Help ! Advice needed following recent unexpected problem at Don Muang Immigration

[pks555]

I'm a 62 year old British man owning a condo in Pattaya . For several years I have travelled to Thailand early/mid November returning to UK mid /late March . I have done this by purchasing a 60 day Single Entry Tourist Visa , extending it by 30 days at Immigration , and then either doing a land border  visa run for a further 30 days followed by a 30 day extension or travelling to another country & returning to get 30 days plus the extension . This has worked perfectly , not one comment or question ever from an Immigration Officer . Most years I have been in Thailand for around 130 days  although it was 170 days in 2017 as I came additionally in June for a one month visit.

But this year I encountered big problems at Don Muang . My first 90 days was up so I went to Penang for a few days flying back this week to Don Muang . The Immigration Supervisor and her boss told me I was living in Thailand and abusing the law by inappropriately using TV's and  border trips.  The supervisor printed out my visa and entry history and they calculated that since Nov 2016  I had been in Thailand for 264 days which exceeded the 180 day rule .  I stated that this was obviously covering a period of more than one  calendar year and that I had never exceeded 180 days in a calender year .   I live in UK for the greater part of the year.

I showed a flight ticket out within the 30 day period too as  I am due to a fly to Vietnam on 6 March returning on March 13 before then returning to UK on April 3. I had plenty of funds on me but they didnt ask about that. I was then told they would refuse me entry as they believed I was living in Thailand which I contested.  I remained calm and polite but they seemed to really have it in for me and I couldnt understand why as I'd never overstayed or done anything wrong here . I said that I was doing the same as for the previous six years and that numerous Immigration Officers had not queried this during that time .

I was abruptly told that I was not stupid and I should know the law and regulations before coming here and I was also told I should not be using TV's as I stay in a condo which I own . 

The ordeal went on for well over an hour and it wasnt pleasant  . They asked to see my April 3 flight ticket to UK and then , after much deliberation , let me in . I seem to have a normal 30 day entry stamp .

I really hadnt been expecting this and am still feeling shocked at the experience .

I'm also thinking what to do in future . Next winter I will return with a Single Entry Tourist Visa and use a professional agent here  to get a Retirement Visa . This seems the best course of action . BUT I'm worried about how I can stay this year here until April 3 . If I travel to Vietnam as planned returning 13 March I worry I could have the same experience at Don Muang or even be refused entry completely . I need advice please from those with expertise who post here  .

Should I go ahead with the Vietnam trip , or should I  abandon that plan and  apply for a 30 extension at Immigration instead  ( would it be granted ? ) , or go on a land border visa run , or to a visa trip to Laos for a new tourist visa ??  I suppose I could return to UK when my current 30 days expjres but I dont want to have to do that .

I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts please .

Apologies for this posting being a bit lengthy but I felt the detail was necessary .

Paul

 

[Peterw42]

Why not get a long stay Visa/extension of stay, renew it each year when you visit. It would be cheaper easier, legal etc.

 

You are obviously on the radar now for coming and going to much on tourist visa's and visa exempt entries, more reason to get a long stay visa/extension.

[DeeThai]

Apply for retirement visa more safe 

[phuketrichard]

short term for this ear, fly to anywhere nearby an apply for a Tourist visa, come back by land.

NEXT time:
ur going to need be here for at LEAST 3 months.

apply for a non immigrant O visa (reason ..over 50) valid for 90 days, open a bank account ( or u might have one already) put 800,000 in it , after 2 months apply for a 1 year Retirement extension.   quite easy, you dont need an agent.

Makes sure before u leave u apply for and have a re-entry permit.  wont ever have any more problems at immigration and u will be 100% legal.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

apply for a non immigrant O visa (reason ..over 50) valid for 90 days, open a bank account ( or u might have one already) put 800,000 in it , after 2 months apply for a 1 year Retirement extension.  

The UK will not issue a 90 day Non Imm O unless married to a Thai, or 65 and receiving a state pension.

The OP is 62 and single.

 

His only option to stay long term would be the O-A Visa obtained for 50+.

When he starts receiving his state pension (66) he could get a multi entry Non Imm O Visa.

 

His other option is to get a Tourist Visa from the UK, then do the conversion process to Non O and an extension based on retirement, at local Immigration, but he would need to meet the financial requirements.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Tanoshi

[BritTim]

You encountered one of those immigration officials (that seem more numerous at Don Muang than elsewhere) who feel the current official rules on tourist entries are too liberal. When entering visa exempt, they are given a lot of latitude in how they treat you due to new rules published in a Ministerial Order in 2014. When entering by air (especially at Don Muang) always have a visa or re-entry permit. They can then only deny you based on Section 12 of the Immigration Act. If they still refer you to a senior official, ensure you promptly (absent mindedly) show you have plenty of cash as one trick they can use is to claim you did not have 20,000 baht equivalent on you. Not asking for it allows them to say they were unaware you had the cash. Preemptively showing it sidesteps that trick.

 

Your experience is not especially common, but a definite risk for those entering visa exempt, and a tiny risk even when entering with a tourist visa. Bad luck!

[pks555]

Thank you for the prompt replies and advice . Yes , I realise I had bad luck and also that I'm now on the radar .  In the longer term I know what to do later this year . I know how to arrive on a Tourist Visa , convert to a longer visa following by obtaining a Retirement Visa . I meet the criteria . I could also get a multi entry Tourist Visa from the Hull consulate as I meet  the criteria -I dont get a state pension for another four years but I do receive an employment pension which the consulate  have said they will accept .

The advice I need is about my SHORT TERM situation and how to stay until April 3 . Thats why I asked for views about the wisdom of taking the one week trip to Vietnam - would it be risky on return ?

Alternatively , if I applied  at Jomtien Immigration for a 30 day extension from 6 March  would they be likely to grant this as per previous years ?  From a practical perspective thats an easy option but would it work and what are there any implications if it were rejected.

And the other options are a land border visa run for another 30 days ( risky ? ) or a trip to Laos for a new Tourist Visa and return by land at Nong Khai.

I would appreciate advice about my short term situation as thats whats worrying me now

 

Thanks

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, pks555 said:

Thank you for the prompt replies and advice . Yes , I realise I had bad luck and also that I'm now on the radar .  In the longer term I know what to do later this year . I know how to arrive on a Tourist Visa , convert to a longer visa following by obtaining a Retirement Visa . I meet the criteria . I could also get a multi entry Tourist Visa from the Hull consulate as I meet  the criteria -I dont get a state pension for another four years but I do receive an employment pension which the consulate  have said they will accept .

The advice I need is about my SHORT TERM situation and how to stay until April 3 . Thats why I asked for views about the wisdom of taking the one week trip to Vietnam - would it be risky on return ?

Alternatively , if I applied  at Jomtien Immigration for a 30 day extension from 6 March  would they be likely to grant this as per previous years ?  From a practical perspective thats an easy option but would it work and what are there any implications if it were rejected.

And the other options are a land border visa run for another 30 days ( risky ? ) or a trip to Laos for a new Tourist Visa and return by land at Nong Khai.

I would appreciate advice about my short term situation as thats whats worrying me now

 

Thanks

If you go and see an Agent today, they can probably have you on a retirement extension before you leave, and allowing you to stay until april. 

[Scott3000]

From my experience, I would say that getting an extension to your current border stamp should be no problem. Though I've never been to Pattaya or its immigration office, I have noticed that Chiang Mai Immigration has become less militant since late 2016, just as the Bangkok airports have become more restrictive. The feeling at Chiang Mai Immigration is much less anxiety-riddled than it was in 2015-16. Even back then, I could sense the pressure was coming from above. I see the same group of IO's working here, but they seem to be simply handling their administrative duties professionally and courteously, and I've noticed a huge drop in scenes and outbursts at Immigration.

 

The staff at your provincial Immigration office operates under a different M.O. than the staff at DMK and BKK airports. 

 

With that in mind, if I were in your shoes, I'd opt for staying in Thailand rather than leaving and returning. I would gladly pay the visa agents on the 2nd floor of Promenada their 500 THB fee to run my passport thru Immigration 2 floors below as soon as possible, and scrap the Vietnam trip for this year, then do as you say for next season, when you could go to Vietnam without the overhanging stress of wondering whether you'd be admitted back into Thailand or not.

 

Hope this helps & good luck :-)

 

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you go and see an Agent today, they can probably have you on a retirement extension before you leave, and allowing you to stay until april. 

The OP wouldn't be here to see a conversion through, it takes several weeks.

[Danielsiam]

Good things, they're allowed you finally, it's like a big warning ~ so now you've time to prepare to make a good visa. Some was denied in your situation.

 

By the way, I am using almost Non-O visa here as Vientiane provide them. I hope, when I came from EU on visa-exempt, they will don't make a story, because I am previously stay long-time in Non-O visa & then suddenly arrive with visa-exempt !?

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, pks555 said:

Alternatively , if I applied  at Jomtien Immigration for a 30 day extension from 6 March  would they be likely to grant this as per previous years ?  

I don't see a problem with that.

You weren't given an 'warning' stamps in your passport?

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

The OP wouldn't be here to see a conversion through, it takes several weeks.

Agents can do all sorts of clever solutions, conversion to retire extension etc in a couple of days.

[Scott3000]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The advice I need is about my SHORT TERM situation and how to stay until April 3

I was responding to the above as you were entering it! See my reply for what I would do and why, but the short answer is, in your place I would get an extension immediately, and postpone the Vietnam trip until next season. Leaving the country right now under your circumstances and given the date of your return to the UK would add a lot of risk, uncertainty, and stress to your current stay in SE Asia -- Not worth it to me.

[Ditto]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The OP wouldn't be here to see a conversion through, it takes several weeks.

Not with an agent it doesn't several days if that

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Agents can do all sorts of clever solutions, conversion to retire extension etc in a couple of days.

So your recommending a corrupt and illegal activity?

 

So if the OP took that route now, his Non Imm O would take him to May, when his extension would be dated from.

The OP arrives November, departs March each year.

He wouldn't be in Thailand to renew it each year.

[Scott3000]

... and to add to the above, if you get an extension to your current entry, no need to go thru the costly retirement visa conversion with an agent so late in your trip.

[Rama]

What could go wrong??? Why wait?? you've been undoubtedly earmarked in the system now so get a retirement visa now! Why wait??? Fix your visa status on this trip asap.

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Ditto said:

Not with an agent it doesn't several days if that

Had a friend go down that route, cost him 40,000 baht, then his local Immigration office refused to do his 90 day reports.

Told him to go back to Bangkok, the agent, or whoever issued the extension.

 

He ended up having to do border runs every 90 days for a year.

[darrendsd]

25 minutes ago, pks555 said:

Thank you for the prompt replies and advice . Yes , I realise I had bad luck and also that I'm now on the radar .  In the longer term I know what to do later this year . I know how to arrive on a Tourist Visa , convert to a longer visa following by obtaining a Retirement Visa . I meet the criteria . I could also get a multi entry Tourist Visa from the Hull consulate as I meet  the criteria -I dont get a state pension for another four years but I do receive an employment pension which the consulate  have said they will accept .

The advice I need is about my SHORT TERM situation and how to stay until April 3 . Thats why I asked for views about the wisdom of taking the one week trip to Vietnam - would it be risky on return ?

Alternatively , if I applied  at Jomtien Immigration for a 30 day extension from 6 March  would they be likely to grant this as per previous years ?  From a practical perspective thats an easy option but would it work and what are there any implications if it were rejected.

And the other options are a land border visa run for another 30 days ( risky ? ) or a trip to Laos for a new Tourist Visa and return by land at Nong Khai.

I would appreciate advice about my short term situation as thats whats worrying me now

 

Thanks

Despite what you have just gone through at the Airport you will have no problem whatsoever in getting a 30 day extension at Jomtien Immigration, 

[rockingrobin]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Had a friend go down that route, cost him 40,000 baht, then his local Immigration office refused to do his 90 day reports.

Told him to go back to Bangkok, the agent, or whoever issued the extension.

 

He ended up having to do border runs every 90 days for a year.

What your friend should have done , is notify a change of residence in accordance to 37 (2), and then completed a 90 day report

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, pks555 said:

Alternatively , if I applied  at Jomtien Immigration for a 30 day extension from 6 March  would they be likely to grant this as per previous years ?  From a practical perspective thats an easy option but would it work and what are there any implications if it were rejected.

No problem to get the 30 day extension at immigration.

You could also make your trip to Vietnam and apply for a single entry tourist visa while there. The fee will be $40 US.

[RichardColeman]

21 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Agents can do all sorts of clever solutions, conversion to retire extension etc in a couple of days

Mine is quoting 24 hours currently to extend ! 

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

So your recommending a corrupt and illegal activity?

 

So if the OP took that route now, his Non Imm O would take him to May, when his extension would be dated from.

The OP arrives November, departs March each year.

He wouldn't be in Thailand to renew it each year.

Not so much illegal unless you take up the option for them to supply the funds in the bank etc. ( OP mentions using an agent in the future) The same outcome, just faster, they can do conversion to O and 1 year extension in a couple of days. If OP has the funds in the bank etc, an agent can get you on a retire extension (expires next Feb) in a couple of days.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Peterw42

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

What your friend should have done , is notify a change of residence in accordance to 37 (2), and then completed a 90 day report

He already filed a TM28 and TM30, no problems.

 

What they didn't like was the fact his Extension was dated one day after the Non Imm was issued.

That was a dead give away it was obtained through corrupt methods.

 

The correct procedure and you don't need to use corrupt agents,

You must have at least 15 days permission to stay from your Visa exempt or TV. Apply for a change of Visa status, or a Visa. (Non Imm O)

14 days later return to obtain the Non Imm O. (90 days)

Within the last 30 days of that 90 days apply for the extension.

 

For the conversion to a Non Imm O funds must be shown to have come from abroad.

By the time the extension comes around, funds have been seasoned in a Thai bank for the required 2 months.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not so much illegal unless you take up the option for them to supply the funds in the bank etc. The same outcome, just faster, they can do conversion to O and 1 year extension in a couple of days. If OP has the funds in the bank etc, an agent can get you on a retire extension in a couple of days.

Funds must be seasoned in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the first extension application.

 

Quote

On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date:

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557

 

Please explain how an agent can obtain, or an Immigration office can issue an extension within a couple of days, without underhand payments (corruption) or adhering to the orders they themselves stipulate.

[OJAS]

53 minutes ago, pks555 said:

...or a trip to Laos for a new Tourist Visa and return by land at Nong Khai.

If you're planning to go to Laos then, instead of another tourist visa, why don't you obtain a non-O visa there like this poster appears to have done:-

 

42 minutes ago, Danielsiam said:

By the way, I am using almost Non-O visa here as Vientiane provide them.

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by OJAS

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not so much illegal unless you take up the option for them to supply the funds in the bank etc. The same outcome, just faster, they can do conversion to O and 1 year extension in a couple of days. If OP has the funds in the bank etc, an agent can get you on a retire extension in a couple of days.

The extension would still be renewable in May and the OP would be in the UK.

Read the OP's opening thread and give it some thought.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

If you're planning to go to Laos then, instead of another tourist visa, why don't you obtain a non-O visa there like this poster has done:-

 

 

He gets a Non O based on a Thai child.

[OJAS]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

He gets a Non O based on a Thai child.

But the OP could obtain a non-O in Vientiane based on being aged over 50. This strikes me as his best course of action.