Two dive instructors charged over death of tourist off Phuket

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, sebastion said:

Yeah it does. The fact its secret suggests payments will sort it out.
Ive been told it was 2 farangs just wanted clarification.


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It were 2 foreigners working without workpermit.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Dibbler said:

If it really was a dive before he had received formal training then that is illegal and the instructors should be banned from teaching. All the standard training e.g. PADI starts in the pool with buoyancy practice and rehearsing getting in and out of gear before any open water dive is attempted. But not clear from the article whether diver had previously received any pool instruction ?


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Totally incorrect post.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

The Indian guy was already back on the boat and had his BCD/tank removed.

 

For whatever reason he then fell overboard with his weight belt still on. Being Indian he probably could not swim very well. The Discover Diving Experience does not include instruction in removing the weight beld. The instructor is required to be no further than arm's length away at all times.

 

 

They will take your weights if you hand them up. The problem is that once divers start taking off weights in the water they are also much more likely to drop them.

 

Generally on a big boat with a ladder, divers climb up with all equipment except fins still in place. But allowances are always made for those not strong enough to climb up with their 20 kgs or so of quipment.

 

 

Very good post, thank.

But the 'maximum at an arm's length away' you made up.

[300sd]

Possibly that boat is not the safest type to train new divers! 

I admit never scuba diving, but boat safety I know.

Edited January 5, 2018 by 300sd
change a little

[Dibbler]

Totally incorrect post.

I don't think so. The open water certification process is clearly set out here https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/open-water-diver


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[NamKangMan]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

It were 2 foreigners working without workpermit.

 

And what's the exposure for the company employing them????

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, Dibbler said:

 

I don't think so. The open water certification process is clearly set out here https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/open-water-diver


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Maybe you missed the op, from which you would have learned this is not an open water course?

[Classic Ray]

When I learned in Koh Samui many years ago, I had to do a classroom and pool based course before they let me on a boat. I wonder if this guy also did this?

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Classic Ray said:

When I learned in Koh Samui many years ago, I had to do a classroom and pool based course before they let me on a boat. I wonder if this guy also did this?

Is it really so difficult to read the op and the replies?

He did not do a diving course but a experience, no classroom and pool work required.

[Dibbler]

Is it really so difficult to read the op and the replies?
He did not do a diving course but a experience, no classroom and pool work required.

Then it was illegal as already pointed out before. No responsible instructor would put a tank and BCD on a person who has not received and passed the classroom and pool training. That was never permitted by any dive school in the past so why are you suggesting the standards in the industry have changed? There are not Thai standards for dive safety and different standards for everywhere else in the world!


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[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

Then it was illegal as already pointed out before. No responsible instructor would put a tank and BCD on a person who has not received and passed the classroom and pool training. That was never permitted by any dive school in the past so why are you suggesting the standards in the industry have changed? There are not Thai standards for dive safety and different standards for everywhere else in the world!


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Sorry, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Have a look at the discover scuba diving program.

 

Illegal does not come into the equation btw.

Edited January 6, 2018 by stevenl

[Dibbler]

Sorry, you really don't know what you're talking about.
Have a look at the discover scuba diving program.
 
Illegal does not come into the equation btw.

If you are suggesting that someone who has never dived before can pay to take a dive in open water deeper than 12 m in choppy conditions that far offshore then you've been in Thailand too long already! PADI never intended for a discover scuba course to be run in those particular conditions.


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[scubascuba3]

Then it was illegal as already pointed out before. No responsible instructor would put a tank and BCD on a person who has not received and passed the classroom and pool training. That was never permitted by any dive school in the past so why are you suggesting the standards in the industry have changed? There are not Thai standards for dive safety and different standards for everywhere else in the world!


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Dibbler you are talking drivel, it would help if you had some knowledge and experience

[Coconut Kidd]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 3:09 PM, stevenl said:

No idea if you're a newbie yes or no, but you sure sound like one.

I'll let my mentor "Willy" Wilson know his policies have expired.......along with a tourist.

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

If you are suggesting that someone who has never dived before can pay to take a dive in open water deeper than 12 m in choppy conditions that far offshore then you've been in Thailand too long already! PADI never intended for a discover scuba course to be run in those particular conditions.


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Please don't make up things. I never said or implied what you're saying now.

[12DrinkMore]

15 hours ago, stevenl said:

Very good post, thank.

But the 'maximum at an arm's length away' you made up.

 

OK, the PADI Instructors Manual does not define an exact distance, however the instructor is required to

 

1. Adjust buoyancy as necessary

 

2. Monitor air supply

 

3. Provide a highly supervised experience

 

I don't think it is possible to meet those requirements on the first dive for a Discover Diving experience when diving off a big boat if the instructor is not able to make physical contact in a couple of seconds.

 

Aound Phi Phi  customers are routinely taken to a depth of 6 to 12 metres with speed boats, long tail boats and big boats moving around on the surface.

 

Arm's length is essential to maintain a safe experience.

 

Most instructors will indeed maintain physical contact almost all the time. They are fully aware of how quickly sh1t could happen and the dangers that exist.

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

OK, the PADI Instructors Manual does not define an exact distance, however the instructor is required to

 

1. Adjust buoyancy as necessary

 

2. Monitor air supply

 

3. Provide a highly supervised experience

 

I don't think it is possible to meet those requirements on the first dive for a Discover Diving experience when diving off a big boat if the instructor is not able to make physical contact in a couple of seconds.

 

Aound Phi Phi  customers are routinely taken to a depth of 6 to 12 metres with speed boats, long tail boats and big boats moving around on the surface.

 

Arm's length is essential to maintain a safe experience.

 

Most instructors will indeed maintain physical contact almost all the time. They are fully aware of how quickly sh1t could happen and the dangers that exist.

Agree with you, but you now come with conditions not set earlier, like on the first dive of the DSD. And even then, depending on the students, it can easily doable to give them more freedom after some time into the dive.

[12DrinkMore]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

And even then, depending on the students, it can easily doable to give them more freedom after some time into the dive.

 

That is a judgement call.

 

However, if the customer lost buoyancy control or couldn't equalise or had a sudden panic then the instructor has to be able to react instantly and get everything under control.

 

PADI and the courts will simply not accept the excuse that,

 

"I thought it would be OK to give him more freedom, he was doing so well....until he didn't. I was just three metres away, but he pushed the BCD inflate button".

 

Some instructors conduct hundreds of DSD's in an year. To survive in this you simply have to err on the side of caution. The instructor is totally liable for the customer's safety. If the customers enjoy the experience, then they should go on to complete the Open Water course and receive the complete training.

 

Every year tens of thousands enjoy in safety a DSD. And every year there are fatal accidents.

 

Why take the added risk and for what reward?

 

[wotsdermatter]

On 1/4/2018 at 6:01 PM, snoop1130 said:

Mr Shukla had not taken off his diving weights, which weighed about 4 kilograms, when the incident took place. However, we can confirm that he had taken off his equipment,” he said.

I find it interesting that the police could state categorically that he had not removed his weights but had removed his equipment.  As an experienced diver starting from 1960, when I was in the Royal Navy, I am curious to know what equipment he had on because it is not mentioned.

[wotsdermatter]

On 1/4/2018 at 6:01 PM, snoop1130 said:

Mr Shukla had not taken off his diving weights, which weighed about 4 kilograms, when the incident took place. However, we can confirm that he had taken off his equipment,” he said.

I find it interesting that the police could state categorically that he had not removed his weights but had removed his equipment.  As an experienced diver starting from 1960, when I was in the Royal Navy, I am curious to know what equipment he had on because it is not mentioned.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, wotsdermatter said:

I find it interesting that the police could state categorically that he had not removed his weights but had removed his equipment.  As an experienced diver starting from 1960, when I was in the Royal Navy, I am curious to know what equipment he had on because it is not mentioned.

Fairly straightforward, fins and BCD, probably mask was not on his face as well.