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Posted

I think evap. coolers have been done to death in TV, so worth checking for prior postings.

However, evap coolers work best in very low humidity - not really a Thai condition, but I have one and run it occasionally and think l can notice a slight difference. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Cheers - found it... kinda as expected. 

 

I guess will find a dehumidifier or buy small AC and only use in dehumidifier mode

 

got a larger connected living / dinning room - maybe about 5 x 15 meters with high ceiling - even small AC would be ok ie 9000 btu?

 

Posted

with a Dehumidifier, or an aircon on Dehumid...

you do realise there be no lowering of the output temperature into your room?

 

 

you'll need to decide if it's just the Humidity, or the Temp which you wish to control...

 

 

I get impression you are focussing on the portable on-wheels type?

 

if so, the downfall is that your unit will be drawing in the cooler near-floor air, and that the output is at floor level - so the ceiling fans will be really needed to get that hot room air better mixed... the hot air in the room will otherwise stay undisturbed in the room - up at head height

Posted
with a Dehumidifier, or an aircon on Dehumid... you do realise there be no lowering of the output temperature into your room?

 

 

you'll need to decide if it's just the Humidity, or the Temp which you wish to control...

 

 

I get impression you are focussing on the portable on-wheels type?

 

if so, the downfall is that your unit will be drawing in the cooler near-floor air, and that the output is at floor level - so the ceiling fans will be really needed to get that hot room air better mixed... the hot air in the room will otherwise stay undisturbed in the room - up at head height

 

 

 

Would like to try de humid first and see how that goes. Any cheap units ?

 

Good news is I have tile floors and th ceiling is 6.7 m high .... so all the hot air can live up there during the day

 

Have a lot of windows, but the house is aligned East to west , so we get light , but never direct sun in the house

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, skippybangkok said:

 

 

Would like to try de humid first and see how that goes. Any cheap units ?

 

Good news is I have tile floors and th ceiling is 6.7 m high .... so all the hot air can live up there during the day

 

Have a lot of windows, but the house is aligned East to west , so we get light , but never direct sun in the house

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

6.7m, are you living in a Gothic cathedral? ?

Edited by Artisi
Posted
2 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

 

 

Would like to try de humid first and see how that goes. Any cheap units ?

 

Good news is I have tile floors and th ceiling is 6.7 m high .... so all the hot air can live up there during the day

 

Have a lot of windows, but the house is aligned East to west , so we get light , but never direct sun in the house

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

Just a point of inquiry?

 

You do realize that a dehumidifier and an air conditioner are exactly the same thing, correct? The only difference is an air conditioner vents it's exhaust outside, and a dehumidifier blows the exhaust inside. So you can buy any portable air conditioner and turn it on without running the flexible tube out a window. That configuration is identical to a dehumidifier.

 

My question is, given that the thermodynamic efficiency difference between dumping heat inside vs. outside is very small, why would anyone use a dehumidifier in Thailand when they can use the same equipment as an air conditioner? It certainly can't be due to power consumption because there is negligible savings, it can't be due to cost because they have exactly the same components, and I have never once been in a situation here where I found I wanted to simultaneously heat the room while reducing moisture.

 

I'm just confused what the OP is trying to accomplish. Is he trying to save electricity or acquisition cost, and why would a dehumidifier do either?

 

 

 

Posted
20 minutes ago, Monomial said:

You do realize that a dehumidifier and an air conditioner are exactly the same thing, correct? The only difference is an air conditioner vents it's exhaust outside, and a dehumidifier blows the exhaust inside. So you can buy any portable air conditioner and turn it on without running the flexible tube out a window. That configuration is identical to a dehumidifier.

goodness gracious man! please have mercy. even my dogs are laughing about your dehumidifying "configuration".

 

and the same applies to the comment of this learned gentleman:

Quote
tifino said:
with a Dehumidifier, or an aircon on Dehumid... you do realise there be no lowering of the output temperature into your room?

 

  • Like 1
Posted
5 hours ago, Artisi said:

6.7m, are you living in a Gothic cathedral? ?

 

Lol... 2 story house, but 1/2 half of the second floor I like mezzanine floor. So part of first floor has 3m ceiling, and the other half goes up to 6.7 meters. Real fun window / curtain cleaning job :) 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

Just a point of inquiry?

 

You do realize that a dehumidifier and an air conditioner are exactly the same thing, correct? The only difference is an air conditioner vents it's exhaust outside, and a dehumidifier blows the exhaust inside. So you can buy any portable air conditioner and turn it on without running the flexible tube out a window. That configuration is identical to a dehumidifier.

 

My question is, given that the thermodynamic efficiency difference between dumping heat inside vs. outside is very small, why would anyone use a dehumidifier in Thailand when they can use the same equipment as an air conditioner? It certainly can't be due to power consumption because there is negligible savings, it can't be due to cost because they have exactly the same components, and I have never once been in a situation here where I found I wanted to simultaneously heat the room while reducing moisture.

 

I'm just confused what the OP is trying to accomplish. Is he trying to save electricity or acquisition cost, and why would a dehumidifier do either?

 

 

 

 Err... one would have to be pretty dumb not to realise it.

 

Its simple - Below

 

5a6c73d38a2db_ScreenShot2018-01-27at7_41_52pm.png.e42981267e5108c0a0c03e30118a5af1.png

 

 

When I am in Australia, people will tell me " its 37 degrees today", and I look at them baffled, cause it feels to me like 28 for Bangkokians. Simple reason  - very dry air compared to BKK.

 

So, was wondering if I can remove humidity, and just use fans in the house, it might be just nice.  I am quite acclimatised ie today dont need aircon, just a fan and all is well. 

 

So - going back to the question, if I were to aircon the room, at 75 sqm down stairs, that is a lot of BTU. We already have big aircon, 3 phase which will chew about 16,000 baht per month.  Was looking to install a small ie 9000 BTU aircon and just use it in dehumidifier mode to dry the air...

 

Engineering wise, I understand th maths, just wondering if anyone has tried it and does it work or not ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted
5 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

So - going back to the question, if I were to aircon the room, at 75 sqm down stairs, that is a lot of BTU. We already have big aircon, 3 phase which will chew about 16,000 baht per month.  Was looking to install a small ie 9000 BTU aircon and just use it in dehumidifier mode to dry the air...

 

Engineering wise, I understand th maths, just wondering if anyone has tried it and does it work or not ?

it does not work because the dehumidifying mode adds a mere 15-20% to the normal dehumidification of an aircon. installing a 9,000 btu/h in a room of your size and volume to dehumidify has the same effect as a fart during a hurricane. "engineering wise" you made a wrong assumption pertaining to the "dehumidification mode".

 

by the way... thanks for the info how many Baht the cooling of your home requires. it shows i'm not the only one with an electricity bill between 15,000 and 22,000 Baht in the hot season.

Posted
1 hour ago, Naam said:

same effect as a fart during a hurricane

If you fart in the same direction that the wind is blowing it will go a long way!:sorry::post-4641-1156694572:

  • Haha 1
Posted
it does not work because the dehumidifying mode adds a mere 15-20% to the normal dehumidification of an aircon. installing a 9,000 btu/h in a room of your size and volume to dehumidify has the same effect as a fart during a hurricane. "engineering wise" you made a wrong assumption pertaining to the "dehumidification mode".
 
by the way... thanks for the info how many Baht the cooling of your home requires. it shows i'm not the only one with an electricity bill between 15,000 and 22,000 Baht in the hot season.


Thanks. Insights I was looking for

I have a 10 year old built into the ceiling aircon..... 3 phase.... it loves to chew power


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Posted
4 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

I have a 10 year old built into the ceiling aircon..... 3 phase.... it loves to chew power

"ceiling mounted" is your main problem Skippy. it means that you are unnecessarily cooling air volume where actual cooling is not required. think of replacing the ceiling unit with two or three smaller units mounted at a height of 2.0-2.5m and you'll recover your capital outlay in no time.

  • Like 1
Posted
7 hours ago, Naam said:

"ceiling mounted" is your main problem Skippy. it means that you are unnecessarily cooling air volume where actual cooling is not required. think of replacing the ceiling unit with two or three smaller units mounted at a height of 2.0-2.5m and you'll recover your capital outlay in no time.

 

Cheers  - in the planning.  

 

Today turned on the AC in in dehumidifier mod the elders bedroom ( ground floor ) and used a fan to blow the dry  / cooler air out. Nanny who is all day with my boys said it felt cooler. Will see

 

p.s. real stupid question - my sister bought an older house in Oz which has floor heating, not air ducts, but tubes of hot water which heat up the floor. Feels super good and she say way cheaper than any other type of heating.  Wondering if it had ever been done for cooling....  ie if worked, it would only cool ie the first 1 or 2 meters ... 

 

just an idea...

 

 

Posted
8 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

real stupid question - my sister bought an older house in Oz which has floor heating, not air ducts, but tubes of hot water which heat up the floor. Feels super good and she say way cheaper than any other type of heating.  Wondering if it had ever been done for cooling....  ie if worked, it would only cool ie the first 1 or 2 meters ... 

 

just an idea...

basically there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. yes, in theory cooling with cold water can be done and is done in many office buildings and hotels. but only replacing refrigerant with cold water. circulating cold water in a floor is absolutely inefficient (cold air does not rise). moreover, the floor will become slippery with condense water.

  • Like 1
Posted

FWIW we very rarely use our aircon. in anything other than dehumidify mode, that is sufficient for our needs to lower the temperature just enough to make things pleasant. But our house is very energy efficient and well insulated so perhaps not a solution for everyone.

Posted
9 hours ago, skippybangkok said:

p.s. real stupid question - my sister bought an older house in Oz which has floor heating, not air ducts, but tubes of hot water which heat up the floor. Feels super good and she say way cheaper than any other type of heating.  Wondering if it had ever been done for cooling....  ie if worked, it would only cool ie the first 1 or 2 meters ... 

As Naam has said it would cool the floor and provide a nice slick surface for people to fall on due to condensation, if you put it in the walls instead then you would have a nice water pool all round the skirting.

 

Contrary to the advice given so far a proper dehumidifier (upwards of 30,000 Baht) that you can run the exhaust water into a house drain will be very much more effective, and cheaper to run, than an AC on dehumidifier mode.

 

Depending on price you will be extracting 16L~45L per 24 hour period, English language humidifier the linked information has a different named version available in thailand.

Posted

I'm not 100% certain but I seem to recall that running an aircon unit in dehumidify mode is about the same as in the aircon mode, the compressor has to run in both cases.

Posted
5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm not 100% certain but I seem to recall that running an aircon unit in dehumidify mode is about the same as in the aircon mode, the compressor has to run in both cases.

that is only partly correct and depends on the manufacturer. during a "real" and efficient dehumidification cycle the compressor is stopped for short periods causing a much lower temperature at the evaporation fins and therefore higher dehumidification. the simpler version is to reduce fan speed till a lower evaporator temperature is achieved and then increasing fan speed again to prevent icing.

  • Like 1
Posted
20 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

As Naam has said it would cool the floor and provide a nice slick surface for people to fall on due to condensation, if you put it in the walls instead then you would have a nice water pool all round the skirting.

and putting the pipes in the ceiling causes a nice and relaxing drip... drip... drip... of cold water. :)

Posted
1 hour ago, Naam said:

and putting the pipes in the ceiling causes a nice and relaxing drip... drip... drip... of cold water. :)

But water can and is, as you mentioned, used for cooling.  But the fan coil units are much the same as for a normal airconditioner - just use water as cooling medium.  Air water is removed and drained as normal.   Believe this is still one of the largest makers.

  http://www.edwards-eng.com/products.htm

Posted
56 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

But water can and is, as you mentioned, used for cooling.  But the fan coil units are much the same as for a normal airconditioner - just use water as cooling medium.  Air water is removed and drained as normal. 

correct!

Posted
On 1/27/2018 at 5:09 PM, Monomial said:

Just a point of inquiry?

 

You do realize that a dehumidifier and an air conditioner are exactly the same thing, correct? The only difference is an air conditioner vents it's exhaust outside, and a dehumidifier blows the exhaust inside. So you can buy any portable air conditioner and turn it on without running the flexible tube out a window. That configuration is identical to a dehumidifier.

With lots of imagination and a few tools you are kind of correct.

Most dedicated dehumidifiers will pass the room air through the cold evaporator through the hot condenser and back to the room.
 

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Naam said:

basically there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. yes, in theory cooling with cold water can be done and is done in many office buildings and hotels. but only replacing refrigerant with cold water. circulating cold water in a floor is absolutely inefficient (cold air does not rise). moreover, the floor will become slippery with condense water.

So here's a thought. One has pipes in the walls and the water is cooled by a small cooling tower. Now the min on can expect from a cooling tower in thailand (although area specific) is in the region of 27 degC  As cooling tower performance is based on evaporation, wouldn't the system be self regulating as far as interior condensation is concerned. Then a de-humidifier could be used to regulate humidity if fans to move air are not sufficient.

Edited by VocalNeal
Posted
3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

So here's a thought. One has pipes in the walls and the water is cooled by a small cooling tower. Now the min on can expect from a cooling tower in thailand (although area specific) is in the region of 27 degC  As cooling tower performance is based on evaporation, wouldn't the system be self regulating as far as interior condensation is concerned. Then a de-humidifier could be used to regulate humidity if fans to move air are not sufficient.

incorrect assumption mate. a cooling tower is only an additional part of a water cooling system which cools medium water by means of a chiller that works (exceptions exist) with a compressor and refrigerant to cool the water via a heat-exchanger. the tower's part of the actual cooling is ~10-15% and on it's own it wouldn't work at all in a tropical environment like Thailand's.

Posted

When I hit the enter button - thought about condensation on the floor - would have no choice but to use a dehumidifier too.

Still wondering if just cooling the tiles would have any value ? - I guess that the cold air hovers low to the ground might be a benefit but then the underside should be insulated

All theoretical and don’t even know results

Dream dream


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Posted
16 hours ago, Naam said:

incorrect assumption mate. a cooling tower is only an additional part of a water cooling system which cools medium water by means of a chiller that works (exceptions exist) with a compressor and refrigerant to cool the water via a heat-exchanger. the tower's part of the actual cooling is ~10-15% and on it's own it wouldn't work at all in a tropical environment like Thailand's.

I was thinking only of running the water through a small tower 

 

Mini-cooling-tower.jpg_200x200.jpg

 

One sees them from time to time in industrial surplus places (junk yards on the Chonburi motorway). 

 

The only power consumed would be the fan and a small circulating pump. 

 

Just a theory. I would have to work out the costs or running and the physics. 

 

 

Posted
I was thinking only of running the water through a small tower 
 
Mini-cooling-tower.jpg_200x200.jpg&key=3ea5312c45c8c11fdf85b914cf8203c891c1f52afe9ea56a21fb06f1024da767
 
One sees them from time to time in industrial surplus places (junk yards on the Chonburi motorway). 
 
The only power consumed would be the fan and a small circulating pump. 
 
Just a theory. I would have to work out the costs or running and the physics. 
 
 



Don’t think it will help much. Cooling towers are linked to chillers ( compressors ), and are basically just another version of the aluminium heat exchangers you see with typical compressor units

A tower without the chiller / compressor I don’t think will deliver much - but don’t let me distract you , if cheaper trial , see and tell us


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  • Like 1
Posted

Experiment worked.....

 

turned on small AC in down stairs bedroom in de-humid mode ( the kind for typical thai house - the ones parents use on ground floor ) - used a fan to push out the dryer air.

 

Worked good. 

 

Today was bad, heavy rain followed by sun, so very humid, but everyone in the house said it felt cooler and manageable . will try some more

Posted
On 1/30/2018 at 1:09 PM, skippybangkok said:

Don’t think it will help much. Cooling towers are linked to chillers ( compressors ), and are basically just another version of the aluminium heat exchangers you see with typical compressor units

A tower without the chiller / compressor I don’t think will deliver much - but don’t let me distract you , if cheaper trial , see and tell us

 

Cooling towers don't use chillers. At least not the one's I've seen. I bought some once for an oxygen plant, the specs said in that part of Thailand the lowest design temperature is 27C.

But don't let me distract you from you view point that cooling towers use chillers. ( worked on chillers as well. Steam powered absorption chillers to chill water)

 

 

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