6 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I am sorry, but putting your hand on a woman's thigh is not appropriate behavior......if a woman put her hand on my thigh I would be wondering what the hell was going on and what she had in mind. Also patting on the butt is not rape, but not appropriate behavior. In the seventies I lived in a seminary with men and women. One day I patted this woman on the butt. She turned on me and said angrily, "How dare you touch me without my permission." And she was absolutely right, and was decades ahead of her time. The whole PC thing like most things initially is taken to extremes, and like water has to find its own level, which in time it will do. But for too long it has been a man's world, and it was controlled by men......but the times they are a changing, and you either change with it, or you become a dinosaur and get left behind. Your choice.

Couldn't agree more.  'Patting' a woman on the bum is unacceptable behaviour and deserving of an immediate 'put down' response.

 

I've no idea why Matt Damon made such a stupid comment.

10 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I am sorry, but putting your hand on a woman's thigh is not appropriate behavior......if a woman put her hand on my thigh I would be wondering what the hell was going on and what she had in mind. Also patting on the butt is not rape, but not appropriate behavior. In the seventies I lived in a seminary with men and women. One day I patted this woman on the butt. She turned on me and said angrily, "How dare you touch me without my permission." And she was absolutely right, and was decades ahead of her time. The whole PC thing like most things initially is taken to extremes, and like water has to find its own level, which in time it will do. But for too long it has been a man's world, and it was controlled by men......but the times they are a changing, and you either change with it, or you become a dinosaur and get left behind. Your choice.

Agree with what you say, but regardless of what the man haters would like, patting someone on the bum is not the same as rape.

 

I'm happy to say I never patted a woman I didn't know on the bum, but I met some up that were up for more than that, and initiated by them. Made for an interesting train ride anyway. These days, of course, a guy in that situation should get it in writing that she consented, just in case he became famous later and she decided to get her 15 minutes of fame, or make some money.

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Couldn't agree more.  'Patting' a woman on the bum is unacceptable behaviour and deserving of an immediate 'put down' response.

 

I've no idea why Matt Damon made such a stupid comment.

He wasn't making a stupid anything. He was just pointing out that it's all got ridiculous when patting on the bum is conflated with rape.

If the things that are being used to beat up men were actual crimes, IMO any normal guy from my young days would be in court for criminal behaviour now. I don't think young people realise just what it was like back then.

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

He wasn't making a stupid anything. He was just pointing out that it's all got ridiculous when patting on the bum is conflated with rape.

If the things that are being used to beat up men were actual crimes, IMO any normal guy from my young days would be in court for criminal behaviour now. I don't think young people realise just what it was like back then.

You think it's acceptable behaviour to pat a woman (other than gf/wife) on the bum?

25 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I am sorry, but putting your hand on a woman's thigh is not appropriate behavior......if a woman put her hand on my thigh I would be wondering what the hell was going on and what she had in mind. Also patting on the butt is not rape, but not appropriate behavior. In the seventies I lived in a seminary with men and women. One day I patted this woman on the butt. She turned on me and said angrily, "How dare you touch me without my permission." And she was absolutely right, and was decades ahead of her time. The whole PC thing like most things initially is taken to extremes, and like water has to find its own level, which in time it will do. But for too long it has been a man's world, and it was controlled by men......but the times they are a changing, and you either change with it, or you become a dinosaur and get left behind. Your choice.

if a woman put her hand on my thigh I would be wondering what the hell was going on and what she had in mind.

Really? I'd be thinking I might be going to get lucky and be thanking the deity. It's only if a guy had put his hand on my thigh that I might have been worried.

 

Of course times change. Always have and always will.

I've been watching old James Bond movies, and the early ones from the 60s! 

If they made a film like that now, every female actress in Hollywood would be screaming from the rooftops about how sexist they were.

At the time of course, every woman wanted to be a Bond Girl 5555555555555

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You think it's acceptable behaviour to pat a woman (other than gf/wife) on the bum?

I don't, but I don't think it's as bad as rape either. 

With some of those women, they are just using the hysteria to justify their misandry.

 

(other than gf/wife)

I guess doing "barracudas" at parties wasn't your thing then 55555555555555555

We all (or mostly all) know how patronising, sexual comments/inuedo/behaviour etc. were considered completely acceptable and mostly 'laughed off' (amongst themselves.....) by the women involved a few years ago.

 

I've no time for the women chasing frivolous law suits for money, but then again I've no time for men unable to recognise the difference between flirting and patronising sexual comments/touching etc.  Although to be fair, they probably genuinely believe the women enjoy the 'flattery'.  Roll eyes.

On December 29, 2560 BE at 1:21 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Great story. I had a mate a long time ago that used to compliment women he met on the street ( he was a lovely chap- no disrespect or "exploitation" was intended ) and even in the 80s they were taken aback to be complimented by a stranger, but as it was before PC became entrenched they just walked away quickly, and no official complaints made.

These days he'd probably be "helping the police with their enquiries".

And is a certain amount of the issue that if it is a normal guy offering a compliment, he gets burned, but if it is the handsome hunk doing the exact same thing, he has the flirtation returned and gets a date if he wants one? 

 

Here, I think that any show of appreciation of a ladies looks is appreciated - it doesn't mean it is going anywhere, but the compliment is returned with a smile... 

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

We all (or mostly all) know how patronising, sexual comments/inuedo/behaviour etc. were considered completely acceptable and mostly 'laughed off' (amongst themselves.....) by the women involved a few years ago.

 

I've no time for the women chasing frivolous law suits for money, but then again I've no time for men unable to recognise the difference between flirting and patronising sexual comments/touching etc.  Although to be fair, they probably genuinely believe the women enjoy the 'flattery'.  Roll eyes.

When women give men compliments, men love it.

When men give women compliments it is "disgusting", "sexist", "pig behaviour", the end of the world.

Unless of course the guy is James Bond or rich, or a celebrity, or a sports star etc, in which case it's knickers off and into a nearby broom cupboard for a bit of rumpty.

On 12/29/2017 at 1:21 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Great story. I had a mate a long time ago that used to compliment women he met on the street ( he was a lovely chap- no disrespect or "exploitation" was intended ) and even in the 80s they were taken aback to be complimented by a stranger, but as it was before PC became entrenched they just walked away quickly, and no official complaints made.

These days he'd probably be "helping the police with their enquiries".

 

9 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

And is a certain amount of the issue that if it is a normal guy offering a compliment, he gets burned, but if it is the handsome hunk doing the exact same thing, he has the flirtation returned and gets a date if he wants one? 

 

Here, I think that any show of appreciation of a ladies looks is appreciated - it doesn't mean it is going anywhere, but the compliment is returned with a smile... 

I was young in the '80s and (mostly) appreciated genuine compliments, depending on my mood/circumstances.

 

But that's not the point.  The average male offering a compliment is extremely unlikely to find himself in any trouble for inappropriate behaviour!

 

10 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

And is a certain amount of the issue that if it is a normal guy offering a compliment, he gets burned, but if it is the handsome hunk doing the exact same thing, he has the flirtation returned and gets a date if he wants one? 

 

Here, I think that any show of appreciation of a ladies looks is appreciated - it doesn't mean it is going anywhere, but the compliment is returned with a smile... 

Yes, much like in the 80s, a compliment/innendo/comment would always receive a small smile.....

Fifty-two percent of people from racial minorities said that they considered non-consensual hugging to be sexual harassment, compared with 39 percent of whites.

 

  39 % of whites?

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I was young in the '80s and (mostly) appreciated genuine compliments, depending on my mood/circumstances.

 

But that's not the point.  The average male offering a compliment is extremely unlikely to find himself in any trouble for inappropriate behaviour!

 

Doubt it. Used to be so, but the point Matt Damon was making is that the whole situation has got so poisonous that any man offering compliments puts himself at risk, no matter his intentions.

I did not do so since the early days of this century, but that was in the UK and they were extremely PC back then. 

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, much like in the 80s, a compliment/innendo/comment would always receive a small smile.....

IMO he means "here" as in "here in Thailand".

That poll is nothing more than an attempt to take PC to the extreme.

 

 

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Doubt it. Used to be so, but the point Matt Damon was making is that the whole situation has got so poisonous that any man offering compliments puts himself at risk, no matter his intentions.

I did not do so since the early days of this century, but that was in the UK and they were extremely PC back then. 

One example of an ordinary male offering a compliment being sued for sexual harassment?

 

I too 'lived' through the 70's to early years of the century in the UK, and know full well that women during that time put up with a lot of sexual comments/innuendo and the like from patronising males.

 

I was taken by suprise when an extremely annoying male colleague was called in by the top brass and came out genuinely asking whether I thought his constant comments annoying!

 

Of course I did, but he would never understand this.....  And no, I didn't report him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

One example of an ordinary male offering a compliment being sued for sexual harassment?

 

I too 'lived' through the 70's to early years of the century in the UK, and know full well that women during that time put up with a lot of sexual comments/innuendo and the like from patronising males.

 

I was taken by suprise when an extremely annoying male colleague was called in by the top brass and came out genuinely asking whether I thought his constant comments annoying!

 

Of course I did, but he would never understand this.....  And no, I didn't report him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One example of an ordinary male offering a compliment being sued for sexual harassment?

LOL. Never going to happen because no court would hear the case.

What is happening is that ordinary blokes, the nice ones, are going to stop offering compliments, stop being chivalrous, avoid women in work places if possible, put up barriers etc etc etc, and who is going to be regretting? Women of course.

 

By describing males as patronising just goes to show that you don't understand men. Most blokes just want to get to be friends, but they have no idea how to go about it, so they revert to inappropriate methods. It's not as though there are courses on how to get to know women, and guys are just trying to find their way, usually without success.

If women don't like it, they should find a better way than just accusing men of being pigs and antagonising them. Just wait for the backlash- it won't be pleasant for anyone.

I think unwanted purposeful/disrespectful physical contact or continued verbal sexually related speech is wrong but I too think it has all gone too far (however, I wouldn't want some creep patting my wife's arse whilst she is at work). Patting female colleges backsides at work or grabbing their thigh at a table is out-of-line imo but general comments and saying stuff (unless continually directed in a malicious or sexually way) is OK. What, is it the language/thought police next....might as well go full-on Saudi style then, as that seems to be what many of these deranged feminists want. 

 

Of course, the answer, like so much else, is to be found in the middle ground...but that would require moronic men and fascist feminists to get a grip on stuff, good luck with that. 

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

One example of an ordinary male offering a compliment being sued for sexual harassment?

LOL. Never going to happen because no court would hear the case.

What is happening is that ordinary blokes, the nice ones, are going to stop offering compliments, stop being chivalrous, avoid women in work places if possible, put up barriers etc etc etc, and who is going to be regretting? Women of course.

 

By describing males as patronising just goes to show that you don't understand men. Most blokes just want to get to be friends, but they have no idea how to go about it, so they revert to inappropriate methods. It's not as though there are courses on how to get to know women, and guys are just trying to find their way, usually without success.

If women don't like it, they should find a better way than just accusing men of being pigs and antagonising them. Just wait for the backlash- it won't be pleasant for anyone.

I've tried v hard (albeit unsuccessfully) to explain why women frequently don't always regard male 'flattery/comments/''hands on' approach as anything other than at best unwanted, and at worst 'creepy'.

 

But feel free to believe that I'm lying, and that my female views are entirely wrong....

56 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've tried v hard (albeit unsuccessfully) to explain why women frequently don't always regard male 'flattery/comments/''hands on' approach as anything other than at best unwanted, and at worst 'creepy'.

 

But feel free to believe that I'm lying, and that my female views are entirely wrong....

 

No one is saying you are lying or that your views are wrong, only that you appear to have an agenda and are not addressing the issue.

 

Example, Matt Damon makes a totally reasonable statement that there is a difference between rape and patting someone on the dairy aire and how did you respond? I believe it went something like "so you think patting someone on the bum is acceptable?"

 

No, that is not what anyone said, that is what you said to deflect discussing the real issue, which is a serious one.  Sexual harassment is a serious issue. So is bullying in school or the workplace, so is a thousand other problems. At what point do we admit that everyone has crosses to bear, and that trying to change bad behaviors of people through the legal system has its limits.

 

Some people are just <deleted>. We all have to deal with those people, whether male, female, black, white or polka dotted. By all means take the opportunity to educate someone about why a behavior is undesirable, but trying to push it to the level of a crime is an ultimately self defeating policy. Just because something isn't codified as illegal doesn't automatically mean it is condoned.  We in the West seem to have mixed those two concepts up. There are better ways to run a society that trying to legislate stupidity and inconsiderateness.

 

22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've tried v hard (albeit unsuccessfully) to explain why women frequently don't always regard male 'flattery/comments/''hands on' approach as anything other than at best unwanted, and at worst 'creepy'.

 

But feel free to believe that I'm lying, and that my female views are entirely wrong....

I can't see any connection with your reply to what I wrote.

 

I explained that men may use inappropriate actions because they don't know any other way to get to know women, but not meant in a bad way. However, women just attacking all men is not helping the situation.

In my experience, women want men to talk to them, but in practice they don't talk to men either. Expecting men to understand that one woman does not appreciate something that another woman finds acceptable without explaining that is not helping. Men are no more psychic that women.

I am of course referring to nice, but ignorant men, not bad men. It's a pity then, that women, in MY experience, chase the men that treat them badly, as it leads the "good" men to think that that is what women like.

 

Given the frequency that "bum fondling" has been used as an example of bad behaviour, I had to laugh to myself last night when at the NYE celebration I saw a tourist couple indulging in a great deal of consensual bum fondling in front of everyone. Had we not been "educated" recently, a young naive fella might take that as a sign that women enjoy a bit of bum action in public. 555555555555

21 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

So is bullying in school or the workplace, so is a thousand other problems. At what point do we admit that everyone has crosses to bear, and that trying to change bad behaviors of people through the legal system has its limits.

 

 

 

Well said.

I was bullied, by WOMEN, at work for years, but no one jumped up and down about that, but when a man pats a woman ( that he knows ) at work on the backside it's the end of the world.

YET, women continually complain bitterly that it's a "man's world".

On 12/30/2017 at 10:51 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree with what you say, but regardless of what the man haters would like, patting someone on the bum is not the same as rape.

 

I'm happy to say I never patted a woman I didn't know on the bum, but I met some up that were up for more than that, and initiated by them. Made for an interesting train ride anyway. These days, of course, a guy in that situation should get it in writing that she consented, just in case he became famous later and she decided to get her 15 minutes of fame, or make some money.

"In writing" doesn't matter, unless she also states she did not consume any alcohol.  Booze absolves her of rational action. The man is held to high standards no matter how much he has consumed, even if she initiates the action.

This is from a female lawyer i know.

 

90% of the lawsuits are juat an easy way for a woman not to have to work anymore with a nice payout 

Women empowerment, enjoy it when your 40 no kids not married or dating

1 minute ago, Coconutman said:

Women empowerment, enjoy it when your 40 no kids not married or dating

What's so wrong when having a same gender love affair? 

1 minute ago, jenny2017 said:

What's so wrong when having a same gender love affair? 

That is all they will have

How can we as a society empower women to deal with men’s bad behavior directly? That would seem to be the only way to avoid getting the courts and employers from getting involved if we want to lessen the fear and outrage women justifiably feel now. Unless all men start behaving in a courteous and ethical manner - and good luck with that.

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:47 PM, Coconutman said:

That is all they will have

Yes, but they will also have kids and expect males ( taxpayers ) to support them.

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:22 PM, islandguy said:

How can we as a society empower women to deal with men’s bad behavior directly? That would seem to be the only way to avoid getting the courts and employers from getting involved if we want to lessen the fear and outrage women justifiably feel now. Unless all men start behaving in a courteous and ethical manner - and good luck with that.

Good grief, it's not "rocket science". If a woman doesn't like something, open her mouth and say so TO THE GUY- don't just run away and whine to her friends about it and then 30 years later use it to try and ruin him, or get a big payout.

If a manager at work is using his power to exploit women, do something about it.

Honestly, when people say it's exclusively a "man" problem, they make all women victims and weak. So much for "woman power" and women's lib etc etc- is it all just BS?

Hasn't there been hundreds of songs about how women are strong and "will survive" etc etc? Wasn't a certain female candidate recently running on a platform of "women are strong"?

 

IMO, if women want to be taken seriously, get serious and start taking responsibility for themselves, instead of constantly bleating about how all men are evil.

It all kicked off with Weinstein and his casting couch behaviour- well all the women in Hollywood knew about it and none of them did anything about it.