Using Maslows Hierarchy of Needs to Ascertain Why Some Expats Fail in Thailand

[Gecko123]

@Tapster

(Continuation of post #53)

 

Socialization as farang-farang couple with other foreigners in Thailand:

 

I think being a Western couple retiring in Thailand presents two big challenges. While there are many foreign couples in Bangkok and other urban centers, many are here on temporary or semi-temporary assignment and almost all of them are younger than retirement age for obvious reasons. So due to their semi-temporary work status and their younger age, working age foreign couples aren't always a natural social fit for older retired couples.

 

Foreign couple retirees seem to gravitate to Chiang Mai, Bangkok and seaside destinations like Hua Hin, Phuket, Koh Samui, and Koh Chang. The problem for a foreign retiree couple is that there are also many foreign men who are attracted to these same destinations who have Thai wives or girl friends considerably younger than the foreign spouse. Presumably most foreign couples who move here would understand this dynamic before moving here. But if the foreign wife, or possibly both she and her husband, don't share a liberal attitude towards this, social tensions can arise. If the foreign couple is giving dagger eyes to every guy with a young Thai woman on his arm they pass on the street, they are likely going to be socially ostracized in turn. Even if the couple comes across as open-minded and non-judgmental, some foreign men with younger Thai wives automatically assume that a Western woman is going to be judgmental even if she's not.

 

Just gauging from some of the posts I've read coming from posters living in Chiang Mai, I am left with the impression that there are enough older expat women there to form some sort of social network. You hear a lot of talk about volunteering, monthly brunches, and civic Rotary Club type activities. Personally, that lifestyle doesn't appeal to me in the least. If I wanted to make my social life centered around hanging out with other people from my home country, I'd just as soon stay home.

 

On the positive side, if you aspire to socially integrate into the Thai community, your foreign wife could be a golden asset in terms of making inroads into the Thai community. She could barter teaching Western cooking in exchange for Thai cooking lessons or tutor neighbor kids in English in exchange for someone teaching you and her Thai. Her newfound Thai cooking skills could be parlayed into inviting neighbors over to sample her culinary accomplishments. Her or your interest in Thai cooking and food ingredients could be a great way to interact with Thais at the market or in restaurants.

 

Getting back to your earlier comment about "still not feeling settled in" after months of living here, I think this is a trap many foreigners fall into. First time visitors to Thailand are often struck by how friendly and outgoing Thais are, right? They think 'Hey, I could get used to this. I'm not the most sociable guy on the planet and being around all these friendly people will help me come out of my shell. I'm such a novelty as a foreigner, everybody thinks I'm rich, all the women want to have my baby (I'm being a little bit facetious, but you get my drift), I'll be in seventh heaven. I'm calling the moving van today!'

 

This initial friendliness from Thais makes some people think that not much effort is needed to befriend Thais. They think you can sit back like the Prince of Persia and people will flock to your doorstep. Some even have to find out the hard way that people will stop smiling if you don't return their smiles. People mistakenly believe that the only reason why their early-on contacts with Thais hadn't yet blossomed into close-knit Western-style friendships is because they were only visiting Thailand temporarily. They assume that once they've moved here, friendships will rapidly progress much in the same way relationships progress in the West. And when this doesn't happen, some people feel disappointed, frustrated, even deceived.

 

But the truth is that to forge meaningful relationships with Thais requires a considerable amount of effort. It is anything but an effortless process and requires considerable thoughtfulness about how to build trust and understanding, avoid faux pas, and to sort out acceptable cultural differences from unacceptable behaviors. It takes effort and a fair amount of skill to build cross-cultural relationships where ever you are. It isn't something learned overnight, but for me the process of developing these relationships is what being here is all about.

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:50 PM, JAFO said:

I have a question to the OP.  Why do foreigners spend time trying to figure out why they fail here. Boredom?  I find it quite odd. I mean come on. All the reasons people fail here are likely the same reasons people back in their home country fail. In the US people fail all the time why does being an expat warrant this deep dive as to why? People self destruct the same all over the world. 

 

Anyway it's a strange dynamic reading these threads. I hope you figure it all out and it helps you. 

 

 

I think you have it wrong. We post about our fails so others that want to learn can avoid doing so.

Of course we can warn about Thai women as much as we like when newbie men continue to claim that THEIR Thai woman is "different", and it will make no difference.

 

Back home I'd have been too busy to have time to be posting on a home forum, so that would never have been a starter for me anyway.

[JAFO]

42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Back home I'd have been too busy to have time to be posting on a home forum, so that would never have been a starter for me anyway.

Yes.  I do not post much and drop by this site to see if anything peaks my interest but generally I am not a Forum type.  I go off and learn by myself.  While some post their "Lessons learned" on relationships,marriage and Thai girl woes but the problem is that everybody is so different so there really is nothing to be learned but rather a "Hmmmm" and move on.

[473geo]

I started and got along way into detailed analysis, then I just thought, life is good for me!

 

I concluded that maybe I have just been lucky in life, or maybe I am different, if only because I carry the ability to ride occasional waves of adversity with no more than a backward glance, then move on......

 

Anyway good luck guys, I am happy with my 'lot', long may my plans with my wife and children continue to bear the fruits for a wonderful future.

[Gecko123]

18 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Yes.  I do not post much and drop by this site to see if anything peaks my interest but generally I am not a Forum type.  I go off and learn by myself.  While some post their "Lessons learned" on relationships,marriage and Thai girl woes but the problem is that everybody is so different so there really is nothing to be learned but rather a "Hmmmm" and move on.

You know what I think? I think you ought to be on your blankety-blank knees in gratitude that people are willing to share their insights with others.

 

P.S. You contradict yourself constantly which is quite annoying.

[JAFO]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

You know what I think? I think you ought to be on your blankety-blank knees in gratitude that people are willing to share their insights with others.

 

P.S. You contradict yourself constantly which is quite annoying.

And exactly why in the world would/should anyone get on their knees in gratitude for what people post on this site?. Other than some info on cargo containers some 3 years ago(which most I had figured out anyway) I have used  no information from this site to make any decision. But then again I make my own decisions and live with those consequences. 

 

If i listened to the information on this site and acted on it I would be untrusting, neurotic wreck, who would have never built a house, hated my inlaws and believed every Thai girl is a hooker trying to scam men. 

 

Please feel free to use the advice posted, but I will pass.  :)

[Gecko123]

30 minutes ago, JAFO said:

And exactly why in the world would/should anyone get on their knees in gratitude for what people post on this site?. Other than some info on cargo containers some 3 years ago(which most I had figured out anyway) I have used  no information from this site to make any decision. But then again I make my own decisions and live with those consequences. 

 

If i listened to the information on this site and acted on it I would be untrusting, neurotic wreck, who would have never built a house, hated my inlaws and believed every Thai girl is a hooker trying to scam men. 

 

Please feel free to use the advice posted, but I will pass.  :)

Well according to my calculations you've posted .5659 posts per day over the last 2405 days. Which is not much less than the .6412 posts per day I have made over the past 1310 days. So to act like you're a once in a blue moon poster is nonsense. If what you're saying is after all the time you've spent on these forums is get some info on cargo containers, all I gotta say is holy **** what a colossal waste of time this has been for you! Not only have I gotten a lot out of the forum, I think I have contributed substantially which has made my participation more than worthwhile. Feel kind of sorry for you, to tell the truth.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Gecko123

[watcharacters]

On 2/22/2018 at 7:16 PM, jak2002003 said:

The part about farangs making up stories and lies about their lives is spot on.  I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand.

 

They seem to have a need to show off in order to feel accepted in the group, where all the other guys have similar stories.. and each one tries to sound more successful than the last... with the result that the stores change and get more ridiculous over time.. which can be quiet funny.  

 

But now, when I meet a farang and he starts telling me how rich he is and how he had been working like James bond for the queen.. or met aliens in the Whitehouse.. I just make me excuses and leave.

 

 

 

 

And even when  I've told guys their story smacks of bullshit, they seem to never even miss a beat. 

Thailand must just call out to all these talented and gifted individuals.    

 

"The part about falangs making up stories and lies about their lives is spot on.  I had never met some many hugely successful business men, record breakers, mountain climbers and millionaires before I came to Thailand."

[JAFO]

52 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Well according to my calculations you've posted .5659 posts per day over the last 2405 days. Which is not much less than the .6412 posts per day I have made over the past 1310 days. So to act like you're a once in a blue moon poster is nonsense. If what you're saying is after all the time you've spent on these forums is get some info on cargo containers, all I gotta say is holy **** what a colossal waste of time this has been for you! Not only have I gotten a lot out of the forum, I think I have contributed substantially which has made my participation more than worthwhile. Feel kind of sorry for you, to tell the truth.

Well good luck and whatever you do, don't feel sorry for me as I am doing quite well.  And honesty  if I never visited this site again it would have zero impact on me. I drop by for fun when time permits. I enjoy the motorcycle section and occasionally joining in on the fray on some topics until they derail.

 

I hope you figure out why Foreigners fail here.  :)

[Dap]

On 2/24/2018 at 8:29 PM, pearciderman said:

 

I expect journalists to be perfect, and he is not.

Could be your expectations are a mite too high. I've never heard of any perfect humans  

[greenchair]

I wish the powers and charity beggar organisations would refer to this chart when raving on about how poor and destitute many thais are. In most cases the poorest of poor in fact have all of these needs met. 

Though most rich and poor are sadly lacking in the self fulfillment through nobody else's fault but their own. 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, 473geo said:

I started and got along way into detailed analysis, then I just thought, life is good for me!

 

I concluded that maybe I have just been lucky in life, or maybe I am different, if only because I carry the ability to ride occasional waves of adversity with no more than a backward glance, then move on......

 

Anyway good luck guys, I am happy with my 'lot', long may my plans with my wife and children continue to bear the fruits for a wonderful future.

Yes, you are a lucky guy. I had an interesting life, but only because I didn't let the bastards stop me doing so. Sadly at the end, I picked a person with an evil family to marry, and it's a sad way to go out. I'd have preferred a happier ending, but I suppose we all do.

Small comfort, but at least I don't have to feel guilty about doing bad things to other people, like many have to face up to as they near the end of their life.

Happy trails.

[Tapster]

@Gecko123

 

I'm responding in dysfunctional blue again!

 

Socialization as farang-farang couple with other foreigners in Thailand:

 

You've put a lot of work into this. It's turned into the best exploration of the expat psyche in Thailand, that I've read.

Maybe there's an honorary doctorate in it for us in Xeno-sociology, from Chulalongkorn University!

 

I think being a Western couple retiring in Thailand presents two big challenges. While there are many foreign couples in Bangkok and other urban centers, many are here on temporary or semi-temporary assignment and almost all of them are younger than retirement age for obvious reasons. So due to their semi-temporary work status and their younger age, working age foreign couples aren't always a natural social fit for older retired couples.

 

Good point. So the two groups are going to be moving in different circles, and as you go on to say, also living in different areas, for the most part.

 

Foreign couple retirees seem to gravitate to Chiang Mai, Bangkok and seaside destinations like Hua Hin, Phuket, Koh Samui, and Koh Chang. The problem for a foreign retiree couple is that there are also many foreign men who are attracted to these same destinations who have Thai wives or girl friends considerably younger than the foreign spouse. Presumably most foreign couples who move here would understand this dynamic before moving here. But if the foreign wife, or possibly both she and her husband, don't share a liberal attitude towards this, social tensions can arise. If the foreign couple is giving dagger eyes to every guy with a young Thai woman on his arm they pass on the street, they are likely going to be socially ostracized in turn. Even if the couple comes across as open-minded and non-judgmental, some foreign men with younger Thai wives automatically assume that a Western woman is going to be judgmental even if she's not.

 

I'm with you at the beginning of the last paragraph there, but you lost me at "liberal attitude"...................not because I don't have one, but because I don't see the dynamic at all, as you have described it in the second half of the paragraph.  

Our experience has never involved social tensions, daggers or ostracisation. However, I can't comment on foreign men with younger Thai wives, possibly assuming that my wife might be judgmental. We haven't ever sensed anything like that though.

 

The dynamic has very simply been that a group of 'Western' men with Thai wives/partners act like a group of Western men who are drinking on their own. It is rare that the Thai partners are brought fully into the conversation and often there ends up being a group of Thai women talking together, and a group of Western men having a few beers together. The role of a Western woman in this is fraught. Does she try to join the Thai women or does she stay with the guys. In the first case her lack of Thai and their lack of English usually make for an interesting exchange but nothing to base a friendship on. In the second case, she's obviously not 'one of the lads' so often feels like a fifth wheel.

 

Not all events end up polarised like this but it's common. 

 

In small groups, let's say just two couples, there's a better chance for everyone to have equal input. Still, the Western woman often doesn't get as much out of communicating with her opposite number as her Western husband does, communicating with his.

 

Just gauging from some of the posts I've read coming from posters living in Chiang Mai, I am left with the impression that there are enough older expat women there to form some sort of social network. You hear a lot of talk about volunteering, monthly brunches, and civic Rotary Club type activities. Personally, that lifestyle doesn't appeal to me in the least. If I wanted to make my social life centered around hanging out with other people from my home country, I'd just as soon stay home.

 

On the positive side, if you aspire to socially integrate into the Thai community, your foreign wife could be a golden asset in terms of making inroads into the Thai community. She could barter teaching Western cooking in exchange for Thai cooking lessons or tutor neighbor kids in English in exchange for someone teaching you and her Thai. Her newfound Thai cooking skills could be parlayed into inviting neighbors over to sample her culinary accomplishments. Her or your interest in Thai cooking and food ingredients could be a great way to interact with Thais at the market or in restaurants.

 

Good points all!
I don't want this to turn into me explaining why your suggestions have or haven't worked for us. I don't think that's especially helpful. Equally, I'm sure you're not specifically trying to give me pointers. The thing is that there are many ways in which one can integrate into a community. For the reasons we have discussed, and there are probably more we will discover, Thailand has unique stumbling blocks to expat integration, be it social, occupational or societal.

 

Getting back to your earlier comment about "still not feeling settled in" after months of living here, I think this is a trap many foreigners fall into. First time visitors to Thailand are often struck by how friendly and outgoing Thais are, right? They think 'Hey, I could get used to this. I'm not the most sociable guy on the planet and being around all these friendly people will help me come out of my shell. I'm such a novelty as a foreigner, everybody thinks I'm rich, all the women want to have my baby (I'm being a little bit facetious, but you get my drift), I'll be in seventh heaven. I'm calling the moving van today!'

 

Wahahaaaa! I can see how early expectations of life in Thailand can be whipped up so that reality is a bit of a downer for some. Early planning and research are key.

 

This initial friendliness from Thais makes some people think that not much effort is needed to befriend Thais. They think you can sit back like the Prince of Persia and people will flock to your doorstep. Some even have to find out the hard way that people will stop smiling if you don't return their smiles. People mistakenly believe that the only reason why their early-on contacts with Thais hadn't yet blossomed into close-knit Western-style friendships is because they were only visiting Thailand temporarily. They assume that once they've moved here, friendships will rapidly progress much in the same way relationships progress in the West. And when this doesn't happen, some people feel disappointed, frustrated, even deceived.

 

But the truth is that to forge meaningful relationships with Thais requires a considerable amount of effort. It is anything but an effortless process and requires considerable thoughtfulness about how to build trust and understanding, avoid faux pas, and to sort out acceptable cultural differences from unacceptable behaviors. It takes effort and a fair amount of skill to build cross-cultural relationships where ever you are. It isn't something learned overnight, but for me the process of developing these relationships is what being here is all about.

 

It certainly does take time to make new friends, and more time to make new Thai friends.

 

 

[Gecko123]

@Tapster

Thank you for your kind comments. I was worried that the reason you hadn't commented further was I  had said something off-putting.

 

I'm surprised that you aren't aware of any underlying tensions between foreign women and guys with younger Thai wives. A fair number of misogynistic comments directed at foreign women can be found on this forum. I have occasionally been on the receiving end of hostile looks from foreign women when in public with my wife as well. I think if you sound out the foreign men in your area on this issue it wouldn't take much to uncover feelings similar to what I have described.

 

You make a good point that the gulf between an older western woman and a younger Thai woman married to a Western man isn't just limited to age. Education and English/Thai language skills are additional challenges. Because of these challenges, my thought is that a foreign couple might want to consider making social integration exploration efforts more of an individual thing rather than something done all the time as a couple. My thinking is that it opens up more corridors. I do think it behooves you to be more attentive to your wife's social adjustement than you might otherwise be, because I think in many cases an older foreign woman might encounter more challenges in Thailand than they might have in another expat setting. There is an expat in Chiang Mai named @NancyL who might be able to offer some additional guidance to adjusting as a foreign couple in Thailand. I would be interested in hearing anything she has to say on this topic as well.

 

The hidden reality that transitioning from casual friendliness to more meaningful friendship with Thais takes more effort than anticipated is something that no amount of research or exploratory visits will prepare you for. I really hope pointing this out will help others understand the acculturation process better.

 

I have found that there isn't necessarily an endless range of ways on how to bond with Thais, at least not outside a major city. You have to find things of mutual interest: mostly food, cooking, farming, gardening, prices, children, the economy, current events, crime, politics, gossip, health and diet, pets, sports, wheels. For me, food has been a particularly sucessful way for bonding with Thais, which is why I mentioned it.

 

Over the years, more than just a few posters have commented that having low social needs has served them well here in Thailand, and I think that there is a lot of truth to this, particularly during inital adjustment. Maybe not Uni-bomberesque low social needs, but enjoying your own company can definitely at times be an asset over here. It takes time to decode what the social dynamic in both the expat and Thai community is. There can be initial confusion and frustration and not having high social needs can give you the patience needed to sort everything out. I have seen a number of guys with high social needs end up burning out. Actually, the underlying problem stems from not having a sense of purpose in their lives. They end up trying to fill their days by running around visiting people, which often involves a lot of social drinking. Not only does this catch up with them in terms of health, but the risk of getting involved in an alcohol related traffic accident skyrockets as well.

 

If some of my posts have been of value to you, I'm happy. Wish you and your wife the best going forward.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gecko123

[NancyL]

I see that my name is mentioned here, so I'll weigh in on expat life on Chiang Mai, especially for foreign-foreign couples and expat women on their own.  I'm very familiar with the many social activities for retired expats, but it's my understanding there are also many activities for the many younger expats who cycle through, male and female as digital nomads, NGO workers, teachers, etc.  

 

I don't know too many expat women who "look down" on older foreign man/younger Thai woman couples, at least not to the extent of giving them a second glance on the street.  I definitely hear that from time-to-time from newcomers and visiting women, but if a woman is going to live here she gets over it.  I think if guys are thinking they're being made to feel uncomfortable, it's largely their own insecurity.  Expat women don't retire here expecting to land a guy.  We joke about how if you want a guy in your life you have to have brought one with you.

 

Most women on their own develop good social lives.  Some of the activities are pretty much expat-only, but you'd be surprised at how many Thai women come to our ladies lunches.  These are educated Thai ladies who have lived overseas for decades and returned to Thailand for retirement.  Often they find that their families expect them to go back to being dutiful Thai daughters and they decide to "escape" by moving to to Chiang Mai where they can live a western lifestyle and check in on their family back in the village every week or so.  Village life bores them.

 

Someone mentioned Rotary club activities.  This is an excellent way to get to know Thai people.  There are 14 Rotary clubs in Chiang Mai, one of which is English speaking, the others Thai-speaking, with members from the business, gov't and academic communities.  In other word, professional, successful Thai people.  The Rotary clubs do service projects together, so as a member of the English-speaking Rotary club, we're able to do service projects with the Thai Rotary clubs and make friends within those clubs.  We've gone on overseas trips, weekend trips within Thailand, been invited to meals in the homes of Thai Rotary members, etc.  Gone into Burma and Laos with Thai Rotary groups for day trips to where we were waved over the border with no one looking at passports.  It's been our avenue to feel like we're part of the Thai community here, where we're respected for the community service we do, not for our money.  Actually, many of the Thai Rotary members have W-A-Y more money than we do.  

 

Rotary is very popular throughout Thailand with clubs in every little town.  Those who are bored and unfulfilled should check out their local clubs.  Many would welcome foreign members.  Until four years ago, there wasn't an English-speaking club in Chiang Mai, but many clubs had English-speaking members who were welcome members of the Thai clubs.  Yes, the foreign members spoke some Thai, but there usually is a Thai member who speaks enough English to take the foreigner under his/her wing to help make the foreigner welcome.  

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:31 PM, Tapster said:

The dynamic has very simply been that a group of 'Western' men with Thai wives/partners act like a group of Western men who are drinking on their own. It is rare that the Thai partners are brought fully into the conversation and often there ends up being a group of Thai women talking together, and a group of Western men having a few beers together. The role of a Western woman in this is fraught. Does she try to join the Thai women or does she stay with the guys. In the first case her lack of Thai and their lack of English usually make for an interesting exchange but nothing to base a friendship on. In the second case, she's obviously not 'one of the lads' so often feels like a fifth wheel.

Interesting on many levels.

I don't think it is just farang men with Thai wives that split into men and women groups- a universal response, IMO.

However, I don't know why a group of male friends would want women they don't know or care about trying to join in. 

Also, Thai women would have nothing in common with a group of farang men, IMO. I never found Thai women's conversation to be of interest as I'm not excessively interested in food.

A western woman in the anticipated situation of being the only western woman would be advised to do what I did when my wife went out socialising and do something else. She probably, even if she speaks conversational Thai, has nothing in common with them other than genitalia, and no group of men wishing to talk about "guy stuff" wants a solo female ( unless they all know her well and she is able to speak "guy talk" ) cramping the conversation.

I guess I was lucky back home when I was younger and I fell in with a group of men and women that had a lot in common, and were able to all socialise together, but they all grew up together, and I was fortunate in being invited into the group.

I can't imagine I'd find any such equivalent in LOS.

 

Frankly, I was quite at ease with not going out with my wife to her social functions, which invariably involved large amounts of alcohol, and music played far too loudly. As for a group of western men, while I would not reject the opportunity to join a group of like minded males, I have no desire to frequent expats clubs, though I did try, just in case. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:01 AM, Gecko123 said:

I'm surprised that you aren't aware of any underlying tensions between foreign women and guys with younger Thai wives.

That puts me in mind of the time I went on a tour to Kanchanaburi with my very much older than she looked Thai GF ( mother of 2 ), and had to put up with daggers coming at me from a pair of middle aged Australian women on the bus.

At the end they made a great show of saying goodbye to every other ( western ) person on the tour but deliberately ignoring me.

There was a time in my life I might have felt embarrassed by their obvious disapproval, but by then I just had to control my internal mirth at them.

 

BTW, it was 20 years ago, so I wasn't even that much older that her.

Edited February 28, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Tapster]

@Gecko123

 

Thank you for your input. You put a lot of thought and effort into your posts.

 

@ Everyone

 

It has been a mostly useful and positive thread. Not many people suggesting that we ought to return to our home countries if we're not completely happy.

Yay for Thai Visa! 

 

The discussion has successfully identified some reasons for expats failing, or at least struggling with integrating here, particularly some of the underlying reasons which may not be apparent to a newcomer. Maybe this thread should be a sticky for prospective expats!

 

Good luck to all. Keep smiling!

 

 

 

 

 

[Gecko123]

On 2/25/2018 at 11:44 AM, Gecko123 said:

This initial friendliness from Thais makes some people think that not much effort is needed to befriend Thais. They think you can sit back like the Prince of Persia and people will flock to your doorstep. Some even have to find out the hard way that people will stop smiling if you don't return their smiles. People mistakenly believe that the only reason why their early-on contacts with Thais hadn't yet blossomed into close-knit Western-style friendships is because they were only visiting Thailand temporarily. They assume that once they've moved here, friendships will rapidly progress much in the same way relationships progress in the West. And when this doesn't happen, some people feel disappointed, frustrated, even deceived.

 

But the truth is that to forge meaningful relationships with Thais requires a considerable amount of effort. It is anything but an effortless process and requires considerable thoughtfulness about how to build trust and understanding, avoid faux pas, and to sort out acceptable cultural differences from unacceptable behaviors. It takes effort and a fair amount of skill to build cross-cultural relationships where ever you are. It isn't something learned overnight, but for me the process of developing these relationships is what being here is all about.

 

@Tapster

In an earlier post you kind of summarized what I was saying here as:

On 2/26/2018 at 10:31 PM, Tapster said:

It certainly does take time to make new friends, and more time to make new Thai friends.

If that's all I was saying, I could rightfully be accused of being captain obvious. The point I was trying to make is that while Thais generally try to be affable and pleasant in day to day interactions, moving on to more solid terms of friendship takes time and effort.

 

The vast majority of interactions between Thais and tourists are transactional interactions of one kind or another, and of course there's an added financial incentive for the Thai vendor to be as friendly as possible to the tourist. Because of this outward friendliness many people presume that that friendships with Thais can easily bloom, even without much effort on the part of the expat. And when that doesn't happen as smoothly as expected, you start hearing things like 'they only like me for my money', 'they don't really like foreigners', 'their smile is fake" from foreigners.

 

It took a long while for me to realize that going from a 'small talk' relationship to a more established friendship was going to take more time and effort than I first realized. It's kind of like meeting a girl who acts like she really likes you, laughs at all your jokes, looks all dreamy eyed at you, and then starts playing hard to get. It's confusing and disorientating, and you can feel like you're getting jacked around. The other thing that's helpful to remember is that many Thai people, no matter whether they grew up in a small village, town or big city have known the same circle of classmates, friends, family, and town folks their entire life. So "knowing" somebody really well means knowing them for decades. So anybody who they've known in terms of months or a few years is going to remain an unknown entity for a while.

 

[Gecko123]

I'd just like to let anybody who's interested know that in identifying potential pitfalls to adjusting here it wasn't in the least to be negative or to dwell on the negative. It was to help others recognize that others are experiencing the same thing, and to help newcomers or prospective expats better understand what the adjustment process here is like.

 

By candidly discussing some of the dynamics in the expat community which inhibit social bonding, my purpose wasn't to sow distrust, but done in the hopes of opening up what I feel is a much needed dialogue about how the expat community can become more socially cohesive.

 

While I have had my share of ups and downs, I'm happy and proud of how things have turned out here. I think I have successfully adjusted to living in Thailand. I'm just out here offering help to others who might possibly benefit from what I've learned during my journey.

[Gecko123]

technical snafu

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:24 PM, Gecko123 said:

I think I have successfully adjusted to living in Thailand.

I HAVE successfully adjusted to living in Thailand, though I have not a single Thai "friend".

Of course I'm not saying that it's not something good if one does have Thai friends, but I am saying it's not necessary to have such to enjoy what LOS has to offer, and have a perfectly happy life.