Expat buying property in the EU.

[overherebc]

Came up a couple of nights ago.

UK expat with Thai wife decides to buy a place in France or Italy to spend his last few years.

Is his Thai wife entitled to come and live with him? Some in the company said yes, some said no, only visas allowed for 6 months per year.

Some said when the expat pops off she can't own the place, some said of course she can.

Any knowledge out there on this?

[Donutz]

Currently the Thai spouse would have the right to live with the EU/EEA national anywhere in the EU/EEA (except the home country of the European), IF they are not an unreasonable burden to the state or national security risk. These rights are derived from EU directive 2004/38 on freedom of movement.

 

Now with Brexit this may change. But for now, a Briton and a Thai that are married can get a free visa to say Italy (showing their ID/passports, proof of a legal marriage and the European making clear that the Thai travels with or joins the European). This could be for holiday or immigration purposes. To live there the Briton would need some form of income (as not to be an unreasonable burden to the state) and not plot to overthrow the government  (national security risk)  and they should be fine. 

 

Once a non European lives in Europe they generally get more rights the longer they live there.  After X years they may get an indefinite/permanent residence permit, after Y years they may apply for citizenship etc. There usually are rules too for if the European dies. 

 

Property rights very country specific. No clue about that. But if the Thai person has an income they could always just rent a place even if they couldn't own property. 

[tebee]

You have to get a short term  visa to get to the country, once there apply apply within 3 months for a European residence card. Note you must apply for a visa as a family member of an EEA citizen not a normal visitors visa. The right  this is automatic and it's free, though you may have to pay 3rd party processing fees.

 

You have a stronger right if you intend to work in the country than if you are retired, but this is not normally a problem. 

 

In France they will normally give your spouse a one year card first and then a 5 year card on renewal. For the first 5 years your spouses right to live there is dependent on you, but after that they can apply for permanent residence and continue to live there even if you divorce. 

 

In France, at least, there is no problem about owning property. My Thai stepson now owns 3 houses there.   

[Moti24]

I took my wife to live in Spain in 2010.  She even got a 5 year residencia when she was there.  But, I already owned the property.  If you are serious, I would think that you will need an address, owned or perhaps rented, before you apply for your wife's visa.  Best check with the appropriate embassy before you make any plans.

[watcharacters]

 

 

The appropriate government regulators are likely your best point of support.

 

II hate to suggest a lawyer but I'd surely not believe ANYONE on this forum who claims to have THE answer.  

 

A link from a member may be worthwhile but most members do not bother to even give links.

 

Pity..  

[overherebc]

99% of things can be done without a lawyer.

[tebee]

If the OP decides to move to France I can give him chapter and verse and all the links he needs as I did all this 4 years ago ( although currently  we are all back in Thailand for a while, considering options here in case Brexit makes things go pair shaped) 

 

There is also the slight problem that dealing with residence matters is one of things devolved out to the French departments,so different places may have slightly different procedures and require different paperwork, but EU law is superior here and they need to obey that, though sometimes it is necessary to point out to them that they are not!

 

Some links

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/index_en.htm

http://www.cotes-darmor.gouv.fr/Demarches-administratives/Etrangers-en-France#F13512

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/ecj-c-15703/

 

[Donutz]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

You have to get a short term  visa to get to the country, once there apply apply within 3 months for a European residence card. Note you must apply for a visa as a family member of an EEA citizen not a normal visitors visa. The right  this is automatic and it's free, though you may have to pay 3rd party processing fees.

.   

 

Third parties are Always optional voor Schengen member states. You have no obligation to use a service provider such as VFS Global, TLS Contact or BLS etc.  See Schengen sticky for details or visit the EU Home Affairs webpage and their handbooks on visa policy. That said, some embassies really try to 'persuade' or push you to their service provider but you don't have to deal with them and thus don't have to pay a service fee unless you chose to use the external optional services.

 

1 hour ago, Moti24 said:

I took my wife to live in Spain in 2010.  She even got a 5 year residencia when she was there.  But, I already owned the property.  If you are serious, I would think that you will need an address, owned or perhaps rented, before you apply for your wife's visa.  Best check with the appropriate embassy before you make any plans.

You don't need an adress, though if you alsready have  I'd include it. Marriage documents (if written in a language such as Thai: officially translated and also legalized by any EU/EEA embassy. ), the passports (copies) of the European and the alien plus something that makes clear that the couple will head to the EU (written and signed letter from the EU national, but throw in a, optional flight reservation if you wish) is enough to get a  free short stay visa under Directive 2004/38.  If you do wihs to migrate I'd also get other papers in order such as birth crtificates (and have those translated etc.) because you may need them once you formally indicate that you wish to live there. But for the visa itself you won't need many papers. Some embassies do act ro are dumb and ask for more things such as travel Insurance or what not while they shouldn't ask these things for special applications under Freedom of Movement.

 

 

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

The appropriate government regulators are likely your best point of support.

 

II hate to suggest a lawyer but I'd surely not believe ANYONE on this forum who claims to have THE answer.  

 

A link from a member may be worthwhile but most members do not bother to even give links.

 

Pity..  

Links can be very useful if they point to official and current information. I'd rather trust a link to  the EU or EU member state than a long story without any sources to duoble check if the information is 1) correct 2) still correct at this moment and not some outdated information wish is no longer correct.

 

1 hour ago, tebee said:

If the OP decides to move to France I can give him chapter and verse and all the links he needs as I did all this 4 years ago ( although currently  we are all back in Thailand for a while, considering options here in case Brexit makes things go pair shaped) 

 

There is also the slight problem that dealing with residence matters is one of things devolved out to the French departments,so different places may have slightly different procedures and require different paperwork, but EU law is superior here and they need to obey that, though sometimes it is necessary to point out to them that they are not!

 

Some links

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/index_en.htm

http://www.cotes-darmor.gouv.fr/Demarches-administratives/Etrangers-en-France#F13512

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/ecj-c-15703/

 

I agree. And I was about to throw in those same links (they are also included in the Schengen sticky but hey)

 

Other useful links are:

 

EU Home Affairs page on Visa policies with 2 handbooks, the large one of 100+ pages has a chapter on EU/EEA family member applications (section 3):

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy_en

 

The short version for those who don't want to read a lot of background info:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

 

The EU directive (EU law) that this al derives from:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32004L0038

[Hupaponics]

Should be very easy as so many complains about visas to Thailand.

 

But on the serious side, the spouse visa (not the 3-6 months tourist visa) today for Sweden is a waiting time for around 1,5 year b4 granted. But it differs from country to country. 

The paper work for Schengen visa is easy, no lawyers needed. It's just the time to wait that sucks. Up to the individual countries' immigration.

 

[EDIT]

Just saw, "UK expat". 

No curent residency in EU?

All I can do now is wish you good luck.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Hupaponics

[tebee]

This is  the advantage of using the EEA route rather than the spouse visa. No waiting times, go there on any visa and they are obliged by EU regulations to give you a visa in a shortish timeframe while you wait in-country. 

[Moti24]

13 hours ago, Donutz said:

You don't need an adress, though if you alsready have  I'd include it. Marriage documents (if written in a language such as Thai: officially translated and also legalized by any EU/EEA embassy. ), the passports (copies) of the European and the alien plus something that makes clear that the couple will head to the EU (written and signed letter from the EU national, but throw in a, optional flight reservation if you wish) is enough to get a  free short stay visa under Directive 2004/38.  If you do wihs to migrate I'd also get other papers in order such as birth crtificates (and have those translated etc.) because you may need them once you formally indicate that you wish to live there. But for the visa itself you won't need many papers. Some embassies do act ro are dumb and ask for more things such as travel Insurance or what not while they shouldn't ask these things for special applications under Freedom of Movement.

You need to tell the OP, not me!  I've already been, come back, got the T-shirt and seen the video.  That's why I advised the OP to contact the relevant embassy before making any plans.

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

You need to tell the OP, not me!  I've already been, come back, got the T-shirt and seen the video.  That's why I advised the OP to contact the relevant embassy before making any plans.

The problem is not all embassy officials understand the EEA route, indeed I think some rather resent people using it to bypass their countries immigration system. 

We made an application using it, my wife who was on her own at the time, was told we couldn't and they changed her application to a normal visa, which was of course rejected as we had supplied the paperwork for the EEA one. Got charged around 150 euros for it.

Needed to use the EU ombudsman service Solv-it - http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/ - to mediate for me. Never got the 150 euros back though.