Common building mistakes in Asia and Thailand

[Artisi]

12 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

 

 

While I agree that flaming is uncalled for its very difficult not to post negative comments regarding this thread as the op clearly has no idea what he is talking about.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Maybe, but lets give the benifit of the doubt and assume his intention were in the right place. 

[Beats56]

On 23/01/2018 at 3:30 PM, Artisi said:

Fact check needed re no house built like that in the west - total BS. Yes, they might have been built on stilts in some flood areas, or to house the buffalo underneath, to keep the wild life out and for cooling. 

Saw them building houses in Louisiana. They are on slabs of concrete.

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, Beats56 said:

Saw them building houses in Louisiana. They are on slabs of concrete.

Yes indeed, they're not uncommon in the southern states.

[Tofer]

13 hours ago, carlyai said:

Ahhhhhh....rising damp on the fence hehehe

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Send in the graffiti artists with their spray cans...

[StevieAus]

On 1/24/2018 at 2:31 PM, timendres said:

My biggest complaint is the utter lack of u-traps in sewer side plumbing. U-traps prevent the horrifying smells coming up the pipes and into the living space. Every bathroom I have ever had here reeks of sewer smells. I have seen a few cases of drain traps including a small curved water trap with a bell shape on the top to simulate what a proper u-trap does, but they rarely work well as the water evaporates too quickly.

Had the same problem when we built our house “ Not needed because you are not connected to sewage system like in Australia no smell “ Ha Ha 

I bought and fitted them myself  and deducted the cost from the final payment along with the cost of rectifying several other issues.

[Tofer]

There's a lot of talk about venting drains.

 

Drains should always be vented at the highest point on the run, not at the end of the run at the septic tank. It also aids the flow of sewage and helps prevent traps being sucked out from negative pressure as the drain seeks to draw air in through the fitting.

 

Also ensure there is adequate Roding access to deal with any blockages.

[sirineou]

22 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Building faults in Thailand, there's only one.

The wantabe backyard, no licence, no common sense, no education, former farmer did a two day building course with his nephew who was a shop assistant at 7 eleven turns up to build your house. Oh I nearly forgot, shit loads of cement that sticks everything together.

 

 I am making a general point, not directed at you, I am also guilty of what I describe

IMO picking your builder is the biggest mistake , everything else is a consequence of that.

You get what you pay. I know it's a roll of the dice, but if you do your homework homework , ask around, and use a litle common sense, There more than a few good builders.

It seems to me that for some reason we all want to see how cheap we can do things in Thailand , and delight telling others how we did it for less money than them ,trying to make them feel stupid for paying more. and then when things go belly up, we are  surprised. 

Of course we all want to pay as litle as possible, but IMO we do need to use a litle common sense.

I am building a house right now.

First I did my homework for a few years now, learning from others and getting a feel for the thing.

Then I talked to a few builders, looked at their work but more importantly, listen to them.

The work they will show you will be their best, they are not going to show you their F#*& Ups or take you to talk to customers that hate them. You got to listen to what they say and if it does not line up with what you learned when you did your homework , they either don't know what they are talking about or,are trying to sell you a bill of goods.

    One builder's house had a big crack in a corner, when I asked about it, he told me they were going to fix later. I thought, "you are going to cover it up later" how are you going to fix the improper foundation that caused the crack,

    another builder tried to talk me out of superblock with thing I knew were not true,  etc.

Then it's the price. You want your builder to make some money, if he doesn't you should know it's not going to end good for both of you. 

The builder I chose was recommended by a expat friend, that had done a good job for him, and he was recommended to him by a friend of his that was also happy with his work.  I have given him enough room in the price , to afford to go back and fix things that go wrong as they always will when you are building a house, especially in Thailand.

I don't mean to sound preachy , and I apologise if it sounds like it. not my intent.

 

And a final point,. Even the best builder will need supervision. He will not always be at your build, and Thai workers, often having the best intentions, will want to do things the way they are familiar in their houses and lives, Much in the same way that you go with what you know.  

I am not able to be in Thailand for this build,  but the wife goes at the build early every day, communicating with Face-time  so I can see whats going on and we go over what they did and what they are about to do.  Then I communicate with the builder and nip  in the butt any concerns I have. But do it in a way that I don't insult him. First I talk about all the nice things they did and how happy I am about them, then U bring up the litle thing that from the picture looked like it might not be right. I ask did you see it? He always that he had not and will take care of it immediately. Facer saved! 

If anyone is building in the Khon Kaen area I highly recommend my builder. There always going to be problems, but he is  knowledgeable, and very honest, and easy to communicate with. And when there is a problem (only had minor ones) he fixes it quickly. But you need to keep an eye on tings and point out concerns. PM me if you need his info.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by sirineou

[irlguy1]

Agree with everything the above poster has said and likewise I had to do a lot of research before I found the perfect builder for my place. It's built a year now and no issues whatsoever. More to the point I have seen his older work and it's perfect. Unlike many builds from other companies I checked out which have cracks, leaks and all the other fun problems that go with picking a bad crew.
Another thing to mention is that if you expect to find a good builder that can start your job straight away then your delusional. A good builder will be busy and any one that can start immediately is obviously not in demand which is an immediate warning sign.
Anyway if anyone needs my guys details drop me a pm he builds all over Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KKr]

On 1/24/2018 at 8:37 AM, hansnl said:

I come from a town in the Netherlands situated rather far below sea level and with a high water table.

All houses, new and old, have crawl spaces.

Must be for blocking humidity from the high water table.

Guess having a crawl space is not such a bad idea.

a crawl space, that is typically ventilated, blocks humidity rising into the floor, furthermore, using one or two layers of different type of brick blocks the wicking effect between foundation and walls.
Furthermore, a crawl space keeps the living area floor at an acceptable temperature when properly isolated (what used to be subsidised), rather than heating the soil; and the opposite would be valid here in TH, the floor gets ventilated and can thus get rid of heat accumulated during day time.

Having said that, I would be reluctant to have a crawl space because of the different type of wildlife that can breed there. Same for walls with cavities.
Planning to do the slab on a layer of appropriate humidity barrier, and then the house, or apartment as the case may be, three meters up.

Edited January 26, 2018 by KKr

[Allen Ginsing]

On 24/01/2018 at 7:35 PM, Tofer said:

Spot on. If you have a shower in a guest bathroom that gets little use the best solution is to place traps on the downside of the whb which should get regular use and keep the trap full. 

Unfortunately traps will not solve the problem. Sewer gas will permeate through the septic tank and into the house unless it is vented and it will permeate through the traps.

 

 

If you have slab foundations one thing you can do is install weeping tiles, drainage pipes,

 

 

If you are building a house then construction foam should be under the concrete,

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/placing-concrete-foundation-rigid-foam-insulation

Edited January 31, 2018 by Allen Ginsing

[sometimewoodworker]

On 1/24/2018 at 9:50 AM, simoh1490 said:

I'm sure that there is rising damp in Thailand but what I wrote is that it's not common, I have certainly never seen it 

I think that you may have a sigh defect. Very many houses have paint pealing of the bottom of the walls, a clear example of rising damp,

 

Rising damp usually has little to to with the hight of the water table

[JAZZDOG]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 2:19 PM, bankruatsteve said:

I wonder where you are getting your information to say slab construction (your #1) is a mistake in Thailand?  The only time I have seen mold on a slab is when it is not tiled or protected otherwise.  I have never seen tiles laid with "glue" here.  And, I have never seen a basement here (outside of the "mountains").  What I have seen is most all new construction being built on a slab.

need a visqueen vaper barrier

[JAZZDOG]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:59 PM, sirineou said:

 I am making a general point, not directed at you, I am also guilty of what I describe

IMO picking your builder is the biggest mistake , everything else is a consequence of that.

You get what you pay. I know it's a roll of the dice, but if you do your homework homework , ask around, and use a litle common sense, There more than a few good builders.

It seems to me that for some reason we all want to see how cheap we can do things in Thailand , and delight telling others how we did it for less money than them ,trying to make them feel stupid for paying more. and then when things go belly up, we are  surprised. 

Of course we all want to pay as litle as possible, but IMO we do need to use a litle common sense.

I am building a house right now.

First I did my homework for a few years now, learning from others and getting a feel for the thing.

Then I talked to a few builders, looked at their work but more importantly, listen to them.

The work they will show you will be their best, they are not going to show you their F#*& Ups or take you to talk to customers that hate them. You got to listen to what they say and if it does not line up with what you learned when you did your homework , they either don't know what they are talking about or,are trying to sell you a bill of goods.

    One builder's house had a big crack in a corner, when I asked about it, he told me they were going to fix later. I thought, "you are going to cover it up later" how are you going to fix the improper foundation that caused the crack,

    another builder tried to talk me out of superblock with thing I knew were not true,  etc.

Then it's the price. You want your builder to make some money, if he doesn't you should know it's not going to end good for both of you. 

The builder I chose was recommended by a expat friend, that had done a good job for him, and he was recommended to him by a friend of his that was also happy with his work.  I have given him enough room in the price , to afford to go back and fix things that go wrong as they always will when you are building a house, especially in Thailand.

I don't mean to sound preachy , and I apologise if it sounds like it. not my intent.

 

And a final point,. Even the best builder will need supervision. He will not always be at your build, and Thai workers, often having the best intentions, will want to do things the way they are familiar in their houses and lives, Much in the same way that you go with what you know.  

I am not able to be in Thailand for this build,  but the wife goes at the build early every day, communicating with Face-time  so I can see whats going on and we go over what they did and what they are about to do.  Then I communicate with the builder and nip  in the butt any concerns I have. But do it in a way that I don't insult him. First I talk about all the nice things they did and how happy I am about them, then U bring up the litle thing that from the picture looked like it might not be right. I ask did you see it? He always that he had not and will take care of it immediately. Facer saved! 

If anyone is building in the Khon Kaen area I highly recommend my builder. There always going to be problems, but he is  knowledgeable, and very honest, and easy to communicate with. And when there is a problem (only had minor ones) he fixes it quickly. But you need to keep an eye on tings and point out concerns. PM me if you need his info.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually many of the problems in LOS are not a matter of expense but are lack of education ie; venting, P-traps, grounding, plastic membrane under slab/footers. Correcting just these common problems on a 150 m/2 home on grade might cost 6000 baht and 5 hours labor. It makes no sense not to have these labor intensive jobs included where labor is so cheap.

[irlguy1]

I think that you may have a sigh defect. Very many houses have paint pealing of the bottom of the walls, a clear example of rising damp,

 

Rising damp usually has little to to with the hight of the water table

Paint peeling off the walls is rarely a rising damp issue in Thailand. Not saying that it's never rising damp but not always.

It's usually cheap paint on poorly prepared concrete or the sheer power of the rain and the heat.

 

The construction company that built my home told me that most Thai House builders don't allow the concrete to dry properly then don't seal it and then start painting it all while other work is happening like sanding etc. Which means all the dust and crap is all over the concrete before they paint it and they just paint over dust Leading to it all peeling very quickly. It's all about prep work.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

Paint peeling off the walls is rarely a rising damp issue in Thailand. Not saying that it's never rising damp but not always.

It's usually cheap paint on poorly prepared concrete or the sheer power of the rain and the heat.

The paint concerned is often on interior walls and not usually higher than 200~300 mm. If on exterior walls they are often shielded from rain.

 

To me that is a clear indication of rising damp, do you agree? Or do you have a different theory?

[irlguy1]

The paint concerned is often on interior walls and not usually higher than 200~300 mm. If on exterior walls they are often shielded from rain.
 
To me that is a clear indication of rising damp, do you agree? Or do you have a different theory?

In all my years living here I have rarely ever seen marks in interior paint but anywhere I have seen it it's usually from people mopping the floor and leaving mop marks or over time the dirty wet water gets mouldy and black.
Thais like to wet wash their floors and rarely ever dry wipe them after which causes crud to build up on the skirting.

Exterior walls may be shielded from rain but not from hose pipes, leaky gutters, splash back etc. Any house that has no major roof overhang will get wet walls and peeling paint from both water and sun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, irlguy1 said:

In all my years living here I have rarely ever seen marks in interior paint but anywhere I have seen it it's usually from people mopping the floor and leaving mop marks or over time the dirty wet water gets mouldy and black.

Paint peeling from low areas of interior and exterior walls is quite common here and mostly caused by rising or sometimes penetrating damp. There are many causes with bridging of footing beams being the favourite. Simple conductivity tests usually reveal the cause or source. 
 

[JestSetter]

I think the most common mistakes are caused by the general population not wanting to upset the builder's ego. In this type of culture, the builder is usually not made aware of issues (as mentioned in an earlier post) and so how can he improve? It is a cultural issue that create all of these problems. 

 

One should add the dire issue of designing houses with fung shwei in mind which interferes with the notions of shielding the living spaces from the hot (west/south) side of the house.

 

The use of Burmese workers probably not probably trained does not help matter as well, but then that is probably why the houses are quite cheap here.

 

The use of concrete roof tiles might be an issue, esp. without the use of insulation, as they trap heat. I live in a 20 y. old house and it has no insulation and no venting. I see more houses with rafter vents and the usual gable vents though. Btw, I don't get the idea of putting the insulation on the internal slopes of the roof when the ground of the "attic" is a smaller area. At the same time, I am not sure how they are going to put the insulation (the fibreglass) inside the drop ceiling area if it happens to be heavier than the ceiling can bear.

 

 I was surprised to have the engineer/builder skip the soil bore hole test on a piece of land that has 2 sides close to streams (20 m,), albeit small.

 

I was surprised that the eng, chose a slab foundation (with several footings just a few meters deep). I live in a zone where there is a lot of clay soil and no sand (mountain). I read it might be a good idea to use helical piles. Some builders recommend deeper footings, but they seem to rely (in the best of cases) on past experience, no soil tests. I also hear that they even go to the rock.

 

I am surprised that they still use concrete piles, not the helical screw pile that seems faster to put in. It seems a robust system. But, my house is 2 stories (80m2). Still, lighter metal sheet. Not sure if the helical piles are a good idea. 

 

I agree with many about the problems with the lack of or improper venting and traps.

 

The bricklaying is a bit suspect at times.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, JestSetter said:

I was surprised to have the engineer/builder skip the soil bore hole test on a piece of land that has 2 sides close to streams (20 m,), albeit small.

They will only ever do soil tests if you insist, I did, they did.

 

3 hours ago, JestSetter said:

I was surprised that the eng, chose a slab foundation (with several footings just a few meters deep).

Did you actually have an engineer?  They did it that way because they always do it that way.

 

3 hours ago, JestSetter said:

The bricklaying is a bit suspect at times.

That is why we used AAC.

 

3 hours ago, JestSetter said:

I am surprised that they still use concrete piles, not the helical screw pile that seems faster to put in. 

They have never used it and it needs special equipment (that they don't have) to put them in.

[JestSetter]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

They will only ever do soil tests if you insist, I did, they did.

This should be automatic. It is like going into an autobody shop and asking for a repair. You would expect they would check the alignment, if the accident was a substantial one.

 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

Did you actually have an engineer?  They did it that way because they always do it that way.

I had an engineer. True, and no one is ever telling them not to for fear of hurting their feelings.

 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

That is why we used AAC.

 

They have never used it and it needs special equipment (that they don't have) to put them in.

Using AAC: I see them being used. I guess it depends on the architect,... The developer I know has built 3 big building. He prefers the bricks, but is it because the general contractor has relationships with bricklayer company and the the brick company, getting a nice cut VS AAC from Homepro. But, maybe they know something we don't know. I like the AAC, if I believe the literature from the blocks I saw in Homemall.

 

I just learned that the helical screws are 3 x more expensive, but then I thought that the traditional way they would be pouring concrete into the bore holes.Apparently they just use prefab concrete posts. 

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

 

 

 

[lannarebirth]

On 1/23/2018 at 4:32 PM, bankruatsteve said:

I think it is clear that the OP is claiming slab construction yields mold and therefore a mistake.  My inference is that if it is such a mistake, why would everyone do it.

There is nothing inherently wrong with constructing homes on a concrete slab. Where one may expect probems is if that slab is poured below, rather than above the grade of surrounding land. Also, if no accomodation is made for the routing of rain water from roof, away from the slab during rainy periods.

[Don Chance]

The townhouse i am in now has lots of problems.

 

Dude where's my roof? The roof stops before the end of building! So the rain water runs down the front of the building. That is why you see black mold over all these thai buildings, no exterior protection. Roofs like a beenie cap when they should be like sombrero.

 

Then the ledge that is a continuation of the floor, the ledge catches water of course, there they put the air con unit. The ledge should be slopped. so the water runs off. The whole exterior should have some sort of siding protection.

 

The water on the ledge wicks into the interior floor, hence under the tiles there is mold this time of year.

The way they put down tiles is wrong too. It should have a plastic, poly barrier over the subfloor then thin set and then the tiles. This is why there is mold under the tiles. I've seen new builds here and they use a exterior glue for the tiles. So VOC's for years. 

 

Well if you not allergic to mold you are lucky duck in Thailand, it seems here in the south most building have mold problems. Notice how Thai's are sniffing the menthol stick all the time?

 

My hats off to the OP,  a very good list and can add much more.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Don Chance

[mogandave]

 
I just learned that the helical screws are 3 x more expensive, but then I thought that the traditional way they would be pouring concrete into the bore holes.Apparently they just use prefab concrete posts. 

They do both

[cliveshep]

I've seen CFA piling done here (Continuous Flight Augur) but no CHD (Continuous Helical Displacement) piling, but I'm sure they'll have it somewhere. They do basic augur piling, boring a hole, pouring concrete down it and a helicoil cage dropped in,  and they do driven piles, thumping down long piles with a one or two tonne drop hammer from a big tripod and winch or a tracked luffing crane. 

 

Then they do the 3 or 5 metre concrete piles they put in by man power, 6 or more lads arms around each other balanced on a see-saw plank over the top or in a loop of chain to the top and everyone singing a little song while they bounce in unison using their weight to drive the pile in.

 

I had a two storey extension built and there were 5 manually driven 3m concrete piles under each post driven that way, it is remarkable effective although my builder arranged it and it was costly, I suspect because he was ripping us off as he did with everything else but then he is family and has a history of taking advantage.

 

Back on topic, RC ground beams on these piles and a cap cast integrally followed by pc planks over with an RC concrete topping. Tiles then on a sand/cement screed stuck with a smear of cementitious tile adhesive on the back. No dpm, no dpc, BUT the floor is by the time tiled a 3 layer of concrete tiled over. My shower rooms - we have 2 upstairs and 2 downstairs - do not go black with mould, there is no leakage from upstairs down through the slab.

 

We are in a concrete portal-frame house with sand/cement rendered both sides hollow block walls single skin 75mm hollow block. In other words what has become traditional build, rc posts cast insitu, on ground beams, witth beams at 1st floor level and more posts over. Roof steels welded to the rebar projecting from the top of the posts as a standard thing. We have no insulation in a roof under concrete tiles- it doesn't leak but it gets bloody hot upstairs. We need insulation and roof vents - and perhaps a fan but we have nothing of the sort. We have air con in every room but during the day we rely on fans and open windows - it's bearable. By night time the house has absorbed so much heat it is releasing it and evenings do get hot.

 

We have water under our suspended floor slab in this 15yr old house, it is built over a former rice field but about 1.2m higher to the ground floor level, we broke through the suspended slab to install a new toilet soil pipe which is how we know about the constant water under the house. It has caused no problems and there are no cracks in the house.