PM’s definition of ‘democracy’ based on ‘Thai way’ fails the test: analysts

[webfact]

PM’s definition of ‘democracy’ based on ‘Thai way’ fails the test: analysts

By KAS CHANWANPEN, 
WASAMON AUDJARINT 
THE NATION

 

General Prayut Chan-o-cha

 

ACADEMICS SAY PRAYUT’S COMMENTS ARE MEANT TO BOOST THE JUNTA AND DISTRACT FROM REAL POLITICAL RIGHTS

 

IN RESPONSE to the prime minister’s call for a Thai-styled democracy, political scientists have agreed that a system cannot be a democracy without bare minimum attributes such as respect for human rights and freedom.

 

General Prayut Chan-o-cha, the government head and junta chief, first mentioned the term “Thai Niyom”, which can be translated as “Thai-ism” or “the Thai way”, in his Children’s Day speech last Saturday. This led to a lot of speculation about the meaning of the phrase and his real intentions.

 

In trying to decode Prayut’s remarks, Attasit Pankaew, a political scientist from Thammasat University, said yesterday that Thai-style democracy is a term produced from the infusion of Thai-style ethics to politics.

 

“Thai-style democracy is about how politicians must hold some ethical value or be good to other people,” he explained. “But ethics is an intricate subject. In politics, the definition actually must be based on the public interest.”

 

However, Attasit said, in a zero-sum game such as politics, players come up with new definitions and this is where the “ethics” is dragged in.

Attasit said he thought Prayut may have the impression that Thai voters lack political sophistication or are too easily persuaded, “hence, it was necessary that leaders be highly ethical [and] devoted”.

 

He said Prayut could be suggesting that for democracy to work under such conditions, it had to deviate from international norms.

 

However, if the localisation of democracy to match Thai culture meant a transformation to authoritarian rule, Attasit viewed that this was not illegitimate.

 

“It is not unusual for countries to have their own version of democracy. But core values such as free and fair elections, human rights and accountability are still indispensable,” Attasit said.

 

Meanwhile, anti-coup political scientist Sirote Klampaiboon and political science student Parit Chiwarak, said they do not believe Prayut knows exactly what he’s talking about.

 

“When he said the term Thai-styled democracy, I don’t think it meant anything special,” Sirote told The Nation. “General Prayut perhaps was merely unconsciously reproducing the same old discourse used by his predecessors, Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat, Field Marshal Thanom Kittikachorn and General Suchinda Kraprayoon. 

 

“These people were all the same when it comes to addressing democracy – it must be Thai-styled.”

 

Prayut may have invented the relatively new term of ‘Thai-ism’, but the political scientist said it had the same basis as other coup leaders before him. They were trying to justify their rule as democratic although it had nothing resembling the western concept of democracy, Sirote said.

 

“There are no elections. No rights and freedom. No political parties. But this is their democracy,” Sirote said. “The heart of these notions is not about democracy or Thai-ism, it’s about claiming that what they’re doing is democratic.

 

“By using the term ‘Thai-style democracy’, Prayut is saying that what he has been doing in the past four years is good,” he said. The implication, Sirote added, was that this should continue into the future.

 

Parit, an activist and freshman political science student at Thammasat University, also said he thought Prayut did not really mean anything when he used the term.

 

“There’s no such thing as Thai-style democracy. It’s either democracy or it’s not,” he said. “I think he is just trying to distract us or make us feel that we’re not ready to go fully democratic. But we are.”

 

Parit said that Prayut was trying to tell young people what a democracy should be. But, as a young person, Parit said adults should not do that when they know very little about democracy themselves.

 

He stressed that democracy at the bare minimum should be based on equality.

 

“Everyone must decide together how democracy should be,” he said. “It should not be just one person to tell us what it is. It’s everyone’s business.”

 

Prayut said yesterday that he wanted Thai people to have a good understanding of democracy and to do good things for the benefit of the country.

 

He explained that was why he chose the term “Thai Niyom” to describe the country’s democracy.

 

“How much do Thai people take part in national development? How deeply do Thai people understand democracy? We don’t need to follow developed countries. Thailand may be different,” Prayut said.

 

“But basically, we need to play by the world’s rules – whether it is democracy or anything else. We must not forget the principles of democracy,” he added.

 

“This means we should elect governments with transparency and good governance,” he explained.

 

“We have to make democracy that is acceptable to everyone and doesn’t neglect the universal democratic principles,” he said.

 

The prime minister was speaking while presiding over an event to mark National Teachers’ Day at the Teachers’ Council of Thailand Auditorium.

 

“For me, the Thai way of democracy is about how to make Thai people have a good understanding about democracy, and how to make Thai people do good things for good results for the country,” he said.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30336417

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-01-17

[Samui Bodoh]

28 minutes ago, webfact said:

“There are no elections. No rights and freedom. No political parties. But this is their democracy,” Sirote said. “The heart of these notions is not about democracy or Thai-ism, it’s about claiming that what they’re doing is democratic.

 

“By using the term ‘Thai-style democracy’, Prayut is saying that what he has been doing in the past four years is good,” he said. The implication, Sirote added, was that this should continue into the future.

Well said.

 

It is self-serving nonsense and nothing more.

 

[Darcula]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

“For me, the Thai way of democracy is about how to make Thai people have a good understanding about democracy, and how to make Thai people do good things for good results for the country,” he said.

 

Yeah, the best way to achieve that is at gunpoint.

[RichardColeman]

Hopefully his 'democracy' will allow some of us to have our wives claim some form asylum !

[Ossy]

13 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

It can now be added to the list of words like "reform" and "reconciliation". 

G' morning, Yellowboat . . . Prayutness, I think you're referring to.

[YetAnother]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

“There’s no such thing as Thai-style democracy. It’s either democracy or it’s not,” he said.

agreed; this military general, as if military generals are sensitive to democratic values, has repeatedly twisted his version of democracy

[Odysseus123]

21 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

The Thais are ready, but the 1% of the 1% of the population are not. 

 

A definition that defines nothing.  It can now be added to the list of words like "reform" and "reconciliation". 

It is a country where they couldn't call a spade a bloody shovel if they tried.

 

Thai euphemism for spade.."stick with flat metal end that we employ Laotians to use."

 

One should relax,sit back and enjoy the creative dishonesty of it all.

[JAG]

“There’s no such thing as Thai-style democracy. It’s either democracy or it’s not,” he said. “I think he is just trying to distract us or make us feel that we’re not ready to go fully democratic. But we are.”

Well said.

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

"Benign Dictatorships" invariably stop being benign when challenged.

That's when you get "bloody revolutions".

Sent from my KENNY using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

So far no revolution and no sign of it.. maybe the Thais see it the same way I do.. no matter who is in power they will be corrupt and in it for their own good. Why risk your life to bring in some other crooks to power. Unless there is a good alternative for the old parties PTP democrats and the likes there wont be change so why lay you life down for it.

Edited January 17, 2018 by robblok

[Lupatria]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

the Thai way of democracy is about how to make Thai people have a good understanding about democracy

If that happens, he and his time keeper will be history.

[Eric Loh]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, anti-coup political scientist Sirote Klampaiboon and political science student Parit Chiwarak, said they do not believe Prayut knows exactly what he’s talking about.

Bingo. He has been trying to feel his way around since the coup. Even learning on the job has failed to educate him. Time to vacate.  

[Juan B Tong]

I thought they are trying to stop reenactments and miscreants finger pointing.

[Oziex1]

Things will change when the people are educated and this is unlikely to happen unless things change.

[worgeordie]

Thai version of Democracy, everybody do as your told,

and keep your mouths shut,dont complain we know

what's best for you.

regards worgeordie

[Get Real]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Thai-styled democracy

Easy translated into a perfectly understandable concept: Thai-styled democracy = No democracy.

 

Why, why, do they always have to write so long articles? Why in the worl do they need a political scientist from Thammasat University to explain this so complicated?

 

Life is good when you have the gift of speech, and can shorten about 500-600 words into a complete and easy to understand sentence only combined of 5 words.

[USPatriot]

The problem is most Thai's could careless... im sure moat couldnt name people eunning the country. Most dont keep up with news or politics 

[Oziex1]

1 hour ago, USPatriot said:

The problem is most Thai's could careless... im sure moat couldnt name people eunning the country. Most dont keep up with news or politics 

I think they know a lot more than you give them credit for. The people from the rural areas are not happy with this lot and they know their names. 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

So far no revolution and no sign of it.. maybe the Thais see it the same way I do.. no matter who is in power they will be corrupt and in it for their own good. Why risk your life to bring in some other crooks to power. Unless there is a good alternative for the old parties PTP democrats and the likes there wont be change so why lay you life down for it.

Maybe Thais see it the same way that you do, but you don't want to have an election to confirm this.  Got it.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Maybe Thais see it the same way that you do, but you don't want to have an election to confirm this.  Got it.

Your lying, i have stated quite a few times now in the recent months that I want an election. I don't want a revolution, don't like the bloodshed it brings. 

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your lying, i have stated quite a few times now in the recent months that I want an election. I don't want a revolution, don't like the bloodshed it brings. 

Ok, so you support an election. Do you also support lifting the tools of repression--bans of political gatherings, censorship, Article 44, and all the other tools the junta uses to suppress dissent and stay in power? 

 

In other words, do you oppose military rule?  You certainly have seemed supportive in the past.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Ok, so you support an election. Do you also support lifting the tools of repression--bans of political gatherings, censorship, Article 44, and all the other tools the junta uses to suppress dissent and stay in power? 

 

In other words, do you oppose military rule?  You certainly have seemed supportive in the past.

I support lifting the bans on political gathering so they can finally start campaigning. I am against censorship as long as the truth is printed. I am against things like the red radio that is broadcasting propaganda and lies (proven in the past) and the yellow its equivalent. Those kind of things only breed hatred. As long as it is facts no problem. When its rabble rousing based on half truths or lies.. I am against that.

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your lying, i have stated quite a few times now in the recent months that I want an election. I don't want a revolution, don't like the bloodshed it brings. 

History did point out that 3 times in last 30+ years that citizens rose and there were uprising and blood were shed. Citizens, activists and students risked and lost their lives to maintain a fragile democracy. They should be remembered for their sacrifices. 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

History did point out that 3 times in last 30+ years that citizens rose and there were uprising and blood were shed. Citizens, activists and students risked and lost their lives to maintain a fragile democracy. They should be remembered for their sacrifices. 

I agree those that brought YL down and pied a price in blood at the hands of the reds for it should be remembered for their sacrifices just as the others. But i still prefer non violent protest and uprisings.. bloodshed is not needed.. especially if it just brings in power an other crook. 

[yellowboat]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

So far no revolution and no sign of it.. maybe the Thais see it the same way I do.. no matter who is in power they will be corrupt and in it for their own good. Why risk your life to bring in some other crooks to power. Unless there is a good alternative for the old parties PTP democrats and the likes there wont be change so why lay you life down for it.

Because you can vote the crooks out of office.   The junta crooks cannot be voted out ever and all because a few rich people are afraid of scrutiny and competition from the masses. 

 

Governance moves more like a freight train than a motor scooter.  Once in motion, it is hard to stop.  Same holds true for poor governance.  Poor governance now leads to an uncertain future.

Edited January 17, 2018 by yellowboat

[robblok]

Just now, yellowboat said:

Because you can vote the crooks out of office.   These crooks cannot be voted out ever and all because a few rich people are afraid of scrutiny and competition from the masses. 

 

Governance moves more like a freight train than a motor scooter.  Once in motion, it is hard to stop.  Same holds true for poor governance.  Poor governance now leads to an uncertain future.

What point is it to vote crooks out of office when you have no good alternative. The PTP is dirty and corrupt.. the Democrats likewise. So tell me the point.. unless there is fresh blood in politics you just keep voting for the same crooks. The PTP only exists to enrich and bring back Thaksin and his follower. (proof of that is the amnesty where everyone agreed upon an amnesty without the leaders and all of a sudden he was included, then people rose and brought YL down). So they traded being in power for a change to get their master back.. found their master more important as the people. Democrats have plenty of corruption too. So what is left. 

 

Mind you I am still for voting.. but I doubt it will change much unless there is a good alternative. As long as corruption is so high in the parties and accepted everyone wants in government and is willing to kill (actually send others to die and kill) for it. So you keep having tensions as they all want the money there. Unless you get an alternative that is really working for the people and not corrupt the tensions will never change. 

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

I support lifting the bans on political gathering so they can finally start campaigning. I am against censorship as long as the truth is printed. I am against things like the red radio that is broadcasting propaganda and lies (proven in the past) and the yellow its equivalent. Those kind of things only breed hatred. As long as it is facts no problem. When its rabble rousing based on half truths or lies.. I am against that.

Do you propose a government run "Ministry of Truth" to vet all media before publication?  If not, how do you propose to restrict public speech and the press to only the facts?

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you propose a government run "Ministry of Truth" to vet all media before publication?  If not, how do you propose to restrict public speech and the press to only the facts?

Oh quite simple if your proven to distort the facts a few time you get your right to broadcast suspended for a while. Only problem is finding a non bias party to check. I don't think its good to have free hatespeech going on. In my country they can bring hate speech to the courts and it has happened a few times in the past. So it is possible. 

[yellowboat]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

What point is it to vote crooks out of office when you have no good alternative. The PTP is dirty and corrupt.. the Democrats likewise. So tell me the point.. unless there is fresh blood in politics you just keep voting for the same crooks. The PTP only exists to enrich and bring back Thaksin and his follower. (proof of that is the amnesty where everyone agreed upon an amnesty without the leaders and all of a sudden he was included, then people rose and brought YL down). So they traded being in power for a change to get their master back.. found their master more important as the people. Democrats have plenty of corruption too. So what is left. 

 

Mind you I am still for voting.. but I doubt it will change much unless there is a good alternative. As long as corruption is so high in the parties and accepted everyone wants in government and is willing to kill (actually send others to die and kill) for it. So you keep having tensions as they all want the money there. Unless you get an alternative that is really working for the people and not corrupt the tensions will never change. 

Well that is the price of freedom and you must adhere to the will of the people.  Voting cannot be turned off and on like a facet at a whim.  It must run its course.  The constant disruption by the army for the sake of the few, is hurting the country.  It is probably a big reason for good people to stay away from politics.  They fear the army will sack their government.  Would love to see Toon or Yinglucks transportation minister run, but why would they when those with unlimited and unchecked power can just put an end to all your service and endeavors in a single morning.   If you were a noble Thai person able to win office, would you fear the army?  Criminals, not decent people, may be the only people willing stand up to the Army.  Maybe that is why there is an endless stream of criminals. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by yellowboat

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

What point is it to vote crooks out of office when you have no good alternative. The PTP is dirty and corrupt.. the Democrats likewise. So tell me the point.. unless there is fresh blood in politics you just keep voting for the same crooks. The PTP only exists to enrich and bring back Thaksin and his follower. (proof of that is the amnesty where everyone agreed upon an amnesty without the leaders and all of a sudden he was included, then people rose and brought YL down). So they traded being in power for a change to get their master back.. found their master more important as the people. Democrats have plenty of corruption too. So what is left. 

 

Mind you I am still for voting.. but I doubt it will change much unless there is a good alternative. As long as corruption is so high in the parties and accepted everyone wants in government and is willing to kill (actually send others to die and kill) for it. So you keep having tensions as they all want the money there. Unless you get an alternative that is really working for the people and not corrupt the tensions will never change. 

People were forming alternative political parties before the coup, and people had many alternatives to the PTP and the misnamed Democrats.  Both the PTP and the Democrats were very unpopular in 2014, which provided opportunities for other parties.  However an election that would have weakened the established parties democratically was prevented by the military.  If I remember correctly you were one of those who supported this crime against democracy.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

People were forming alternative political parties before the coup, and people had many alternatives to the PTP and the misnamed Democrats.  Both the PTP and the Democrats were very unpopular in 2014, which provided opportunities for other parties.  However an election that would have weakened the established parties democratically was prevented by the military.  If I remember correctly you were one of those who supported this crime against democracy.

You remember correctly as I wanted the Shins punished for their corruption. Thankfully that happened, not so happy about the rest. 

 

Also wanted the reds that killed the yellows to be punished.. that happend too.. as long as YL was in power nobody was ever caught.. so yea there are upsides too to the crime against democracy.

 

Downsides too I agree.

Edited January 17, 2018 by robblok