Reasons of change

[webfact]

Israel to approve hundreds of new settler homes in West Bank

 

A Jewish settler youth looks out from a window covered with an Israeli flag hanging on a disputed building where about a hundred hard-line Jewish settlers have hunkered down, in the West Bank city of Hebron July 26, 2017. REUTERS/Amir Cohen

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel will approve construction of hundreds of new settlement homes in the occupied West Bank, Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Tuesday.

 

Settlements are one of the most heated issues in efforts to restart Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, frozen since 2014.

 

Palestinians want the West Bank for a future state, along with East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. Most countries consider as illegal the Israeli settlements built in the territory which Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

 

Israel disputes that its settlements are illegal and says their future should be determined in peace talks with the Palestinians.

 

Israeli authorities were due to approve on Wednesday the construction of 1,285 housing units to be built in 2018 and advance planning for 2,500 others in about 20 different settlements, Lieberman said in a statement.

 

There was no immediate comment from the Palestinian officials. The Palestinians say Israeli settlements in the West bank, a key issue in peace talks, deny them a viable contiguous state.

 

U.S.-brokered peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians collapsed in 2014 and a bid by President Donald Trump's administration to restart them have shown little sign of progress.

 

Asked about the construction plans, a U.S. State Department official said there had been no change in policy on settlements and the Israeli government had made clear that going forward "its intent is to adopt a policy regarding settlement activity that takes the President's concerns into consideration."

 

"The United States welcomes this. As the President has said repeatedly, the administration is firmly committed to pursuing a comprehensive peace between Israelis and Palestinians," the U.S. official said on condition of anonymity.

 

The White House said on Monday U.S. Vice President Mike Pence will visit the region from Jan. 20 to 23, embarking on a tour originally planned for December after Trump recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

 

Pence will hold talks with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, Jordan's King Abdullah and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the White House said.

 

Trump's decision on Jerusalem and announcement in December that the United States would start the process of moving its embassy from Tel Aviv enraged the Palestinians who said the United States can no longer broker peace with Israel.

 

(Reporting by Maayan Lubell and Arshad Mohammed, additional reporting by David Alexander; Editing by William Maclean and Susan Thomas)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-01-10

[Thorgal]

All these illegal settlers homes will be returned to Palestinian families sooner or later...


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[Morch]

10 hours ago, Thorgal said:

All these illegal settlers homes will be returned to Palestinian families sooner or later...


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The usual one liner posturing. "Returned"? Not really, these are new constructions. Handed over is perhaps a better term. As for asserting "all" will - unlikely, as most agreement versions formulated involve territorial exchanges.

[Thorgal]

 

The usual one liner posturing. "Returned"? Not really, these are new constructions. Handed over is perhaps a better term. As for asserting "all" will - unlikely, as most agreement versions formulated involve territorial exchanges.

 

I used “returned” because it includes also to pay back the lease from land confiscation till departure of settlers.

In some cases eviction of Palestinian population happened even long before the land confiscation and should be equalised as such.

 

Territorial exchanges have never been applied in the region so far for thousands of years.

Hopefully, my one line posturing is still popular...

 

 

 

 

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[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

Israel disputes that its settlements are illegal and says their future should be determined in peace talks with the Palestinians.

So, wait till the peace talks ( if they ever happen, and that is doubtful ) have come to a conclusion and an agreement signed before building more settlements.

 

Lies on lies, and IMO consolidating occupation with no intention of ever allowing a Palestinian state, while uttering untruths to attempt to mollify international opinion.

 

Whatever happens from now on is squarely on the heads of the Israeli government.

 

Shame on them.

[Morch]

 

@Thorgal

 

You can use whatever nonsense term you like, wouldn't make your post any more accurate. As for your added drivel - that you announce this or that payment would be made on whichever pretext, doesn't make it so, nor does it make your comments any more informed. Territorial exchanges have been applied in the region - contrary to what you posted. If you imagine that the number of "likes" on a post makes it more valid or truthful, enjoy your fantasy.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So, wait till the peace talks ( if they ever happen, and that is doubtful ) have come to a conclusion and an agreement signed before building more settlements.

 

Lies on lies, and IMO consolidating occupation with no intention of ever allowing a Palestinian state, while uttering untruths to attempt to mollify international opinion.

 

Whatever happens from now on is squarely on the heads of the Israeli government.

 

Shame on them.

 

Pretty much.

 

With a caveat, that this did not come about overnight. Had the Palestinians and their Arab sponsors chosen a different path, they could have negotiated a far superior agreement to anything that the Palestinian might get nowadays.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Pretty much.

 

With a caveat, that this did not come about overnight. Had the Palestinians and their Arab sponsors chosen a different path, they could have negotiated a far superior agreement to anything that the Palestinian might get nowadays.

If only, if only. If wishes were horses etc.

 

Can we deal with the actual situation that exists, which is Israel building facts on the ground and the conflict continuing for ?decades, ?centuries, ?millennia.

It's like the Israelis think if they keep going, the Palestinians will just vanish, somehow.

History will not be kind to Netanyahu, et al.

 

 

[billd766]

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Israel will approve construction of hundreds of new settlement homes in the occupied West Bank, Israeli Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Tuesday.

 

This one phrase says it all and these are the 4 most important words.

 

" the occupied West Bank".

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

This one phrase says it all and these are the 4 most important words.

 

" the occupied West Bank".

It's a fair and widely accepted description. So what else is new?

[Thorgal]

It's a fair and widely accepted description. So what else is new?

You can’t bring in civilians if you invaded or occupied first a territory by your military forces...

Just international law. Nothing else...


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[billd766]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a fair and widely accepted description. So what else is new?

 

It may be a fair description and it may be widely accepted in Israel and perhaps in some parts of the USA but it is not so widely accepted in the rest of the world who have declared through the UN that the settlemnts are in fact illegal.

 

Israel has only one real friend in the UN and that is the USA.

 

However the influence that the USA used to have in the real world is declining.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If only, if only. If wishes were horses etc.

 

Can we deal with the actual situation that exists, which is Israel building facts on the ground and the conflict continuing for ?decades, ?centuries, ?millennia.

It's like the Israelis think if they keep going, the Palestinians will just vanish, somehow.

History will not be kind to Netanyahu, et al.

 

 

 

Well, not really "if only", as there were any number of crossroads in which another path could have been chosen, and the choice was almost uniformly the same - the wrong one. To a degree, this keeps up to this day, which makes it relevant to the situation "at hand".

 

Putting aside fantasies, the only viable way for the Palestinians to improve their situation is via negotiations. Certain posters views about time being on the Palestinians' side do not, I think, revolve around the Palestinians' best interests, but rather on extreme agendas and outcomes. Realistically, the longer things are dragged on, the more "facts on the ground" to eventually contend with or concede.

 

While it's all very well going on about Israel's government policies being both pointless and wrong (we do not have a disagreement there), nothing which the Palestinians engage in is particularly conductive to either altering countering these actions or bears favorably on the political balance within Israel.

 

There will be no ultimate victory, there will be no magic solution. At the end of the day, the options will be either compromise, disappointment or mayhem. I think that the first is the best that the Palestinians can hope for or achieve. But it requires a bold leadership, one able and willing to make the choice for historic, painful compromises.

 

Asking how long this will go on is a pointless question, and implying that change depends on just one side, is off mark, at best. I doubt that any of us got a clear view as to what history will say on any of this, and we'll be long gone anyway. Whenever someone goes on about that, I'm reminded of a bit from Moorcock's The Dancers at the End of Time, referring to the mythical Queen Eleanor of the Red Veldet, who led her victorious armies against the might of United Nations, while riding her Cadillac.... 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

It may be a fair description and it may be widely accepted in Israel and perhaps in some parts of the USA but it is not so widely accepted in the rest of the world who have declared through the UN that the settlemnts are in fact illegal.

 

Israel has only one real friend in the UN and that is the USA.

 

However the influence that the USA used to have in the real world is declining.

Weird response. I said the term was accepted meaning is was DESCRIPTIVE of the situation. I didn't say occupation was acceptable. You seem to have made that up showing your filters and nothing else. You can't take agreement for an answer. 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Jingthing

[cyberfarang]

Tell the whole lot to peace off and put it back under British control.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's a fair and widely accepted description. So what else is new?

"So what else is NEW?"

Lots and lots of Israeli houses on Palestinian land.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Tell the whole lot to peace off and put it back under British control.

It's all the Brits fault anyway, or at least the leadership that ran away from the problem and left the Palestinians in the poo. The greatest betrayal, IMO, of doing the right thing since Pilate washed his hands and allowed the Jewish leadership to crucify the Christ.

Only the beginning of the decline of the once great Empire till now Britain is just ( IMO ) America's poodle and should no longer be described as Great, except in the context of "once upon a time".

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's all the Brits fault anyway, or at least the leadership that ran away from the problem and left the Palestinians in the poo. The greatest betrayal, IMO, of doing the right thing since Pilate washed his hands and allowed the Jewish leadership to crucify the Christ.

Only the beginning of the decline of the once great Empire till now Britain is just ( IMO ) America's poodle and should no longer be described as Great, except in the context of "once upon a time".

Given how that tale from the Christian Bible has been used to justify persecution of the Jews, couldn't you have chosen some other example? One better authenticated by historians?

[billd766]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Weird response. I said the term was accepted meaning is was DESCRIPTIVE of the situation. I didn't say occupation was acceptable. You seem to have made that up showing your filters and nothing else. You can't take agreement for an answer. 

 

 

No, I did not make that up at all. All you have to do is a simple search.

 

It IS widely accepted that building settlements in occupied territory IS illegal and condemnded by the majority of civilised nations in the world.

 

It could be fixed fairly easily by the USA and its government saying stop building settlements and knock down the existing illegal ones or the USA will cut of your funding.

 

That of course will never happen as there are too many lobbyists with too many fingers in too many pies.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

No, I did not make that up at all. All you have to do is a simple search.

 

It IS widely accepted that building settlements in occupied territory IS illegal and condemnded by the majority of civilised nations in the world.

 

It could be fixed fairly easily by the USA and its government saying stop building settlements and knock down the existing illegal ones or the USA will cut of your funding.

 

That of course will never happen as there are too many lobbyists with too many fingers in too many pies.

You totally missed my point.

It seems to me INTENTIONALLY.

I give up. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[quandow]

[F4UCorsair]

On 1/11/2018 at 7:23 AM, cyberfarang said:

Tell the whole lot to peace off and put it back under British control.

 

Then it will really be pharqed up.  Where did the Indians learn their bureaucratic ways?

 

Joking....the countries the British settled/occupied/colonized/had influence were generally left in good shape.

Edited January 11, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Then it will really be pharqed up.  Where did the Indians learn their bureaucratic ways?

 

Joking....the countries the British settled/occupied/colonized/had influence were generally left in good shape.

Some, like Malaya, yes, others like Palestine and Sth Africa not so much. Didn't bring much benefit to the indigenous Australians either, or the Diego Garcians. Completely blew it leaving India too, not to forget that American colony.