JJJIIIMMM Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Hi Guys - was hoping someone could help. My wife and i divorce soon. I am going to give her some money, and we will transfer the land we have into company ownership, of which i am the director. I already have a usufruct on the land, and would like this to remain intact if possible. When we go to the land office, and transfer the land from my wife's name to the company name, and both my wife and i agree that the usufruct can remain, will the land office allow this? It will be at Hua Hin Land Office, if that makes a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I would transfer the land first , ensuring the Usufrut goes with it as I'm sure if you get divorced your wife can remove it I think I may be corrected on that if I'm wrong It may also depend on whether you put it on prior to marriage or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 If you have a valid usufruct (i.e. done before marriage) it is a "real" right, meaning it follows the property regardless of people's personal situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJJIIIMMM Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 A lawyer has told me, that if the land is sold to a company the usufruct would not be transferred, but i was not so sure. Surely the usufruct is there to give security and peace of mind to the usufructee, but by simply removing the usufruct if the land is sold on to a company, seems to eradicate any of that security that the usufruct was meant to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 8 hours ago, JJJIIIMMM said: A lawyer has told me, that if the land is sold to a company the usufruct would not be transferred, but i was not so sure. Surely the usufruct is there to give security and peace of mind to the usufructee, but by simply removing the usufruct if the land is sold on to a company, seems to eradicate any of that security that the usufruct was meant to offer. The usufruct is a burden on the land. Your wife has no say over whether it stays or goes. The same goes for a new owner, they are still burdened by the lien for it's lifetime. I see no reason why the usufructee,,,,,,who is the beneficiary of the lien......you......should lose a "real" right just because it's bought by a company. When they buy the title they buy the burden too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaanbanhou Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) The company buys the land with all encumbrances on title. The usufruct is an encumbrance and should remain intact Edited December 20, 2017 by isaanbanhou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickthailand Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 my usurfruct stayed intact when i transferred the land to a company the only way it will be removed if i sign for it or die rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJJIIIMMM Posted December 23, 2017 Author Share Posted December 23, 2017 I got divorced yesterday, and the land transferred to my company, but the usufruct was removed. the lawyer said they insisted on it, at hua hin land office........ one level of security i will miss........ just hope this company is all good Fingers crossed :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 1 minute ago, JJJIIIMMM said: I got divorced yesterday, and the land transferred to my company, but the usufruct was removed. the lawyer said they insisted on it, at hua hin land office........ one level of security i will miss........ just hope this company is all good Fingers crossed :) I'd be very careful Who are the Thai owners of this company ( i'm guessing the law firm themselves ) 51 / 49 % Why would they insist if the previous poster was able to do There has been stories on here about some outfits down that way that did some amazing things So now you have no real control of anything as you only hold 49% of the company & would only have the voting majority over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 1 hour ago, JJJIIIMMM said: I got divorced yesterday, and the land transferred to my company, but the usufruct was removed. the lawyer said they insisted on it, at hua hin land office........ one level of security i will miss........ just hope this company is all good Fingers crossed :) Were you consented in any formal way to sign away your rights of the usufruct. What has apparently happened there is a clear violation of the law, if you did not consent to the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janpharma Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 On 21-12-2017 at 12:46 AM, cheeryble said: The usufruct is a burden on the land. Your wife has no say over whether it stays or goes. The same goes for a new owner, they are still burdened by the lien for it's lifetime. I see no reason why the usufructee,,,,,,who is the beneficiary of the lien......you......should lose a "real" right just because it's bought by a company. When they buy the title they buy the burden too. In case of a divorce, the wife could make the usufruct contestable...this would not be the first case. Be aware. Make sure that this can't happen and have it written down in your divorce act that will be made and signed at the amphur together with 2 witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKr Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 On 12/20/2017 at 4:18 PM, JJJIIIMMM said: A lawyer has told me, that if the land is sold to a company the usufruct would not be transferred, but i was not so sure. Surely the usufruct is there to give security and peace of mind to the usufructee, but by simply removing the usufruct if the land is sold on to a company, seems to eradicate any of that security that the usufruct was meant to offer. I did a transfer from a private person to a limited, and usufruct remained in place. So I guess, your Lawyer is wrong. Also, the usufruct goes with the Land and therefore remains, whoever the owner is, until expiry date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKr Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 hours ago, JJJIIIMMM said: I got divorced yesterday, and the land transferred to my company, but the usufruct was removed. the lawyer said they insisted on it, at hua hin land office........ one level of security i will miss........ just hope this company is all good Fingers crossed :) Supposing that you have a shareholders agreement in place, then just reinstate the usufruct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, KKr said: Supposing that you have a shareholders agreement in place, then just reinstate the usufruct. Agree with this as I forgot to mention & hopefully you hold the majority of voting rights Will be interesting to see if your Lawyer says this is doable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryasimight Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 11:33 AM, rickthailand said: my usurfruct stayed intact when i transferred the land to a company the only way it will be removed if i sign for it or die rick Apparently the latter is not hard to arrange and not too expensive...around 10-20,000 baht in Isaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryasimight Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 1 hour ago, BEVUP said: Agree with this as I forgot to mention & hopefully you hold the majority of voting rights Will be interesting to see if your Lawyer says this is doable I sincerely hope the company is a genuine trading entity and not set up for the sole purpose of owning the land. That in itself is illegal. Don't forget that any agreement made between a husband and wife can become null and void in the event of a divorce. If the land was purchased before marriage and an usufruct in place then you might be ok. If it was purchased after marriage you may have problems, as well as sorting out the rest of the mess of 50% of everything else acquired during the marriage. It's one thing having the company owning the land, but depending on the nature of the divorce, actually using the land or living there may be a very different ball game. You can slice and dice the issue of owning land, usufruct, company etc etc but the fact remains foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. You can gain the right to use it but will never own it. The closest you will ever come is if your wife dies , then you will 'own' the land but have to sell it within 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickthailand Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 14 hours ago, tryasimight said: Apparently the latter is not hard to arrange and not too expensive...around 10-20,000 baht in Isaan. not everybody lives in poor isaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake Up Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Interesting topic. I know two men who went through divorce. Usufruct was great for both to continue living in the house. One ex wife tried to attack the usufruct during the divorce in Khon Kaen for a house my friend built in her name. Her lawyer demanded milllions of baht to stop the attack and settle. His lawyer told him not to pay and the judge ruled the usufruct was valid and barred the ex wife from the house ( she is the owner of the house) or causing him any living issues. He swears by the usufruct and it allowed him to stay in the house until he dies and gives him a protected space from the ex wife and her relatives. Apparently if you do usufruct correctly before marriage (not after marriage) then no one (ex wife, etc...)can dissolve the usufruct or demand it go away according to his Khon Kaen lawyer. You can only waive it if you desire. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeryble Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 Seems to me for a usufruct to be annulled it would require the usufructee's signed agreement with most likely witnesses or at least the witnessing signature of a land office official(s).Did JJJiiimmm sign anything the lawyer gave him without understanding it fully? I’d go a long way to keep a usufruct in place. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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