Air Force puts off today’s ceremony to receive two Korean trainer jets

[webfact]

Air Force puts off today’s ceremony to receive two Korean trainer jets

By Thai PBS

 

 

The Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) has announced the postponement of the ceremony to receive the first two of a fleet of 12 T-50TH Golden Eagle fighter training aircraft it bought from Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) indefinitely after it was notified by the Korean manufacturer that the trainer jets need more checks.

 

The ceremony was earlier scheduled to be held at the Takhli airbase in Nakhon Sawan province on Friday (Jan 12) to receive the two aircraft and the two RTAF pilots who have finished training with the aircraft.

 

According to the RTAF’s statement, the KAI has notified that while the two aircraft were on the flight to Thailand on Jan 8, the pilots unavoidably flied into extreme turbulent weather forcing them to make landing at Kuantan airport in Malaysia.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/air-force-puts-off-todays-ceremony-receive-two-korean-trainer-jets/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-01-12

[tracker1]

That's a bit of a worry buying fair weather fighter trainers!

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

the pilots unavoidably flied into extreme turbulent weather

flew?

 

Another linguistic gem from "the broadcaster you can trust"...

[worgeordie]

I hope they have not paid for them yet, seem knackered before they even take

delivery of the aircraft,more rubbish for the armed forces,never mind the quality,feel the width.

regards worgeordie

[colinneil]

Are these planes supposed to be new?

Or are they again buying another countries cast offs.

Something seriously wrong when the big show off ceremony is cancelled because the aircraft are not fit for purpose.

Edited January 12, 2018 by colinneil

[Darcula]

Flying from Korea to Thailand, it's always good to take the scenic route over Malaysia. Especially, with short-range light fighter aircraft.

[jayboy]

13 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I hope they have not paid for them yet, seem knackered before they even take

delivery of the aircraft,more rubbish for the armed forces,never mind the quality,feel the width.

regards worgeordie

You do not seem to understand the procurement rationale of the Thai armed forces.Unlike other armed forces in other countries the objective is not to procure the most cost effective equipment to serve the military requirements of the country.Cynics have sometimes observed that the Thai armed forces pay up to double the price of hardware that other countries have paid.This is a vile slander on the Thai military that serves the flag so devotedly, even though Thailand doesn't have any current or prospective external enemies.The strategic objective for procurement is to counterbalance the disgracefully low wages of senior officers in Thailand, and who could possibly object to that? Have you not noticed the cost of living and its impact on acquiring a few miserable Bt 1 mill plus timepieces? So only ingrates will object.

[worgeordie]

3 minutes ago, jayboy said:

You do not seem to understand the procurement rationale of the Thai armed forces.Unlike other armed forces in other countries the objective is not to procure the most cost effective equipment to serve the military requirements of the country.Cynics have sometimes observed that the Thai armed forces pay up to double the price of hardware that other countries have paid.This is a vile slander on the Thai military that serves the flag so devotedly, even though Thailand doesn't have any current or prospective external enemies.The strategic objective for procurement is to counterbalance the disgracefully low wages of senior officers in Thailand, and who could possibly object to that? Have you not noticed the cost of living and its impact on acquiring a few miserable Bt 1 mill plus timepieces? So only ingrates will object.

I understand perfectly,it's not the quality,or the suitability for the job, 

it's who pays the biggest "commissions" as they like to call it.you just

have to look at a few past purchases, bomb detectors,the blimp,the

only aircraft carrier in the World without aircraft,that stays docked,

most of the time,Chinese tanks that developed cracks,the list goes

on and on.

regards worgeordie

[Ossy]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

 . . . the pilots unavoidably flied into extreme turbulent weather forcing them to make landing at Kuantan airport in Malaysia.

Let's just hope that if and when the RTAF - whose pilots have trained in T-50TH Golden Eagle fighter training aircraft that don't like turbulent weather - has to take to the skies in anger, our guys don't encounter turbulence. But, if it came to finding a good excuse to duck the dog fight, they couldn't find a better one . . . 'bumpy weather, capm', my god!

[JAG]

If/when they do arrive via Malaya, does that mean that they will be impounded by customs and parked up behind those lime green fire engines an blue buses?

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

flew?

 

Another linguistic gem from "the broadcaster you can trust"...

Quite correct. Flied applies to cooking rice with oil.

[ZeVonderBearz]

I wonder how many protesters could be taken out in one go with one of these bad boys. 

[ratcatcher]

28 minutes ago, ZeVonderBearz said:

I wonder how many protesters could be taken out in one go with one of these bad boys. 

These are trainers, but since you ask ,I'm sure that with a well aimed napalm drop the casualties could be enormous.

[davehowden]

Clearly chosen for its maintenance record.

Accidents and incidents

• On 15 November 2012, a T-50B of the South Korean Air Force Black Eagles aerobatic team crashed shortly after takeoff, killing the sole pilot on board. The cause of the crash was due to faulty maintenance.^[165]
• On 28 August 2013, a T-50 of the South Korean Air Force crashed during a training mission near Kwangju city, killing both pilots on board. Investigation results revealed that the pilot deaths resulted from failing to eject at a sufficient altitude, while the crash itself was caused by faulty maintenance.^[166]
• On 20 December 2015, an Indonesian Air Force T-50i Golden Eagle crashed while performing a flight demonstration during an airshow at Adisutjipto Air base in Yogyakarta, killing its two pilots^[167][168] caused by poor maintenance and pilot error.^[169]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I understand perfectly,it's not the quality,or the suitability for the job, 

it's who pays the biggest "commissions" as they like to call it.you just

have to look at a few past purchases, bomb detectors,the blimp,the

only aircraft carrier in the World without aircraft,that stays docked,

most of the time,Chinese tanks that developed cracks,the list goes

on and on.

regards worgeordie

 

It wasn't Chinese tanks it was American tanks, the Cadillac Gage Stingray:

 

"The Stingray suffered its own complications. After roughly five years of service, around half of the Stingrays had turret and hull armor cracks. These issues led to accusations of the military purchasing "untested prototypes" and the corruption that allowed such a trade.

Cadillac Gage sent a team to Thailand to investigate. The results were unexpected. The reason for the cracks was that the army had been running illegal "races" with the vehicles with each crew competing for the highest jump they could achieve. The highest jump was discovered to be over two meters! The investigators directly linked the cracks to this "performance", but in the end Cadillac Gage offered to repair all the vehicles for free, a deal which the Thai military gleefully accepted."

 

Thailand bought some Chinese tanks, but not because they thought they were any good:

 

"Thailand did buy other armored vehicles as well, most notably approximately 100 Chinese Type 69 MBTs. However, they were not bought for their qualities (the tank was obsolete by 1987), but for political reasons - in exchange for a cessation of Chinese support for Thai Maoist rebels. The price agreed for the Chinese tanks was very low, but, unfortunately, so was their quality and not a single Chinese vehicle was in running condition by 1997, making the Thai press question any further arms deals with China."

 

Sorry to repeat myself (this is the second time I have posted this info in response to your misinformation).

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by Enoon

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, ratcatcher said:

These are trainers, but since you ask ,I'm sure that with a well aimed napalm drop the casualties could be enormous.

 

That is a possibility as, unfortunately, Thailand is not one of the countries that has ratified the convention that makes its use against civilians a war crime.

 

United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW)

List of parties to the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons ...

 

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

Come to think of it, has any military procurement been without problem. Just how robust and comprehensive is the procurement process. Seem a lot of tax payers money are wasted with a long list of poor buys over just the last decade. 

[wakeupplease]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Come to think of it, has any military procurement been without problem. Just how robust and comprehensive is the procurement process. Seem a lot of tax payers money are wasted with a long list of poor buys over just the last decade. 

Tax payers money wasted Eric? No the kickbacks are very much appreciated by the generals, that's how they buy those expensive watches.

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

It wasn't Chinese tanks it was American tanks, the Cadillac Gage Stingray:

 

"The Stingray suffered its own complications. After roughly five years of service, around half of the Stingrays had turret and hull armor cracks. These issues led to accusations of the military purchasing "untested prototypes" and the corruption that allowed such a trade.

Cadillac Gage sent a team to Thailand to investigate. The results were unexpected. The reason for the cracks was that the army had been running illegal "races" with the vehicles with each crew competing for the highest jump they could achieve. The highest jump was discovered to be over two meters! The investigators directly linked the cracks to this "performance", but in the end Cadillac Gage offered to repair all the vehicles for free, a deal which the Thai military gleefully accepted."

 

Thailand bought some Chinese tanks, but not because they thought they were any good:

 

"Thailand did buy other armored vehicles as well, most notably approximately 100 Chinese Type 69 MBTs. However, they were not bought for their qualities (the tank was obsolete by 1987), but for political reasons - in exchange for a cessation of Chinese support for Thai Maoist rebels. The price agreed for the Chinese tanks was very low, but, unfortunately, so was their quality and not a single Chinese vehicle was in running condition by 1997, making the Thai press question any further arms deals with China."

 

Sorry to repeat myself (this is the second time I have posted this info in response to your misinformation).

 

 

 

"Thailand did buy other armored vehicles as well, most notably approximately 100 Chinese Type 69 MBTs. However, they were not bought for their qualities," these also developed cracks,and a host of other problems, which just goes to what i said Thailand likes buying

crap,

No need to repeat yourself, it's all down in black and white,Thailand did buy crap Chinese tanks,what misinformation do you refer to ?

regards worgeordie

[bangrak]

Flying from Korea, on their way to Thailand, and landing in Malaysia because of adverse weather conditions, it all makes sense, no doubt, but not to me, call my disease 'geography'...

[bangrak]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Come to think of it, has any military procurement been without problem. Just how robust and comprehensive is the procurement process. Seem a lot of tax payers money are wasted with a long list of poor buys over just the last decade. 

Damn right you are, Khun Eric, and how did it go in the years the Shin family you protect was running the show here? Any different? Couldn't they, with all their power, money, and public support, have changed a thing or two about army procurement? Even getting their share on the deal (what they didn't, is it?), but providing decent quality equipment? Erm... Silence is golden, even for you!

[bangrak]

4 hours ago, davehowden said:

Clearly chosen for its maintenance record.

Accidents and incidents

• On 15 November 2012, a T-50B of the South Korean Air Force Black Eagles aerobatic team crashed shortly after takeoff, killing the sole pilot on board. The cause of the crash was due to faulty maintenance.^[165]
• On 28 August 2013, a T-50 of the South Korean Air Force crashed during a training mission near Kwangju city, killing both pilots on board. Investigation results revealed that the pilot deaths resulted from failing to eject at a sufficient altitude, while the crash itself was caused by faulty maintenance.^[166]
• On 20 December 2015, an Indonesian Air Force T-50i Golden Eagle crashed while performing a flight demonstration during an airshow at Adisutjipto Air base in Yogyakarta, killing its two pilots^[167][168] caused by poor maintenance and pilot error.^[169]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

Hmm, definiteley the wrong plane for Thailand then, as maintenance here is s..te.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, davehowden said:

Clearly chosen for its maintenance record.

Accidents and incidents

• On 15 November 2012, a T-50B of the South Korean Air Force Black Eagles aerobatic team crashed shortly after takeoff, killing the sole pilot on board. The cause of the crash was due to faulty maintenance.^[165]
• On 28 August 2013, a T-50 of the South Korean Air Force crashed during a training mission near Kwangju city, killing both pilots on board. Investigation results revealed that the pilot deaths resulted from failing to eject at a sufficient altitude, while the crash itself was caused by faulty maintenance.^[166]
• On 20 December 2015, an Indonesian Air Force T-50i Golden Eagle crashed while performing a flight demonstration during an airshow at Adisutjipto Air base in Yogyakarta, killing its two pilots^[167][168] caused by poor maintenance and pilot error.^[169]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

 

You are absolutely correct in what you said about the accidents but you carefully omitted to mention how many areircraft are already in service nor how many of the 6 countries who have ordered the FA16 have not had aircraft accidents.

 

The aircraft diverted to Kuatan as a precautionary measure as any aircraft, civil or military would do.

 

When I was in the RAF many years ago any aircraft that had pulled 9G or 9 times the force of gravity was grounded until it had detailed maintenance performed on it and the aircraft were far stronger in those days.

 

One of the biggest killers of aircrew and aircraft is "pressonitis" where you know that there may be or is a problem but the crtew carry on regardless.

 

As for the aircraft diverting I am sure that some posters would have been happy if the aircraft had crashed and been destroyed.

 

I also think that many posters have no idea about military aircraft at all. How an aircaft is flown in peacetime is not the same as how it is flown under combat conditions.

 

One of the main considerations in peacetime is to keep airframe fatigue, take offs and landings to extend the airframe life and save money on buying new aircraft before they are absolutely needed.

 

If you look at the ex factory prices here on Wikipedia you may learn a little.

 

The price may vary depending on which model is bought and what equipment is installed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle#Operational_history

 

[Chris Lawrence]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

flied into extreme turbulent weather forcing them to make landing at Kuantan airport in Malaysia.

Doesn't Thailand come before Malaysia? So the instrument's were not giving correct readings or they got lost?

 

Just a stupid question, North or South?

[bubba]

T50 Range: 1,851 km

 

Distance from Seoul to Bangkok: 3,720 km

 

Distance from Seoul  to Kuantan: 4,466 km

 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Doesn't Thailand come before Malaysia? So the instrument's were not giving correct readings or they got lost?

 

Just a stupid question, North or South?

 

Kuantan is indeed in the south of Malaysia on the east coast but it depends on the delivery route and which countries will or will not give overflight permission and also where the refuelling and rest stops are planned. From Google Earth it looks as though the flight would most probably be from S Korea down through Taiwan, the Philippines, perhaps Brunei or Borneo, up to Malaysia and on to Thailand.

 

There is less over water flying involved. The alternative would be the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, possibly Laos or not and Thailand. The problem with that route is that it involves flying over the South China Sea with its political problems. It is a shorter distance but whether the Chinese would permit 2 warplanes to fly over is another problem.

 

3 hours ago, bubba said:

T50 Range: 1,851 km

 

Distance from Seoul to Bangkok: 3,720 km

 

Distance from Seoul  to Kuantan: 4,466 km

 

 

Distance from Seoul to Taiwan: 1,644km

 

Distance from Seoul to Manila: 2,620 km

 

Distance from Taiwan to Manila: 1,011km

 

Distance from Manila to Brunei: 1,311km

 

Distance from Brunei to Kuantan : 1,306km

[JimGant]

Quote

According to Korea’s Yonhap News Agency, KAI received two separate orders from Thailand to build four T-50TH trainer jets worth US$110 million on Sept 17, 2015 and eight T-50TH jets valued at $260 million in 2016.

Lemme see. First batch cost 27.5M each; second batch, 32.5M each. Gosh, those RTAF folks sure drive a hard bargain.

[Ossy]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Lemme see. First batch cost 27.5M each; second batch, 32.5M each. Gosh, those RTAF folks sure drive a hard bargain.

No need to bargain. The cost? . . . "no problem!". The Thai govt. just loves to splash the cash, to look rich even though, in most respects, it's skint.

[billd766]

21 hours ago, JimGant said:

Lemme see. First batch cost 27.5M each; second batch, 32.5M each. Gosh, those RTAF folks sure drive a hard bargain.

 

A lot depends on the experience of using the first lot and what different or extra kit you require in the second order.

 

As an example if you buy a standard new car of any type you want it generally comes as the basic model at a certain price. If however you want the same model of car but a higher spec, then it comes at a higher price. If you want something specific as an extra, then that also costs extra.

 

I, like you and almost everybody else commenting have no real idea of what the specs are in whatever model the RTAF chooses plus you also have to add in the cost of inflation year on year. There may have been a variation in the contract between the two orders which will also affect the prices.

 

None of us know the facts but many are great at speculation.

 

Something expensive that you but this year will cost more for the same item next year.

[JimGant]

Just fun with numbers. The RTAF are pretty squared away, operationally and logistically, as I found out when on active duty. That their first deliveries were cheaper than the follow on batch probably reflects spares. Why buy spare engines, etc up front, when they won't be needed for normal maintenance swap out until after a year or so of flight hours, i.e., when the next batch of fighters (plus spares) are delivered. Time value of money, plus warehouse bed sores, no doubt played into the equation.