say you didnt eat 3 times a day with little protein during your 32 years of training!

[tropo]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

agree,but hard to get enough good low fat protein in diet unless eating a rich protein food every few hours so i think shakes are a good thing for most. i still dont get enough protein and eat loads and should have protein shakes everyday to make up for it but after years of training and eating and supplementing i just cant be bothered .

agree about creatine...expensive and just makes the body hold a bit more water while taking it although many have said they get stronger but i tried it and didnt really see any improvement anywhere so stopped.

protein is made up of amino acids so if you have enough protein in your diet you wouldnt need amino tabs and to be honest the amount that is in a tablet is very very small and they aint too cheap.

if you eat healthy and have enough protein in your diet you cant go far wrong.....99 percent of supplements are just hyped up just to make money but if someone doesnt eat very good then they are a bit more important.in thailand i take multi vits as dont get enough in my diet as eat thai food too much and should get a bit more protein in.

I disagree on needing protein every few hours. That's excessive and a waste. Most athletes have been hoodwinked into believing they need more protein than they really require as a result of advertising by the protein supplement companies. I can maintain 245 - 250 lbs of bodyweight at 13% bodyfat with 3 square meals a day plus a shake.

Read this study on protein intake for athletes and may get quite a surprise:

protein_study.pdf

couldnt open that file,im shit on computers so if it dont come up after clicking then im afraid thats as far as i get,computer illiterate...surprised i can post on here!!!

as far as i know the body will only assimulate 20 to 30 grams of protein in one sitting hence the need to eat protein regularly to get enough and most studies say you need 1 to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight a day to increase muscle mass.

it has been like this for many years so am interested in your study as other studies have shown less muscle growth when protein intake been minimal.obviously supplement companies want you to take all there products as much as possible but the big guys have been eating loads to get big for years.

as i said i couldnt open your attachment but as far as i know/see the big boys seem to be eating/ingesting a hel_l of a lot of protein a day still.im a ectomorph and would lose weight on only 3 meals a day sure.....i ate 5 to 7 times a day for years and still didnt put on weight/muscle?????

you doing well maintaining that size/bodyfat on 3 meals,you gotta be a genetic freak ....for sure.maybe you ate loads before to get that size and now you maintain it with 3 meals a day but i still say genetic lucky bastad freak

are you still in your late 20s early 30s as im surprised at your bodyfat if you older than that .

maybe you can let me know webite of study as may find it this way and see what i think........i havent been to any seminars or training course in last few years but all the ones i did gave me my way of thinking and they werent linked to any supplement companies that could profit from them telling it that way!!

surely you believe if you burning a lot of calories and breaking down muscle tissue that you gotta eat more calories and include more protein than average guy?? its gotta be laws of physics or something like that??

If you've got a pdf reader such as Acrobat Reader you should be able to just click on the file and read it.

Basically the study concludes that an athlete needs around 1 gram of fat per kilo of bodyweight. It also concludes that endurance athletes need more protein than bodybuilders.

I've always thought outside the box and never felt comfortable with the amount of protein that is currently being suggested by bodybuilders. I also don't agree with the maximum absorption of 20 to 30 grams per meal. If you take easily digestible protein you should easily be able to absorb double that.

I don't like the idea of consuming 5 - 7 meals per day. Why not just eat bigger meals with more calories? As an ectomorph you shouldn't have a fat problem, and even if you did you could adjust your calories to compensate.

Perhaps one of the reasons you find it difficult to put on bodyweight is because you don't consume enough fat and carbohydrates. It's easy to maintain a higher calorie intake if you eat more fat. Muscle gain is a very slow process and really doesn't require such huge quantities of protein.

[tropo]

It's an old thread, but as it's been bumped...

Can you get whey at a good price now?

http://www.thaisupplements.com/

Best price I've seen in Thailand. They deliver free to Pattaya the next day. You can use Paypal or deposit into a bank account to pay. In Bangkok they have a COD system.

1kg of Musashi WPI for only 1600 baht

[tattoodrob]

Do protein shakes, Creatine and amino acids actually work.

Protein shakes only work if you need the extra protein. If you have enough in your diet already, then it's just a waste of money.

I don't bother with creatine as the benefit is just temporary while you're using it. A waste of money IMO.

Amino acids are not necessary if you're getting enough high quality protein. Also a waste of money and you'll need to leave the room when you pass wind.

agree,but hard to get enough good low fat protein in diet unless eating a rich protein food every few hours so i think shakes are a good thing for most. i still dont get enough protein and eat loads and should have protein shakes everyday to make up for it but after years of training and eating and supplementing i just cant be bothered .

agree about creatine...expensive and just makes the body hold a bit more water while taking it although many have said they get stronger but i tried it and didnt really see any improvement anywhere so stopped.

protein is made up of amino acids so if you have enough protein in your diet you wouldnt need amino tabs and to be honest the amount that is in a tablet is very very small and they aint too cheap.

if you eat healthy and have enough protein in your diet you cant go far wrong.....99 percent of supplements are just hyped up just to make money but if someone doesnt eat very good then they are a bit more important.in thailand i take multi vits as dont get enough in my diet as eat thai food too much and should get a bit more protein in.

I disagree on needing protein every few hours. That's excessive and a waste. Most athletes have been hoodwinked into believing they need more protein than they really require as a result of advertising by the protein supplement companies. I can maintain 245 - 250 lbs of bodyweight at 13% bodyfat with 3 square meals a day plus a shake.

Read this study on protein intake for athletes and may get quite a surprise:

protein_study.pdf

couldnt open that file,im shit on computers so if it dont come up after clicking then im afraid thats as far as i get,computer illiterate...surprised i can post on here!!!

as far as i know the body will only assimulate 20 to 30 grams of protein in one sitting hence the need to eat protein regularly to get enough and most studies say you need 1 to 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight a day to increase muscle mass.

it has been like this for many years so am interested in your study as other studies have shown less muscle growth when protein intake been minimal.obviously supplement companies want you to take all there products as much as possible but the big guys have been eating loads to get big for years.

as i said i couldnt open your attachment but as far as i know/see the big boys seem to be eating/ingesting a hel_l of a lot of protein a day still.im a ectomorph and would lose weight on only 3 meals a day sure.....i ate 5 to 7 times a day for years and still didnt put on weight/muscle?????

you doing well maintaining that size/bodyfat on 3 meals,you gotta be a genetic freak ....for sure.maybe you ate loads before to get that size and now you maintain it with 3 meals a day but i still say genetic lucky bastad freak

are you still in your late 20s early 30s as im surprised at your bodyfat if you older than that .

maybe you can let me know webite of study as may find it this way and see what i think........i havent been to any seminars or training course in last few years but all the ones i did gave me my way of thinking and they werent linked to any supplement companies that could profit from them telling it that way!!

surely you believe if you burning a lot of calories and breaking down muscle tissue that you gotta eat more calories and include more protein than average guy?? its gotta be laws of physics or something like that??

If you've got a pdf reader such as Acrobat Reader you should be able to just click on the file and read it.

Basically the study concludes that an athlete needs around 1 gram of fat per kilo of bodyweight. It also concludes that endurance athletes need more protein than bodybuilders.

I've always thought outside the box and never felt comfortable with the amount of protein that is currently being suggested by bodybuilders. I also don't agree with the maximum absorption of 20 to 30 grams per meal. If you take easily digestible protein you should easily be able to absorb double that.

I don't like the idea of consuming 5 - 7 meals per day. Why not just eat bigger meals with more calories? As an ectomorph you shouldn't have a fat problem, and even if you did you could adjust your calories to compensate.

Perhaps one of the reasons you find it difficult to put on bodyweight is because you don't consume enough fat and carbohydrates. It's easy to maintain a higher calorie intake if you eat more fat. Muscle gain is a very slow process and really doesn't require such huge quantities of protein.

i guess i aint got acrobat thingymajig to open it then!!!

im an ectomorph but im an old one so now my metabolism has slowed down and after years of excessive drinking and diet not being as good as it was then even as an ectomorph i can put on fat and have.yes i can lose fat (im not a big fatty) by adjusting my diet but i have to be careful as too low calories and muscle gone quick too!! im into muscle and dont want the superlean look so to be honest having a bit of fat to me is better than seeing the abs and looking skinny allover.

personally i couldnt just eat 3 times a day,i have to eat directly before i go bed or would feel starving in the night and also i eat as soon as i get up!!

i think everyone is different so you have to find what works for yourself when it comes to diet/training but i still think inside the box in that weight trainers need more protein intake than most to both gain and then maintain.....maybe the 300 grams that some real big guys report eating is way over the top but im pretty sure they wouldnt get that big and lean on 3 normal type meals a day !!!

anyway u a mesomorph so body works more efficiently than ecto or endo.......im designed for long distance running but thats not what i want or like.

[Seapok]

I've been trying to track down whey protein (isolate) to use as a protein supplement. There's a shop at Tony's Gym on 3rd Road (north of Pattaya Tai) that sells Thai manufactured whey protein for the ridiculous price of 1,800 per 1kg...and Musashi brand from Australia at 1,900 per 1kg.

I can understand the cost of the high quality imported Musashi product, but the Thai manufactured product is seriously over priced.

I found some American whey in the Big C centre (can't remember the shop name - next to the Body Shop) going for an even more ridiculous 2,800 per 1kg.

There are hundreds of serious bodybuilders in this town, so surely there is a cheaper source somewhere.

Can anyone help?

You might want to ask Girlx, she is into bodybuilding!

[tropo]

i guess i aint got acrobat thingymajig to open it then!!!

im an ectomorph but im an old one so now my metabolism has slowed down and after years of excessive drinking and diet not being as good as it was then even as an ectomorph i can put on fat and have.yes i can lose fat (im not a big fatty) by adjusting my diet but i have to be careful as too low calories and muscle gone quick too!! im into muscle and dont want the superlean look so to be honest having a bit of fat to me is better than seeing the abs and looking skinny allover.

personally i couldnt just eat 3 times a day,i have to eat directly before i go bed or would feel starving in the night and also i eat as soon as i get up!!

i think everyone is different so you have to find what works for yourself when it comes to diet/training but i still think inside the box in that weight trainers need more protein intake than most to both gain and then maintain.....maybe the 300 grams that some real big guys report eating is way over the top but im pretty sure they wouldnt get that big and lean on 3 normal type meals a day !!!

anyway u a mesomorph so body works more efficiently than ecto or endo.......im designed for long distance running but thats not what i want or like.

If you want to put on the most amount of muscle, then you should concentrate on compound movements and lifting heavy.

Check out Bill Starr's 5x5

This is a great program for putting on muscle mass.

Here's a synopsis from the protein study I posted before. This is a very interesting study, so I would highly recommend you download Acrobat Reader and read it:

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a lo-day period of normal protein intake followed by a lo-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein. kg-l. day-‘. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

[tattoodrob]

i guess i aint got acrobat thingymajig to open it then!!!

im an ectomorph but im an old one so now my metabolism has slowed down and after years of excessive drinking and diet not being as good as it was then even as an ectomorph i can put on fat and have.yes i can lose fat (im not a big fatty) by adjusting my diet but i have to be careful as too low calories and muscle gone quick too!! im into muscle and dont want the superlean look so to be honest having a bit of fat to me is better than seeing the abs and looking skinny allover.

personally i couldnt just eat 3 times a day,i have to eat directly before i go bed or would feel starving in the night and also i eat as soon as i get up!!

i think everyone is different so you have to find what works for yourself when it comes to diet/training but i still think inside the box in that weight trainers need more protein intake than most to both gain and then maintain.....maybe the 300 grams that some real big guys report eating is way over the top but im pretty sure they wouldnt get that big and lean on 3 normal type meals a day !!!

anyway u a mesomorph so body works more efficiently than ecto or endo.......im designed for long distance running but thats not what i want or like.

If you want to put on the most amount of muscle, then you should concentrate on compound movements and lifting heavy.

Check out Bill Starr's 5x5

This is a great program for putting on muscle mass.

Here's a synopsis from the protein study I posted before. This is a very interesting study, so I would highly recommend you download Acrobat Reader and read it:

The present study examined the effects of training status (endurance exercise or body building) on nitrogen balance, body composition, and urea excretion during periods of habitual and altered protein intakes. Experiments were performed on six elite bodybuilders, six elite endurance athletes, and six sedentary controls during a lo-day period of normal protein intake followed by a lo-day period of altered protein intake. The nitrogen balance data revealed that bodybuilders required 1.12 times and endurance athletes required 1.67 times more daily protein than sedentary controls. Lean body mass (density) was maintained in bodybuilders consuming 1.05 g protein. kg-l. day-'. Endurance athletes excreted more total daily urea than either bodybuilders or controls. We conclude that bodybuilders during habitual training require a daily protein intake only slightly greater than that for sedentary individuals in the maintenance of lean body mass and that endurance athletes require daily protein intakes greater than either bodybuilders or sedentary individuals to meet the needs of protein catabolism during exercise.

u think i havent tried compound exercises in my 23 years of weight training and i train pretty heavy everytime now but as an ecto there isnt really anything that works apart from taking gear and even then is no great results.....im sure you would find if you took no testosterone for a long period you would suffer some muscle shrinkage and not stay so lean, due to your natural testosterone being lower.

i wonder why all other studies for years tended to agree but now this new study you see says completely different to all independent studies done before. who actually did this study as 12 percent extra protein than a lazy couch potato doesnt sound much .

i still say everyone is so different that they have to try what they can and see what works for them,ive known guys just pop a few steroid pills and blow up and get superb strength gains and ive seen guys go crazy on steroid intake amounts and get little results.

genetics is the big key to everything......why do some people eat healthy,dont drink or smoke and still die of a heart attack while others can be the opposite and live to a hundred.

im too old and past my prime to worry about getting in my best shape but for the effort i have put in ,in the past, then i should be a big mean lean fighting machine instead of a slightly bigger than average guy

[2008bangkok]

If you wanna put on weight then eat mash... i swear by it

[tattoodrob]

If you wanna put on weight then eat mash... i swear by it

beer does the trick too but not the kinda of weight i want thanks

[tropo]

i wonder why all other studies for years tended to agree but now this new study you see says completely different to all independent studies done before. who actually did this study as 12 percent extra protein than a lazy couch potato doesnt sound much .

Where are all these studies you talk about indicating that athletes need ridiculously elevated levels of protein? I don't think you'll find any. It's just a general opinion amongst the bodybuilding community grounded on absolutely no scientific fact.

As I said before, if you read the findings of this study you will be amazed. Just because it doesn't conform to your "in the box" view spouted by the bodybuilding community in parroted fashion for decades does not mean it's not true.

Regarding the "blowing up" of steroid users. When a person blows up it is generally only water and bloat caused by the steroids. It's not quality muscle. Some orals are particularly well known for this effect. When they stop using them they quickly return to their previous state and sometimes smaller.

[spiderman2]

I am a total layman when it comes to these proteins etc..., but for a boxer who needs to lose wight before a fight wouldnt protein shakes be the best thing for him as the amount of calories gained in the food needed to get the right amount of protein would add 1000 of extra calories, when all a boxer getting down to the right weight wants is pure muscle.

For me in LOS im going to need something even if i wasnt training as my diet out there is at best dreadful due to not having any cooking facilities and my dislike of Thai food. I can only eat so much chicken and tuna on its own before getting sick of it and all vegetables as in carrots, brocolli, cauliflower and peas in Pattaya restaurants are stewed to <deleted>.

[soundman]

For me in LOS im going to need something even if i wasnt training as my diet out there is at best dreadful due to not having any cooking facilities and my dislike of Thai food. I can only eat so much chicken and tuna on its own before getting sick of it and all vegetables as in carrots, brocolli, cauliflower and peas in Pattaya restaurants are stewed to <deleted>.

This is one of the reasons I learnt to cook within six months of coming to live in Thailand.

[tropo]

For me in LOS im going to need something even if i wasnt training as my diet out there is at best dreadful due to not having any cooking facilities and my dislike of Thai food. I can only eat so much chicken and tuna on its own before getting sick of it and all vegetables as in carrots, brocolli, cauliflower and peas in Pattaya restaurants are stewed to <deleted>.

I really can't see the problem with not eating Thai food in Pattaya as there are a huge number of international restaurants here. The only problem will be the increase in your weekly food bill. I don't eat a lot of Thai food myself.

I need to keep away from chili and curries and the amount of oil they use on some dishes (fried noodles) is excessive. Some Thai restaurants can make a very nice chicken with oyster sauce dish which is a great protein meal (served with one portion of steamed rice). Chicken with cauliflower, or chicken with cashews done in oyster sauce are some other great non-chili options. When I order fried noodles or Phad Thai or even noodle soup I ask for extra chicken to beef up the protein. You can also take your chances with beef instead of chicken, but it's a crap shoot and I hate tough beef so I usually don't risk it. Pork is another good option in place of chicken if you're that way inclined.

Dairy products are also good value in Thailand and a good source of protein. My favourite desert is yogurt and I also drink a lot of full cream milk. Cheese can be another good bodybuilding food if you're not cutting back on fats and there are plenty of choices in most supermarkets.

Edited November 9, 2008 by tropo

[tattoodrob]

i wonder why all other studies for years tended to agree but now this new study you see says completely different to all independent studies done before. who actually did this study as 12 percent extra protein than a lazy couch potato doesnt sound much .

Where are all these studies you talk about indicating that athletes need ridiculously elevated levels of protein? I don't think you'll find any. It's just a general opinion amongst the bodybuilding community grounded on absolutely no scientific fact.

As I said before, if you read the findings of this study you will be amazed. Just because it doesn't conform to your "in the box" view spouted by the bodybuilding community in parroted fashion for decades does not mean it's not true.

Regarding the "blowing up" of steroid users. When a person blows up it is generally only water and bloat caused by the steroids. It's not quality muscle. Some orals are particularly well known for this effect. When they stop using them they quickly return to their previous state and sometimes smaller.

ok,ok im not gonna go searching for studies all over the net although im sure i could find some...im just not that bothered but i do know that a lot of books and courses say that protein input should be significantly increased. im not saying 200 to 300 grams is a good idea i just said that a lot of large bodybuilders do take that. maybe your study was on non steroid taking bodybuilders and i could understand that maybe 12 % increase is ok but im pretty sure the steroid boys in competition would never get to the size they get just increasing 12% more than an average joe.im also pretty sure that on most steroid product info leaflets that it says it increases protein metabolism therefore get more protein in. i know it doesnt say percent but im sure it means more than another 20g a day. now im no scientist,physician or anything like that but if muscle tissue(which is mainly protein/water) is broken down then i would like to supply it with enough protein to replace it.

its nice to think out the box as you do but im still relying on 50 years of what bodybuilders have been eating and whats worked. do you think they would have got that much muscle just increasing carbs and fat more and leaving protein at 12 %.....some of these guys have nearly doubled there pre training weight. i understand they are holding more water than average and that steroids increase water held in the body but muscle density is definitely increased too as even when they take diuretics they still are left with a lot of quality muscle!!

thru my years of training people i still say everyones different and therefore 12% might work for some but do <deleted> all to others so i would rather increase more than the 12% to make sure and any maybe unnecessary excess will get excreted by the body.....it wont do any real harm and better than risking being in a catabolic state where no muscle will increase.

did your study take into account of different body types ecto.meso.endo , as i would just like to mention that when i was a young ecto i could eat probably double what average joe should with plenty of protein,carbs and fat....trained heavy,no cardio and still only put on a pound or 2 in a year !!!! thats my study and i have years worth of training books and measurements if you would like to browse.this goes against what books say and even every ecto is different to the next and ive tried different training methods,different foods etc over the years....a hard gainer is a hardgainer whatever a book/study says should happen.

out of interest as your an out of box thinker......do you think whey protein powder is better than say just drinking milk protein or is this just hype too

[tropo]

i wonder why all other studies for years tended to agree but now this new study you see says completely different to all independent studies done before. who actually did this study as 12 percent extra protein than a lazy couch potato doesnt sound much .

Where are all these studies you talk about indicating that athletes need ridiculously elevated levels of protein? I don't think you'll find any. It's just a general opinion amongst the bodybuilding community grounded on absolutely no scientific fact.

As I said before, if you read the findings of this study you will be amazed. Just because it doesn't conform to your "in the box" view spouted by the bodybuilding community in parroted fashion for decades does not mean it's not true.

Regarding the "blowing up" of steroid users. When a person blows up it is generally only water and bloat caused by the steroids. It's not quality muscle. Some orals are particularly well known for this effect. When they stop using them they quickly return to their previous state and sometimes smaller.

ok,ok im not gonna go searching for studies all over the net although im sure i could find some...im just not that bothered but i do know that a lot of books and courses say that protein input should be significantly increased. im not saying 200 to 300 grams is a good idea i just said that a lot of large bodybuilders do take that. maybe your study was on non steroid taking bodybuilders and i could understand that maybe 12 % increase is ok but im pretty sure the steroid boys in competition would never get to the size they get just increasing 12% more than an average joe.im also pretty sure that on most steroid product info leaflets that it says it increases protein metabolism therefore get more protein in. i know it doesnt say percent but im sure it means more than another 20g a day. now im no scientist,physician or anything like that but if muscle tissue(which is mainly protein/water) is broken down then i would like to supply it with enough protein to replace it.

its nice to think out the box as you do but im still relying on 50 years of what bodybuilders have been eating and whats worked. do you think they would have got that much muscle just increasing carbs and fat more and leaving protein at 12 %.....some of these guys have nearly doubled there pre training weight. i understand they are holding more water than average and that steroids increase water held in the body but muscle density is definitely increased too as even when they take diuretics they still are left with a lot of quality muscle!!

thru my years of training people i still say everyones different and therefore 12% might work for some but do <deleted> all to others so i would rather increase more than the 12% to make sure and any maybe unnecessary excess will get excreted by the body.....it wont do any real harm and better than risking being in a catabolic state where no muscle will increase.

did your study take into account of different body types ecto.meso.endo , as i would just like to mention that when i was a young ecto i could eat probably double what average joe should with plenty of protein,carbs and fat....trained heavy,no cardio and still only put on a pound or 2 in a year !!!! thats my study and i have years worth of training books and measurements if you would like to browse.this goes against what books say and even every ecto is different to the next and ive tried different training methods,different foods etc over the years....a hard gainer is a hardgainer whatever a book/study says should happen.

out of interest as your an out of box thinker......do you think whey protein powder is better than say just drinking milk protein or is this just hype too

Bodybuilders are some of the most unscientific people around. Most of what they do is copied from those who went before. Very few think for themselves.

I introduced a scientific study to make the point that protein requirements are not as high as many have thought. Of course taking some extra will be better than not getting enough. You tell me there are scientific studies to prove that bodybuilders need high protein but you can't be bothered providing any. I wish you would reconsider because I've never seen any and would love to see them.

As an ectomorph you should have been eating a lot more fat because unlike protein and carbs which produce 4 cal/gram, fat produces 9 cal/gram. Medium protein, high fat and low carbs is not a bad muscle building combination. Fat is not the enemy that many make it out to be. A few top professional bodybuilders eat very high fat diets with almost zero carbs....and get extremely ripped.

Regarding your question about milk protein compared to whey protein. Straight after a workout whey protein could be of advantage because of its fast assimilation. You said you get hungry and wake up if you don't eat before bed....well, that's when more slowly assimilated milk protein would be better as it would digest more slowly. This is provided you can handle the lactose in milk.

[tattoodrob]

i wonder why all other studies for years tended to agree but now this new study you see says completely different to all independent studies done before. who actually did this study as 12 percent extra protein than a lazy couch potato doesnt sound much .

Where are all these studies you talk about indicating that athletes need ridiculously elevated levels of protein? I don't think you'll find any. It's just a general opinion amongst the bodybuilding community grounded on absolutely no scientific fact.

As I said before, if you read the findings of this study you will be amazed. Just because it doesn't conform to your "in the box" view spouted by the bodybuilding community in parroted fashion for decades does not mean it's not true.

Regarding the "blowing up" of steroid users. When a person blows up it is generally only water and bloat caused by the steroids. It's not quality muscle. Some orals are particularly well known for this effect. When they stop using them they quickly return to their previous state and sometimes smaller.

ok,ok im not gonna go searching for studies all over the net although im sure i could find some...im just not that bothered but i do know that a lot of books and courses say that protein input should be significantly increased. im not saying 200 to 300 grams is a good idea i just said that a lot of large bodybuilders do take that. maybe your study was on non steroid taking bodybuilders and i could understand that maybe 12 % increase is ok but im pretty sure the steroid boys in competition would never get to the size they get just increasing 12% more than an average joe.im also pretty sure that on most steroid product info leaflets that it says it increases protein metabolism therefore get more protein in. i know it doesnt say percent but im sure it means more than another 20g a day. now im no scientist,physician or anything like that but if muscle tissue(which is mainly protein/water) is broken down then i would like to supply it with enough protein to replace it.

its nice to think out the box as you do but im still relying on 50 years of what bodybuilders have been eating and whats worked. do you think they would have got that much muscle just increasing carbs and fat more and leaving protein at 12 %.....some of these guys have nearly doubled there pre training weight. i understand they are holding more water than average and that steroids increase water held in the body but muscle density is definitely increased too as even when they take diuretics they still are left with a lot of quality muscle!!

thru my years of training people i still say everyones different and therefore 12% might work for some but do <deleted> all to others so i would rather increase more than the 12% to make sure and any maybe unnecessary excess will get excreted by the body.....it wont do any real harm and better than risking being in a catabolic state where no muscle will increase.

did your study take into account of different body types ecto.meso.endo , as i would just like to mention that when i was a young ecto i could eat probably double what average joe should with plenty of protein,carbs and fat....trained heavy,no cardio and still only put on a pound or 2 in a year !!!! thats my study and i have years worth of training books and measurements if you would like to browse.this goes against what books say and even every ecto is different to the next and ive tried different training methods,different foods etc over the years....a hard gainer is a hardgainer whatever a book/study says should happen.

out of interest as your an out of box thinker......do you think whey protein powder is better than say just drinking milk protein or is this just hype too

Bodybuilders are some of the most unscientific people around. Most of what they do is copied from those who went before. Very few think for themselves.

I introduced a scientific study to make the point that protein requirements are not as high as many have thought. Of course taking some extra will be better than not getting enough. You tell me there are scientific studies to prove that bodybuilders need high protein but you can't be bothered providing any. I wish you would reconsider because I've never seen any and would love to see them.

As an ectomorph you should have been eating a lot more fat because unlike protein and carbs which produce 4 cal/gram, fat produces 9 cal/gram. Medium protein, high fat and low carbs is not a bad muscle building combination. Fat is not the enemy that many make it out to be. A few top professional bodybuilders eat very high fat diets with almost zero carbs....and get extremely ripped.

Regarding your question about milk protein compared to whey protein. Straight after a workout whey protein could be of advantage because of its fast assimilation. You said you get hungry and wake up if you don't eat before bed....well, that's when more slowly assimilated milk protein would be better as it would digest more slowly. This is provided you can handle the lactose in milk.

bodybuilding has always been a minority type activity and frowned upon by most sports establishments etc which is why not so many bodybuilding scientific studies or info out there compared to other sports,but im sure ive seen some in books in the past as ive read tons on the subject of bodybuilding etc. if i have enough time will look in a few old books as might get some reference study names there or do some hunting on the net.even if i dont find any then im still happy to listen to those that have actually put on 6 stone of muscle than any study that says blah blah blah....those that have walked the walk can talk the talk!!!

some doctors still report there are no benefits like increased muscle or power or improved athletic performance when taking steroids where everyone knows who has used them that is BS,so everyone in the bodybuilding scene knows that trial and error is the only way especially as doctors/scientists have no interest in helping a steroid user to gain helpful info.thats why you follow what has been passed down as experience is the guide. if a scientist skinny dude tells you how to get big but has never trained or a big muscle freak tells me what to do then im afraid im gonna listen to the guy thats actually done it!!surely i would be a fool to ignore the wisdom of a man and thousands more who have achieved what i want,or should 1 study put all that experience to shame.

where did you learn how to train,what exercises to do etc.....someone told you ,have you made up your own exercises?....no because people before you have put the experience in to know which ones are best.....there hasnt been hundreds of scientific studies done to prove it etc.

anyway we arguing about a small point,you think a little extra protein will give big results and i think a bit more protein will help more and some big guys would say a lot more protein is needed.if someone is happy with their results from what they do then that is all that matters.

as to eating a high fat diet then we will have to disagree,whilst it gives you lots of calories i dont want to clog up my arteries and have a heart attack,id rather take the cleaner calories(carbs,protein)....and if your study says eating lots of fat is no problem then i will definitely find scientific studies linking eating too much fat to medical conditions.

also i guess you aint an ecto or an endo as endos struggle to lose weight as much as ectos struggle to gain any weight....it aint easy in any way,shape or form.

i have also tried those very high calorie shakes for a month that guarantee some sort of weight gain and eaten loads and still nothing....cost a fortune and was about 2000+ calories a day on top of my already well fed routine. this was in my younger days ,as i said before i can now put on fat as im older with less natural testosterone and diet crap for years