Reasons of change

[webfact]

U.S. Republicans appear all but certain to pass tax legislation

By David Morgan and Amanda Becker

 

The U.S. Capitol building is lit at dusk ahead of planned votes on tax reform in Washington, U.S., December 18, 2017. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Republican-controlled U.S. Congress appeared all but certain to pass sweeping tax legislation this week after two Senate Republican holdouts agreed on Monday to support a tax overhaul backed by President Donald Trump.

 

As the Republicans' self-imposed Friday voting deadline loomed, Senators Susan Collins and Mike Lee each said they had decided to back the legislation hammered out last week among Republicans from the Senate and House of Representatives.

 

"The first major overhaul of our tax code since 1986, this legislation will provide tax relief to working families, encourage the creation of jobs right here in America and spur economic growth that will benefit all Americans," Collins said on the floor of the Senate while announcing her support.

 

The Maine Republican had been undecided on the legislation. Lee had been similarly undecided until the Utah Republican tweeted earlier in the day that he would "proudly" vote for the bill.

 

The House of Representatives, which is also expected to adopt the bill, was due to vote first at around 1:30 p.m. (1830 GMT) on Tuesday, Republican aides said. The Senate vote is expected to follow either later on Tuesday or on Wednesday.

 

"We will get it on the president's desk for him to sign into law before Christmas, as we pledged," predicted No. 2 Senate Republican John Cornyn, who said the Senate would begin 10 hours of debate after receiving the House-approved measure.

 

White House officials said on Monday that Vice President Mike Pence, who would cast the tiebreaking vote in the Senate if necessary, was delaying his trip to Egypt and Israel this week to be in Washington for the vote on the tax plan.

 

"The tax vote is still in very good shape, but we don't want to take any chances," a White House official said.

 

The package of tax cuts for businesses and individuals, if enacted, would overhaul the U.S. tax code for the first time in more than 30 years and give Republicans their first major legislative victory of Trump's presidency.

 

Republicans, who believe they must act to preserve their House and Senate majorities in next year's congressional elections, insist the tax cuts will drive U.S. economic growth higher and create jobs.

 

Democrats, who oppose it, describe the legislation as a giveaway to corporations and wealthy Americans that will add $1.5 trillion to the federal deficit over the next decade while raising taxes on some middle-class taxpayers.

 

OVERCOMING CHALLENGES

 

Lawmakers in the House, where Republicans hold a 239-193 seat majority, are expected to approve the legislation largely along party lines. A smattering of "no" votes is likely from Republican fiscal hawks and lawmakers from New York, New Jersey and California who oppose a provision that would scale back a popular deduction for state and local taxes.

 

Both the House and Senate must approve the measure before Trump can sign it into law.

 

The 100-seat Senate, where Republicans have only a 52-48 majority, proved to be the graveyard for last summer's Republican drive to overturn former Democratic President Barack Obama's healthcare law, when three Republicans opposed the measure.

 

The tax overhaul has also faced challenges. But the spectre of failure appeared to lift on Monday, as Congress closed in on final votes.

 

Senate Republicans can afford to lose no more than two votes if they intend to pass tax legislation, and they are already down one vote.

 

Senator John McCain, who is undergoing treatment for brain cancer, will not be available to support the bill because he is spending time with family in Arizona.

 

With support from Collins and Lee, only Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona remained undecided.

 

A fifth Republican, Senator Thad Cochran of Mississippi, has missed votes for health reasons this year but was expected to be on hand to support the tax bill.

 

Republican Senator Bob Corker, a fiscal hawk, voted against the initial Senate bill but has said he will support final legislation.

 

(Reporting by David Morgan and Amanda Becker; Additional reporting by Jeff Mason; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-19

[kamahele]

Ready to pass tax legislation that  the majority of citizens overwhelmingly dislike and do not want..... 

Edited December 19, 2017 by kamahele

[FreddieRoyle]

2 minutes ago, kamahele said:

Ready to pass tax legislation that  the majority of citizens overwhelmingly dislike and do not want..... 

The free-ride is over. It didn't work. Cities became cesspits of violent crime and depravity, the level of depravity directly proportional to the number of people living on welfare residing in that area. Now it's time to reward the working population, work hard = earn money. Work harder = earn more money. It is a simple concept, but of course not welcomed by the lazy people that chose to stay home or work on the black market while hoovering up honest hard working folks tax money.

 We will see how the new lower tax, and rewarding entrepreneurial effort works out. I expect in short order it will make cities safer, cleaner, drug dependancy and single parent family rates will fall. We will see. Great job again Trump, America is well on the way to being great again. The marxist experiment/dem vote buying/creating a subculture of welfare dependant dem voters thank the Lord is finally over.

[jackh]

26 minutes ago, kamahele said:

Ready to pass tax legislation that  the majority of citizens overwhelmingly dislike and do not want..... 

I sure want it!  MAGA comes through again.

[ilostmypassword]

48 minutes ago, jackh said:

I sure want it!  MAGA comes through again.

What's especially great about it was that last minute 20% deduction for real estate companies. Oddly enough, this just happens to benefit Donald Trump.

Last-Minute Real Estate Tax Break In GOP Bill Will Benefit Trump

President Donald Trump has made tens of millions of dollars of a specific kind of income that could be subjected to a last-minute tax break inserted into the Republicans’ tax legislation released Friday, according to federal records reviewed by International Business Times. The same is true for Tennessee GOP Sen. Bob Corker — a commercial real estate mogul who suddenly switched his vote to “yes” on the tax bill after the provision was added to the legislation. Previously, Corker was the only Republican to vote against the Senate version of the bill.

Trump told a Missouri crowd on Nov. 29 that he would personally take a hit from the GOP tax plan. 

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/last-minute-real-estate-tax-break-gop-bill-will-benefit-trump-2629381

Edited December 19, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[GMajor]

3 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

... I expect in short order it will make cities safer, cleaner, drug dependancy and single parent family rates will fall. 

Man you're definitely into the Season's spirit. All together now: 

He's making a list and checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is comin' to town

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

The free-ride is over. It didn't work. Cities became cesspits of violent crime and depravity, the level of depravity directly proportional to the number of people living on welfare residing in that area. Now it's time to reward the working population, work hard = earn money. Work harder = earn more money. It is a simple concept, but of course not welcomed by the lazy people that chose to stay home or work on the black market while hoovering up honest hard working folks tax money.

 We will see how the new lower tax, and rewarding entrepreneurial effort works out. I expect in short order it will make cities safer, cleaner, drug dependancy and single parent family rates will fall. We will see. Great job again Trump, America is well on the way to being great again. The marxist experiment/dem vote buying/creating a subculture of welfare dependant dem voters thank the Lord is finally over.

I've got good news for you!

 

Teen pregnancy rates are way down in the USA.

US teen birth rate drops to all-time low

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/30/health/teen-birth-rate-prenatal-care-2016/index.html

 

 

Homicide rates are where they were in 1950

FBI: US Homicide Rate at 51-Year Low

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

 

By the way, the steepest decreases in teen pregnany occurred during the Clinton and Obama Administrations. In Homicides the steepest decline occurred during the Clinton Administration. During the George W. term it kind of hovered, then resumed its fall during the Obama administration.

Edited December 19, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Thaidream]

This tax bill is one of the worst  I have ever read- it rewards the already wealthy with the largest tax breaks and provides  the middle class with peanuts and the underpaid working class with nothing at all.  On average, the middle class will see a $2'.50 a day lowering of taxes-  Donald Trump is offering a free cup of coffee every day or a newspaper. Let the good times roll!!!

The wealthy though are going to get some real money back - on average around  $50K per year and big corporations will be able to repatriate their off shore billions at 20%. They won't create any jobs but give huge bonus to their CEO and reward their stockholders while the average worker will continue to make minimum wage. Yes, they will work harder and never get ahead because the system is stacked against them.

If Trump really cared about the middle class he would have increased taxes on the wealthy and returned these added funds back to the middle class and the poor in the form of tax credits of $10K or $20K per year. That  money would definitely be spent on major purchases moving the economy forward quickly. How about an immediate 20% increase in Social Security for elderly Americans struggling to make ends meet. These are people who have paid into the fund for 40 and 50 years.

In addition, if Trump would  lower the defense budget from the highest in the World to a reasonable level these funds could be used to provide universal healthcare to Americans who are dying from a lack of real healthcare or going broke because they can't pay for it.

The majority of working Americans are against this tax bill because they know damn well it is not going to changer their lives or financial burden in any way.

 

I hope the Trump supporters who have again been lied to enjoy their free cup of coffee each day because that is all any of us will ever get while Trump is President. This man is the biggest liar and BS artist that I never want to meet.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

The free-ride is over. It didn't work. Cities became cesspits of violent crime and depravity, the level of depravity directly proportional to the number of people living on welfare residing in that area. Now it's time to reward the working population, work hard = earn money. Work harder = earn more money. It is a simple concept, but of course not welcomed by the lazy people that chose to stay home or work on the black market while hoovering up honest hard working folks tax money.

 We will see how the new lower tax, and rewarding entrepreneurial effort works out. I expect in short order it will make cities safer, cleaner, drug dependancy and single parent family rates will fall. We will see. Great job again Trump, America is well on the way to being great again. The marxist experiment/dem vote buying/creating a subculture of welfare dependant dem voters thank the Lord is finally over.

Some American cities like Chicago are unsafe, etc because of the people that run them, so I don't expect that to change at all.

The Dems don't like the bill, but refused to cooperate in drafting it- the party of no.

I hope it passes as it will probably lead to prosperity for more lower working class Americans.

It is significant that many living in Dem cities complain because they will get less money back to pay the high tax rates in those cities. Up to me they wouldn't get anything back. If they don't like it they can move to a different city/ state.

[hawker9000]

4 hours ago, kamahele said:

Ready to pass tax legislation that  the majority of citizens overwhelmingly dislike and do not want..... 

Rubbish.  According to whom?  YOU??  Yeah, that's what I thought.   'Disliked by wingnuts in high-tax blue states - yeah, baby!!  Subtract THEM (and we're talking states like CA and NY) from the "polls" and then tell me how many are left disapproving.  And of COURSE THEY disapprove - they're losing state & local tax deductions by which they were essentially being SUBSIDIZED by taxpayers in OTHER states where some sanity prevails.  LOL

 

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by hawker9000

[Thaidream]

Read the bill-the entire bill and then decide for yourself- the internet is filled with dozens of sources from both the left, the right and in between providing analysis.

 

The Democrats do not like the bill because they had no input and the bill is seriously flawed.

During the last tax cut of 1986- big business received many loopholes to lower their tax rates and none of it was spent on adding new staff; expansion of plants; or providing existing workers with raises. All monies were spent on CEO;s and upper management as well as stockholders.  That is why there is a tremendous income disparity in America between the wealthy 1% and the other 99%.

 

It amazes me that Trump supporters continue to support a man who is not looking out for your interests; basically robbing the poor and middle class and redistributing to the wealthy. He is lying to you and using his lies and minions to fool you into believing that you are going to be better off. You are going to be worse off as the deficit rises; wages are depressed; and the job expansion will be in the agricultural fields and chicken processing plants paying minimum wage. If you believe Trump- I hope you enjoy working at minimum wage which at the federal level is $7.25 per hour while the company CEOs are compensated  with million dollar bonuses- paid for by you. If this is what you want- God help you!!

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

this legislation will provide tax relief to working families, encourage the creation of jobs right here in America and spur economic growth that will benefit all Americans,"

Silly Americans:

• A USA Today/Suffolk University poll found that 32% of people approved of the bill, while 48% disapproved.
• A Marist University poll found that 52% of Americans think the bill will harm their personal finances, while just 30% of people thought it would help them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-republican-tax-reform-bill-poll-numbers-underwhelm-2017-12

• Senate Republicans’ $1.5 trillion tax cut would not pay for itself including estimated effect of economic growth

Versus the wealthy: Trump himself could save more than $1.1 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/28/us/politics/tax-bill-deficits.html

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Rubbish.  According to whom?  YOU??  Yeah, that's what I thought.   'Disliked by wingnuts in high-tax blue states - yeah, baby!!  Subtract THEM (and we're talking states like CA and NY) from the "polls" and then tell me how many are left disapproving.  And of COURSE THEY disapprove - they're losing state & local tax deductions by which they were essentially being SUBSIDIZED by taxpayers in OTHER states where some sanity prevails.  LOL

 

 

The GOP Tax Cuts Are Even More Unpopular Than Past Tax Hikes

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gop-tax-cuts-are-even-more-unpopular-than-past-tax-hikes/

[Trouble]

12 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Silly Americans:

• A USA Today/Suffolk University poll found that 32% of people approved of the bill, while 48% disapproved.
• A Marist University poll found that 52% of Americans think the bill will harm their personal finances, while just 30% of people thought it would help them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-republican-tax-reform-bill-poll-numbers-underwhelm-2017-12

• Senate Republicans’ $1.5 trillion tax cut would not pay for itself including estimated effect of economic growth

Versus the wealthy: Trump himself could save more than $1.1 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/28/us/politics/tax-bill-deficits.html

Pretty good with the poll statistics, however I would bet that 95% of the people have neither read nor researched for themselves the actual contents of the bill. If you watch MSNBC you are against the tax bill because you have been told it is bad for you and only helps the rich. If you listen to FOX you are for the bill because you have been told it is good for the working class.  Having done a bit or research myself and still unsure of what the new law will bring, I can only wait and see how it all falls out when I file my taxes.  I do know that I will be hurt on the deductions side with the $10,000 limit on SALT but then it looks like the ATM is going away so that might help to.  Every taxpayer will have a different situation and will only know when his/her taxes a filed if they came out ahead or lost in the game.  I would bet that in the end neither the middle class or the rich will gain or loose much. The lower class won't feel a thing. 

[Trouble]

12 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Rubbish.  According to whom?  YOU??  Yeah, that's what I thought.   'Disliked by wingnuts in high-tax blue states - yeah, baby!!  Subtract THEM (and we're talking states like CA and NY) from the "polls" and then tell me how many are left disapproving.  And of COURSE THEY disapprove - they're losing state & local tax deductions by which they were essentially being SUBSIDIZED by taxpayers in OTHER states where some sanity prevails.  LOL

 

 

I am waiting to see how this falls out but I wouldn't be disparaging those in high tax states from being a bit upset about the loss of SALT deductions. Not all people in those states like paying those high taxes. After all, they are unfortunately forced into paying those high costs because their liberal politicians seems to want to provide services to all the illegal immigrants which overpopulate those states. If those states stopped paying for those services, the federal government would end up picking up the tab anyway.  It's a catch-22.  

[gk10002000]

Just get rid of the AMT and I will be happy.  A lot of the other stuff just moves things around, or is temporary. 

[PhonThong]

17 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I've got good news for you!

 

Teen pregnancy rates are way down in the USA.

US teen birth rate drops to all-time low

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/30/health/teen-birth-rate-prenatal-care-2016/index.html

 

 

Homicide rates are where they were in 1950

FBI: US Homicide Rate at 51-Year Low

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

 

By the way, the steepest decreases in teen pregnany occurred during the Clinton and Obama Administrations. In Homicides the steepest decline occurred during the Clinton Administration. During the George W. term it kind of hovered, then resumed its fall during the Obama administration.

So, your saying Clinton and Obama are responsible for lower teen pregnancy rates? How, pray tell did they do that? You are really reaching...

[ilostmypassword]

18 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

So, your saying Clinton and Obama are responsible for lower teen pregnancy rates? How, pray tell did they do that? You are really reaching...

Well as I think you know it was in a response to someone who made the ridiculous claim that Trump's tax bill was somehow going to address these problems. And whose claim rested on the implicit assumption that these were problems that were still raging out of control when it's clear that huge progress has already been made on these fronts..  

But for your benefit, here is Freddie Royle's ridiculous post in full:

"The free-ride is over. It didn't work. Cities became cesspits of violent crime and depravity, the level of depravity directly proportional to the number of people living on welfare residing in that area. Now it's time to reward the working population, work hard = earn money. Work harder = earn more money. It is a simple concept, but of course not welcomed by the lazy people that chose to stay home or work on the black market while hoovering up honest hard working folks tax money.

 We will see how the new lower tax, and rewarding entrepreneurial effort works out. I expect in short order it will make cities safer, cleaner, drug dependancy and single parent family rates will fall. We will see. Great job again Trump, America is well on the way to being great again. The marxist experiment/dem vote buying/creating a subculture of welfare dependant dem voters thank the Lord is finally over."

Edited December 19, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Berkshire]

21 minutes ago, PhonThong said:

So, your saying Clinton and Obama are responsible for lower teen pregnancy rates? How, pray tell did they do that? You are really reaching...

It's like giving Trump credit for the current state of the economy.  We all know it's Obama's economy.

[Scott]

Please stick a little closer to the topic.   I am not sure the homicide rate has much to do with a tax bill that is expected to pass.  

[Srikcir]

5 hours ago, Trouble said:

The lower class won't feel a thing. 

They may in 2018 and the middle class may share their pain certainly beginning in 2019:

• The tax cuts also repeal (in practice) the ACA individual mandate that will result in 4 million losing coverage in 2019 and 13 million losing coverage in 2027 by causing more consumers to become priced out of the market, ie., "lower class" (sic).
• As per the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010, if growth fails to occur to cover the $1.5 trillion debt caused by the tax cuts, deep cuts to certain programs like Medicare, Medicaid will be required and outright elimination of some programs is possible. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2017/12/12/why-big-medicare-and-medicaid-cuts-are-likely/#67086f3e23d8 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-medicare-could-see-a-cut-thanks-to-the-house-tax-bill-2017-11-06

[hawker9000]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

It's like giving Trump credit for the current state of the economy.  We all know it's Obama's economy.

ROFLMAO.  Yeah, sure it is.   hahahahaha

[hawker9000]

15 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

They may in 2018 and the middle class may share their pain certainly beginning in 2019:

• The tax cuts also repeal (in practice) the ACA individual mandate that will result in 4 million losing coverage in 2019 and 13 million losing coverage in 2027 by causing more consumers to become priced out of the market, ie., "lower class" (sic).
• As per the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010, if growth fails to occur to cover the $1.5 trillion debt caused by the tax cuts, deep cuts to certain programs like Medicare, Medicaid will be required and outright elimination of some programs is possible. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2017/12/12/why-big-medicare-and-medicaid-cuts-are-likely/#67086f3e23d8 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-medicare-could-see-a-cut-thanks-to-the-house-tax-bill-2017-11-06

'Will be "required" only if not taken up again by Congress, which such measures routinely are and certainly will continue to be.  'Typical wingnut scaremongering...

 

 

 

[Srikcir]

8 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Typical wingnut scaremongering

Blame Forbes and others for reading the law and applying its consequences.

Congress would have to repeal the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010 if it wants different results.

[hawker9000]

7 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Blame Forbes and others for reading the law and applying its consequences.

Congress would have to repeal the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010 if it wants different results.

When it comes to the budget and tax measures, 'happens all the time. Cherrypicking citations from laws they don't like apart from legislative practice and history is, as is typically the case for wingnuts, only half the story.  There was a whole laundry list of stuff in the "Affordable Care Act" that nobody knew about until after passage, and wingnuts were famously ok with that!  That moron Pelosi declared gleefully she wasn't even going to trouble herself with reading it!!  So please, take your rubbish about "reading the law" and sell it somewhere else. 

 

So, as I said, scaremongering by the usual naysayers.  I'm somewhere deep in the heart of the middle class, and this Tax Plan certainly won't hurt me, though the talking heads are practically tearing their hair out trying to get the middle class into all believing - no, not just "believing", but FEARING - otherwise.  'Course for those in blue states who've gotten addicted to having their socialism subsidized by taxpayers in other states, yeah, some of them will feel some pain.  Boohoo. 

 

[Berkshire]

39 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

ROFLMAO.  Yeah, sure it is.   hahahahaha

Perhaps you can tell me what Trump has done for the economy, since he has yet to pass any major legislation.  The stock market loves these tax cuts, which have yet to be passed into law.  Of course, that really doesn't relate directly to the economy.

[Langsuan Man]

7 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

 

So, as I said, scaremongering by the usual naysayers.

All I can say is that the US taxpayers will have little over a year to see how this effects them and the Republicans should be very afraid

 

The 2018 Mid Term Elections are coming 

[hawker9000]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Perhaps you can tell me what Trump has done for the economy, since he has yet to pass any major legislation.  The stock market loves these tax cuts, which have yet to be passed into law.  Of course, that really doesn't relate directly to the economy.

Oh, now you're killing me with laughter!  "Of course, that really doesn't relate directly to the economy."   Says who, the 'First Grade Teachers' and Berkshire Business and Beer Review'?   ROFL   Obviously you want to throw out the stock market, yet I have to assume you at least dimly recognize that it's a universally recognized leading indicator.  And the economy IS doing GREAT!  Ask the Fed! 

 

Of course, you really don't know the first thing ABOUT the economy.

 

[hawker9000]

5 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

All I can say is that the US taxpayers will have little over a year to see how this effects them and the Republicans should be very afraid

 

The 2018 Mid Term Elections are coming 

Yeah.  We agree.  It's all you can say.

 

LOL ---  complete nonsense.

[isaanbanhou]

6 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Yeah.  We agree.  It's all you can say.

 

LOL ---  complete nonsense.

 I pray the day comes when you have said all you can.  wingnuts, thats the problem,  yea wingnuts.

 

What do you know about the ECONOMY?  do you have an education  in economics or just real strong pro Trump beliefs?

92% of American stocks are owned by the top 20% of income earners, they other 80% of yanks share 8%.  

 

LOL- complete and utter nonsense