Thai police "being kind" in mother of all New Year road carnage "U-Turns"!

[AsianAtHeart]

12 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

The public must be laughing at these so called police force Just goes to show that the cops are to lazy to do their jobs Was out in my car yesterday watching all the clown drivers with big smiles on their faces They prob just got the news the cops backed down again about the helmets Thai smiles everywhere Also here is a bit of irony There was an accident  Happened about 10 minutes before me i guess All the traffic had stopped There was 2 people dead on the road Came off bike Both dead someone told me And the cliche Drum Roll They died of head injuries Oh enough said Give me a beer sick i seeing this sort of carnage  My prediction 30,000 dead this year Hooray Gold medal again

Too bad.  They'd have been safer in the back of a pickup.  When bigger vehicles hit motorcycles, the latter don't fare too well.

[Happyman58]

28 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Too bad.  They'd have been safer in the back of a pickup.  When bigger vehicles hit motorcycles, the latter don't fare too well.

I say bring it on   The more the merrier I am convinced now Thais love Dying and they do it so well Thailand lost more people dead on the roads in 2 years  60,000 than the Americans did in 10 years fighting the Vietnam war 58,000 dead Only thing they both have in common is that are something that never needed to happen

[EVENKEEL]

10 hours ago, farcanell said:

Rear of vehicle, not fitted with seat belts, are not designed or intended for passenger transport.... anywhere.

 

admittedly , here (and in some other countries) the vehicles are used excessively outside manufacturers guidelines... but that doesn’t make it ok.

 

Ask any vehicle manufacturer if it’s ok in their vehicles, and the answer is no, in fact, this is also included with the documents supplied with the vehicle

 

Also, with the wealth of research into this, allowing transport of passengers unsecured in the rear, is disgraceful for any country that wants to have “law” discussed as a part of its constitution

 

And.... without looking, unrestrained passengers are probably already outlawed within the road laws that exist

 

How do you make it through each day without rules and laws to guide you?  Folks have been riding in back of trucks since they rolled off the assembly line.

 

If you have no car, can't afford the bus ticket, or would rather take bus money and spend the bht on the family. Many people work in Bangkok that come from Isaan. If they can hitch a ride in a truck, who are you the visitor to tell them otherwise.

[AsianAtHeart]

6 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I say bring it on   The more the merrier I am convinced now Thais love Dying and they do it so well Thailand lost more people dead on the roads in 2 years  60,000 than the Americans did in 10 years fighting the Vietnam war 58,000 dead Only thing they both have in common is that are something that never needed to happen

The way I see it, two main factors contribute to the road fatalities in Thailand:

 

1) Poor/non-existent etiquette in driving--a result of pure selfishness

2) Alcohol

 

Both of the above are firmly engrained within the culture, making governance of them an enigmatic impossibility.  Laws or no laws, the carnage will continue.  If they don't die in the back of pickups, they will continue to die by whatever mode of transportation replaces it--and in possibly even greater numbers.  Welcome to Thailand!

[oldlakey]

8 hours ago, wazzupnow said:

truhly spoken i love it here inspite the lack of brains of the ruling goverment 

i used to pay 51 % tax and there was not 1 thing better than here( maybe only the driving)

Name and shame, or have they got draconian defamation laws, or pehaps your post was just infantile BS

Come on now dont be shy speak up

[oldlakey]

49 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I say bring it on   The more the merrier I am convinced now Thais love Dying and they do it so well Thailand lost more people dead on the roads in 2 years  60,000 than the Americans did in 10 years fighting the Vietnam war 58,000 dead Only thing they both have in common is that are something that never needed to happen

Look on the bright side the American war is over

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

oh forgot to mention They were not wearing helmets the guy told me after i asked him Gruesome site 

"the cops are to lazy to do their jobs".

not a very accurate  perception....the police simply aren't trained to deal with any aspect  of road safety, It isn't within the parameters of their job description.

As pointed out earlier changing that isn't at present possible.

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, AsianAtHeart said:

The way I see it, two main factors contribute to the road fatalities in Thailand:

 

1) Poor/non-existent etiquette in driving--a result of pure selfishness

2) Alcohol

 

Both of the above are firmly engrained within the culture, making governance of them an enigmatic impossibility.  Laws or no laws, the carnage will continue.  If they don't die in the back of pickups, they will continue to die by whatever mode of transportation replaces it--and in possibly even greater numbers.  Welcome to Thailand!

Your observations are completely incorrect. They seem to be based on a blinkered perception of both road safety and Thai people.

There are no statistics to back up your assertion so you are basing your statement on nothing at all.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, ajarnmarc said:

My first impression on this country upon arriving was it was ran by the people.

I liked not having to look over my shoulder each time I wanted to make a turn where I normally wouldn't be allowed, to park where I could, not where I was required to.

To enjoy a cold beer on the beach,

open for all to see if they wished.

For bars & restaurants to stay open until the customers were gone.

 

As a child I enjoyed riding in the back of my parents vehicle,

safe or not, I enjoyed the open air.

 

When people complain or express their opinions on this forum,

it's often stated that if they don't like it, 

go back to where they came from...yes?

 

I've never made such a statement, 

again let people be who they wish to be,

say what they will...

 

Now let the citizens of this country decide for themselves what they wish, 

how they care to travel; live.

It's their country after all.

 

All we expats can do is enjoy the freedoms which drew us here to begin with, 

and try to protect ourselves with auto cameras; thank goodness for technology, 

auto / health insurance,

and most of all be responsible for ourselves.

Rather than trying to draw a line in the sand,

each time something transpires which we fail to see the logic in, 

or don't necessarily agree with,

it might be better to go with the flow, 

so we can enjoy whatever it is that this country has to offer?

 

After 18 years, I'm still trying to figure out what that is?

For now I know/ think it's better than what my nanny state has to offer, 

so I remain here until something better comes along, 

isn't that all we can do...?

Happy Holiday everyone, 

enjoy.

"My first impression on this country upon arriving was it was ran by the people."

 

Probably the most inaccurate observation on the thread.

Road deaths in Thailand cost the "people" trillions of baht every year

 

[EVENKEEL]

29 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Your observations are completely incorrect. They seem to be based on a blinkered perception of both road safety and Thai people.

There are no statistics to back up your assertion so you are basing your statement on nothing at all.

It could be based on personal experience. Cars passing on blind curves and hills, the list goes on and on. Always expect the unexpected, 100% situational awareness, head on a swivel required.

 

Not everyone requires statistics to have an opinion.

[YetAnother]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

He told Thai Rath that this was not a loophole that would leave leeway for police to profit from the situation.

this is all foolish public spin; the fact he said that indicates that is exactly their underlying thinking

[off road pat]

21 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

 

The population have been taught to crawl, kneel and press their palms together in prayer and deference.

 

That is all the State, whose prime concern is the well being of a particular section of the "Body Politic" (a section blinkered, unimaginative and most of all...self-interested), requires of them.

 

The well being of the "Body Public" is of secondary consideration.  And then only when it may have a bearing upon the well being of that "particular section".

 

The public can do as much damage to itself as it wants.

 

A very different outlook to Western social policy.

 

Didn't you want to get away from the "Nanny" State?

 

 

 

 

 

Mmm,...personally I think you are right in every way !!!...only ?...I like the fact that in my "western social policy country" ?, I have a lot more chances to arrive alive and unharmed if I travel somewhere and we have excellent Ambulances with qualified medical staff and excellent hospitals and healthcare if that would not be the case...

Best regards.

[Bangkok Barry]

23 hours ago, quadperfect said:

So much back peddling .

Kind of the police to back up and let a few hundred more people die this new years. Thats nice of them.

I say let it go .its the thai peoples choice. They dont seem to mind. 

So why should anyone care.

People in the back of a pick up or not wearing a helmet has no effect on my personal sefety.

Let them do there thing.

 

Totally agree. The only people they are endangering are themselves, whether it be in pickups or on bikes. If they want to play Russian Roulette with their life, let them.

[farcanell]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

How do you make it through each day without rules and laws to guide you?  Folks have been riding in back of trucks since they rolled off the assembly line.

 

If you have no car, can't afford the bus ticket, or would rather take bus money and spend the bht on the family. Many people work in Bangkok that come from Isaan. If they can hitch a ride in a truck, who are you the visitor to tell them otherwise.

As long as human beings have lived in a community, they have been bound by the rules of that community.... (perhaps things are different under the rock you call home.) so I have no experierience of having to get through any day, sans rules.... and a lot of them are silly annoyances.... not so the laws of the road (well... occasionally perhaps, esp in thailand)

 

but you go... you little anarchist, you

 

“Folks have been riding in the back of trucks since they rolled off the assembly line”.... probably true, since the laws on road use were reactive... as in... oh sh**, that’s dangerous.... let’s make a law to stop it from happening again, and save lives .... yay ?( like rules about using seatbelts)

 

but then.... just because some idiots out there think it’s ok to ride unrestrained, the auto industry started doing tests themselves.... you know.... crash test dummy tests... which actually....  prove that unrestrained passengers die at a far higher rate.... which is why we have laws

 

but hey... blood on the roads... cool s*** in your mind, I assume, because you appear to eschew the need for law enforcement ( the law is there... even the novel new demerit point system)

 

please do remember that this is a country where the cost of road injury/ death is a staggering social and economic impediment that Thailand must get past for the good of its people.... more deaths, as you seem to approve of, is not a good way forward... hell... thailand is currently being vilified world wide because of this ( worlds worst rating), and you seem keen on maintaining the status quo... well done EVENKEEL, steady as she goes..... ignore the reefs, they won’t do much harm

 

lmao... so regards your second paragraph...... when I had no car or bus money or bicycle or whatever other excuse you name, to enable stupid practices.... I walked.... and yes, I hated it, but I still walked (with no cell phone to play with, either, if you get my drift)

 

and... who am I too have an opinion?      an expat on an expat forum... giving an expat point of view...... a point of view on a topic which may yet impact on me

 

perhaps you are on the wrong forum.

[farcanell]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"the cops are to lazy to do their jobs".

not a very accurate  perception....the police simply aren't trained to deal with any aspect  of road safety, It isn't within the parameters of their job description.

As pointed out earlier changing that isn't at present possible.

Interesting... or rather... disturbing.

 

if the police force is there to uphold laws.... and there are laws in place, why is it that it is outside the parameters of their job description to uphold (enforce) these laws?

 

i won’t argue that they are poorly trained.... this is a common theme (eg... a few hours training and your a lifeguard... or a parasail operator)

[oldlakey]

6 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"the cops are to lazy to do their jobs".

not a very accurate  perception....the police simply aren't trained to deal with any aspect  of road safety, It isn't within the parameters of their job description.

As pointed out earlier changing that isn't at present possible.

Just as a matter of interest, have you ever encountered ANYBODY, ANYWHERE, in the WORLD, who has even a clue about road safety, present company excepted of course

I wont except any of that anecdotal evidence either, 5555555555555

[spidermike007]

Just another example of the police, being weak, passive, indifferent, and foolhardy. This has nothing to do with kind. Kindness does not enter into the equation, at all. This is about doing the right thing, and saving lives. Something the RTP, nor this administration, know anything about. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

As long as human beings have lived in a community, they have been bound by the rules of that community.... (perhaps things are different under the rock you call home.) so I have no experierience of having to get through any day, sans rules.... and a lot of them are silly annoyances.... not so the laws of the road (well... occasionally perhaps, esp in thailand)

 

but you go... you little anarchist, you

 

“Folks have been riding in the back of trucks since they rolled off the assembly line”.... probably true, since the laws on road use were reactive... as in... oh sh**, that’s dangerous.... let’s make a law to stop it from happening again, and save lives .... yay ?( like rules about using seatbelts)

 

but then.... just because some idiots out there think it’s ok to ride unrestrained, the auto industry started doing tests themselves.... you know.... crash test dummy tests... which actually....  prove that unrestrained passengers die at a far higher rate.... which is why we have laws

 

but hey... blood on the roads... cool s*** in your mind, I assume, because you appear to eschew the need for law enforcement ( the law is there... even the novel new demerit point system)

 

please do remember that this is a country where the cost of road injury/ death is a staggering social and economic impediment that Thailand must get past for the good of its people.... more deaths, as you seem to approve of, is not a good way forward... hell... thailand is currently being vilified world wide because of this ( worlds worst rating), and you seem keen on maintaining the status quo... well done EVENKEEL, steady as she goes..... ignore the reefs, they won’t do much harm

 

lmao... so regards your second paragraph...... when I had no car or bus money or bicycle or whatever other excuse you name, to enable stupid practices.... I walked.... and yes, I hated it, but I still walked (with no cell phone to play with, either, if you get my drift)

 

and... who am I too have an opinion?      an expat on an expat forum... giving an expat point of view...... a point of view on a topic which may yet impact on me

 

perhaps you are on the wrong forum.

Well let's see here......I bought my first car at age 15 and have never depended on a bus since. It's in the neighborhood of 500km Bangkok to Isaan.....I don't think walking would quite do it.

 

Reefs are bad don't you know.

 

You dooms dayers got me so shook up I just bought plane tickets for the journey north instead of driving.ahahaa Anyway Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[dallen52]

On 19/12/2017 at 10:27 PM, SunsetT said:

This is a clear example where the law could be and should be EASILY enforced! For f***S sake, how difficult is it/would it be for the police to  come to any  m/cycle taxi stand and tell them if u dont have extra helmets for your passengers tomorrow you will be locked up or shut down or both! It is then up to the passengers if they wear them or not.

Basically because they don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. 

It's known quite openly about the motorcycle taxi rider's paying the monthly dues, so they are left alone and dont get penalised.

Three on a bike, no helmets, parking wherever, setting up camp in whatever locations, creating little shanties, clapping and shouting.

Riding down the pavement, wrong side of the road. 

 

Sit around the taxi stands or facing one, and you can see it without fail.

Every month one of the BIB comes along with his little book and collects his roi bahts...

 

 

[Happyman58]

5 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Basically because they don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. 

It's known quite openly about the motorcycle taxi rider's paying the monthly dues, so they are left alone and dont get penalised.

Three on a bike, no helmets, parking wherever, setting up camp in whatever locations, creating little shanties, clapping and shouting.

Riding down the pavement, wrong side of the road. 

 

Sit around the taxi stands or facing one, and you can see it without fail.

Every month one of the BIB comes along with his little book and collects his roi bahts...

 

 

Its a big goose alright Endless money pit for the cops

[Airbagwill]

18 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Just as a matter of interest, have you ever encountered ANYBODY, ANYWHERE, in the WORLD, who has even a clue about road safety, present company excepted of course

I wont except any of that anecdotal evidence either, 5555555555555

As I used to work in a traffic engineer's department, yes. I'm more used to encountering those who simply don't have an argument but don't reslise it. It's typically characterised in Dunning and Kruger's work.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Airbagwill

[dallen52]

3 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Its a big goose alright Endless money pit for the cops

Makes me think back to my days working in Audit. 

And involvement in billion baht programmes here.

"Who audits the auditors?".

 

Thailand talks about investigation into corruption. 

But the investigators are as corrupt as the corrupt politicians and individuals being investigated.

 

Every level.

Government. 

Police 

Military. 

Infrastructure and building. 

Religion. 

 

They all take a slice. 

Short term gain for long term pain.

Ultimatly paid for by the public.

 

Sadly the public think it is ok for the police to do what THEY do, because of the low salary the police get.

Doing a job they dont want to do themselves. 

Supplemental salary. 

 

I actually saw a fruit vendors bike hauled away yesterday on Klang by some division of the BIB for not paying his fees for the site.

2000 baht later and he is back selling fruit at 20 baht per bag.

It really is disgusting...

 

But when number one cop in Pattaya pays for the position based on its earnings capacity. (Rumoured).

What hope have we got of ever fixing anything here.

 

The land of smiles. 

Nods, wink winks, brown paper envelopes...

 

We have no hope...

 

[Airbagwill]

10 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Makes me think back to my days working in Audit. 

And involvement in billion baht programmes here.

"Who audits the auditors?".

 

Thailand talks about investigation into corruption. 

But the investigators are as corrupt as the corrupt politicians and individuals being investigated.

 

Every level.

Government. 

Police 

Military. 

Infrastructure and building. 

Religion. 

 

They all take a slice. 

Short term gain for long term pain.

Ultimatly paid for by the public.

 

Sadly the public think it is ok for the police to do what THEY do, because of the low salary the police get.

Doing a job they dont want to do themselves. 

Supplemental salary. 

 

I actually saw a fruit vendors bike hauled away yesterday on Klang by some division of the BIB for not paying his fees for the site.

2000 baht later and he is back selling fruit at 20 baht per bag.

It really is disgusting...

 

But when number one cop in Pattaya pays for the position based on its earnings capacity. (Rumoured).

What hope have we got of ever fixing anything here.

 

The land of smiles. 

Nods, wink winks, brown paper envelopes...

 

We have no hope...

 

So what you describe shows that one of the 5 main tenets of road safety... Enforcement is not possible without what amounts to major political and constitutional changes in Thailand.

Those who think that Thailand is "freer" due to lack of laws are completely misguided.

There are 2 kinds of laws used in societies.

The first are laws that protect it's citzens....e.g road safety, consumer and personal rights.

The other kind most frequently used in undemocratic countries are laws which don't protect, they oppress the populace.

These are laws akin to facism...they are draconian and prevent people from doing things..... They use the state's self appointed authority to punish, imprison people or penalize them whilst allowing socially irresponsible behaviour, corruption graft and nepotism to thrive....they restrict political freedoms and human rights, whilst failing to address societal ills. There is no right to behave as you like, there have to be limits, it is how these limits are applies that Thailand fails to properly achieve.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Airbagwill

[MrY]

9 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

As I used to work in a traffic engineer's department, yes. I'm more used to encountering those who simply don't have an argument but don't reslise it. It's typically characterised in Dunning and Kruger's work.

Dunning-Kruger explains a lot of comments herein, as well as the general concept of "Thainess".

[oldlakey]

13 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

As I used to work in a traffic engineer's department, yes. I'm more used to encountering those who simply don't have an argument but don't reslise it. It's typically characterised in Dunning and Kruger's work.

Thank you that explains your fixation

My view is you would be better served by not just repeating it parrot fashion, in thread after thread

 

[Airbagwill]

20 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Thank you that explains your fixation

My view is you would be better served by not just repeating it parrot fashion, in thread after thread

 

Why? Please explain what you mean by parrot fashion? And how the comments based on ....nothing aren't actually parrot fashion.

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

Why? Please explain what you mean by parrot fashion? And how the comments based on ....nothing aren't actually parrot fashion.

Buy yourself an African Grey, then spend some time teaching it about road safety, then you will know what I mean by parrot fashion as regards your other thread contributions as regards Thailands roads

Comments based on nothing, thats what you say, hence no comment

[MrY]

 

15 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

As I used to work in a traffic engineer's department, yes. I'm more used to encountering those who simply don't have an argument but don't reslise it. It's typically characterised in Dunning and Kruger's work.

 

2 hours ago, oldlakey said:

Thank you that explains your fixation

My view is you would be better served by not just repeating it parrot fashion, in thread after thread

 

 

Airbagwill's posts [on this thread] have been some the best laid out arguments so far. It does not matter if he has repeated his thoughts/opinions elsewhere on this forum or not. Voicing out one's own [well formulated] thoughts does not constitute 'parroting' unless one is simply mindlessly repeating the opinions of someone else.

 

On the other hand contributing the following:

 

On 12/20/2017 at 8:29 AM, oldlakey said:

Just as a matter of interest, have you ever encountered ANYBODY, ANYWHERE, in the WORLD, who has even a clue about road safety, present company excepted of course

I wont except any of that anecdotal evidence either, 5555555555555

 

'5555555555555' ??? I can't even...

Edited December 21, 2017 by MrY
to introduce the sneaky suspicion that the poster has deleted something indefensible from the original post or is seriously backpedaling...

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, MrY said:

 

 

 

Airbagwill's posts [on this thread] have been some the best laid out arguments so far. It does not matter if he has repeated his thoughts/opinions elsewhere on this forum or not. Voicing out one's own [well formulated] thoughts does not constitute 'parroting' unless one is simply mindlessly repeating the opinions of someone else.

 

On the other hand contributing the following:

 

 

'5555555555555' ??? I can't even...

OH dear, try opening up your blinkered horizons, or are you in need of an African Grey 5555555555

[MrY]

3 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

OH dear, try opening up your blinkered horizons, or are you in need of an African Grey 5555555555

 

Ehh.. I think I just found one. Can I keep you?

Edited December 21, 2017 by MrY
for the "Capital C"