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Is DHL ripping me off


realenglish1

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Any package with a value over $40 (cost of goods, shipping and insurance) is submitted to customs by the courier and import duty is calculated, then tax is added



That should not be the case with UPS I-Parcel service, where all handling and customs import charges are prepaid. But as in my case, UPS Thailand still want to apply illegal extra taxes and charges, and then 'get the hump' when I don't play ball with them.
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23 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

i think its now time to realize that DHL Thailand  is managed by Thais   who in turn are in bed  with the  relevant  authorities    

Thais don't have a monopoly on rip off charges. In Canada, the courier companies charge

about a 1,300 baht brokerage fee. If possible try to have things sent regular mail. Very

little chance of customs and no ripoff brokerage fees. My brother (pilot) just stops

at the courier cargo depot at the airport (Montreal) and fills in the forms himself. Takes

a few minutes, no brokerage fee. But they don't let you know your options unless you ask.

A very nice earner for them.

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15 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

That's not the fault of customs, but of the seller. They should invoice a 0% vat export invoice, instead of a price that includes unspecified vat and then deducting it. Any company used to exporting goods knows this. The problem nowadays is that any kid can start an (eBay) store online and sell worldwide, without knowing anything about exporting and importing. 

I take your point but as neither of us saw the invoice, we don't know if an unspecified amount of VAT was deducted or if it was clearly specified. There's certainly no justification for adding it back in any case.

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1 hour ago, simon43 said:

I recently purchased a simple wire antenna from a US company for my radio amateur hobby. It cost $229. Having had previous experience with the 'kidnap and hold for financial ransom' tactics of DHL, UPS etc in Thailand, I wanted it to be shipped via USPS.

But the antenna support rods were too long to ship via USPS. The shipper offered to ship via UPS (no way!) or UPS I-Parcel, a new service where all handling and customs import charges are prepaid, thus eliminating any ransom tactics on the Thai side. (Or so I thought...)

So I paid an extra $143 to cover all shipping, handling and customs import charges.

The antenna package arrives in Bangkok and is promptly kidnapped by UPS Thailand, who send me the usual email demanding shipping, handling and custom fees.

I politely reply to them, pointing out that I'm using their I-Parcel service, so all fees are already paid 100%, so please deliver my package pronto.

UPS Thailand goes quiet for 2 days and then sends me an email to say that this antenna needs an import licence! (This is rubbish, because it is a personal import and no import licence is needed, as confirmed by RAST - Radio Amateur Society of Thailand - of which I am a lifelong member).

UPS Thailand refuse to deliver the package...

So I tell them to send it back to the shipper in the US and I'll get my full refund from them.

Get this!! UPS Thailand refuse to send the package back to the USA with the flawed argument "Since it needs an import licence to enter Thailand, it must therefore need an EXPORT licence to be returned to the USA shipper...." (That's Thai logic for you).

So here I am, with an expensive antenna sitting in UPS Thailand, who refuse to deliver it, refuse to return it to the shipper and - oh they also refuse to refund my money because it is not lost or damaged....

Any suggestions?

Yeah, go down there with a pump action shotgun...

 

1 hour ago, Gulfsailor said:

Its a mystery to me why so many people get upset with DHL and other couriers when it comes to assessing customs duties. It's standard practice around the world that shipments over a certain threshold will have duties (and VAT / sales tax) on them. These duties are based on the price of goods (before any discounts!) including shipping and insurance. If no shipping charge is specified customs assesses this themselves (normally 10-20% depending on mode of shipping). All duty rates and excise/luxury tax rates are published online. 

So as a buyer from goods abroad make sure that the seller;

- Adds an invoice which is plausible. Weird low values or 'gift descriptions' won't be accepted, and results in customs assessing fair market price themselves. 

- Writes the HS code and detailed description of the shipped goods on the invoice. 

- Only writes the final amount after applied discounts on the invoice. There shouldn't be any mention of discount at all on the invoice. 

- Notes the cost of shipping and insurance on the invoice. If the seller offers free shipping, then he should write down a plausible amount for the shipping anyway and deduct it from the goods price (without mentioning that, see point above)

- write the Incoterms on the invoice under which the goods are sold. 

 

The seller will also need all this info on the invoice to prepare his own export statements ( no biggie in US, but is a biggie in Europe, as without adequate export formalities the seller is still liable for VAT)

 

With all the above in place you will not have any surprise when importing goods into Thailand or any other country regardless of the Mail or courier service you use. 

 

(Disclaimer, as long as you don't try to import stuff that require a permit, like medicine, certain radio broadcast items, alcohol or tobacco)

 

They make it up as they go along.

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3 hours ago, sjbrownderby said:

The threshold for charging duty and taxes is 1000 THB and this number will include the cost of shipping. Generally the cost of shipping by regular mail is much cheaper. My experience with DHL is that they will assess duty on the total cost including shipping and then add on what they call a 'handling charge' for collecting the fees on behalf of the government. As a recent example of the the excesses of courier companies I just received a printed tee shirt I ordered from the UK from a seller on ebay. Initially the price quoted (automatically using the 'global shipping programme') was £53.51 but this included all fees including import and tax etc. This I thought was a bit steep given that the price of the tee shirt was £14.95. I asked the seller if they would send it by regular mail and explained how courier companies tend inflate costs fees in order to be sure of collecting their own extra fees on top of the cost of carriage whilst cosying up to the government. The seller looked into the cost of sending the tee-shirt by Royal Mail tracked/Thailand Post and the cost was £9.25 which put the total cost right around the threshold for duty and tax. The tee-shirt was mailed out to me on Feb 14th and it was delivered today with no duty or tax to pay and the full value was declared on the customs sticker. My cost of £24.21 was much much cheaper than the £53.51 through the 'global shipping programme'. I learned this lesson the hard way a few years ago and paid for it. The shipping time by regular mail was also quicker than that by the courier company. I live in a small village miles from anywhere and my regular postman usually knows where to find me if I am not at home when there is a package to be signed for where courier companies have real difficulty sometimes in finding my place. One courier driver even suggested leaving a package at a shop he was delivering to...........20 KM from where I live!...........he just did not want to drive to a place so far away. 

I have no problem paying duty What a balk at is the exorbitant charge of 1500 baht from DHL for clearing the package that is work  1,000 baht This is what we call in the United States  "predatory" behavior in business  

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I had the same thing when i ordered proactiv from amazon usa. They sent a bunch of nonsense forms in a mix of thai and english to apply for an import licence and probably some fees as well. I completely ignored these forms as well as acknowledging there questions and comments in emails. 

I referred them to my wife. They arranged pickup of her passport and no fees or anything were charged throughout. 

There is an ingredient in Proactiv is a controlled substance in thailand i might add.

A mix of ignorance and feigned stupidity seems to work well as does short abrupt replies to there efforts to complicate the matter. 

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Over the years I have had several packages delivered to me, every time the delivery is via DHL they have tried it on with me. One example was getting penny sticks of liquorice from UK, they tried to tell me it was medicine. I had to send proof that it was not.

I vowed I would never use them again, then last month a friend in UK sent me some stuff for my wife, face masks. Again DHL tried it on, this time I refused (well I don't use face masks, but I do eat liquorice), there is an option to make them return it back to the sender, so I did that.

I have now decided that I will never use them again, for anything. Coincidentally I have just received a package delivered via UPS, no problems at all. 

In my opinion DHLin Thailand are crooks.

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I worked a number of years for DHL, I can tell you they are a honest company. I also used FedEx, and UPS.. it is close to being all the same!

 

I bring back a large volume of vitamins each year since it got to last for a good year for the entire family here. If one open my bag they most likely would think I was bringing them in to sell.

The only place I stockpile my vitamins is from Costco, majority of them are Kirkland brand because I get the best bang for the buck example, Fish oil, 1000mg with Omega 3, 400 tablets for 9.00 USD, a small bottle at a Pharmacy like Facino, would be something like 1200 baht.

A few years ago, I decided to do a test run, with my DHL, discount put 3 big bottles into a small box, shipping it to Pattaya with tracking number, declare the value even put a copy of receipt in the box with the exchange rate?

Once it got to Thailand it got held up in custom, for those, DHL isn't running Thai custom.

It was stuck I called my DHL, contact and he checked told me basically the corruption deal etc.. they called the wife and said if you want it deliver the cost to clear 2000 baht. as noted more than what it was worth but the wife wanted it, lessen learn now I just bring it in by my check luggage I just separate the volume into the two luggage.

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On 2/20/2018 at 3:53 PM, Rc2702 said:

Vitamins may be subject to FDA and that will bump up cost and may incur further processing/delay/demurrage costs.longer you wait the more costs will rise and I would not be surprised if they change their mind and bump up cost due to the medicinal use factor. Dhl/UPS/TNT - reciever beware.

 

8000 baht bill was my lesson. Goods Value £150.

 

 

Demurrage.... LOL

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14 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

Yes, DHL is ripping you off. 

 

The way to stop it is to get your items through the mail.  Read what it says in the link below and you will see that up to 1500 Bt is duty free.

 

Thai Customs - IMPORTING POSTAL ITEMS

 

If your vitamins are coming from the USA then next time order from iHERB.  They ship to Thailand for a minimum cost and I have never had to pay duty.

I have also ordered several items through iHerb, 

without any issues.

Once you get going with iHerb they will start to send you via e-mails coupons to keep you coming back for more of the products they provide, which in my experience has all been very good.

 

I always avoid DHL, FEDEX, UPS on my shipments, 

since they find it their own personal duty to charge over the top duties, 

plus any and all charges they can tack on along the way.

 

If DHL remains admit about this outrageous charge, 

I would let the package go, as it doesn't appear to be worth the duty charge in this case.

At least they won't be able to benefit from the pocket money they are banking on you paying them.

It's not like they are going to enjoy consuming the vitamins, so it will most likely go in the trash, 

but at least the money won't land in their deep pockets.

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Think, about this?  I think these custom agents and cost, is just a small win for these agent. In this specific case, if you turn it down where does it go?  as noted can't send it back just imagine the stock they have and what they are selling everything on the black market?

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19 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

I have no problem paying duty What a balk at is the exorbitant charge of 1500 baht from DHL for clearing the package that is work  1,000 baht This is what we call in the United States  "predatory" behavior in business 

I have no problem in paying duty either but I will not pay it unnecessarily. Shipping by courier costs almost three times as much as international signed for mail and the shipping charge alone with courier companies puts the total cost (so far as calculating import duty, tax and fees) above the threshold for charging those fees........that is even without the cost/value of the goods. If I am looking to buy anything through the internet now I always ask if they will ship by regular mail. If they tell me they only ship by courier then I do not buy. Even if they do levy import charges when receiving packages with Thailand Post it is possible to appeal the charge which I have done successfully in the past and had charges reduced when their assessment has been in excess of provable (with paperwork) value/cost. I once had a 1700 baht charge reduced to 470 baht. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's my latest DHL tale...

 

If you order from Amazon US you'll see that most items from Amazon itself will have an import deposit fee set out and included in the total price (and i've received refunds in the past when these proved to be higher than needed...)

 

Ordered three items from Amazon - DHL arrived on Friday to deliver... with three extra imort/duty/customs charges  - quite substantial charges.

 

 I simply explained I'd already paid import duties... the delivery chappy took them back and said DHL would investigate.

 

(NOTE:- I'd recommend taking your phone out and taking a pic of all the papaerwork - particulaerly the dubious duty charges etc.... I didn't but afterwards thought it would have been the better option... from memory and a quick glance the ludicrous charges totalled about at least 20% of order value if not a chunk more...)

 

Later saw on the DHL tracking website that my parcels were listed as 'refused delivery'.

 

Contacted Amazon - I used their online webchat, which was fine and easy. Explained the situation - was told that I had paid the duties and that there should not be any extra fees and they would deal with it. 

 

Today Sunday - DHL deliver items, no charges, and delivery chappy mentions there's been a 'problem' with Amazon... indeed.

 

I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

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On 2/21/2018 at 12:25 PM, Gulfsailor said:

Its a mystery to me why so many people get upset with DHL and other couriers when it comes to assessing customs duties. It's standard practice around the world that shipments over a certain threshold will have duties (and VAT / sales tax) on them. These duties are based on the price of goods (before any discounts!) including shipping and insurance. If no shipping charge is specified customs assesses this themselves (normally 10-20% depending on mode of shipping). All duty rates and excise/luxury tax rates are published online. 

So as a buyer from goods abroad make sure that the seller;

- Adds an invoice which is plausible. Weird low values or 'gift descriptions' won't be accepted, and results in customs assessing fair market price themselves. 

- Writes the HS code and detailed description of the shipped goods on the invoice. 

- Only writes the final amount after applied discounts on the invoice. There shouldn't be any mention of discount at all on the invoice. 

- Notes the cost of shipping and insurance on the invoice. If the seller offers free shipping, then he should write down a plausible amount for the shipping anyway and deduct it from the goods price (without mentioning that, see point above)

- write the Incoterms on the invoice under which the goods are sold. 

 

The seller will also need all this info on the invoice to prepare his own export statements ( no biggie in US, but is a biggie in Europe, as without adequate export formalities the seller is still liable for VAT)

 

With all the above in place you will not have any surprise when importing goods into Thailand or any other country regardless of the Mail or courier service you use. 

 

(Disclaimer, as long as you don't try to import stuff that require a permit, like medicine, certain radio broadcast items, alcohol or tobacco)

 

Read my post again. DHL custom and practice is OUTSIDE OF THE NORMAL PROCEDURES.  GET IT?

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On 2/21/2018 at 12:23 PM, simon43 said:

I recently purchased a simple wire antenna from a US company for my radio amateur hobby. It cost $229. Having had previous experience with the 'kidnap and hold for financial ransom' tactics of DHL, UPS etc in Thailand, I wanted it to be shipped via USPS.

But the antenna support rods were too long to ship via USPS. The shipper offered to ship via UPS (no way!) or UPS I-Parcel, a new service where all handling and customs import charges are prepaid, thus eliminating any ransom tactics on the Thai side. (Or so I thought...)

So I paid an extra $143 to cover all shipping, handling and customs import charges.

The antenna package arrives in Bangkok and is promptly kidnapped by UPS Thailand, who send me the usual email demanding shipping, handling and custom fees.

I politely reply to them, pointing out that I'm using their I-Parcel service, so all fees are already paid 100%, so please deliver my package pronto.

UPS Thailand goes quiet for 2 days and then sends me an email to say that this antenna needs an import licence! (This is rubbish, because it is a personal import and no import licence is needed, as confirmed by RAST - Radio Amateur Society of Thailand - of which I am a lifelong member).

UPS Thailand refuse to deliver the package...

So I tell them to send it back to the shipper in the US and I'll get my full refund from them.

Get this!! UPS Thailand refuse to send the package back to the USA with the flawed argument "Since it needs an import licence to enter Thailand, it must therefore need an EXPORT licence to be returned to the USA shipper...." (That's Thai logic for you).

So here I am, with an expensive antenna sitting in UPS Thailand, who refuse to deliver it, refuse to return it to the shipper and - oh they also refuse to refund my money because it is not lost or damaged....

Any suggestions?

 

 

you may want to contact ups headquarters and share your story or publish a facebook page about your dilemma

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5 hours ago, ianf said:

Read my post again. DHL custom and practice is OUTSIDE OF THE NORMAL PROCEDURES.  GET IT?

You get a good explanation on how to prevent problems and your reaction is to start shouting. Not very nice.

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On 21/02/2018 at 10:59 AM, sjbrownderby said:

My experience with DHL is that they will assess duty on the total cost including shipping and then add on what they call a 'handling charge' for collecting the fees on behalf of the government.

That is normal practice worldwide.

 

On 21/02/2018 at 10:59 AM, sjbrownderby said:

Initially the price quoted (automatically using the 'global shipping programme')

Global shipping program is an ebay scam, and it surprises me that the seller agreed to send it by regular mail, if his listing was with GSP

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12 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Global shipping program is an ebay scam, and it surprises me that the seller agreed to send it by regular mail, if his listing was with GSP

It should not surprise you because I made it plain that I was willing to buy at the price quoted so long as the item was sent by regular mail, at a much lower total price. I also made it plain that I would not buy if the seller insisted on using the GSP and that I would be responsible for any import charges. Many ebay sellers do not know of the implications of using the GSP from the point of view of the buyer and sign up for it because they believe it makes the transaction easier for the buyer, whilst at the same time making more money for ebay. I always try to point out the difference in pricing between using the GSP and regular mail whilst explaining about the threshold for duty and VAT. It is a fact that most ebay sellers are unaware of this. 

 

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Ordered some shoes from the UK over 2 weeks ago, & the communication from gsp to be rubbish, as they promised me email updates. I had one.

 

A woman from DHL called me last Friday to say I had to 1700 baht import duty. I told her I'd paid gsp.

 

My lovely wife called DHL just now, & they confirmed I had already paid the duty, & my package will be with me on Friday.

 

Allegedly.

 

:clap2:

 

 

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An update to my problems trying to import a simple wire antenna, (UPS Thailand refused to deliver it and refused to return it to the shipper).

After a frustrating time trying to get UPS to - at least - return the package to the US shipper, I got nowhere with them! The package is stuck for the rest of eternity in their bonded warehouse.

So I contacted the shipper again, and pointed out that whilst I was $373 out of pocket through no fault of my own, it was their suggestion to use the I-Parcel service that got me in this mess. Furthermore, refunding $373 would hardly affect their bottom line, but it definitely affects mine!

Basically, through veiled threats of publicising my problems on social media, the shipper sent me a full refund for my $373 :)

So kudos to the shipper for doing the right thing.

But I throw lumps of cowsh*t at UPS and UPS-Thailand, who are IMHO misrepresenting their I-Parcel ('speedy delivery with no extra charges etc') service.

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23 minutes ago, simon43 said:

But I throw lumps of cowsh*t at UPS and UPS-Thailand, who are IMHO misrepresenting their I-Parcel ('speedy delivery with no extra charges etc') service.

 

They are not, because import duties are not the responsibility of UPS, and can't be considered extra charges levied by UPS.

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They are not, because import duties are not the responsibility of UPS, and can't be considered extra charges levied by UPS.



Wrong!

The UPS I-Parcel service is promoted as a 'pre-pay ALL customs import tax, shipping and handling charges'

I used this service on a previous occasion, and it did exactly what it claimed - my package was quickly delivered without any extra charges (whether that might be customs tax and handling fees) levied.
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1 minute ago, simon43 said:

 

 


Wrong!

The UPS I-Parcel service is promoted as a 'pre-pay ALL customs import tax, shipping and handling charges'

I used this service on a previous occasion, and it did exactly what it claimed - my package was quickly delivered without any extra charges (whether that might be customs tax and handling fees) levied.

 

 

Isn't it so that for importing wireless equipment you need a license in Thailand?

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Isn't it so that for importing wireless equipment you need a license in Thailand?



For specific wireless equipment, yes you do. But not for a roll of wire and some plastic rods.

Even assuming that an import licence was required for this, why did UPS Thailand make the ridiculous statement that it couldn't be sent back to the US shipper because it needed an EXPORT licence? The item was in their bonded warehouse, and not yet imported into Thailand.

Seems to me that UPS (or Thai customs) were trying to have it both ways. In the end, the shipper lost out financially and I lost out (in that now I have to go and make the antenna....).
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i-parcel has heaps of mainly very negative reviews



It sounds like a good idea that was screwed by thieving, corrupt customs officers.
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a several times of using DHL service from DHL's agent in Chiangmai to ship my stuff to the states and Europe. I've always had good experiences with them and got a really good service and advice. So I never ever had to deal with any custom issues because I've done everything correctly. Anyway, I've been using a service from this agent. http://www.cmparcel.com/

Now they've already moved to a landmark of Chiangmai. That's more easier for the customer like me. :)

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