UK ideas on post-Brexit ties are "pure illusion", EU's Tusk says

[JTXR]

As an American who has always liked and admired the UK, I'm truly sad that a fantasy sold to the public by irresponsible, dishonest politicians resulted in a vote that will inevitably result in the UK sliding downward into a second-rate backwater.  The young know they've been f - - - ed by their elders, and they know there's nothing they can do about it. 

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, JTXR said:

As an American who has always liked and admired the UK, I'm truly sad that a fantasy sold to the public by irresponsible, dishonest politicians resulted in a vote that will inevitably result in the UK sliding downward into a second-rate backwater.  The young know they've been f - - - ed by their elders, and they know there's nothing they can do about it. 

 

 

I am not sure whether to admire, or mock, the certainty with which you assert Armageddon for the UK. A remarkable talent.

 

Perhaps you could now go and advise your home country because they are in deeper <deleted> than the UK could ever be in.

 

 

[Sir Dude]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I am not sure whether to admire, or mock, the certainty with which you assert Armageddon for the UK. A remarkable talent.

 

Perhaps you could now go and advise your home country because they are in deeper <deleted> than the UK could ever be in.

 

 

Yes...I think US posters have much to consider about their own country first before getting sanctimonious and judgmental about others at the moment, regardless of whether you're republican or democrat. US society is about as polarised as it can be and has plenty of problems to consider or fix (like most other countries too). 

[JAG]

On 24/02/2018 at 11:03 AM, gamini said:

You brexit people are always harping on about the majority supporting it. But you never seem to accept the fact that only 17 million people voted for Brexit it out of an electorate of 46 million. you also don't seem to accept the fact that those who didn't vote, having seen the mess that the UK is in now would probably have voted against it. It would appear to me that supporters of brexit are a very scared of another referendum which will probably be totally in favour of remaining.

But they didn't - couldn't be bothered- to vote.

They could have, should have, but didn't. I made the effort ( from here ) they didn't.

[JTXR]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

I am not sure whether to admire, or mock, the certainty with which you assert Armageddon for the UK. A remarkable talent.

 

Perhaps you could now go and advise your home country because they are in deeper <deleted> than the UK could ever be in.

Oh, not Armageddon, certainly,  just a slide into a respectable but threadbare mediocrity.  The sheer mendacity of the pro-Brexit campaign foreshadowed it, and the world-class confusion displayed by the government after the vote can only confirm it.

Well, I regularly send advice to the dolt in the White House, but for some reason he appears resistant to its wisdom.  And yes, we seem to be in something of a race to the bottom.  See you there. 

[citybiker]

As an American who has always liked and admired the UK, I'm truly sad that a fantasy sold to the public by irresponsible, dishonest politicians resulted in a vote that will inevitably result in the UK sliding downward into a second-rate backwater.  The young know they've been f - - - ed by their elders, and they know there's nothing they can do about it. 

Dishonest politicians are global.

IIRC the young also voted, those that actually bothered, so invalid to blame just the elders.

Don’t know why your sad, the majority see an opportunity, democracy in progress and EU will continue in whatever form it takes, less it’s 2nd highest net contributor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, JTXR said:

As an American who has always liked and admired the UK, I'm truly sad that a fantasy sold to the public by irresponsible, dishonest politicians resulted in a vote that will inevitably result in the UK sliding downward into a second-rate backwater.  The young know they've been f - - - ed by their elders, and they know there's nothing they can do about it. 

Such perspicacity from one of our American cousins. 

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Oh, not Armageddon, certainly,  just a slide into a respectable but threadbare mediocrity.  The sheer mendacity of the pro-Brexit campaign foreshadowed it, and the world-class confusion displayed by the government after the vote can only confirm it.

Well, I regularly send advice to the dolt in the White House, but for some reason he appears resistant to its wisdom.  And yes, we seem to be in something of a race to the bottom.  See you there. 

Well said, sir!

[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Oh, not Armageddon, certainly,  just a slide into a respectable but threadbare mediocrity.  The sheer mendacity of the pro-Brexit campaign foreshadowed it, and the world-class confusion displayed by the government after the vote can only confirm it.

Well, I regularly send advice to the dolt in the White House, but for some reason he appears resistant to its wisdom.  And yes, we seem to be in something of a race to the bottom.  See you there. 

 

 

I fail to understand  why the dolts don’t listen to you.... ?

 

Personally, I will take mediocrity (although I am certain the the UK will perform much better than that) against remaining wedded to the EU.

 

Ironically, we were mediocre when joining the EU, so things will h@ve gone full circle.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I fail to understand  why the dolts don’t listen to you.... ?

 

Personally, I will take mediocrity (although I am certain the the UK will perform much better than that) against remaining wedded to the EU.

 

Ironically, we were mediocre when joining the EU, so things will h@ve gone full circle.

Some of us have loftier ideals, hopes and ambitions. If you still don't understand the upsides of the EU it is pointless explaining them to you now. I'll take upper quartile over mediocrity in all the key indices. We can still do it; don't be so fearful of our German friends ?

[JTXR]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

Ironically, we were mediocre when joining the EU, so things will h@ve gone full circle.

Well, ok, so long as you don't have unreasonable expectations.  ;-)

With the Groper-In-Chief at the helm, we in the States may soon need telescopes pointing up to even see mediocrity. 

[sirineou]

I am American, and I realise that I have an uneducated on the subject opinion. I read these thread to learn something new and get a feel on the prevailing sentiment from those who live it and know more about it.

 I Usually read  the Op, first couple of pages , and last page of these Threads, by the end it usually deteriorates to arguing a vaguely related point someone made and some others agree or disagree with  such as the political leaning of the BBC (who's documentaries  as an American  enjoy very much).

My Opinion is that it was a monumental mistake to have such an important decision made on a simple majority vote!! Neither side has a clear and unequivocal mandate.

I am afraid you all have shot yourselves on the foot.,

Puting aside the pros, and cons of the subject,From reading these threads, and from common sense,  regardless of what happens  there  will  be a significant segment of British society that would feel  wronged . 

Not a good place to be.

IMO a new vote with a supermajority (the percentages can be worked among you) is necessary,  so that there is a resolution that most people support, Otherwise I am afraid this will not end with a Brexit, but expect years of  turmoil after that.  

I think those who want to leave are thinking that , let's leave now and hopefully, the sky will not fall, in fact things will  improve, and those who did not want to leave will change their minds.

IMO that's a very risky gamble to take with an issues as important as this. 

[janclaes47]

On 24/02/2018 at 12:15 PM, billd766 said:

You Remainers are always harping on about only 17 million people voted for Brexit, conveniently ignoring the fact that only 15 odd million wanted to stay.

 

17 to 15 million would mean the brexiters had about 15% more votes over the remainers.

 

I don't recall that.

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

 

17 to 15 million would mean the brexiters had about 15% more votes over the remainers.

 

I don't recall that.

Actually, it would mean that the Brexiters had slightly more than a 6 point margin. As I recall, it was a 4 point margin.

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Some of us have loftier ideals, hopes and ambitions. If you still don't understand the upsides of the EU it is pointless explaining them to you now. I'll take upper quartile over mediocrity in all the key indices. We can still do it; don't be so fearful of our German friends ?

Our German friends? Perhaps it has escaped your notice – Germany has no government. The country that was a model of EU stability, in which the political power and the economic muscle of the whole ball of wax was thought to reside, has succumbed to electoral paralysis.

What is more, the German domination of Europe’s economic policy – which broke the back of an inconsequential member country like Greece – will now come up against a new and much more substantial threat. Italy, a founder EU state and, for all its problems, still a major economy, is about to hold national elections that are almost certainly going to result in great gains for anti-Brussels parties under a coalition led by – don’t laugh – Silvio Berlusconi, who cannot legally hold office.

In Germany and other states there is  anxiety over uncontrolled migration; dismay over young people without prospects; bitterness towards Europe and its common currency and - encompassing all these grievances - fury and frustration at EU's political establishment for failing to act.

Merkel has turned an immigrant drama into a crisis(remember she said they would take 1 million a year over 5 years) It then becomes an EU issue. The quota system arrives(without consultation) Those that don't agree are ridiculed and threatened. When this fails they turn off all sources of funds and Mutti has the EU paying for Germany's future work force. What a clever lady! The biggest human trafficking story since the slave trade.

Our friends? Think on sunshine. I have no interest in your view on the upside of the EU which you continue to bang on about but you continue to fail to address the downside! I'm holding my breath!

Has your Fatherland passport arrived yet?

[Air Smiles]

13 minutes ago, aright said:

Our German friends? Perhaps it has escaped your notice – Germany has no government. The country that was a model of EU stability, in which the political power and the economic muscle of the whole ball of wax was thought to reside, has succumbed to electoral paralysis.

 

Merkel is still in charge and a coalition has already been agreed, to say "Germany has no government" is complete fantasy.

 

Has it escaped your notice the last 2 elections in the UK were hung parliaments?  In the last one the Tories had to pay a £1.5Bn bribe to a group of backward bigots just to stay in control ...no doubt the EU was to blame for that as well

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, aright said:

Our German friends? Perhaps it has escaped your notice – Germany has no government. The country that was a model of EU stability, in which the political power and the economic muscle of the whole ball of wax was thought to reside, has succumbed to electoral paralysis.

What is more, the German domination of Europe’s economic policy – which broke the back of an inconsequential member country like Greece – will now come up against a new and much more substantial threat. Italy, a founder EU state and, for all its problems, still a major economy, is about to hold national elections that are almost certainly going to result in great gains for anti-Brussels parties under a coalition led by – don’t laugh – Silvio Berlusconi, who cannot legally hold office.

In Germany and other states there is  anxiety over uncontrolled migration; dismay over young people without prospects; bitterness towards Europe and its common currency and - encompassing all these grievances - fury and frustration at EU's political establishment for failing to act.

Merkel has turned an immigrant drama into a crisis(remember she said they would take 1 million a year over 5 years) It then becomes an EU issue. The quota system arrives(without consultation) Those that don't agree are ridiculed and threatened. When this fails they turn off all sources of funds and Mutti has the EU paying for Germany's future work force. What a clever lady! The biggest human trafficking story since the slave trade.

Our friends? Think on sunshine. I have no interest in your view on the upside of the EU which you continue to bang on about but you continue to fail to address the downside! I'm holding my breath!

Has your Fatherland passport arrived yet?

Yes Germany is in a terrible situation. Their young people are in dismay at the prospect of attending a free university or enjoying a superb technical education thanks to cooperation between labor and inudstry.. Their economy is going gangbusters. Unemployment there is miniscule. If that's instability, the UK could use a whole lot more of it.

And I don't know where you've been lately, Moonbeam, but Berlusconi has converted into an strong supporter of the EU.

And maybe you didn't mention France because Le Pen's party actually threw out the leader who supported exiting the Eurozone.

In fact, the EU economy is now outperforming the UK's.

Soon you'll have a blue passport . Just dwell on its inperial associations and ignore the diminished clout that stands behind it.

 

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, JTXR said:

As an American who has always liked and admired the UK, I'm truly sad that a fantasy sold to the public by irresponsible, dishonest politicians resulted in a vote that will inevitably result in the UK sliding downward into a second-rate backwater.  The young know they've been f - - - ed by their elders, and they know there's nothing they can do about it. 

Another non Brit joining this thread,to tell us we’ve made a mistake. Thankfully the Brits know better.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.

 

 

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, Air Smiles said:

 

That article is about The UK financial services industry not the UK economy, also it's completely unrelated to the previous claim made by soibiker: 'credible economists admitted many of the reports are flawed & are being bought to question'.

So UK financial services, quoted in the article as the UK's biggest export sector, employing 1 million people, paying 12% of all UK taxes, is nothing to do with the UK economy? Just asking.

[Air Smiles]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So UK financial services, quoted in the article as the UK's biggest export sector, employing 1 million people, paying 12% of all UK taxes, is nothing to do with the UK economy? Just asking.

 

Where did I say UK financial services is nothing to do with the UK economy?

 

If you rewind to the start of the conversation we were discussing the UK economy as a whole not some small component part.

 

Small component part  !=  the whole.

 

Let me know if you need any further help understanding the difference between the two.

 

 

[aright]

7 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes Germany is in a terrible situation. Their young people are in dismay at the prospect of attending a free university or enjoying a superb technical education thanks to cooperation between labor and inudstry.. Their economy is going gangbusters. Unemployment there is miniscule. If that's instability, the UK could use a whole lot more of it.

And I don't know where you've been lately, Moonbeam, but Berlusconi has converted into an strong supporter of the EU.

And maybe you didn't mention France because Le Pen's party actually threw out the leader who supported exiting the Eurozone.

In fact, the EU economy is now outperforming the UK's.

Soon you'll have a blue passport . Just dwell on its inperial associations and ignore the diminished clout that stands behind it.

 

A free university is a prerequisite to producing better qualified people is it? Tell that to Oxford Cambridge IC Harvard and Yale. In the 2017 world university rankings the UK had 3 in the top 10 Germany had 0 . Germanys highest ranking was 34. The UK had 7 universities ranked higher than their best.

As far as Mr Berlusconi is concerned I am talking about the man not his politics, although I think he would say anything to get himself front line again.

I am happy to talk about France if you want although I suspect my take is different from yours.

Mr Macron is obviously a strong centrist who obviously is keen to take forward the European Project (as long as France determines the way forward of course.) On his recent visit to the UK he said he was happy to make bi-lateral agreements with the UK which obviously ignores Commission Negotiators who say any agreements between two countries must be agreed with all 27 member states. It would appear France feels it can cherry pick its deals but us bad boys can‘t. There is a lot more to say about France but off-topic.

As far as the UK economy is concerned it looks bad!

UK’s dominant services industry has surged in the last three months with profits rising at the fastest pace since November 2015, according to a new CBI survey.

Meanwhile, confidence among businesses and professional services is growing with a further pick-up anticipated in the coming three months.“The OBR may have turned negative on productivity at just the wrong time, as the latest two quarters of higher productivity growth are the strongest since 2008, so they might have to backtrack on that as well.”

 

So who has the real power now? Who, in fact, are we – from our position of notorious weakness – negotiating with? Is it a paralysed Germany, or a divided collection of EU heads of government presiding over resentful and rebellious electorates, or an EU Commission happy to step into the vacuum and fulfil its historic destiny as a benign oligarchy rescuing Europe from the unruly mob?

Perhaps you could attempt an answer or are you and Grouse etc  going to continue to tell us how great the EU(Germany) is while ignoring  their serious escalating problems while you continue to relish the UK's problems.

I look forward to using my blue passport as part of an independent nation operating in a global economy. Has your Fatherland passport been issued yet?

[Grouse]

11 hours ago, aright said:

Our German friends? Perhaps it has escaped your notice – Germany has no government. The country that was a model of EU stability, in which the political power and the economic muscle of the whole ball of wax was thought to reside, has succumbed to electoral paralysis.

What is more, the German domination of Europe’s economic policy – which broke the back of an inconsequential member country like Greece – will now come up against a new and much more substantial threat. Italy, a founder EU state and, for all its problems, still a major economy, is about to hold national elections that are almost certainly going to result in great gains for anti-Brussels parties under a coalition led by – don’t laugh – Silvio Berlusconi, who cannot legally hold office.

In Germany and other states there is  anxiety over uncontrolled migration; dismay over young people without prospects; bitterness towards Europe and its common currency and - encompassing all these grievances - fury and frustration at EU's political establishment for failing to act.

Merkel has turned an immigrant drama into a crisis(remember she said they would take 1 million a year over 5 years) It then becomes an EU issue. The quota system arrives(without consultation) Those that don't agree are ridiculed and threatened. When this fails they turn off all sources of funds and Mutti has the EU paying for Germany's future work force. What a clever lady! The biggest human trafficking story since the slave trade.

Our friends? Think on sunshine. I have no interest in your view on the upside of the EU which you continue to bang on about but you continue to fail to address the downside! I'm holding my breath!

Has your Fatherland passport arrived yet?

No, but I did gain Danish citizenship.

 

Have you noticed how the German economic machine keeps rolling onwards? I think the benefits of coalition government are lost on you

 

You're still predicting the imminent collapse of the EU? It's proving to be a long wait ?

 

In all, I sense a deep bitterness. Don't worry, it will turn out just fine ?

[aright]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

No, but I did gain Danish citizenship.

 

Have you noticed how the German economic machine keeps rolling onwards? I think the benefits of coalition government are lost on you

 

You're still predicting the imminent collapse of the EU? It's proving to be a long wait ?

 

In all, I sense a deep bitterness. Don't worry, it will turn out just fine ?

I just new you were going to dismiss, without argument, Germany's and the EU's problems because in you, I sense a deep disillusionment and a "God I wish he hadn't asked that question" attitude.

In fairness, I accept if you don't have the answers, its difficult and pointless discussing  the questions so best stay stum. I wonder if that's German?

Perhaps Mutti could explain to you the benefits of coalition government starting with how long they take to form and what you have to give away to get your own?????? way

When you leave Thailand what part of Denmark are you moving to Herre disillusionerede Grouse?

Whatever part I wish you and Anastaja the best of British luck.

 

[ilostmypassword]

8 hours ago, aright said:

A free university is a prerequisite to producing better qualified people is it? Tell that to Oxford Cambridge IC Harvard and Yale. In the 2017 world university rankings the UK had 3 in the top 10 Germany had 0 . Germanys highest ranking was 34. The UK had 7 universities ranked higher than their best.

As far as Mr Berlusconi is concerned I am talking about the man not his politics, although I think he would say anything to get himself front line again.

I am happy to talk about France if you want although I suspect my take is different from yours.

Mr Macron is obviously a strong centrist who obviously is keen to take forward the European Project (as long as France determines the way forward of course.) On his recent visit to the UK he said he was happy to make bi-lateral agreements with the UK which obviously ignores Commission Negotiators who say any agreements between two countries must be agreed with all 27 member states. It would appear France feels it can cherry pick its deals but us bad boys can‘t. There is a lot more to say about France but off-topic.

As far as the UK economy is concerned it looks bad!

UK’s dominant services industry has surged in the last three months with profits rising at the fastest pace since November 2015, according to a new CBI survey.

Meanwhile, confidence among businesses and professional services is growing with a further pick-up anticipated in the coming three months.“The OBR may have turned negative on productivity at just the wrong time, as the latest two quarters of higher productivity growth are the strongest since 2008, so they might have to backtrack on that as well.”

 

So who has the real power now? Who, in fact, are we – from our position of notorious weakness – negotiating with? Is it a paralysed Germany, or a divided collection of EU heads of government presiding over resentful and rebellious electorates, or an EU Commission happy to step into the vacuum and fulfil its historic destiny as a benign oligarchy rescuing Europe from the unruly mob?

Perhaps you could attempt an answer or are you and Grouse etc  going to continue to tell us how great the EU(Germany) is while ignoring  their serious escalating problems while you continue to relish the UK's problems.

I look forward to using my blue passport as part of an independent nation operating in a global economy. Has your Fatherland passport been issued yet?

Wow! Oxford and Harvard and Yale and Cambridge not only are top rated, but they actually manage to accept a significant portion of the would be undergraduates? Enough so that they characterize the system? These Universities are precisely what you would expect in an educational system that isn't constructed with the benefit of the whole population in mind but only towards a the financial and/or intellectual elite. How well does the UK educational system serve Britons on the whole compared to how well the German educational system does?

I noticed you haven't even addressed the question of technical education for people who don't want to go on to university. How does the UK compare to Germany in that regard? You know as well as I that the UK system, if you want to dignify it as such, is absolutely wretched. Wretched for precisely the people that Teresa May now claims to cherish.

I believe the bilateralism you are referring to is the Le Touquet agreement in which May essentially capitulated to Macron's demands. I didn't see the EU raising a fuss about it. Did you?

As for the economic news...cherry picking much? How has the entire UK economy performed compared to the rest of the EU's? And Brexit hasn't happened yet.

And give up on the paralyzed Germany nonsense. This is just like the same nonsense that Brexiters were saying until recently about France and the Netherlands. That their electorates were about to install anti EU governments.  Remember that? How did that turn out? The economies in the EU are in an upward swing now. EU discontent is rapidly subsiding.

As for "being an independent nation operating in a global economy"...it is a universally observed economic phenomenon that trade naturally increases between 2 areas, the closer they are. And unless I'm mistaken and La Manche has suddenly widened by several thousand kilometers, the closest economically significant geographic areas to the UK is the EU. But, what does that matter? After all, Brexit is magic!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, aright said:

I just new you were going to dismiss, without argument, Germany's and the EU's problems because in you, I sense a deep disillusionment and a "God I wish he hadn't asked that question" attitude.

In fairness, I accept if you don't have the answers, its difficult and pointless discussing  the questions so best stay stum. I wonder if that's German?

Perhaps Mutti could explain to you the benefits of coalition government starting with how long they take to form and what you have to give away to get your own?????? way

When you leave Thailand what part of Denmark are you moving to Herre disillusionerede Grouse?

Whatever part I wish you and Anastaja the best of British luck.

 

Ta' ska' du ha'!

 

Rungsted ?

 

I have never dismissed the problems that the EU faces. Including inadequate democracy and lack of flexibility.

 

MY opionion is that it is better to fix these problems from within rather than throwing everything away.

 

But then I am more European than American!

 

Take it easy!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, aright said:

When you leave Thailand what part of Denmark are you moving to Herre disillusionerede Grouse?

The beauty of EU is that nobody must speak Swedish, having a potato in their mouth. We all are allowed to locate to any country we wish to. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, aright said:

I just new you were going to dismiss, without argument, Germany's and the EU's problems because in you, I sense a deep disillusionment and a "God I wish he hadn't asked that question" attitude.

In fairness, I accept if you don't have the answers, its difficult and pointless discussing  the questions so best stay stum. I wonder if that's German?

Perhaps Mutti could explain to you the benefits of coalition government starting with how long they take to form and what you have to give away to get your own?????? way

When you leave Thailand what part of Denmark are you moving to Herre disillusionerede Grouse?

Whatever part I wish you and Anastaja the best of British luck.

 

What's the meaning of the phrase 'Keep schtum'?

Say nothing - especially in circumstances where saying the wrong thing may get you into trouble.

What's the origin of the phrase 'Keep schtum'?

This probably derives from the German word stumm meaning silent. The phrase keep schtum (variously spelled 'keep stumm', 'keep 'keep shtoom', 'keep schtum' etc.) is British and fairly recent. It has the sound of a Yiddish phrase but it is more likely that it originated in the UK criminal community. The earliest citation of it is in Frank Norman's, book Bang to rights: an account of prison life, 1958:

"I think it's much better to keep shtoom." 
"You can always shtoomup if any screws are earholeing."

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

What's the meaning of the phrase 'Keep schtum'?

Say nothing - especially in circumstances where saying the wrong thing may get you into trouble.

What's the origin of the phrase 'Keep schtum'?

This probably derives from the German word stumm meaning silent. The phrase keep schtum (variously spelled 'keep stumm', 'keep 'keep shtoom', 'keep schtum' etc.) is British and fairly recent. It has the sound of a Yiddish phrase but it is more likely that it originated in the UK criminal community. The earliest citation of it is in Frank Norman's, book Bang to rights: an account of prison life, 1958:

"I think it's much better to keep shtoom." 
"You can always shtoomup if any screws are earholeing."

Oxford Dictionary says it's Yiddish, from the German.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shtum

And there might possibly be some intersection of the Jewish community with the criminal community. Not all Jews grow up to be doctors.

[aright]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Wow! Oxford and Harvard and Yale and Cambridge not only are top rated, but they actually manage to accept a significant portion of the would be undergraduates? Enough so that they characterize the system? These Universities are precisely what you would expect in an educational system that isn't constructed with the benefit of the whole population in mind but only towards a the financial and/or intellectual elite. How well does the UK educational system serve Britons on the whole compared to how well the German educational system does?

I noticed you haven't even addressed the question of technical education for people who don't want to go on to university. How does the UK compare to Germany in that regard? You know as well as I that the UK system, if you want to dignify it as such, is absolutely wretched. Wretched for precisely the people that Teresa May now claims to cherish.

I believe the bilateralism you are referring to is the Le Touquet agreement in which May essentially capitulated to Macron's demands. I didn't see the EU raising a fuss about it. Did you?

As for the economic news...cherry picking much? How has the entire UK economy performed compared to the rest of the EU's? And Brexit hasn't happened yet.

And give up on the paralyzed Germany nonsense. This is just like the same nonsense that Brexiters were saying until recently about France and the Netherlands. That their electorates were about to install anti EU governments.  Remember that? How did that turn out? The economies in the EU are in an upward swing now. EU discontent is rapidly subsiding.

As for "being an independent nation operating in a global economy"...it is a universally observed economic phenomenon that trade naturally increases between 2 areas, the closer they are. And unless I'm mistaken and La Manche has suddenly widened by several thousand kilometers, the closest economically significant geographic areas to the UK is the EU. But, what does that matter? After all, Brexit is magic!

My word! All this hyperbole with no references. Perhaps you can explain the gravity theory of trade with everyone in the West (especially the USA and Iceland) who trades with China. Your universally  observed economic phenomenon is so last century. My businesses trade in the EU and the USA and my margins are greater in the USA than Europe.

As for the German education system ,its not rubbish by any means, but they buy more brains than they produce as does the USA I live in the UK and feel we have an educational system which serves the needs of any student who wants to maximise his intellectual and physical ambitions. Anyway you live in Thailand; that doesn't show any concern for your children's education if you have any. If you do have them you can send them to LOS's best University Mahidol  ranked 550 in the world or you can send them to central African University's which have higher rankings.It may have escaped your attention but at the last Elections in France, Netherlands and Germany there was a significant swing to extreme right wing voters. I suppose Catalonia and Corsica were minor misunderstandings were they.You might also want to look at problems in Poland and Hungary as well. Where is your evidence that these people are now happy, there were riots in Italy last week. I would wait for the results from the Italian elections before you answer that. As for a paralysed Germany, I would have thought by definition a country which hasn‘t had a government for going on 6 months is paralysed. Why are you in such denial?

Can I remind you of my question

So who has the real power now? Who, in fact, are we – from our position of notorious weakness – negotiating with? Is it a paralysed Germany, or a divided collection of EU heads of government presiding over resentful and rebellious electorates, or an EU Commission happy to step into the vacuum and fulfil its historic destiny as a benign oligarchy rescuing Europe from the unruly mob?

Perhaps you could attempt an answer............please