Bangkok Air Pollution

[Jason Green]

Thanks for this! It looks like most of the fires are in China, Myanmar and Vietnam. The amount of fires is not high in Northern Thailand or anywhere in Thailand, really ???? I am in Chiang Mai and it doesn't seem it should be smokey here! Maybe were getting backdraft from Myanmar... ????

[lopburi3]

58 minutes ago, Jason Green said:

Thanks for this! It looks like most of the fires are in China, Myanmar and Vietnam.

There are fires all over central Thailand and Chiang Mai.  Below is 48 hour image.

[SoilSpoil]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

There are fires all over central Thailand and Chiang Mai.  Below is 48 hour image.

Yeah, and with winds coming in from that direction, we have a very poor air quality down south. With a bit of luck, the winds will turn Friday and we will be breathing clean air again. The cheap rice comes at a high price this way. 

[Misty]

23 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Getting back to indoor AQ:  Has anyone noticed that running aircon impairs AQ?  Here's what I found:

 

I recently bought a Hatari HT-AP1 purifier.  In my bedroom (about 10 sq m) it reduces PM 2.5 to zero running the fan at the lowest level (1).  But when I run the aircon, PM 2.5 goes up to 10 or more within 30 minutes or so, with the Hatari still on the same fan level.  When I turn the aircon off, PM 2.5 goes back to zero.  I changed nothing else in the room besides the aircon.  I've repeated this experiment several times and the results are the same.

 

The only other variable I could think of was humidity, which I know can fool the particle monitor.  I noticed the humidity did rise with aircon on, from 61% to 66%.  But that doesn't seem enough to account for such a big jump in PM 2.5.  AND when I turned off the aircon, the PM 2.5 dropped to zero while the humidity was still at 64%.  So that doesn't seem to be the culprit. (BTW I'm using a SNDWAY 2.5 monitor which has proved quite accurate in many settings)

 

I've read that aircon does not bring in outside air.  My aircon is a supposedly good Daikin system, with the compressor etc. outside on the deck and the indoor cooling vents flush against the upper walls of my rooms.  Just had the filters cleaned a few days ago (before the above tests).

 

Does anyone understand why this happens?

I've observed something similar with the older air conditioner units in our apartment. These units have ceiling intakes and wall outlets.  Although our building adds coolant to the outside compressor units, they don't service them in other ways.  Never seen them change a filter, for example.  In fact, maintenance seems to think no filter is necessary for these older units. When we turn these units on, there is always a jump in PM 2.5.

 

Most of these older units, however, have been replaced with newer wall units.  We put 3M filtrete paper on the screen inside the unit, like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka8aMHpddUw. The filtrete needs to be changed every month or two (gets dirty), but using the wall units with filtrete paper seems to help lower the PM 2.5.

 

Needless to say, when the air quality outside is bad, we stick with using the newer wall units, not the older unfiltered ones.

[edwardandtubs]

On 11/9/2019 at 8:34 PM, bbi1 said:

You can validate any 3M mask there. Look on the box at the top or bottom and you will see they have the same validation code details.

This is false information. Boxes of 3M Vflex don't have the required codes on the box. Now thanks to you I've gone and bought a box of them from Lazada and I have no idea if they're genuine or not.

[bbi1]

3 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

This is false information. Boxes of 3M Vflex don't have the required codes on the box. Now thanks to you I've gone and bought a box of them from Lazada and I have no idea if they're genuine or not.

I would only buy them from the 3M official store on Lazada, never from some random seller. I always assume if it's not from a 3M official store/source then it's a fake.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

I would only buy them from the 3M official store on Lazada, never from some random seller. I always assume if it's not from a 3M official store/source then it's a fake.

 

Last time I looked, the former 3M official store on Lazada seemed to have disappeared, and instead, I found one listed on Central's JD.com site....  Is there actually still a 3M store on Lazada with masks?  If so, any link?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, Misty said:

So that doesn't seem to be the culprit. (BTW I'm using a SNDWAY 2.5 monitor which has proved quite accurate in many settings)

 

I use the Sndway SW-825 models as well, and have never encountered my air con being on or off causing that kind of variation in PM2.5 readings.

 

FWIW, my air con is the standard Thai style split unit with the fan portion hung inside on the bedroom wall and the compressor unit outside. In those kinds of units, AFAIK, the indoor air is always recirculated, and there's no option or setting for the unit to bring in air from outside (unlike a car air con system).

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

I noticed the humidity did rise with aircon on, from 61% to 66%.

 

Normally, running an air con unit in a bedroom should REDUCE the ambient humidity levels, not increase them.

 

[Misty]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Normally, running an air con unit in a bedroom should REDUCE the ambient humidity levels, not increase them.

 

Yes, that's my experience too.  I think maybe you meant to quote "TerraplaneGuy" instead of me.

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Last time I looked, the former 3M official store on Lazada seemed to have disappeared, and instead, I found one listed on Central's JD.com site....  Is there actually still a 3M store on Lazada with masks?  If so, any link?

 

No it hasn't 'disappeared'. It's extremely easy to find.

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

I would only buy them from the 3M official store on Lazada, never from some random seller. I always assume if it's not from a 3M official store/source then it's a fake.

That's what I assume too but after your false information I thought there's no harm in buying it because I can check if it's genuine or not and return it if it isn't. You really shouldn't claim to have information if you don't know what you're talking about.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

That's what I assume too but after your false information I thought there's no harm in buying it because I can check if it's genuine or not and return it if it isn't. You really shouldn't claim to have information if you don't know what you're talking about.

All my 3M masks had those info on the boxes, the 8210, the 9010 and the 9211+. If buying from the official 3M store on Lazada I wouldn't think that 3M would be selling fakes themselves.

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

All my 3M masks had those info on the boxes, the 8210, the 9010 and the 9211+. If buying from the official 3M store on Lazada I wouldn't think that 3M would be selling fakes themselves.

Obviously the official 3M store is unlikely to sell fakes but they've been out of stock of the 9105 for months, hence the need to buy from an unofficial seller.

 

Did the code on your other boxes come on a label stuck to the box or was it printed on the box itself?

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

Obviously the official 3M store is unlikely to sell fakes but they've been out of stock of the 9105 for months, hence the need to buy from an unofficial seller.

 

Did the code on your other boxes come on a label stuck to the box or was it printed on the box itself?

8210 was printed on the box. 9010 & 9211+ had a sticker on the box.

[edwardandtubs]

On 11/14/2019 at 4:36 PM, bbi1 said:

8210 was printed on the box. 9010 & 9211+ had a sticker on the box.

3M confirmed that the 9105 cannot be validated online. I could send the box back to Lazada but decided to keep it. At first I was worried because there's slight typographical differences compared to the mask I bought from Tesco but then I checked the 3M website and there's no difference. Everything else appears to be identical between the Tesco and Lazada masks. 

 

The seller (Intech Premier) appears to be a reputable seller of 3M products with a physical store in Phuket (visible on Google maps). They have been selling these for almost 2 years with only positive ratings. It wouldn't make any business sense for them to risk destroying their reputation (and risk legal action by 3M) by selling fake masks. They say they bought them from 3M Thailand and I have no reason not to believe them. They're making a profit by buying a bulk pack of 8 boxes of 50 masks direct from 3M and then selling each box online or in their shop. They appear to be selling about one box every one of two weeks on Lazada so it makes sense that they've still got some in stock.

[manchega]

to those asking why this happens, Nasa continues to provide satellite coverage with burning going on all over SEA this season and for the next 4 - 6 months

so that is part of the equation

the other is public transport is not particularly important in the big cities such as BKK, yes they try to improve coverage but the majority still require their own transport to get from home to the office or school etc,

those buses such as the ones used by military and all bus companies, the trucks badly tuned diesel engines etc.

#

now you know

[lopburi3]

17 minutes ago, manchega said:

those buses such as the ones used by military and all bus companies, the trucks badly tuned diesel engines etc.

#

now you know

As someone who lived here 50 years ago, with almost no vehicles, and remembers really bad diesel smoke (where a trip from Don Muang to town would result in a totally black handkerchief once you blew nose) do not believe badly tuned diesel bus engines are a major factor currently (most vehicles are cars and vans).  A factor sure - but small in the burning equation.  

[manchega]

maybe not as bad lopburi, but a few pages back someone was asking why, diesel is meant to be one of biggest contributors, personal trucks and those transporting tend to be badly adjusted and kicking out black smoke, not just the government buses, the coaches and the works trucks.

the issue is not just the farm and jungle burning though that has a lot to do with it

if it were just the burnings there would be no reason for smog to be localised over big cities

[edwardandtubs]

Got to love the fresh air. Much cleaner than this time last year. Wonder how long it'll last.

[bbi1]

10 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Got to love the fresh air. Much cleaner than this time last year. Wonder how long it'll last.

Wondering why the air has apparently been quite decent in BKK today and yesterday. AirVisual puts the air quality at 27 US AQI which is actually amazing for BKK!!

[lopburi3]

42 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Wondering why the air has apparently been quite decent in BKK today and yesterday. AirVisual puts the air quality at 27 US AQI which is actually amazing for BKK!!

Have you opened the window?  The wind is blowing and gusting strong today.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Have you opened the window?  The wind is blowing and gusting strong today.

Yes I did in the morning, not much wind in the morning and the afternoon had no breeze at all.

[lopburi3]

20 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Yes I did in the morning, not much wind in the morning and the afternoon had no breeze at all.

It was blowing quite good here in Latphao at ground level earlier - much more than normal.  

[edwardandtubs]

It's not just wind but air pressure as well. Favourable atmospheric conditions in general.

[mngmn]

On 1/23/2018 at 3:14 PM, Just Weird said:

You're right, no one cares about this type of alarmist post because it's not a big deal and nothing can be done about it in the medium to short term. If you are donning a medical type mask you're wasting your time with that too.

I cared enough to leave Thailand for good. And yes before the TV dogs start baying, I'm certain no one misses me or my money.  It was a personal decision to improve my life expectancy.

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 11/28/2019 at 3:36 PM, mngmn said:

I cared enough to leave Thailand for good. And yes before the TV dogs start baying, I'm certain no one misses me or my money.  It was a personal decision to improve my life expectancy.

Understandable decision.  Can I ask where you moved to?  I've been thinking of leaving Thailand for the same reason (been here 8 years, air just gets worse) but it seems there's no place in Asia that has significantly better air, other than Japan and Taiwan.  I use the waqi.info  site which gives easy-to-see 12 month AQ history for everywhere.   (I don't trust the Malaysia info, which looks quite green, because they only recently started monitoring PM 2.5 and it still looks dubious to me).

[mitebbots]

I was looking at your waqi.info site, still trying to figure it out. seems be be stuck on Vietnam for some reason. I changed the flag to US.

 

this seems to be pretty close: http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/local/Thailand/Bangkok

 

I think the south is better during the rough air quality season, maybe Trang or Phatthalung. 

[TerraplaneGuy]

3 hours ago, mitebbots said:

I was looking at your waqi.info site, still trying to figure it out. seems be be stuck on Vietnam for some reason. I changed the flag to US.

 

this seems to be pretty close: http://berkeleyearth.lbl.gov/air-quality/local/Thailand/Bangkok

 

I think the south is better during the rough air quality season, maybe Trang or Phatthalung. 

What browser are you using?  I use Chrome and have no trouble with the waqi.info site.  The berkeleyearth site is OK but some of their historical data seems suspect (Malaysia for instance).  I don't think they have a big team working on the site.  I emailed them with some questions a few months ago and they never answered.

 

I think you're right that the South generally has better air although there are a lot fewer monitoring stations other than government, which I'm skeptical of.  According to waqi and aqicn (basically the same site) Surat Thani's past 12 months air quality is way better than BKK (mostly green and yellow) but that's from one government station.  As for Phattalung, I see no data but I guess it would be OK.  However, it also seems there's no cities or even towns down there to speak of.  Hard to imagine living there for an extended period.  On Wikipedia the description of the economy refers to exactly one industry:  hit men!  

[uhuh]

Terrible haze when looking out of my window (high floor) towards the airport.

Has been bad for days,  today's very bad.

I don't trust air4thai, but even aqicn.org claims that the air is not too bad ( yellow readings for the last couple of days, right now 97 - and 76 at Chula).

 

 

Anybody with independent meters for pm2.5 can confirm that this is natural haze and not pm2.5?