Foxy52 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Where to get? I finally escaped from the UK age 32 in 1984 and will return for a couple of weeks in April this year, when I'll turn 66 and believe I'll qualify for some sort of pension, having paid NI stamps for about 10-12 years. I tried online but they kept demanding my NI number, of which I have no idea, except knowing I used to have one. Any advice please, especially about this NI number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I really wouldn't trust any financial advisors in Thailand with your pension advice, there are no licensing laws and the market is rife with snake oil salesmen, perhaps best to get your advice back in the UK. All you will find in Thailand is people selling mutual funds and similar, all of which are expensive on the fees side of things. Also, if you have the opportunity and the means, back pay your missed NI contributions which will entitle you to a full state pension, it's the best value in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy52 Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Thanks, I know no to trust advisors etc, but I was hoping to learn how to find this elusive NI number and where to actually go during my brief time in the UK (there for 2 weeks only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Foxy52 said: Thanks, I know no to trust advisors etc, but I was hoping to learn how to find this elusive NI number and where to actually go during my brief time in the UK (there for 2 weeks only) Try this: https://www.gov.uk/lost-national-insurance-number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiejohn Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, simoh1490 said: Also, if you have the opportunity and the means, back pay your missed NI contributions which will entitle you to a full state pension, it's the best value in town. You are very limited as to how many years you can "pay back missed NI contributions" and given the info you have provided you will not get a "full state pension" at any time. A quick google search to either "gateway uk" or "UK Pensions" will get you the info you require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I recently helped my father who had just turned past retirement age sort his out.. He was also a non resident to the uk and had long patches of self employed stamp and also wanted to top up a few years back stamp as it would add significantly to the pension before he turned of age. My conclusion is the entire process is set up to be as difficult as possible.. We spent hours on hold, month after month after month.. Being told we needed to get pension predictions (I cant remember the exact term) them never coming, no one being able to answer or communicate, computer systems 'down' whenever we called etc etc.. All told we probably were pushing at it for 18 months of repeated effort. I really think its designed in such a way as to make people give up. In fact one of his friends who had years of special pension contribs they couldnt find did exactly that and gave up to simply get a minimum pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I paid an additional seven years of missed payments about eight years ago and it was very easy to do, times have changed I note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) If you can get all the necessary info together (including your NI number of course) you should be able to pull up your history of NI contributions on the UK Gov Online site. That will tell you how many years you have contributed (I believe it starts at 16) and what you potential top up options are. If i recall each year you want to top up (but as someone said i think there is a limit) will cost about £650. Also bear in mind that if you worked for a UK Gov Organisation you may find that your NI contributions have been reduced. This is because most UK Gov Pension schemes made a reduction in the amount of NI constributions and you will be punished for that now ! Edited January 23, 2018 by Gruff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Gruff said: If i recall each year you want to top up (but as someone said i think there is a limit) will cost about £650. You can pay about six or so years back, but the government website is very good on this, once you have got the login. They tell you exactly where you stand. By declaring yourself self-employed, the annual rate for each missed year reduces dramatically to between 130 and 155 Quid (from memory) by paying Class 2. This will cease to be possible after the current financial year and the price goes up to 700 Quid or so per annum. 1 hour ago, Gruff said: Also bear in mind that if you worked for a UK Gov Organisation you may find that your NI contributions have been reduced. That would be compensated by the overly generous pensions schemes that the government runs for government employess. This is also an issue for private sector workers, a lot of whom were contracted out and paid reduced NHS contributions. The years that were contributed out are not counted as full years for the latest State pension arrangement. The other scam is that contributions made by your spouse/ex-spouse no longer count. After having a letter some years ago saying I had enough contributions to qualify for the maximum State pension, the new regulation has left me with a largish hole, which I am slowly filling, but will still be a year or two short. That is why it is important for all Brits to check and work out what is best, particularly if no longer in the UK. Paying voluntary contributions into the UK State pension is easily the best and most secure investment you can make for 700 Quid a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotEinstein Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 The main 'issue' with the UK state pension for non-residents is the fact that the rate is frozen at the time of leaving, which makes it much less appealing - I will only get half the current rate and probably a quarter of what residents will be getting in 10 years, when I qualify......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 10 hours ago, NotEinstein said: The main 'issue' with the UK state pension for non-residents is the fact that the rate is frozen at the time of leaving, which makes it much less appealing - I will only get half the current rate and probably a quarter of what residents will be getting in 10 years, when I qualify......... If I have understood you, that is not correct. With 10 years to go, you can make another 10 years worth of voluntary contributions which will provide 10/35 of the State pension. Plus any that you can pay in arrears now, plus those that you already qualify for. The pension is only frozen on the date you start receiving it, not on the date you left the UK. I have a vague plan to move to the Philippines in a few years. The country is developing very fast under Mr Duterte, who is planning large infrastructure projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard2010 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said: The pension is only frozen on the date you start receiving it, not on the date you left the UK. I have a vague plan to move to the Philippines in a few years. The country is developing very fast under Mr Duterte, who is planning large infrastructure projects. I have friends who have told me It is from the date you leave the UK to go live overseas If you go back for a period you go back to full pension' But when yo leave to go back to your original payment you receive when you left to go live overseas Its a killer for pensioners but a win for the government They are looking into this But they dont realty want to cnange As it will cost the government more money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotEinstein Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 48 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said: If I have understood you, that is not correct. With 10 years to go, you can make another 10 years worth of voluntary contributions which will provide 10/35 of the State pension. Plus any that you can pay in arrears now, plus those that you already qualify for. The pension is only frozen on the date you start receiving it, not on the date you left the UK. I have a vague plan to move to the Philippines in a few years. The country is developing very fast under Mr Duterte, who is planning large infrastructure projects. If this were true, then I could wait 10 years, make 6 payments, which would qualify me for full pension, and get the then rate. If only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Lizard2010 said: I have friends who have told me It is from the date you leave the UK to go live overseas If you go back for a period you go back to full pension' But when yo leave to go back to your original payment you receive when you left to go live overseas Its a killer for pensioners but a win for the government They are looking into this But they dont realty want to cnange As it will cost the government more money Yes, but you have to have started receiving the pension first. If you are living abroad before retirement age then you will get the full pension that you are entitled to on the day you qualify, which would be the same as somebody in the UK. It is then frozen unless you live in a country where there is a social securiy agreement in place. The "fairness for all" governments in the UK are run by self-serving clowns. The reason they do not add inflation increases to those living abroad is because they do not get any extra votes. Much better to give to some pregnant refugee with ten kids. There are twelve potential votes in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 38 minutes ago, NotEinstein said: If this were true, then I could wait 10 years, make 6 payments, which would qualify me for full pension, and get the then rate. If only! I do not understand why you don't seem to believe it. Assuming that means you have 29 years contributions at the moment I suggest you try and pay as many in arrears as possible at the much cheaper class 2 rate now. And then make the annual payments to top up. There is no guarantee that in 2028 you will be able to pay 6 years in arrears. The goal post for how many years you can pay retrospectively has been moved several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy52 Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Thanks everyone, most helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 6 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said: Assuming that means you have 29 years contributions at the moment I suggest you try and pay as many in arrears as possible at the much cheaper class 2 rate now. And then make the annual payments to top up. Only worth buying extra years from 2016 and on, because of the recent changes in the NEW pension. As for what country you're living in, you don't have to tell them, they don't have an address for 40% of pension claimants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 The OP could also try looking in the "Home Country" forum of Thai Visa to get a broader range of answers from UK expats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said: Only worth buying extra years from 2016 and on, because of the recent changes in the NEW pension. As for what country you're living in, you don't have to tell them, they don't have an address for 40% of pension claimants. Not a great idea. They are aware of that possibility and have already prosecuted and claimed back the excess pensions paid. Edited January 24, 2018 by 12DrinkMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 49 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said: Not a great idea. They are aware of that possibility and have already prosecuted and claimed back the excess pensions paid. Link to one case where this has happened? Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 52 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said: Link to one case where this has happened? Please. http://www.chiangraitimes.com/uk-cracks-down-on-expat-pension-benefit-fraud.html https://www.gov.uk/government/news/abroad-fraud-warning-for-benefit-thieves 'nuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/uk-cracks-down-on-expat-pension-benefit-fraud.html https://www.gov.uk/government/news/abroad-fraud-warning-for-benefit-thieves 'nuff? That's benefits fraud, not pension increases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaeJoMTB Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/uk-cracks-down-on-expat-pension-benefit-fraud.html https://www.gov.uk/government/news/abroad-fraud-warning-for-benefit-thieves 'nuff? Link 1 is about benefit fraud, in countries where the pension increase is given. Link 2, also benefit fraud "People who are pretending to live in the UK to claim benefits, but are actually living overseas" So not enough, as you haven't directed me to any link where a person failed to reveal he was living in a country where no increase was allowed, and was later asked for the increase to be repaid. "Abroad fraud involves a range of scams such as people on means-tested benefits going abroad but failing to declare their absence, undeclared property abroad, and individuals working while claiming sickness benefits. In Spain, claims for Income Support or Pension Credit are the most frequently investigated for fraud. " No mention of pension increases. Did you not read your own links, or did you just think I wouldn't? Edited January 25, 2018 by MaeJoMTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said: Link 1 is about benefit fraud, in countries where the pension increase is given. Link 2, also benefit fraud No mention of pension increases. Did you not read your own links, or did you just think I wouldn't? I don't understand why you are separating claiming pension increases by not providing your real address from benefit fraud. They are both fraud. And sooner or later technology will catch up. Sorry, I have failed to find the case I had in mind. Must have been on one of the expat forums I seldom visit. I suppose if you really want to find out, then a quick letter to the UK governemt will provide an interesting reply..... Thinking about it, he may have just had his pension reset without the excess payments being reclaimed. If it does spring back to mind, I'll let you know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerbalm Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Foxy52 said: Thanks everyone, most helpful Regarding your original question, may be this will help,got it from the UK.gov web site... Find a lost National Insurance number You can find your National Insurance number on your payslip, P60, or letters about tax, pensions and benefits. If you have a personal tax account you can also view it there and print a confirmation letter. If you still can’t find it, you can either: fill in form CA5403 and send it to the address on the form phone the National Insurance numbers helpline and answer some questions (you’ll need to fill in form CA5403 if you can’t answer the questions) Regards TB EDIT. Forgot the help line phone numbers. Call this number if you haven’t received your National Insurance number or have lost or forgotten it. Telephone:0300 200 3500 Textphone:0300 200 3519 Outside UK:+ 44 191 203 7010 Edited January 25, 2018 by tigerbalm Wanted to add some thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcgprg Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) On 24/01/2018 at 9:03 AM, Lizard2010 said: I have friends who have told me It is from the date you leave the UK to go live overseas If you go back for a period you go back to full pension' But when yo leave to go back to your original payment you receive when you left to go live overseas Its a killer for pensioners but a win for the government They are looking into this But they dont realty want to cnange As it will cost the government more money It is from the Date you start receiving your pension, the amount you will get less any contracted out years is given on your pension statement forecast. If you visit the uk yes you get the current level while in the UK then it reverts back to the level that was on your pension statement when you leave the UK again . Edited January 25, 2018 by fcgprg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonwilly Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 May I suggest you write a letter to UK Pensions. I did so about 5 years before I was due to receive mine and found them helpful. I have advised 2 younger friends to do the same and both where pleased with the replies. To the best of my knowledge it was John Major who told the pensions authority they must be of assistance to UK tax payers. National Insurance Number is a must as well as old UK address. john I know one UK pensioner who 98 and still receives the same pension as when he turned 65 in1985, not much these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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