Declined 60 days to visit wife - The story contiues

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"But this sounds like a case of, "I cannot meet the financial requirements," so involves faked-financials without the required seasoning."

Disagree. In the past an agent was used, who probably knew an IO somewhere else so went there, easier. Now the friend of the TS wants just a 60 day extension, so no seasoning etc. required.

He cannot meet even the 40K/400K "married to a Thai" number now, which is why I suspect that he used an agent to get around the 65K/800K retirement financials, before.  You could be correct, of course, in that some event might have drained his income/savings in the meantime. 

 

I agree about the "no financials" for the 60-days (why he was applying for this extension, instead of 1-year extension).  The only issue here, is it must be applied where the extension was received, unless he formally changes where he lives.  In Chang Wattana, he would need to file a TM-28 to do officially "move" to Bangkok from Roi Et (even though he has lived in Bangkok the whole time, which makes his application at Roi Et improper).

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Example: enter on a Non-O (single, multi, O-A, married, retirement, whatever), extend a year, extend another year, get 60-days to "visit wife", extend another year, extend another year, ... then request for another "visit wife" will be denied, because one was given already for that Non-O entry at the start of the chain. 

Thank you Jack, I fully understand that explanation.

 

It's possible then the OP's friend was refused because at some point he'd already had an extension,  to his original Non Imm O entry.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Tanoshi

[MaeJoMTB]

9 hours ago, baneko said:

Any thoughts on a way forward would be helpful. Please remember he is on a retirement extension but cant make either the 800.000 for a new extension or 400.000 for a marraige extension.

Time for a trip over to the Thai Consulate in Savannakhet, Laos for a 1 year multi entry 'O' marriage VISA.

Cost is 5,000bht, entitles him to 5x 90 day entries, no further financial evidence required.

Needs passport + copy, original Thai marriage cert + copy, copy of wife's ID card and house book (copies all signed) 

 

It's what all us poor married people do.

Edited January 11, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[tgeezer]

I suspect it is a pyramid-scheme, or it would have been stopped by now.  Cases like the crackdown at Sadao (was 100 to 200 baht per no-hassle entry), indicate when the pyramid didn't reach high enough and/or national-security trumped the scheme.

Why would it be stopped? There is nothing criminal in the various heads of Immigration regions doing their job. The rules and conditions we speak of are implemented to administer the Act.
Retirement, marriage is provided for in Section 4 Article 34 Purposes Allowed for Foreigners to visit the Kingdom and it is the loosest of them all: 15. Other purposes dictated by Ministerial Regulation. It is whatever is decided by the minister or those acting for him. Eg. Financial status is demanded to insure that the person can support himself. The Act forbids work, it doesn’t say what a person’s financial status must be. Similarly seasoning of money, is to make it less likely that money will be borrowed for two days, perhaps the seasoning time was determined to make use of an agent cost effective.
The truth is that visitors are wanted, Nigerian drug dealers, Russian Mafia, African hookers are all openly walking the streets, valued for the benefits they bring economically. The Immigration Office we see is the high end legal side.


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[wgdanson]

Really p...ses me off when some of us 'struggle' to fulfil the monetary requirements in order to stay here with our wives/gfs, but do it legally. And advice is given here as to how to get round the reqirements by corruption method. And they still complain about getting stopped on the road and having to pay tea money to a cop....... a bit like the Thai market seller who complained about getting counterfeit money to pay for a fake T shirt.

Edited January 11, 2018 by wgdanson

[tgeezer]

Really p...ses me off when some of us 'struggle' to fulfil the monetary requirements in order to stay here with our wives/gfs, but do it legally. And advice is given here as to how to get round the reqirements by corruption method. And they still complain about getting stopped on the road and having to pay tea money to a cop....... a bit like the Thai market seller who complained about getting counterfeit money to pay for a fake T shirt.

I couldn’t agree more with you, we do tend toward doing the honourable thing. It goes to what I was saying on another thread, about treating people as individuals and adults. There is nothing to stop you living here with your wife and setting your own budget, it doesn’t cost 65000 Bt a month does it? Sticking to some arbitary figure is not fair especially if funds come from abroad and the exchange rate brings your income down.


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[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, tgeezer said:

I couldn’t agree more with you, we do tend toward doing the honourable thing. It goes to what I was saying on another thread, about treating people as individuals and adults. There is nothing to stop you living here with your wife and setting your own budget, it doesn’t cost 65000 Bt a month does it? Sticking to some arbitary figure is not fair especially if funds come from abroad and the exchange rate brings your income down.


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The 65k a month DOES NOT have to be transferred to Thailand. Just the letter from Consulate needs to say that. Income, ignoring outgoings.

 

[tgeezer]

You still need to show baht so the exchange rate surely still is a factor in the “struggle to fulfil the requirements”.


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[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, tgeezer said:

... Nigerian drug dealers, Russian Mafia, ...

... probably all use agents, yes - it makes sense.  Some good publicity of the arbitrary rules-changes, combined with an explanation of the agent-system could have an impact. 

 

6 hours ago, tgeezer said:

There is nothing criminal in the various heads of Immigration regions doing their job.

But even the widest interpretation of loose-rules, which could be said to allow IOs to change / ignore well-defined and set rules (some in ministerial orders, if not in the Act), would not "legalize" brown envelope passing.  That is illegal, and where the pyramid scheme comes in, so the next guy up the chain doesn't stop the action. 

 

But, a few recordings made and released, and it can all fall apart.  Then comes the finger-pointing on TV and prison-time for those on the take.  Tiny spy tech is cheap nowadays.  Some of the reports here - just a shirt-button camera, and we'd be able to get conversions done where we cannot get them now.  Maybe agents will fall first, then squeel.  Or maybe someone in the uniformed-side of the chain will get bugged.  It's just a matter of when.

 

Arrogant insulting attitudes and runarounds doled out to decent, well-meaning people trying to do the right thing is foolish.  Actions create reactions.  There is a Johnny Cash song, "You can run on, for a long time.  run on, for a long time. .... Sooner or later ... cut you down."

Edited January 11, 2018 by JackThompson

[tgeezer]

I agree up to a point, but change must come from Thais. They are beginning to be affected by Immigration in certain regional offices with the TM 30 and wives being dragged in and interrogated, both of which I thnk will bite Immigration in the ass, because everyone has a voice now.

This post is about a resident of Bangkok asking for something from Bangkok Immigration when his permission to stay was given from a different regional office. The officers in Bangkok can clearly see the situation and are unwillling to get involved.
Change has to take place slowly and it must start from the bottom. There is a tacit agreement in place in society that everyone is free to make their own way in life without interference from others, to change that quickly would need a revolution.


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[baneko]

The strange thing regarding this case is my mate supplied all relevant info up until now.

He always supplied the banking data to prove he did have the 800.000. Its only now he does not have that. Why it was done in Roiet is a mystery to him as well.

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[tgeezer]

The strange thing regarding this case is my mate supplied all relevant info up until now.

He always supplied the banking data to prove he did have the 800.000. Its only now he does not have that. Why it was done in Roiet is a mystery to him as well.

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Gosh that is a pity. If you have the 800,000 in the bank the interest is about 11000 . I might be prepared to pay some of that to an agent for convenience but visiting Immigration can be fun if you don’t ‘get out’ much.



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[ubonjoe]

A off topic post meant to derail the topic has been removed.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, baneko said:

 Why it was done in Roiet is a mystery to him as well.

Probably because the agent could not do it at Chaeng Wattana immigration anymore.

Has he checked his previous extensions to see where they were done?

[baneko]

Probably because the agent could not do it at Chaeng Wattana immigration anymore.
Has he checked his previous extensions to see where they were done?

I will ask him and find out. I have convinced him the best option currently available is a Non O Multi Entry based on Marraige from Savannakhet. He's booked up. This should save him any further problems.

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[Suradit69]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:21 AM, poohy said:

If you are using an agent to facilitate ALWAYS use one in the same immigration area it keeps 90 day reports simple and obviously other extensions.

Even if he uses an agent in Bangkok to facilitate a dodgy extension the agent's "connections" might be with an immigrations office elsewhere or the stamps put in the passport could be totally bogus.

[Russell17au]

On 11/01/2018 at 9:57 AM, JackThompson said:

The way some agents work, is via a particular contact at an Immigration office.  It is likely that the "cut of the fee" demanded by the corrupt IO in Roi Et is lower than he could negotiate from a corrupt IO at Chang Wattana.

 

If I were him, I would avoid being part of this criminal/corruption chain.  Since he is married to a Thai, he has a fairly easy way to do this - get a Non-O Multi in Savannakhet based on marriage (no financials required), register his location in Bangkok (TM-28), and do the Visa-runs. 

 

Visa runs to the Myanmar border from Bangkok are fairly quick, and only 960 Baht for the out/in, plus bus-cost to the border area, so would also save him considerable money vs Agent-fees.  Since he doesn't have the 40K/mo or 400K in the bank, it would seem this would be a good option for him.

 

Also being done in Roi-Et, almost certainly.  He would need to start doing them at Bangkok, if he officially moves there (TM-28).

Sorry but financials are required to change the Non-O from a retirement to a marriage extension, I have just done this. The financials for a retirement are 800,000baht in a Thai bank account or an income of 65,000baht per month or a combination of both, for the extension based on marriage you require 400,000baht in a Thai bank or an income of 40,000baht per month (there is no combination of bank and income for a marriage extension)

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Sorry but financials are required to change the Non-O from a retirement to a marriage extension, I have just done this. The financials for a retirement are 800,000baht in a Thai bank account or an income of 65,000baht per month or a combination of both, for the extension based on marriage you require 400,000baht in a Thai bank or an income of 40,000baht per month (there is no combination of bank and income for a marriage extension)

I was suggesting a Non-O Multiple-Entry Visa from Savannakhet as the solution - no financials necessary.

 

You are correct about financials for the marriage-based and retirement-based extensions.

[Russell17au]

Actually I think your friend is leaving his run a bit late to be able to achieve anything inside Thailand as he would have had to apply around Christmas for his change from retirement to marriage extension as it takes between 4 and 5 weeks for approval so I think his only option now is to leave Thailand and go and apply for a new 90 day Non-O visa. To me the easiest thing would have been to just do a TM.28 and a TM.30 and lodge them at BKK where he lives, that way it would have been sorted long ago

Edited January 13, 2018 by Russell17au

[steve187]

57 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Actually I think your friend is leaving his run a bit late to be able to achieve anything inside Thailand as he would have had to apply around Christmas for his change from retirement to marriage extension as it takes between 4 and 5 weeks for approval so I think his only option now is to leave Thailand and go and apply for a new 90 day Non-O visa. To me the easiest thing would have been to just do a TM.28 and a TM.30 and lodge them at BKK where he lives, that way it would have been sorted long ago

can apply on the last day, not recommended but can be done.

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, steve187 said:

can apply on the last day, not recommended but can be done.

Then you also have extra documents to lodge to be able to stay in the country while your application is being considered and there is no guarantee that you application for temporary stay while being considered would be approved

[steve187]

3 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Then you also have extra documents to lodge to be able to stay in the country while your application is being considered and there is no guarantee that you application for temporary stay while being considered would be approved

no for a 'marriage' yearly extension, they will give a 30 day under consideration stamp in your passport, so you are covered, as long as you have all the boxes ticked your ok, that's why i said not recommended but possible.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

no for a 'marriage' yearly extension, they will give a 30 day under consideration stamp in your passport, so you are covered, as long as you have all the boxes ticked your ok, that's why i said not recommended but possible.

I was told by immigration at Khon Kaen to make sure that I did my change of extension from retirement to marriage at least 30 days before my visa expired or I would have to leave the country and apply for a new 90 day visa.

[jimster]

On 1/11/2018 at 8:35 AM, ubonjoe said:

The 60 day extension can be obtained for any type of entry or extension of stay.

It is certainly not restrict to non-o visa entries.

I was refused a 60-day extension on a non-b multi entry visa. Also at Bangkok. Was told that I would need to re-enter on a non-O (or even a visa-exempt). I will be heading to Laos to get a non-O multi entry sooner than I was originally expecting but so goes.

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Russell17au said:

I was told by immigration at Khon Kaen to make sure that I did my change of extension from retirement to marriage at least 30 days before my visa expired or I would have to leave the country and apply for a new 90 day visa.

They may have been trying to deter you from making the switch. Immigration offices hate processing extensions on the basis of marriage because it involves them in extra effort. There is no rule that says you must apply for a marriage extension with 30 days left on your existing permission to stay.

[baneko]

Even if he uses an agent in Bangkok to facilitate a dodgy extension the agent's "connections" might be with an immigrations office elsewhere or the stamps put in the passport could be totally bogus.

I dont beleive at the time he was trying to do anything dodgy. As said before up until now he supplied all relevant paperwork. This included the 800.000 in a Thai bank account.

He basically could not be bothered to go to immigration so got an agency to do it. He has been to the agency already to complain but she has made her money already. She wont be worried.

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[baneko]

Actually I think your friend is leaving his run a bit late to be able to achieve anything inside Thailand as he would have had to apply around Christmas for his change from retirement to marriage extension as it takes between 4 and 5 weeks for approval so I think his only option now is to leave Thailand and go and apply for a new 90 day Non-O visa. To me the easiest thing would have been to just do a TM.28 and a TM.30 and lodge them at BKK where he lives, that way it would have been sorted long ago

He's going to Savanakhet for a Non O Based on Marraige Multi Entry.

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[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, baneko said:

 

He's going to Savanakhet for a Non O Based on Marraige Multi Entry.

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To save possible time, travel and money, if he uses that Visa correctly, he could stay for almost 17 months, with only 3 border crossings before renewing it again.

[baneko]

To save possible time, travel and money, if he uses that Visa correctly, he could stay for almost 17 months, with only 3 border crossings before renewing it again.

I have explained this to him. As you said this will save him some cash.

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[Russell17au]

22 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I was suggesting a Non-O Multiple-Entry Visa from Savannakhet as the solution - no financials necessary.

 

You are correct about financials for the marriage-based and retirement-based extensions.

When did they do away with the financials?

You must still supply financials for a 90 day Non-Immigrant "O" Visa application.

This is the requirement from Thai immigration for a 90 day Non-Immigant Visa "O" based on marriage

NON-IMMIGRANT VISA-O (THAI SPOUSE)

 Non-Immigrant Visa-O may be granted to applicants who are lawfully married to a Thai citizen.

Types and Validity:

• Single-Entry Non-Immigrant Visa-O: 90 days after the date of application. Visa holders may contact the Immigration Bureau of Thailand, after entering Thailand, for the extension of stay and re-entry permit.
• Multiple-Entry Non-Immigrant Visa-O: 1 year after the date of application.

Required documents:

1. Visa Application form(s) and photograph(s): Completed and signed Visa Application form and recent photograph(s) (size 3.5x4.5 cm). Most applicants require to present 1 Visa Application form and 1 photograph, except nationals of the following countries:

- 2 application forms and 2 photographs: Nigeria, All applicants from Africa Continent

- 3 application forms and 3 photographs: Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Egypt, India, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Nepal, Pakistan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen.

- 4 application forms and 4 photographs: China, Iran and North Korea. 

2. Passport (valid for no less than 6 months)

3. Copy of Marriage Certificate, and Passport and Identity Card of the Applicant’s Thai spouse
(Copies of documents must be signed by the Thai Spouse)

4. A Letter from the Applicant’s Thai spouse 

5. Bank statement (At least 400,000 Baht)

6. Application fee