Boat crew arrested after slashing Ukrainian tourist

[Top Chef]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

I've lived here full time for the past 16 years, I think I've weighed in enough!

 

And your perception of what Thai people are really like and how the Thai legal system treats them versus farangs is way out of whack. Maybe those are your experiences of the Thai people you have met here on holiday or whilst in parts of Issan but they are not mine nor are they the experiences of anyone who has lived here for any period of time.

 

The Thai word farang is only derogatory to some Westerners, it's the word in their language that they use to refer to white westerners, they don't have a widely understood alternative word in common use.

Take off the blinders and speak for yourself. Also the term Farang is relatively new. Forty years ago the term Kao (white) was more apropo and far less derogatory. Stop defending and ingratiating the Thai.  They're not cute and they're not funny. 

[simoh1490]

8 minutes ago, Top Chef said:

Take off the blinders and speak for yourself. Also the term Farang is relatively new. Forty years ago the term Kao (white) was more apropo and far less derogatory. Stop defending and ingratiating the Thai.  They're not cute and they're not funny. 

You wouldn't know, you don't live and interact with regular non-tourist area Thai people on an everyday basis, may I suggest it is you who should take off your bias and try harder to understand them.

[simoh1490]

12 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

I think closer to half that figure in the last few years.

UK, 2017, almost 1 million visitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

[ostyan]

a Best Travel Club.... if it is the best try to imagine the rest

[Ron19]

Flame post removed

[Jonnapat]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

On the surface you'd side with the Ukranian, a poor innocent tourist who complained about late departure and chastised the boatman, the boatman should learn to manage criticism and to practise effective customer complaint management you'll perhaps say! My money, however, is on the boatman not being at fault, cultural gap, behaviours and attitudes, when in Rome and all that. I just don't think a tourist should come to Thailand and bark at the people as though he was in downtown Moscow or New York Time Square, this aint Kansas or Kiev.

Sorry but there is no excuse for an action like this wherever it may have taken place. The Thai male in particular has a short fuse and all tourists shouldtake particular care when being in any kind of an argument. 

[cat handler]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

...and a bloody great machete just happens to be available?

 

Makes sense, that’s how they open coconuts after all, I find a machete is easier than a pen knife.

[toofarnorth]

Glad to see the bun fights still going strong after 3 hours away.

" you said...."              " No I didn't , I implied "     " Can't you understand plain English ? "

" Thai and Ukranians are sometimes ,occasionly /never any good '

" I teach you all I know about LoS and still you know nothing "

 

Like or dislike matters not a jot to me , I am moving on.

[oldlakey]

4 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

Glad to see the bun fights still going strong after 3 hours away.

" you said...."              " No I didn't , I implied "     " Can't you understand plain English ? "

" Thai and Ukranians are sometimes ,occasionly /never any good '

" I teach you all I know about LoS and still you know nothing "

 

Like or dislike matters not a jot to me , I am moving on.

This is all good therapy for some of our members

It will pass in time

[smudger1951]

8 hours ago, Thian said:

Stabbing one of your own tourist passengers because you probably were indeed too late??? Thailand only krab! 

 

And this after a month full of very serious accidents with touristboats...unbelievable...

Yes, unbelievable, but the tourists keep coming from all over the world doing all the things we know add to the statistics.

[AloisAmrein]

Another good advertising for TAT. Quality tourists should avoid Thailand.

[farcanell]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You managed to turn the word "complained" into a verbal assault, what if that complaining was something a lot more than just verbal, or what if that "verbal assault" was threatening, intimidating and plain frightening, it clearly wasn't a level of complaint that went along the lines of "gee, this boats a little late, do you think we'd get moving please"!

And you managed to start your own assumptive thread from virtually nothing, yet now complain at others wording.... well done indeed

 

as a reminder, what is not assumptive, is that the victim claims not to have known his attacker, and to have never talked to his attacker

 

perhaps the attacker did have an argument with someone, as he claims , but made his knife assault on the wrong person.... which makes this even scarier. Someone in the rough vicinity upset a thai man by seemingly asking a reasonable question ( according to the attacker, not victim) and the Thai guy went bat shit with a blade.... on a crowded tourist boat

 

there is no defense for this guy.... dispicable and cowardly.... intimidating all on board.... but a man whose story you wish to champion.... good luck with that

 

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

And you managed to start your own assumptive thread from virtually nothing, yet now complain at others wording.... well done indeed

 

as a reminder, what is not assumptive, is that the victim claims not to have known his attacker, and to have never talked to his attacker

 

perhaps the attacker did have an argument with someone, as he claims , but made his knife assault on the wrong person.... which makes this even scarier. Someone in the rough vicinity upset a thai man by seemingly asking a reasonable question ( according to the attacker, not victim) and the Thai guy went bat shit with a blade.... on a crowded tourist boat

 

there is no defense for this guy.... dispicable and cowardly.... intimidating all on board.... but a man whose story you wish to champion.... good luck with that

 

Your phrase, "a man whose story you wish to champion" is a clear giveaway that you either haven't read the thread or understood it, let me save you some of the trouble of actually having to read it!

 

I have merely raised the notion that Thai locals do not normally run around slashing people with knives without cause and that our Eastern European friends are not best known for their perfect manners. In the absence of any proof either way and with only a sketchy outline in the OP to go by, the herd, you et al, have concluded the Thai must be bad, the perpetrator as one put it and the poor Ukrainian man must be totally innocent. Forgive me if I don't go along with that assumption and forgive the herd for doing so, if you think that's championing the Thai man I suggest you have a warped sense of what is fair and balanced and hope you and the others who share your view are never asked to sit on a jury in a court of law.

[jamesmith]

please do not defense for Thai in Phuket, three yrs ago I was in Phuket, the first night  I walked  around the night market, a group of young kids 7 to 10 yrs old running around and kicked each other but one of them kicked me and I was bleeding, I asked them not to running and do things like that in a crowded place, I can speak Thai, and asked them to look I was bleeding because of them, suddenly 3 adults came and asked me what happened, I told them and two more came and said to me, if they want to kick me they could, what did I want to do now. I was angry but I left of-course.  I went back to the hotel and clean the wound , went out again to buy a DVD, went to a shop and asked the title, she told me she did not have it, I saw it on the shelve, told her to get it for me, but she was angry and asked me to get it myself, the shelve was high and behind her counter. Next day I wanted to go to the town, all the Taxi asked for very high price and almost like force me to get on the Taxi, I did not like the people there and the place, I did not leave the hotel for 3 days and glad to leave.

[cardinalblue]

What misbehavior leads to get stabbed?

 

a emotional and juvenile response to criticism....

 

the cukture needs to learn that feedback and criticism leads to improved customer standards down the road....that's how you get better at customer service 

 

must handle it in a professional way via an evaluation process...and yes the customer is not always right but there are right and wrong ways to handle complaints...

[wavemanwww]

This room is full of want to be>>>>>>>

Sherlock Holmes

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

Your phrase, "a man whose story you wish to champion" is a clear giveaway that you either haven't read the thread or understood it, let me save you some of the trouble of actually having to read it!

 

I have merely raised the notion that Thai locals do not normally run around slashing people with knives without cause and that our Eastern European friends are not best known for their perfect manners. In the absence of any proof either way and with only a sketchy outline in the OP to go by, the herd, you et al, have concluded the Thai must be bad, the perpetrator as one put it and the poor Ukrainian man must be totally innocent. Forgive me if I don't go along with that assumption and forgive the herd for doing so, if you think that's championing the Thai man I suggest you have a warped sense of what is fair and balanced and hope you and the others who share your view are never asked to sit on a jury in a court of law.

“ Let me save you the trouble”........ and force feed you my BS.... thanks for that, but re reading is less biased.... and less fanciful.

 

its really simple, if we remove your assumptive narrative, which indicates your lack of understanding.... for example... a whole s*** ton of locals carry knives... and are prepared to use them, as is witnessed by this very story. (Lots of knives on a boat, even without a premeditated intent to attack your customers)

 

 

Never the less... 

the attacker admitted to knifing a farang

the victim claimed never to have talked to the attacker

logic (look that up) therefore dictates mistaken identity... or lying by one or both parties.

 

 

so.... in the case supporting the Thai.... a farang argued with him, and he got himself knifed... or.... in the case supporting the tourist.... he argued with a Thai and got knifed.... or... someone else (who didn’t argue with a Thai employee.. an innocent, if you will), got knifed by a Thai employee, thus becoming the victim

 

spin it till your wheels explode... but at day’s end, a thai employee in a tourist business, which daily deals with tourists from all over the world, knifed a paying tourist

 

how the hell can you possible legitimize a tourist ( even an argumentative tourist) being shanked, on his paid for tourist outing.... can’t do it.... but what we can do, with the attacker admitting an attack ( this bits my assumption... a surprise attack), is conclude that the Thai guy, is in fact, a bad guy... bad guys lie

 

you cannot logically conclude that the tourist is anything other than what he claims to be. An innocent victim of a knife wielding Thai, who was there on the boat to help the paying users... vs cause them any kind of harm (and this includes psych harm to witnesses as well!!! Let’s not exclude that )

 

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by farcanell

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

“ Let me save you the trouble”........ and force feed you my BS.... thanks for that, but re reading is less biased.... and less fanciful.

 

its really simple, if we remove your assumptive narrative, which indicates your lack of understanding.... for example... a whole s*** ton of locals carry knives... and are prepared to use them, as is witnessed by this very story. (Lots of knives on a boat, even without a premeditated intent to attack your customers)

 

 

Never the less... 

the attacker admitted to knifing a farang

the victim claimed never to have talked to the attacker

logic (look that up) therefore dictates mistaken identity... or lying by one or both parties.

so.... in the case supporting the Thai.... a farang argued with him, and he got himself knifed... or.... in the case supporting the tourist.... he argued with a Thai and got knifed.... or... someone (who didn’t argue with a Thai employee) altogether different to the victim got knifed by a Thai employee.

 

spin it till your wheels explode... but at day’s end, a thai employee in a tourist business, which daily deals with tourists from all over the world, knifed a paying tourist

 

how the hell can you possible legitimize a tourist ( even an argumentative tourist) being shanked, on his paid for tourist outing.... can’t do it.... but what we can do, with the attacker admitting an attack ( this bits my assumption... a surprise attack), is conclude that the Thai guy, is in fact, a bad guy... bad guys lie

 

you cannot logically conclude that the tourist is anything other than what he claims to be. An innocent victim of a knife wielding Thai, who was there on the boat to help the paying users... vs cause them any kind of harm (and this includes psych harm to witnesses as well!!! Let’s not exclude that )

 

 

5

A few things:

 

"if we remove your assumptive narrative, which indicates your lack of understanding".

Perhaps you can quote that assump[tive narrative for us?

 

Re: knives and guilty of the attack - there's no debate, I never claimed otherwise, he had a knife and he attacked the farang, the article in the OP tells us that. BUT you conveniently skirt around the solitary point that I have made in this thread and that is the potential for the farang to be at least partially responsible for provoking the Thai mans response, what we can't see is whether that provocation was excessive verbal abuse or something more physical. You and your logic, however, have decided that's not possible and that the Thai man is solely responsible for the entire start to finish and I don't buy that. If we buy your story we have to believe the Ukranian man was sitting in the boat nice and peacefully and made some remark about the boat being late, at which the Thai man slashed him with a knife, I mean really!

 

 

 

 

 

[tonray]

10 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Are you sure this is not a case of a tourist not taking responsibility for their own (mis)behaviour?

Uh oh..I see a GoFundMe page on the way

[farcanell]

11 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

My money, however, is on the boatman not being at fault, cultural gap, behaviours and attitudes, when in Rome and all that. I just don't think a tourist should come to Thailand and bark at the people as though he was in downtown Moscow or New York Time Square, this aint Kansas or Kiev.

There is your assumptive narrative.

 

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

If we buy your story we have to believe the Ukranian man was sitting in the boat nice and peacefully and made some remark about the boat being late, at which the Thai man slashed him with a knife, I mean really!

Now let’s look at this.... no

 

if we believe the victims story... it’s his, not mine. The victim claims to have not previously spoken to his attacker, whereas the attacker, after attacking the victim, came up with his story about an argument that needed to be sorted out with a knife attack, in front of a boat full of innocent people.

 

in no world is it OK to stick a knife into an unarmed anyone... esp not a paying client... esp not on the tourist boat. To have done this anyway (knifed a man) demonstrates that the Thai guy just ain’t all there... regardless about any alleged argument about boat departure time.... because that’s the alleged bit (the argument!)

 

 

[simoh1490]

24 minutes ago, farcanell said:

There is your assumptive narrative.

 

Now let’s look at this.... no

 

if we believe the victims story... it’s his, not mine. The victim claims to have not previously spoken to his attacker, whereas the attacker, after attacking the victim, came up with his story about an argument that needed to be sorted out with a knife attack, in front of a boat full of innocent people.

 

in no world is it OK to stick a knife into an unarmed anyone... esp not a paying client... esp not on the tourist boat. To have done this anyway (knifed a man) demonstrates that the Thai guy just ain’t all there... regardless about any alleged argument about boat departure time.... because that’s the alleged bit (the argument!)

 

 

2

"in no world is it OK to stick a knife into an unarmed anyone", except in self defense perhaps!

 

And since we only have the "victim"s version of events with nothing from the other team, yet, perhaps we should wait and see how this unfolds, methinks this story isn't over yet.

[Tofer]

 

To Simoh 1490

Assault with a deadly weapon is, IMHO, attempted murder and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

Or do you believe this is acceptable and should be expected when you travel overseas?

Edited February 5, 2018 by Tofer

[Dorion]

12 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

On the surface you'd side with the Ukranian, a poor innocent tourist who complained about late departure and chastised the boatman, the boatman should learn to manage criticism and to practise effective customer complaint management you'll perhaps say! My money, however, is on the boatman not being at fault, cultural gap, behaviours and attitudes, when in Rome and all that. I just don't think a tourist should come to Thailand and bark at the people as though he was in downtown Moscow or New York Time Square, this aint Kansas or Kiev.

While I somewhat agree, it's a little extreme to pull a knife on a passenger unless physically threatened.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Dorion
extraneous word

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

"How about a disclaimer somewhere on your Arrival/Departure TM that acknowledges your understanding that you forfeit any responsibility to Thailand and its people for your life, injury or safety!".

 

When you get a passport from your government it is presumed that you signed that disclaimer, people who don't understand that shouldn't be allowed to travel. A significant part of the bigger problem is that people come here (and elsewhere) expecting that the same set of rules should apply as back at home.

What a load of crap!!

 

Show me a passport application that indicates such?

 

Common sense should prevail of course, but Thailand promotes itself in the international market place and should therefore provide adequate security to foreign visitors. However, we experienced travellers know different... And maybe the travelers / tourists should consult the foreign office for advice, although I doubt they will be warned against travelling here on the grounds that Thai's can be totally irrational, immature and excessively aggressive.

 

I never forget being told that farang are uncivilised because we are confrontational, ha ha......

Edited February 5, 2018 by Tofer

[Tofer]

12 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

The article in the OP is great, it's got all the ingredients to ensure clicks get maximised, the islands in Thailand and a farang getting slashed by a knife-wielding manic local, outstanding, the Ukrainian equivalent of the Sun and The Express will be on this story almost certainly.

 

But set aside the tabloid journalism for a moment and consider the evidence, for those of you who have any substantial experience of Thailand I would ask, how many Thai's have you ever come across here who under any circumstances that you've ever been involved in here, has come at you with weapon for no apparent cause! For my part, I've lived here full time for over 16 years and I've never once met such a person nor have I ever heard of one. As a second challenge, I would ask you to think about the politest nationalities on earth and grade them down to the rudest, ask yourself where Eastern Europeans fall on your list. Again, for my part, my first-hand experience of being around Russian tourists in Thailand has not been the most pleasant, I find them often to be coarse and rude but maybe I've just been unlucky and your experiences may be different.

 

So when I read the story in the OP I think to myself, hmmm, there's a bunch of important detail missing to complete this picture but I'm certain which side the Sun and Express readers will come down on because it's just another opportunity bash Thailand. Sure what the local did was OTT and there's no question about that, but is it understandable to a degree, indeed it is, after all, it's not as though we're in a Western country where all tourist facing customer service people are trained and monitored, we're in the Third World for gods sake, at least that's what many posters like to call it here and you can't have it both ways!.

"understandable to a degree, indeed it is". 

 

What at planet are you living on?

 

We're taking about tourists here, not experienced / resident expats.

 

As has been rightly pointed out, Thailand promotes itself in the international tourists market as a 'land of smiles'. 

 

If the Thai tourist industry was an accountable business it would be bankrupt by now.

[sandrabbit]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

A few things:

 

"if we remove your assumptive narrative, which indicates your lack of understanding".

Perhaps you can quote that assump[tive narrative for us?

 

Re: knives and guilty of the attack - there's no debate, I never claimed otherwise, he had a knife and he attacked the farang, the article in the OP tells us that. BUT you conveniently skirt around the solitary point that I have made in this thread and that is the potential for the farang to be at least partially responsible for provoking the Thai mans response, what we can't see is whether that provocation was excessive verbal abuse or something more physical. You and your logic, however, have decided that's not possible and that the Thai man is solely responsible for the entire start to finish and I don't buy that. If we buy your story we have to believe the Ukranian man was sitting in the boat nice and peacefully and made some remark about the boat being late, at which the Thai man slashed him with a knife, I mean really!

 

 

 

 

 

when in a hole, stop digging ......

[SunsetT]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

Sometimes all you can do is voice your displeasure. I have done the same when the ferry i reserved turned out to be a speed boat even after i confirmed a few times that it was a ferry. I can handle a speed boat trip easy but with bad weather my mom who was traveling too hurts a lot because of the impacts of the waves. 

 

So after having booked a trip by ferry and we got put into a speedboat I did make some comments about cheating and bad customer service. I am not one to complain easy but I really went out of my way to book a ferry ticket and got a speedboat. Yea i voiced displeasure.. after reading this i realize it might not have been the best thing.. but still.. I don't always accept everything here.

They probably thought they were giving you an upgrade.

[chrissables]

14 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

On the surface you'd side with the Ukranian, a poor innocent tourist who complained about late departure and chastised the boatman, the boatman should learn to manage criticism and to practise effective customer complaint management you'll perhaps say! My money, however, is on the boatman not being at fault, cultural gap, behaviours and attitudes, when in Rome and all that. I just don't think a tourist should come to Thailand and bark at the people as though he was in downtown Moscow or New York Time Square, this aint Kansas or Kiev.

Great, piss me off and i will slash you, i like your way of thinking.

[AloisAmrein]

The best is to avoid Thailand at all. No such thing in Vietnam or Indonesia.

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

What a load of crap!!

 

Show me a passport application that indicates such?

 

Common sense should prevail of course, but Thailand promotes itself in the international market place and should therefore provide adequate security to foreign visitors. However, we experienced travellers know different... And maybe the travelers / tourists should consult the foreign office for advice, although I doubt they will be warned against travelling here on the grounds that Thai's can be totally irrational, immature and excessively aggressive.

 

I never forget being told that farang are uncivilised because we are confrontational, ha ha......

Which part of the word "presumed" do you not understand!