More than 60 lawmakers demand UK PM May delivers Brexit with full autonomy - BBC

[webfact]

More than 60 lawmakers demand UK PM May delivers Brexit with full autonomy - BBC

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May delivers a speech to students and staff during her visit to Derby College in Derby, Britain, February 19, 2018. REUTERS/Christopher Furlong/Pool

 

LONDON (Reuters) - More than 60 lawmakers in Prime Minister Theresa May's Conservative Party have signed a letter demanding that she deliver a Brexit that ensures "full regulatory autonomy" for Britain after it leaves in March 2019, the BBC reported.

 

May, whose government and party is divided over Brexit, has just eight months to strike a withdrawal deal with the EU but insists Britain will leave at 2300 GMT on March 29, 2019.

 

The 62 Conservative lawmakers signed a letter from the European Research Group that gave suggestions to May including ensuring that Britain is free to negotiate and sign trade deals with other countries as soon as it leaves the EU.

 

The EU has repeated asked May to clarify how she sees Britain's future relationship with the EU after Brexit, though she is wary of setting out too many details because her party is so divided over the issue.

 

(Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Alistair Smout)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-21

[AGareth2]

either exit or remain

not half measures

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, webfact said:

The 62 Conservative lawmakers signed a letter from the European Research Group that gave suggestions to May including ensuring that Britain is free to negotiate and sign trade deals with other countries as soon as it leaves the EU.

I suppose that would mean hard brexit without being part of the common market. Well, that's one way to do it.

 

Btw is that 62 out of 650 or 1442 members?

 

[pagallim]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

either exit or remain

not half measures

Absolutely.   I keep hearing calls for clarity on Brexit from the Government, though those making such calls must be deaf, as for more than a year, I've heard May constantly repeat that the UK is leaving the European Union, it is leaving the single market, it is leaving the Customs Union, and as recently as her speech in Munich the other day, there will be no second referendum.   How much more clarity is required?   She and others of the Government have repeated that they want an equitable relationship in all of the current areas of co-operation with the EU, i.e. trade, security etc etc.   Guarantees for the future of those EU citizens currently in the EU (and those that enter up to 29th March 2019) have also been given, as well as committing to the UK's share of the current EU budget through to 2020.

 

What the Government cannot give clarity on is the eventual outcome of the negotiations with the EU.

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

I suppose that would mean hard brexit without being part of the common market. Well, that's one way to do it.

 

Btw is that 62 out of 650 or 1442 members?

 

 

It is 62 out of 316 Conservative MPs.

 

It illustrates the split in the Parliamentary Conservative Party.

 

And the ratio of Parliamentary feeling as a whole.

 

Which is why (when the polls are favourable and the time is felt to be right) Parliament will seek to prevent Brexit altogether.

 

And who, or what, is to stop them?

 

There is certainly nothing in law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, pagallim said:

Absolutely.   I keep hearing calls for clarity on Brexit from the Government, though those making such calls must be deaf, as for more than a year, I've heard May constantly repeat that the UK is leaving the European Union, it is leaving the single market, it is leaving the Customs Union, and as recently as her speech in Munich the other day, there will be no second referendum.   How much more clarity is required?   She and others of the Government have repeated that they want an equitable relationship in all of the current areas of co-operation with the EU, i.e. trade, security etc etc.   Guarantees for the future of those EU citizens currently in the EU (and those that enter up to 29th March 2019) have also been given, as well as committing to the UK's share of the current EU budget through to 2020.

 

What the Government cannot give clarity on is the eventual outcome of the negotiations with the EU.

I see that you haven't been following the Northern Ireland - Ireland border situation.

[pagallim]

The situation is that a vote has been promised on the acceptance of what terms have been agreed between the UK and EU.   It will not be a vote on whether to remain or leave.   If Parliament votes against accepting the negotiated terms, it will in effect trigger the hardest of hard Brexits.

[pagallim]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

I see that you haven't been following the Northern Ireland - Ireland border situation.

Absolutely I have, and for that reason I believe that you will see Ireland increasingly pressure the Commission to agree a trade deal, as it is Ireland who stand most to lose with a hard border situation, which is, as Barnier has pointed out, an inevitable should no trade deal be reached.   It's as much the EU's obligation to ensure the continuity of the Good Friday Agreement as it is the UK's.   Varadkar has been toeing the EU solidarity line so far, let's see what happens the next few months when he comes under pressure from his farmers in particular.   Ireland's government is a fairly fragile coalition also, and there will be some blood letting and jockeying of position happening amongst their ranks.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, pagallim said:

Absolutely I have, and for that reason I believe that you will see Ireland increasingly pressure the Commission to agree a trade deal, as it is Ireland who stand most to lose with a hard border situation, which is, as Barnier has pointed out, an inevitable should no trade deal be reached.   It's as much the EU's obligation to ensure the continuity of the Good Friday Agreement as it is the UK's.   Varadkar has been toeing the EU solidarity line so far, let's see what happens the next few months when he comes under pressure from his farmers in particular.   Ireland's government is a fairly fragile coalition also, and there will be some blood letting and jockeying of position happening amongst their ranks.

I think you missed the part where the UK government promised no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland

 In December, in order to break a deadlock in talks, May promised no hard border on the island of Ireland after Brexit. To guarantee that, she pledged that if no other solution was possible, the rules of Northern Ireland will remain aligned with those of EU member Ireland so that no border is needed. But she also promised that there would be no border between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain – suggesting that the whole of the U.K. would have to keep its laws aligned.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-19/brexit-bulletin-theresa-may-s-vision-emerges

[pagallim]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I think you missed the part where the UK government promised no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland

 In December, in order to break a deadlock in talks, May promised no hard border on the island of Ireland after Brexit. To guarantee that, she pledged that if no other solution was possible, the rules of Northern Ireland will remain aligned with those of EU member Ireland so that no border is needed. But she also promised that there would be no border between Northern Ireland and mainland Britain – suggesting that the whole of the U.K. would have to keep its laws aligned.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-19/brexit-bulletin-theresa-may-s-vision-emerges

The UK (and by definition Northern Ireland), through the EU Withdrawal Bill (formerly known as the Great Repeal Bill) currently going through Parliament, is adopting all EU legislation and regulation will become UK law from 30th March 2019.   The UK, in continuing to wish to trade with the EU, has to maintain EU standards and regulations in order to do so, certainly as far as UK exports to the EU is concerned.   That is pretty easy for anyone to understand, and for UK businesses, a pretty seamless process.   

 

The block to continuing trade between Ireland and the UK will come from barriers presented by the EU, not the UK.   The UK is Ireland's largest trading partner by far, some 40% of it's exports, most of which is agriculture.   My point is that there is will on the part of the UK to ensure that border conditions between the North and Republic remain as they are.   Where is the will of the EU through it's negotiators to ensure the same.

[adammike]

2 minutes ago, pagallim said:

The UK (and by definition Northern Ireland), through the EU Withdrawal Bill (formerly known as the Great Repeal Bill) currently going through Parliament, is adopting all EU legislation and regulation will become UK law from 30th March 2019.   The UK, in continuing to wish to trade with the EU, has to maintain EU standards and regulations in order to do so, certainly as far as UK exports to the EU is concerned.   That is pretty easy for anyone to understand, and for UK businesses, a pretty seamless process.   

 

The block to continuing trade between Ireland and the UK will come from barriers presented by the EU, not the UK.   The UK is Ireland's largest trading partner by far, some 40% of it's exports, most of which is agriculture.   My point is that there is will on the part of the UK to ensure that border conditions between the North and Republic remain as they are.   Where is the will of the EU through it's negotiators to ensure the same.

The DUP has a red line and that's one rule for the whole of the UK.The maybot may well promise no border between the republic and northern Ireland but the EU can stick a border on the republic side of the border.

[pagallim]

2 minutes ago, adammike said:

The DUP has a red line and that's one rule for the whole of the UK.The maybot may well promise no border between the republic and northern Ireland but the EU can stick a border on the republic side of the border.

Absolutely, and another illustration to my point that the EU is equally responsible for managing the future border situation through it's intended relationship with the UK.

[adammike]

1 hour ago, pagallim said:

Absolutely, and another illustration to my point that the EU is equally responsible for managing the future border situation through it's intended relationship with the UK.

The EU's job is to manage their borders, when and if the UK leaves the EU that's what they will do.They can not. will not and won't be allowed to interfere in the affairs of a non EU state and that's what the UK will be.I am reading today that the UK will ask for an open-ended period of transition after march next year.Its not over till the fat Boris sings.

 

 

 

[pagallim]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

The EU's job is to manage their borders, when and if the UK leaves the EU that's what they will do.They can not. will not and won't be allowed to interfere in the affairs of a non EU state and that's what the UK will be.I am reading today that the UK will ask for an open-ended period of transition after march next year.Its not over till the fat Boris sings.

 

 

 

Not sure of your choice of reading material, however, any form of transition lasting beyond 2020 is to say the least suspect.   

 

As regards the EU managing their borders, as I'm sure you're aware, there are somewhat differences of opinion in the ranks already, with Hungary and Poland, Austria and Italy just itching to put up barriers again.   Bring in a weakened Merkel and universal consensus doesn't seem to be on the horizon in the foreseeable future.   We're not even talking about who's going to pick up the slack of the UK's contribution to the EU budget yet, with negotiations with Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia etc all looking to join the EU club with the inevitable strain that's going to put on the EU budget.   Hopefully the UK will be observing with interest and an occasional shake of the head, and look  of wise and sage like sympathy.

[adammike]

2 hours ago, pagallim said:

Not sure of your choice of reading material, however, any form of transition lasting beyond 2020 is to say the least suspect.   

 

As regards the EU managing their borders, as I'm sure you're aware, there are somewhat differences of opinion in the ranks already, with Hungary and Poland, Austria and Italy just itching to put up barriers again.   Bring in a weakened Merkel and universal consensus doesn't seem to be on the horizon in the foreseeable future.   We're not even talking about who's going to pick up the slack of the UK's contribution to the EU budget yet, with negotiations with Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia etc all looking to join the EU club with the inevitable strain that's going to put on the EU budget.   Hopefully the UK will be observing with interest and an occasional shake of the head, and look  of wise and sage like sympathy.

And France according to my reading matter.the countries you mention are against non EU immigration especially Islam and black Africa,they also have a rich history of embracing fascism so it's no surprise to see them lurching right,but you have enough to worry about with your home grown Tory right,stones and glass houses come to mind with the 52%.

 

[pagallim]

10 hours ago, adammike said:

I am reading today that the UK will ask for an open-ended period of transition after march next year.Its not over till the fat Boris sings.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch........

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/21/brexit-transition-period-open-ended-uk-eu-position-paper

[dunroaming]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:13 AM, oilinki said:

I suppose that would mean hard brexit without being part of the common market. Well, that's one way to do it.

 

Btw is that 62 out of 650 or 1442 members?

 

The pertinent thing about the 62 is that that is enough to launch a leadership challenge.  It is simply a ransom note to May threatening to oust her if she doesn't do what they want.  That is why she is having another cabinet meeting today to try to "reassure" her critics.  "Try" being the operative word.

[champers]

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The pertinent thing about the 62 is that that is enough to launch a leadership challenge.  It is simply a ransom note to May threatening to oust her if she doesn't do what they want.  That is why she is having another cabinet meeting today to try to "reassure" her critics.  "Try" being the operative word.

62 is enough to launch a leadership challenge, but nowhere near enough to win one. Brexiters are outnumbered by Remainers at a ratio of 4 to 1 in the Commons. The Brexiters will not oust May.

Boris, Rees-Mogg, Gove, Davies or Fox have no hope of becoming PM. That ship has sailed; in the summer of 2016.

Edited February 22, 2018 by champers

[Air Smiles]

23 hours ago, pagallim said:

Absolutely.   I keep hearing calls for clarity on Brexit from the Government, though those making such calls must be deaf, as for more than a year, I've heard May constantly repeat that the UK is leaving the European Union, it is leaving the single market, it is leaving the Customs Union, and as recently as her speech in Munich the other day, there will be no second referendum.   How much more clarity is required?   She and others of the Government have repeated that they want an equitable relationship in all of the current areas of co-operation with the EU, i.e. trade, security etc etc.   Guarantees for the future of those EU citizens currently in the EU (and those that enter up to 29th March 2019) have also been given, as well as committing to the UK's share of the current EU budget through to 2020.

 

What the Government cannot give clarity on is the eventual outcome of the negotiations with the EU.

Just reating over and over that Brexit will happen without detailing what exactly Brexit will look like or even when Brexit will happen... Is not providing clarity.

[pagallim]

3 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

Just reating over and over that Brexit will happen without detailing what exactly Brexit will look like or even when Brexit will happen... Is not providing clarity.

What bit of my comment "What the Government cannot give clarity on is the eventual outcome of the negotiations with the EU." do you not understand?   How can they say exactly what Brexit will look like or when it will happen until the negotiations are concluded?

 

Let me help you:

 

negotiation

ni-goh-shee-ey-shuh n

 

noun

1.

mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction oragreement:

the negotiation of a treaty.

2.

the act or process of negotiating.

3.

an instance or the result of negotiating.

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, pagallim said:

What bit of my comment "What the Government cannot give clarity on is the eventual outcome of the negotiations with the EU." do you not understand?   How can they say exactly what Brexit will look like or when it will happen until the negotiations are concluded?

 

Let me help you:

 

negotiation

ni-goh-shee-ey-shuh n

 

noun

1.

mutual discussion and arrangement of the terms of a transaction oragreement:

the negotiation of a treaty.

2.

the act or process of negotiating.

3.

an instance or the result of negotiating.

Still, it might help if Teresa May had a clue:

Angela Merkel mocks Theresa May's Brexit negotiations during behind-the-scenes meeting with journalists

Angela Merkel has mocked Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating tactics, saying the two leaders end up going round in circles because Mrs May never says what she wants.

The German Chancellor said that whenever she asks the Prime Minister what she wants from the EU, she always replies: “Make me an offer.”...

According to ITV’s Robert Peston, Mrs Merkel’s constant refrain to Mrs May when she asks for an offer is to say: “But you’re leaving - we don’t have to make you an offer. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/

[pagallim]

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Still, it might help if Teresa May had a clue:

Angela Merkel mocks Theresa May's Brexit negotiations during behind-the-scenes meeting with journalists

Angela Merkel has mocked Theresa May’s Brexit negotiating tactics, saying the two leaders end up going round in circles because Mrs May never says what she wants.

The German Chancellor said that whenever she asks the Prime Minister what she wants from the EU, she always replies: “Make me an offer.”...

According to ITV’s Robert Peston, Mrs Merkel’s constant refrain to Mrs May when she asks for an offer is to say: “But you’re leaving - we don’t have to make you an offer. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/

close - play - chest - cards.   Re-arrange to form a well known proverb.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, pagallim said:

close - play - chest - cards.   Re-arrange to form a well known proverb.

Except that it's going to be a lot worse for the UK if the deadline comes and nothing is arranged. You seem to be operating under the opposite assumption - that it's the EU under greater pressure. A hard Brexit is to the benefit of neither, but it's much worse for the UK.

[pagallim]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Except that it's going to be a lot worse for the UK if the deadline comes and nothing is arranged. You seem to be operating under the opposite assumption - that it's the EU under greater pressure. A hard Brexit is to the benefit of neither, but it's much worse for the UK.

Debatable when you look at the respective export/import figures.   As an example, 20% of all cars exported from Germany globally, not just within the EU, go to the UK.   Again, the impact of WTO tariffs will be very much dependent on Pound/Euro exchange rates.   The BoE seem to be well prepared for any of the potential outcomes so the chance of any form of financial crisis in the UK is very slim.

 

Interestingly, this from todays Times:   

"The number of EU citizens working in the UK rose in the year after the Brexit referendum but the pace of growth is slowing, official figures show.

 

In spite of a feared mass departure, the number of Europeans employed rose to 2.34 million between October and December last year — up 100,000 on the same period a year earlier."

[dunroaming]

31 minutes ago, pagallim said:

Debatable when you look at the respective export/import figures.   As an example, 20% of all cars exported from Germany globally, not just within the EU, go to the UK.   Again, the impact of WTO tariffs will be very much dependent on Pound/Euro exchange rates.   The BoE seem to be well prepared for any of the potential outcomes so the chance of any form of financial crisis in the UK is very slim.

 

Interestingly, this from todays Times:   

"The number of EU citizens working in the UK rose in the year after the Brexit referendum but the pace of growth is slowing, official figures show.

 

In spite of a feared mass departure, the number of Europeans employed rose to 2.34 million between October and December last year — up 100,000 on the same period a year earlier."

Yes of course it rose after the EU citizens knew that they had to make the move to the UK before Brexit was finalised.  Once May said that all EU citizens living in the UK can stay without penalty there was obviously going to be a surge.  However, who are the people flooding in?  More doctors and nurses?  No, they are the ones who are welcome everywhere and that is exactly the sort of people we need to stay and those are the ones who have already said they will leave.

[dunroaming]

55 minutes ago, pagallim said:

close - play - chest - cards.   Re-arrange to form a well known proverb.

Yes you are right that is how May is playing it.  "I am here to negotiate but I am not going to tell you what we want to negotiate".  Of course she continues to tell us all in the UK what she wants from Brexit but doesn't seem to want to share that with the EU.

 

These are not negotiations.  You can only play your cards close to your chest if you have an ace or two.  May hasn't. 

[pagallim]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 

 

These are not negotiations.  You can only play your cards close to your chest if you have an ace or two.  May hasn't. 

I can think of one thing.   Money.   In spite of the rhetoric surrounding the agreements in principle of both sides in December, there is nothing so far that is legally binding.   Everything is dependent on eventual negotiated outcome, and whilst I believe that the UK does have the firm intent to hold good on what it's said it will do, there is also the expectation that the EU will prove to be pragmatic also.

 

Going to be a few interesting weeks ahead, and something of a watershed.   What with the Italian elections, Merkel still trying to form a government, and resumption of negotiations after the UK's roll out in the next week of what the UK expects.

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, pagallim said:

I can think of one thing.   Money.   In spite of the rhetoric surrounding the agreements in principle of both sides in December, there is nothing so far that is legally binding.   Everything is dependent on eventual negotiated outcome, and whilst I believe that the UK does have the firm intent to hold good on what it's said it will do, there is also the expectation that the EU will prove to be pragmatic also.

 

Going to be a few interesting weeks ahead, and something of a watershed.   What with the Italian elections, Merkel still trying to form a government, and resumption of negotiations after the UK's roll out in the next week of what the UK expects.

In a time when nothing is agreed between the UK and the EU, May has pledged to pay the billions and the EU have accepted that offer.  Now Britain could go back on that but I think that is unlikely.  She may also go back on the agreement with Ireland over the soft border but I think that is more about her trying to make that work.  The problem for Theresa is that she is on the back foot, mainly caused by rash early statements made before the details of Brexit had been studied.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, pagallim said:

In spite of a feared mass departure, the number of Europeans employed rose to 2.34 million between October and December last year — up 100,000 on the same period a year earlier."

And 130,000 EU citizens living in the UK left.  Try looking at the ones leaving against the new ones arriving when it comes to the quality.

 

But the Brexiteers will be comforted by the fact that more are leaving than arriving.  Never mind whether we have people to fill those jobs.

[pagallim]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

And 130,000 EU citizens living in the UK left.  Try looking at the ones leaving against the new ones arriving when it comes to the quality.

 

But the Brexiteers will be comforted by the fact that more are leaving than arriving.  Never mind whether we have people to fill those jobs.

So, based on the figures (100,000 more Europeans employed, 130,000 Europeans left), 30,000 unemployed Europeans left the UK.

 

We can go on and on with some pissing contest based on statistics and forecasts, but fact remains that for those Europeans who seek to work and have attractive skills and experience, the UK has a great deal to offer.