UK - Can I 'back-pay' more than 6 years of NI?

[simon43]

I'm 59 years old, with a UK pension start date some 6 years away (66 years old).

I left the UK about 16 years ago, and bearing in mind my age, I thought it prudent to check on what value of pension, if any, Imight receive when I'm 66 years old.

I have lost my NI number. So the first thing to do is to post off the relevant form to the UK authorities to get this nummber notified to me.

Then I can go online and get a pension forecast.

I read on the government website that one can 'backpay' up to 6 years of NI, to top up the value of the pension.

I have 2 questions:

- That government web page says that one can backpay 6 years, but that there are some exceptions which allows one to backpay more than 6 years. However, there is no explanation of what these exceptions are. Does anyone know?

- I remain outside the UK, and plan to do so until my retirement date (7 years away). Can I contribute to my NI during these 7 years? IE - I will be able to contribute NI for these 7 years, plus at least 6 years of backpay NI, plus whatever number of years I have contributed when I worked in the UK.

[Mattd]

I registered for the Government Gateway and online access to my National Pension, I left the UK to live and work here in the back end of 1989, continued to pay a voluntary minimum amount of NI for a couple of years and then stopped.

When I checked online, I was going to be allowed to pay back over six years (I cannot remember the exact number, but it was closer to 10 years and was about 7,500 GBP) and so long as I continued to pay in to it until I am 67 and eligible for the state pension then I would have reached the required number of years of NI contributions needed to get the full pension amount, based on the current estimates, it was about 100 GBP more per week.

So I 'think' that they will allow you to pay more than six years in arrears if this means that you will get the required number of years of contributions before you reach retirement age.

It will depend on two factors, 1. How many years you paid in to it up until you stopped and 2. How many years are remaining before you reach the pensionable age. It is, I think, the sum of those and the resultant gap, if it is 6 years or less, then I don't think that they will let you pay over the six years to get a better pension.

As far as I am aware, the number of years of contributions will depend on whether it is the new or old state pension scheme you will be part of.

I do believe that you will be on the new state pension as you were born after 6th April 1951, in which case it is a minimum of 10 years to qualify and 30 years to get the full pension, more than 30 years can get more per week.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

 

Oh and yes, I see no reason why you cannot pay from now until retirement age.

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Mattd

[steve187]

class 2 self employed is about £2.80 a week and class 3 voluntary is about £15 a week, 6 years can be back paid before April 2019, if at class 2 or 3 will depend on your circumstances, 35 years of payments are required for a full pension, at least 10 years are required for a 10/35 pension.

 

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions

[evadgib]

I'm 5 years short but they wanted class 3 instead of class 2 after they moved the goalposts in 2016. Prior to that HMRC were happy with class 2 & it was them who wrote advising me to stop @ the 30 year point some years earlier. Anyone born 1958-1962-ish will be in the same boat. 

 

A letter received a few days ago says my pension can be drawn from the age of 66 and 6 months (8+ years hence).

 

I'd gladly pay 5 years at class 2 but am less than keen to jump in with both feet til i'm sure the concrete in the goalpost-footings has had a chance to set.

Edited February 20, 2018 by evadgib

[steve187]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

I'm 5 years short but they wanted class 3 instead of class 2 after they moved the goalposts in 2016. Prior to that HMRC were happy with class 2 & it was them who wrote advising me to stop @ the 30 year point some years earlier. Anyone born 1958-1962-ish will be in the same boat. 

 

A letter received a few days ago says my pension can be drawn from the age of 66 and 6 months (8+ years hence).

 

I'd gladly pay 5 years at class 2 but am less than keen to jump in with both feet til i'm sure the goalpost-footings have at least been concreted.

class 2 will stop in the near future it was put off until 2019

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, steve187 said:

class 2 will stop in the near future it was put off until 2019

I might not bother full stop; or could chance an appeal of their 'residency' malarky although they fobbed me off when I enquired some months ago by phone. I might try writing to them instead as I believe there is some leeway attached to my former profession if I bang the drum hard enough and in tune.

Edited February 20, 2018 by evadgib

[steve187]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

a minimum of 10 years to qualify and 30 years to get the full pension

35 years required now

[simon43]

I will have nowhere near 35 years. I started work at age 26 after post-grad, left the UK about 17 years later, but in those 17 years I worked in a variety of employed and limited Co roles (I was a satcomms contract design guy). I simply can't remember how many years of NI were paid, but no doubt this will become clear when I apply for a pension statement.

In any case, backpaying NI and paying from now until my retirement date might get me about 15 years or something in NI contributions, which will go a long way towards my meagre alcohol expenditure each month.

[Mattd]

12 hours ago, steve187 said:

35 years required now

I took the info from https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

3. Eligibility

You must claim the new State Pension if you reach State Pension age on or after 6 April 2016.

The earliest you can get the basic State Pension is when you reach State Pension age.

To get the full basic State Pension you need a total of 30 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions or credits. This means you were either:

• working and paying National Insurance
• getting National Insurance Credits, for example for unemployment, sickness or as a parent or carer
• paying voluntary National Insurance contributions

If you have fewer than 30 qualifying years, your basic State Pension will be less than £122.30 per week but you might be able to top up by paying voluntary National Insurance contributions.

 

Edit as just seen where it changed!

You’ll need 35 qualifying years to get the full new State Pension.

You’ll get a proportion of the new State Pension if you have between 10 and 35 qualifying years.

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Mattd

[topt]

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 7:49 PM, simon43 said:

In any case, backpaying NI and paying from now until my retirement date might get me about 15 years or something in NI contributions, which will go a long way towards my meagre alcohol expenditure each month.

OP I would suggest that you need to get an advisor to call you - yes they called me back in Thailand.......

After looking at my NI record online I was looking to pay some part years in the past (cheaper). I was told that there was no point as they would not count towards increasing my pension - I could only pay since the change from 2016? and onwards. This was because I had 30 years under the old scheme. Everyone will be different.

[MaeJoMTB]

10 minutes ago, topt said:

I could only pay since the change from 2016? and onwards. This was because I had 30 years under the old scheme. Everyone will be different.

Nope, I'm exactly the same (30 years already, giving me GBP118 p/w).

I can do 5 years of voluntary from 2016 on, adding GBP4.25 for each year (maximum GBP140).

 

As I can pay them in arrears, I waiting to see if I'm still alive before paying any voluntary money.

Edited February 22, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[rixalex]

15 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Nope, I'm exactly the same (30 years already, giving me GBP118 p/w).

I can do 5 years of voluntary from 2016 on, adding GBP4.25 for each year (maximum GBP140).

 

As I can pay them in arrears, I waiting to see if I'm still alive before paying any voluntary money.

But how will you know that you have died?

[alwaysrainsinUK]

On 20/02/2018 at 11:17 AM, steve187 said:

class 2 self employed is about £2.80 a week and class 3 voluntary is about £15 a week, 6 years can be back paid before April 2019, if at class 2 or 3 will depend on your circumstances, 35 years of payments are required for a full pension, at least 10 years are required for a 10/35 pension.

 

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions

Yes so if the OP has already the full 35yrs of stamps on then he dont need to add any more .

[Jonmarleesco]

I believe it's actually seven, but apart from making future provision, that would be it.

[steve187]

33 minutes ago, alwaysrainsinUK said:

Yes so if the OP has already the full 35yrs of stamps on then he dont need to add any more .

the only way you could gain maybe, would be to replace any contracted out years with non contracted out years.

[Jonmarleesco]

1 hour ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Nope, I'm exactly the same (30 years already, giving me GBP118 p/w).

That's the old system. You are now in the new one, with different calculations, different figures, and 35 years of contributions to achieve the maximum.

[steve187]

1 hour ago, Jonmarleesco said:

That's the old system. You are now in the new one, with different calculations, different figures, and 35 years of contributions to achieve the maximum.

you need to get a fresh forecast

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, Jonmarleesco said:

That's the old system. You are now in the new one, with different calculations, different figures, and 35 years of contributions to achieve the maximum.

No it's the new system, you login online and they tell you your old entitlement, and what you can add to it.

List all the years you paid NI, and those you missed since you applied for your NI number.

I can add another 5 years on the new system @4.25 per year to my previous 30 years on the old system worth GBP118.

 

Some people seem to have problems understanding my posts, either I'm suffering dementia, or a lot of posters are more stupid than I can believe. So I expect it's dementia from me.

 

@steve187

You do know all this stuff is online? and instantly available?

https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

And tax rebates, all online ...... no need to phone/write/email.

Fast too, about 10 days from filling in an online form to tax repaid in my bank account.

Edited February 22, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[DefaultName]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

the only way you could gain maybe, would be to replace any contracted out years with non contracted out years.

Contracted out years count for less than a full year towards your State Pension.  So, as I had at the time been in a contracted out scheme for 20+ years, I tried to find out just how much a contracted out year DID count for - 3/4 of a full year, 1/2, 1/3, or what - so that I could look at topping up if needed.  I was unable to get a figure.  AND I WAS WORKING FOR HMRC AT THE TIME!

 

So, have fun with this one.

 

Fortunately for me, I do have more than the needed 35 years according to the GOV.UK website.  Still a few years from claiming it though, governments change, rules change.............  Rather annoying to still have to pay (a little) NI on my work pension, when it won't increase my State Pension and, as an expat, I lose my rights to free NHS treatment, but it's swings and roundabouts, some you lose.

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Fortunately for me, I do have more than the needed 35 years according to the GOV.UK website.  Still a few years from claiming it though, governments change, rules change.............  Rather annoying to still have to pay (a little) NI on my work pension, when it won't increase my State Pension and, as an expat, I lose my rights to free NHS treatment, but it's swings and roundabouts, some you lose.

Only if you tell them where you live.

They have no records of addresses for 40% of pension claimants. 

[sometimewoodworker]

28 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

No it's the new system, you login online and they tell you your old entitlement, and what you can add to it.

List all the years you paid NI, and those you missed since you applied for your NI number.

I can add another 5 years on the new system @4.25 per year to my previous 30 years on the old system worth GBP118.

 

Some people seem to have problems understanding my posts, either I'm suffering dementia, or a lot of posters are more stupid than I can believe. So I expect it's dementia from me.

 

@steve187

You do know all this stuff is online? and instantly available?

https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

And tax rebates, all online ...... no need to phone/write/email.

Fast too, about 10 days from filling in an online form to tax repaid in my bank account.

You either will get a pension under the new system, in which case to get the full pension you need 35 years. Or you get a pension under the old system in which case you only need 30 years for the full pension. 

 

This is ignoring contracted out years as you should be getting a pension from another source so that is why you contradicted out in the first place.

 

nobody ever has a combination old and new pension.

[steve187]

27 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

@steve187

You do know all this stuff is online? and instantly available?

many thanks, i need to sort out this year while in the uk

[simon43]

Yes so if the OP has already the full 35yrs of stamps on then he dont need to add any more

If you re-read my posts, I explain that I started work at age 26, and then left the UK at age 43, and during those 17 years I worked as an employee and also via my own ltd company as an electronics contractor. So I will only have perhaps 10 years of NI payments.

[steve187]

7 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You either will get a pension under the new system, in which case to get the full pension you need 35 years. Or you get a pension under the old system in which case you only need 30 years for the full pension. 

 

This is ignoring contracted out years as you should be getting a pension from another source so that is why you contradicted out in the first place.

 

nobody ever has a combination old and new pension.

are you sure

Edited February 22, 2018 by steve187

[Dene16]

On 20/02/2018 at 10:05 AM, Mattd said:

in which case it is a minimum of 10 years to qualify and 30 years to get the full pension, more than 30 years can get more per week.

The latest requirement under the new scheme requires 36 years of NI contributions. Anyone under the old scheme can continue to contribute to gain the larger payment of £150/160 per week ( even if you were contracted out )

[steve187]

 

 

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

If you re-read my posts, I explain that I started work at age 26, and then left the UK at age 43, and during those 17 years I worked as an employee and also via my own ltd company as an electronics contractor. So I will only have perhaps 10 years of NI payments.

should you not have 17 years then,  you would have paid class 1 for both jobs

Edited February 22, 2018 by steve187

[rixalex]

5 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

If you re-read my posts, I explain that I started work at age 26, and then left the UK at age 43, and during those 17 years I worked as an employee and also via my own ltd company as an electronics contractor. So I will only have perhaps 10 years of NI payments.

The years prior to working at 26 will likely be added to your total number of contributing years, assuming you were studying.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 20/02/2018 at 7:49 PM, simon43 said:

I will have nowhere near 35 years. I started work at age 26 after post-grad, left the UK about 17 years later, but in those 17 years I worked in a variety of employed and limited Co roles (I was a satcomms contract design guy). I simply can't remember how many years of NI were paid, but no doubt this will become clear when I apply for a pension statement.

In any case, backpaying NI and paying from now until my retirement date might get me about 15 years or something in NI contributions, which will go a long way towards my meagre alcohol expenditure each month.

You have more years than you think, you almost certainly got credit during your years of full time education.

 

once you have your NI number you will be told how many years you can pay and which ones. It is almost always best to pay as soon as possible because the rate goes up if you don't.

 

also it is the best value for money you will ever find as the recovery time for any years you make up is just less than 4 years, of course if you die less than 4 years after you start collecting your pension you lose, but you're dead and don't care.

[MaeJoMTB]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

The years prior to working at 26 will likely be added to your total number of contributing years, assuming you were studying.

No need to assume, you can look online and it tells you.

I got a years NI payments for working as a shelf stacker in Sainsbury's at weekends in 1972.

4 years missed when I was at University, 2 years missed when I didn't bother working in my 40s.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 minutes ago, steve187 said:

are you sure

Yes