When Farangs Go Native

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Chrisdoc said:

 

 

 

 

I work in retail here and there. Some customers think they should get respect because I am only a salesperson. I give them respect but still think they are a- holes. I live with a Thai family out of town without much farung contact. They are nice to me but deep down, because I am a foreigner I am sure I am at the bottom of their social order. The OP might think he is above the shop person but deep down they probably think he is just another farung with no social status.

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Given they probably assume you are a farang working illegally, you are probably lucky they only disrespect you and don't call the cops on you.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Actually the 'kee' used as a prefix for a noun (aka 'kee nok') does mean 'shit'.

The 'kee' used as a prefix for a verb/adjective translates as 'person who xxxx excessively'.

 

with noun

kee nok = bird poop

kee maa = dog poop

 

with verb (or maybe adjective)

kee maow = drunk (person who drinks excessively)

kee kiat = person who is excessively lazy

 

Difference is prefix for NOUN or VERB ..... got it?

What would the effect of addressing a Thai as "maa" without "kee" prefixing it?

[JAG]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What would the effect of addressing a Thai as "maa" without "kee" prefixing it?

A jolly sore mouth?

??

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

To much thought is always given to this subject (which hypocritically I'm also posting on !).... 

 

Some seem to try too hard to either fit in or to try hard to maintain their Western identity... this seems to encompass the prolific 'over Wai-er' or the type who refuses to Wai anyone.... then there are those who claim they have no wish to mix with other Farangs (they didn't move to Thailand to talk with Farangs!).... 

 

These preconceived notions and attitudes just seem down right daft...  Life is much simpler than some seem to make it... By simply being yourself, being polite and behaving naturally the issues of social interaction are non existent and its easy enough to fit in, develop mutual levels of respect etc.... 

 

I guess this is what the Op points out - Don't lose respect by trying to 'over do it'... just be yourself... it makes sense. 

 

Caveat: If by being yourself you are an ignorant twit then you are facing an up hill struggle!

 

I think you are saying not to worry, just be happy. Always a good policy in life.

Those that think cultural symbols are important, IMO, are concentrating on the wrong things. Waiing Thai children because one couldn't be bothered to do any research whatsoever on Thai customs before arriving is a nonsense when said persons spend their entire time in Thailand with their face in a machine, or getting a tan by an hotel pool, rather than actually getting out and seeing Thailand.

I was astounded when, long ago before the machine era, I spent a few hours watching the Songkran parade and mingling with the locals on Sanam Luang, then on going to the bagpacker zoo of Khao San I found every bar full of dread headed bagpackers boasting to each other about all the places they'd been, man, but never saw a wonderful display of Thai culture only a 5 minute walk away.

[MaeJoMTB]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What would the effect of addressing a Thai as "maa" without "kee" prefixing it?

Needs to be in sentence

kee maa = dog poop

maa leaw = I'm here

by wat maa = I just come back from the temple

kee maa = horse ride

 

Too many maa's

Edited February 1, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[OldSiamHand]

21 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

No need to do anything, serving staff should be below your notice.

Wrong.  You return the wai.  The person "below your notice" will be the one initiating the wai. and not returning the wai makes you a douche.

[MaeJoMTB]

1 minute ago, OldSiamHand said:

Wrong.  You return the wai.  The person "below your notice" will be the one initiating the wai. and not returning the wai makes you a douche.

It would make me 'not Thai'

[johng]

2 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Too many maa's

If from Supanburi   Mair Gor Maa   Poor Gor Maa    

 

An idiom  Kee heng jub Dta Maa

[impulse]

21 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

A similar example back home would be a waiter may refer to you as Sir/ madam, Mr etc. but you dont often call the waiter Sir.

 

Sometimes I do.  Especially if they're good at their job.  It's just a term of respect, not a reflection of status or station in life. 

 

And I certainly don't cringe when I see someone else doing it.  Which seems to be the gist of the OP.

 

And besides (taking the pragmatic piss here...), forgetting that we're all human beings getting along on the planet the best we can, what are the odds of someone spitting in my food if I treat them with respect?  And if I treat them with derision?  Sometimes I forget, but I always try to remember that getting what I need in life often depends on "the little people" going out of their way to get it for me.  And a little bit of extra respect costs me nothing, and may pay back in spades at some future date.

 

When in doubt, I try to err toward too much respect.  As if there is such a thing as treating a fellow human being with too much respect.  So I have no problems with the foreigners who wai when others wouldn't.

 

[Chrisdoc]

Given they probably assume you are a farang working illegally, you are probably lucky they only disrespect you and don't call the cops on you.

Is very presumptuous. I can earn around $16000 AUD in 7 weeks in Australia on commission running a Xmas shop as am the company's top salesperson. I can live comfortably with that in Thailand as I have simple tastes and do not work in Thailand. My wife's family have lived in the village for 100's of years. They are respected locally and they are all nice to me but I am still a foreigner so I am always an outsider. Ps. My father in law used to be the Captain at Pattaya police station so I don't think what you say is going to happen.

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[MaeJoMTB]

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

And besides (taking the pragmatic piss here...), forgetting that we're all human beings getting along on the planet the best we can, what are the odds of someone spitting in my food if I treat them with respect?  And if I treat them with derision?  Sometimes I forget, but I always try to remember that getting what I need in life often depends on "the little people" going out of their way to get it for me.  And a little bit of extra respect costs me nothing, and may pay back in spades at some future date.

I don't think of foreigners as 'fellow human beings'

I go with the Thais on this one, "my chai paw, my chai mare"

Loosely translated as "if not my family, friend or countrymen, F$#@ 'em"

 

Clearly I am more Thai than you.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[ravip]

22 hours ago, Thian said:

Maybe those thaier than thai farangs don't know that not all thai like the way things go in their country.

 

My wife had so much fun when she saw a farang being angry at the staff of the Toyota garage....he was yelling about what all went wrong there and that it was too expensive...(it's a very big toyota dealer).

 

The staff called assistance and 6 of them were trying to explain it to him since none of them could speak english. My wife was sitting there and kept her mouth shut and was also angry with the bad service she got but she didn't dare to mention it.

 

So she was happy that the farang told them the truth and even more because they all looked so stupid for not being able to speak english.

 

She didn't want to be the translator so they would understand how important it is to speak english and to not cheat a farang (or his wife).

 

 

...they all looked so stupid for not being able to speak English.

... how important it is to speak English

 

I don't condone cheating anyone under any circumstance.

But, in Farang Land to they speak Thai or any other language the customer/Foreigner speaks?

Hmmm...

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by ravip

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Chrisdoc said:

Is very presumptuous. I can earn around $16000 AUD in 7 weeks in Australia on commission running a Xmas shop as am the company's top salesperson. I can live comfortably with that in Thailand as I have simple tastes and do not work in Thailand. My wife's family have lived in the village for 100's of years. They are respected locally and they are all nice to me but I am still a foreigner so I am always an outsider. Ps. My father in law used to be the Captain at Pattaya police station so I don't think what you say is going to happen.

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You indicated in your post that you worked as a salesperson, and as you did not say in which country, and this is an exclusively Thai subject sub forum, I understood it as you are saying you work in Thailand, which would be illegal.

 

 

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I work in retail here and there. Some customers think they should get respect because I am only a salesperson. I give them respect but still think they are a- holes. I live with a Thai family out of town without much farung contact.

 

[impulse]

17 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

It would make me 'not Thai'

 

Bad news.  That's not what makes any of us "not Thai".

 

10 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I don't think of foreigners as 'fellow human beings'

I go with the Thais on this one, "my chai paw, my chai mare"

Loosely translated as "if not my family, friend or countrymen, F$#@ 'em"

 

Clearly I am more Thai than you.

 

Not if you believe what you've just posted.  We'll never be accepted as Thai.  But that's okay by me even if that means I'm looked down upon- as long as I get treated decently.  Which I have -for the most part- over the past 6+ years in Thailand and 17+ years in China.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Thian said:

Maybe those thaier than thai farangs don't know that not all thai like the way things go in their country.

 

My wife had so much fun when she saw a farang being angry at the staff of the Toyota garage....he was yelling about what all went wrong there and that it was too expensive...(it's a very big toyota dealer).

 

The staff called assistance and 6 of them were trying to explain it to him since none of them could speak english. My wife was sitting there and kept her mouth shut and was also angry with the bad service she got but she didn't dare to mention it.

 

So she was happy that the farang told them the truth and even more because they all looked so stupid for not being able to speak english.

 

She didn't want to be the translator so they would understand how important it is to speak english and to not cheat a farang (or his wife).

 

 

If the farang didn't get a quote BEFORE getting it fixed it's his own fault if it's too expensive. 

The only stupid person was the farang that tried to argue with Thais when he can't speak Thai.

I'm not surprised that Thais get PO with farangs when so many are like that ignorant idiot.

[Chrisdoc]

 

I did say 'here and there'.

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[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Bad news.  That's not what makes any of us "not Thai".

 

 

Not if you believe what you've just posted.  We'll never be accepted as Thai.  But that's okay by me even if that means I'm looked down upon- as long as I get treated decently.  Which I have -for the most part- over the past 6+ years in Thailand and 17+ years in China.

 

I too have been treated decently in LOS for the most part, except by my Thai family, but even so, I never felt any desire to be a faux Thai, and none of the Thais I met expected me to be so.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Chrisdoc said:

I did say 'here and there'.

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Exactly, here and there IN THAILAND.

 

It's in a THAILAND ONLY related sub forum. If you want to reference what goes on outside Thailand it would behoove you to make that clear, unless you want misunderstandings.

[speedtripler]

38 minutes ago, OldSiamHand said:

Wrong.  You return the wai.  The person "below your notice" will be the one initiating the wai. and not returning the wai makes you a douche.

You don't wai service staff lol

They must think you're a complete tool....  

[Rc2702]

Yh this thread could be interesting. I see a guy who has gone native big time. Blames everything on a person's lifestyle choices and more than anything believes Thais virtually do no wrong. I wonder what he thinks when he actually watches the news and people from thailand do something wrong. Have been hammering this guy a bit online with some other chaps amd I actually think it's working.  These bloggers can dig themselves in a bit deep and back them self into a corner. This guy actually published that he never makes mistakes and learns something 1st time every time. Guys been here 25+ years and cannot think of 1 single mistake he ever made. The stupidest thing I have ever heard frankly.

[DM07]

1 hour ago, johnhw said:

I read this and am totally ashamed of myself!!! Just bussed back to ChiangRai from MaeSai with a fat, tattooed, black sunglassed and baseball-capped  falang who had his arm resting on his pack beside him--the only unoccupied seat on the bus. Three feet away was a small hill tribe lady struggling unsuccessfully with an infant in her arms. After a good while, it took the ticket collector to ask him to move his bag and give the lady and kid the seat.

 

I am ashamed, because I'm one of your "Thai'er -than- Thai" folks because I had this incredible urged to punch this bag of excrement in his cool-dude white face, not realizing, of course,  that if I had the wisdom and experience of long-timers here, or especially the wisdom of these TV strings, I would realize this behaviour is no worse than among Thais themselves. .....probably worse....and me with my scant experience here is unqualified to make a judgement.

And no, have never yet seen this done by a Thai (and would have the similar urge if it did)

"And no, have never yet seen this done by a Thai..."

Oh...I see!

So you moved here last week!?

 

Noooo...I get it: Thais are all such angelic creatures, they never fail to be polite, they are always respectful towards everybody, never lie, cheat or behave like absolute a- holes!

Never!

It's all farangs, who behave like douches!

Got it!

Edited February 1, 2018 by DM07

[Chrisdoc]

Exactly, here and there IN THAILAND.
 
It's in a THAILAND ONLY related sub forum. If you want to reference what goes on outside Thailand it would behoove you to make that clear, unless you want misunderstandings.

If you want to talk relevance the post was about whether to wai to shop workers. Starting to talk about whether people in my village think I'm illegal is stretching relevance. To keep you happy I can post my resume if you like.

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[Beats56]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Perhaps ask your son if you use sawadee cup to a cashier, after they wai you.  

A low wai is optional, as is perhaps a "thank you" in Thai. I'll assume you know how to say thank you in Thai.

Well I discussed this with my wife. She said it is ok to sawdee. But I am not talking about a cashier. It is when one of her family comes over for a visit and they Wai me because I  am elder to them and i greet them with a hello or sawdee cup. Perfectly ok.

Yes I know how to say thank you in Thai.

[Rc2702]

Just now, Chrisdoc said:

If you want to talk relevance the post was about whether to wai to shop workers. Starting to talk about whether people in my village think I'm illegal is stretching relevance. To keep you happy I can post my resume if you like.

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I would give the head nod to a shop worker after they wai me and providing I'm pleased. I would not wai a child but I'd smile back and be receptive. I believe these are acceptable forms of respect here in those 2 cases

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, johnhw said:

I read this and am totally ashamed of myself!!! Just bussed back to ChiangRai from MaeSai with a fat, tattooed, black sunglassed and baseball-capped  falang who had his arm resting on his pack beside him--the only unoccupied seat on the bus. Three feet away was a small hill tribe lady struggling unsuccessfully with an infant in her arms. After a good while, it took the ticket collector to ask him to move his bag and give the lady and kid the seat.

I am ashamed, because I'm one of your "Thai'er -than- Thai" folks because I had this incredible urged to punch this bag of excrement in his cool-dude white face, not realizing, of course,  that if I had the wisdom and experience of long-timers here, or especially the wisdom of these TV strings, I would realize this behaviour is no worse than among Thais themselves. .....probably worse....and me with my scant experience here is unqualified to make a judgement.

And no, have never yet seen this done by a Thai (and would have the similar urge if it did)

Instead of getting infuriated and waiting for the bus ticket collector to ask him to move his bag, why didnt you ask him ?

   Also, why didnt you take the mini bus instead of the local bus ?

 

[Tom Cahill]

On 31/01/2018 at 1:11 PM, Misterwhisper said:

I cannot even begin to describe how much I cringe when I see foreigners waiing everyone from supermarket cashiers to restaurant waiters, fish mongers in the wet market to go-go dancers, totally convinced that staying in the kingdom for a couple of months has made them "native" and that they're doing the right thing.

 

Even worse are those fellas I occasionally bump into at a bar,  those who think they have matured into genuine "Thailand experts" by spending two short vacations here and who feel compelled to start lecturing me about the Thai way of life, what to do and what not to do and who brag about their fantastic Thai-language skills (usually consisting of a few disjointed and wrongly pronounced words), and who are entirely ignorant of the fact that I've been living here for well over a quarter of a century, speak the local language almost fluently, and yes, know when, how and whom to wai. Brrrrr... shudder.

It's even better when they say that  'I'm[we're] down with the local culture'  and they've not realised that the people they  'learned the culture from'  are actually Burmese.

[OldSiamHand]

59 minutes ago, speedtripler said:

You don't wai service staff lol

They must think you're a complete tool....  

Yes, I'm sure they think that.  Here ya go.  http://www.whywai.com/to-wai-or-not-to-wai.htm

 

I'm neither royalty nor a monk, but I'll at least acknowledge a wai from someone (if not a return wai, a nod of the head and smile).

[JAG]

For what it is worth, I rather suspect that most Thais are sufficiently sensible and open minded to accept that we, whether we "wai", smile or nod, are being polite and sociable according to our ways.

 

Personally I try to smile and say hello to anyone who interacts with me. With my colleagues, who will occasionally make a casual "wai" in the morning, I return it, with children I say hello, and with my elders I will wai. I don't fret, and they don't seem to fret about me. If you look relatively presentable and seem pleasant you should get by.

 

As for going native, one of the most central traits in Thai culture is personal hygiene. From my (limited) experience not mirrored in the fishermen's pants and braided hair brigade.

 

Besides -we all look the same...

[wildewillie89]

Obviously not much wrong in the world if the thing that makes people tick is when a farang wai a cashier. I just asked my Thai colleagues sitting next to me and they seem to think that we don't usually wai back but that doesn't mean there is a set rule that you cant wai back (so do as you please). Funnily enough, the person that probably cares the least about the whole thing is the actual cashier. I am sure the cashiers are intelligent enough to realise the farang didn't grow up with these customs and is just doing what he thinks is polite, and if anything, is probably more appreciative of it than worrying about it. 

Wai if you want to wai, don't wai if you don't want to. Just don't be overly rude in what you decide to do. Yes, some Thai think farang who learn customs to the nth degree are cute, some think they are try hards and lose respect for them. On the flip side, some Thai think farang who don't learn customs and make mistakes are cute and some think they should try harder. Personality and interpretation is obviously different with each person, so I don't think there are any firm rules for farang so just be yourself. If the biggest worry is another farang cringing and Thai cashiers not giving two damns, that says more about the other farang than you. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by wildewillie89

[Chrisdoc]

I would give the head nod to a shop worker after they wai me and providing I'm pleased. I would not wai a child but I'd smile back and be receptive. I believe these are acceptable forms of respect here in those 2 cases

I read the original post to my Thai wife about not returning a wai to shop workers. Her comment was he was "rude farung". I understand you are not meant to wai back to children but I do because they learn from mimicking. It is interesting in this discussion where the posters come from. I do not ascribe to archaic systems of class(be they Thai or anywhere), but I know in some countries they are built in. I try to be nice and respectful to anyone. If a shop worker calls me sir I will call him sir in return. If someone wai 's I will return it and don't really care what a journalist seeking a reaction says. I also say it becomes an innate reaction. Get on the plane and the steward wai's and you return it. Next you go to immigration and you wai the officer. Meet family and wai them. It just becomes a habit.

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