open company without work permit

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

i heard of an option of establishing a thai company without a work permit (for a foreigner).

in that case, what kind of work can the company owner do?

and does this kind of company ownership allows a business visa

or other kind of visa that will allow to stay in the country for longer time?

cause what's the point of starting a company if you can't stay and manage it, even

if from the distance?

 

[anon789561]

it's complicated and probably more difficult than you heard.

what kind of business, how many thai employees will you have, how much capital do you have(you'll need plenty) many questions to be answered before anyone advise you

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

and does this kind of company ownership allows a business visa or other kind of visa that will allow to stay in the country for longer time?

No. Just owning a company (max 49%) doesn't entitle you to a visa. If you formally work for the company you can get a Non-Immigrant Visa and an extension of stay. Extensions of stay are valid for 1 year at at time. It's rarely worth starting a company to get a visa.

 

4 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

cause what's the point of starting a company if you can't stay and manage it, even if from the distance?

Owning a company and working (managing) for the same company are two separate things.

• You can be a shareholder of company without a WP, but can't be involved in the day to day running.
• You can be a Director of the company without a WP, but can't be involved in the day to day running. A Director that manages (works for) the company needs a WP.
• You can be an employee of the company as long as the job is approved.
• You need 4 Thai employees for every WP issued to a foreigner.

 

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

or other kind of visa that will allow to stay in the country for longer time?

Several options, depending on how long you wish to stay, how much trouble to keep it going, and how much you want to either "invest" or "spend." 

 

I am guessing you are not married to a Thai?  That opens up other options. 

[Maestro]

As has been said, opening a company in the sense of registering a juristic person with the appropriate government agency in Thailand and owning shares in that company does not require a work permit, nor does being a non-executive director of the company and attending board meetings in that capacity.

[khunPer]

On 12/24/2017 at 5:02 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

...what kind of work can the company owner do?

Sign the opening documents, and sign the ongoing annual statements, be a director (board member), attend board meetings and sign meeting reports, and sign like high-level documents; that's about it...

 

Any kind of physical- or lower level work is not allowed, writing a bank deposit slip for the company has been named as example.

 

For a Work Permit a company normally need a shareholder capital of 2 million baht and four Thai employees; there might be exceptions depending of business, and it's requirement for highly skilled workers.

 

On 12/24/2017 at 5:02 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

...what's the point of starting a company if you can't stay and manage it, even

if from the distance?

A foreigner cannot (legally) own more the 49% of the shares in a Thai company limited, that's the point. Talk to an experience business lawyer about possibilities of eventually preferred shares; however, you''ll still need to find 51% Thai shareholders – you can trust, as they own the majority of "your" company, and they may also need to prove they have funds to invest in their shares – and in total a minimum of three shareholders to establish a company limited.

 

On 12/24/2017 at 5:02 AM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

...or other kind of visa that will allow to stay in the country for longer time?

Take a look as this new thread from yesterday "4-Year Professional Visas Get Green Light"...

[edwardflory]

IF you are a AMERICAN citizen, look up the ....Treaty of Amity .... where you can own 100% of the business, be considered a Thai business .....but....

there are still PROTECTED Thai only businesses, and the employment ratio still applies.

[tryasimight]

I might be wrong...often am but.... I seem to recall you can open a branch of an already existing overseas company with some conditions attached. No idea if the 49/51 rule still applies but could be worth checking up on.

[BritTim]

9 hours ago, tryasimight said:

I might be wrong...often am but.... I seem to recall you can open a branch of an already existing overseas company with some conditions attached. No idea if the 49/51 rule still applies but could be worth checking up on.

I have observed two attempts by established companies (one based in Canada, the other in Australia) to open regional offices in Thailand. In both cases (using leading, but straight-laced legal firms) the application was denied. The reason was that the business proposed was of insufficient benefit to Thailand. I suspect that if you want to go the regional office route, you need legal firms with appropriate connections and flexible ethics.

[Kerryd]

A large number of expats open a company for an express purpose that has nothing to do with work permits or visas. By Thai law, a foreigner can not own land in Thailand, nor own a company and in the case of condominiums (for example), foreigners can not own more than 49% of the units in a condo complex. 

 

However, a Thai registered company can have a foreign shareholder/director, as long as that person does not own more than 49% of the shares in that company. The company, being "majority owned" by Thais, is allowed buy land and/or condos (even if 49% of the units are owned by foreigners). 

However, if you are thinking of using a company in order to get a work permit and Non-B (Business) visa, be aware that to qualify the company must employ 4 Thais for each visa being applied for and (big "and") you must be able to provide proof that the 4 people are employed and the proper social taxes have been paid. So if you were looking to use a company (for example) to try and get visas for you and your wife, you would have to be able to prove you have 8 (or more) employees and that you have been paying the taxes.

(Many years ago a Thai friend of mine and I decided to open a bar. I started up a company thinking that would be a required thing. I wasn't looking for a work permit or visa at the time but was told that I could do it as we had enough employees to qualify. However, my friend ran the business like most other local (privately owned) businesses, which is to say, everything was "under the table". No books, no accounting for cash coming in/going out, etc, etc. That was probably one of the main reasons it didn't work out.)

Keep in mind as well that there are yearly fees associated with having a "company". (Whoever sets it up for you will probably handle that for you as well. Even if the company is not actively engaged in any kind of work, you still need to submit an annual balance sheet or face penalties.)

Also keep in mind that, from what I've heard, it's more of a pain in the @$$ to close a company here than it is to start one !
 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

thanks for all your advices and help. i allready know most of  it,  this is the basic info any lawyer gives you when you ask about opening a company / business in thailand. but i was wondering about the point in having a company without WP, it is just a strange option considering that you can't stay in the country for longer periods, and can't do any work, and even be at greater risk of losing your investment because...well...just becuase you invested . investing in thailand seems very risky, as the laws are not clear and changing , each lawyer tells a different story, and than, one small mistake and you can lose it all...i salute to all the big investors in thailand - and i know some big foreign investors who own here big companies and make millions, but still, as second class citizens and in fear of their wife losing it and chop chop...chopping it off...

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

but i was wondering about the point in having a company without WP,

You’re looking at it back to front. The reason we start companies is to make money. No one should open a company just to get a WP.

 

6 hours ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

and even be at greater risk of losing your investment because...well...just becuase you invested . investing in thailand seems very risky, as the laws are not clear and changing

Investing in any business in any country can be risky. Thailand’s laws are crystal clear and not “changing”.

[kurtmartens]

On 12/24/2017 at 3:31 PM, elviajero said:

 

• You need 4 Thai employees for every WP issued to a foreigner.

 

But is this true for an "owner"?  I own 49% and have a WP and we don't have 4 employees.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

On 12/27/2017 at 12:48 PM, kurtmartens said:

But is this true for an "owner"?  I own 49% and have a WP and we don't have 4 employees.

ARE YOU MARRIED ? 

IF YES,  NO NEED FOR 4 WORKERS...OR MAYBE YES...WHO KNOWS

[JackThompson]

51 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

ARE YOU MARRIED ? 

IF YES,  NO NEED FOR 4 WORKERS...OR MAYBE YES...WHO KNOWS

Some labor offices reduce the number of Thai workers to 2, if your Thai-wife is the co-owner of the business with you. 

 

Some report they got away with only one Thai worker, another guy reported getting a WP on a retirement-extension - so basically like everything else, whoever runs the local fiefdom can make up whatever they want - adding or removing whatever rules depending on their whims.

[kurtmartens]

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Some labor offices reduce the number of Thai workers to 2, if your Thai-wife is the co-owner of the business with you. 

 

Some report they got away with only one Thai worker, another guy reported getting a WP on a retirement-extension - so basically like everything else, whoever runs the local fiefdom can make up whatever they want - adding or removing whatever rules depending on their whims.

Your last line probably sums it up.  Its just me and my Thai wife.