rooster59 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Man charged over armor-piercing bullet sale to Las Vegas gunman Reuters LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A man suspected of selling armor-piercing bullets to the Las Vegas gunman who killed 58 people at a music festival was charged on Friday with conspiracy to manufacture and sell such ammunition without a license. Douglas Haig, 55, of Mesa, Arizona, became the first person arrested and charged in connection with the Oct. 1 massacre, which ranks as the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. The gunman, Stephen Paddock, who strafed a crowd of concert-goers from his high-rise suite at the Mandalay Bay hotel, killed himself before police stormed his room. No clear motive for the massacre has ever been determined. According to the criminal complaint against Haig, filed in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, he met with Paddock on more than one occasion, including once at Haig's home the month before the shooting to sell ammunition to Paddock, the U.S. attorney's office in Las Vegas said in a statement. It said Haig previously ran an internet business, called Specialized Military Ammunition, selling armor-piercing bullets - some consisting of high-explosive and incendiary rounds - throughout the United States, but lacked a license to manufacture such ammunition. Haig is charged with a single count of conspiracy to manufacture and sell armor-piercing ammunition, which carries a maximum penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, according to the statement. Prosecutors said Haig's fingerprints were found on some of the unfired high-caliber rounds at the crime scene and that armor-piercing casings recovered from Paddock's hotel room bore tool marks matching the "reloading" equipment they said Haig used to assemble ammunition cartridges. Haig made an initial court appearance before a federal magistrate in Phoenix and was freed under conditional release pending a Feb. 15 status conference set for the case, prosecutors said. In addition to the 58 people killed by Paddock in the Las Vegas massacre, nearly 500 people were injured, some by gunfire, others trampled or otherwise hurt while running for cover. Police said Paddock had equipped 12 of the weapons found in his room with bump-stock devices that enable semi-automatic rifles to be fired as if they are fully automatic machine guns. -- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Some people, anything for a buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 See, laws don’t prevent illegal purchase so there should be no laws restricting the 2nd Amendment! Or so the reasoning goes in the minds of the right wing Americans..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how241 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Were any of those rounds actually uses in this shooting ?? otherwise, it is kind of another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Seems AP rounds are actually legal in the US. While I support the right of sane people without criminal convictions or belonging to gangs etc to own weapons, I don't see why anyone would need such, or automatic/ bump stock weapons for self defence or hunting. I think the pro gun owners consider any attempt to ban such as the thin end of the wedge for more extreme bans, as they quite rightly don't trust liberal/ anti gun politicians. That the NRA can "own" so many politicians that they can't even ban AP rounds only proves how bad the American political system is. The system is broken, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how241 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Seems AP rounds are actually legal in the US. While I support the right of sane people without criminal convictions or belonging to gangs etc to own weapons, I don't see why anyone would need such, or automatic/ bump stock weapons for self defence or hunting. I think the pro gun owners consider any attempt to ban such as the thin end of the wedge for more extreme bans, as they quite rightly don't trust liberal/ anti gun politicians. That the NRA can "own" so many politicians that they can't even ban AP rounds only proves how bad the American political system is. The system is broken, obviously. Agree...There are many legal weapons which just are too 'war-like' for the average person, hunter, or home self-defense needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, wwest5829 said: See, laws don’t prevent illegal purchase so there should be no laws restricting the 2nd Amendment! Or so the reasoning goes in the minds of the right wing Americans..... Not only right wing Americans. I come from a country with very strict gun laws. Guess, only once since 1945 a registered gun was used in a killing. But illegal guns were and are used on a regular basis for criminal deeds. Now, what do you think, will even stricter laws on legal possession of firearms help to combat illegal guns? Don't think so, there is no way police and justice can curb illegal guns. It's all about state of mind of people, laws don't really help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
how241 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Yes, it is way too late to think that gun laws can control guns...There are millions of guns in the USA and many more around the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 12 hours ago, how241 said: Yes, it is way too late to think that gun laws can control guns...There are millions of guns in the USA and many more around the world... Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals never have a problem obtaining weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaanbanhou Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals never have a problem obtaining weapons. No not in a nation that has twice as many guns as 50 years ago and only a 25% increase in population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 See, laws don’t prevent illegal purchase so there should be no laws restricting the 2nd Amendment! Or so the reasoning goes in the minds of the right wing Americans.....I agree. And obviously the authors of the constitution 200 years ago clearly meant armour piecing bullets should be included in the right to bear arms, so should not be illegal in the first place. Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals never have a problem obtaining weapons.I don't buy that argument. All illegal weapons start off as legal weapons. The more legal weapons, the more illegal weapons...Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, brucec64 said: I agree. And obviously the authors of the constitution 200 years ago clearly meant armour piecing bullets should be included in the right to bear arms, so should not be illegal in the first place. Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app And bazookas, tanks, etc. I do not comprehend why my fellow countrymen do not accept reasonable restrictions rather than stonewalling. But I guess stone walling (or walls with other materials are in vogue in some circles. In light of full disclosure, I should state that I am a gun owner with a CDWL. Just not a extremist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwest5829 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: Laws only affect law abiding people. Criminals never have a problem obtaining weapons. Is this not true of all laws? The danger is wh3n the majority come to regard the laws as not being fair in protecting the majority interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 hours ago, brucec64 said: I don't buy that argument. All illegal weapons start off as legal weapons. The more legal weapons, the more illegal weapons... Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app There are probably millions of illegal guns out there. No amount of laws are going to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, wwest5829 said: And bazookas, tanks, etc. I do not comprehend why my fellow countrymen do not accept reasonable restrictions rather than stonewalling. But I guess stone walling (or walls with other materials are in vogue in some circles. In light of full disclosure, I should state that I am a gun owner with a CDWL. Just not a extremist. I do. They do not trust liberals to stop at reasonable restrictions, and consider any attempt at such to be the thin end of the wedge leading to confiscation of weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcharacters Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 On 2/3/2018 at 5:34 PM, how241 said: Were any of those rounds actually uses in this shooting ?? otherwise, it is kind of another story... Who on earth could possibly need armor piercing shells? Or dumb dumb shells for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, watcharacters said: Who on earth could possibly need armor piercing shells? Or dumb dumb shells for that matter? Criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEEDGER Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Those of you freaking out over Armour piercing bullets will really freak out when I say that Americans should be able to own Tanks, Mortars, Machine guns like the Browning 50. BMG, rocket launchers cruise missiles. And why, because I need to defend myself not against a burglar but the Tierney of my Government. You only need to read a few papers to see the all the Alphabet agencies are mad. They spy on us they trample the Constitution on a regular basis. The founders made the 2nd amendment not for protection against Criminal and not for hunting but for the people to protect themselves from a over reaching Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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