Two American women held in Thailand after allegedly caught with fake US dollars

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

That was to make a phone call to the Tourist police .

That is not related to Amykats claims , two different situations

think she extrapolated

sort of tongue in cheek

Have you topped up yet?

Edited March 11, 2018 by AGareth2
addition

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

think she extrapolated

sort of tongue in cheek

I do think that it was  deliberate deception by her .

I did offer to view documents in person, to verify their existence .

The offer was declined , citing personal safety fears .

She then later made the implication that she agreed to meet up, but I didnt show up , which isnt true .

   I made an offer, which was declined , now shes trying to turn that around and make it seem that she made an offer and I declined .

 

[Henrik Andersen]

5 minutes ago, amykat said:

I don't think anyone takes you seriously making all these demands as if you have some authority to make them.   Who are you?  Whoever you are, you are certainly biased against these people.  No serious person with a real case to defend would bother themselves with you. 

I take it serious too because this is a scam and if that's was me in this story I would defend myself to anyone there would listen and help me but in this case absolutely no information or prove from them  

[The manic]

On 2/27/2018 at 12:39 PM, lovelomsak said:

I  question why they both got arrested. Did both try to sell fake money. Why would they both need to sell the money? Sounds more likely to me they both had their own stash of fake money to sell.brought with them.

Accomplishes-Conspiracy

[amykat]

5 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said:

You 2 guys do you work together on this scam?? 

All your facts where are they 

Sorry you have still not show 1 little single fact 

And yes as another man said 

Russian sex teacher could show a picture of her in jail 

Why are there nothing to show on this 

Because there are nothing to show scam is the reason 

Well Henrik I have been a member of this forum for a long time and lived in CM for an even longer time and people here know who I am in real life.  Do you think these people are SO smart they came here before to find someone like me to shill for them in case the members of TV turned against them? They are going to have to divide that $10,000 up so many different ways now!!

 

But moving on ...I believe one of our members who was against them and thought it was a scam, called the police and confirmed the story, the arrest and everything. I think that has been proof enough for many people here. 

[amykat]

14 minutes ago, Henrik Andersen said:

I take it serious too because this is a scam and if that's was me in this story I would defend myself to anyone there would listen and help me but in this case absolutely no information or prove from them  

 

Well point one) What are YOU GUYS going to do to HELP THEM after they prove anything to you???

 

Answer ....Absolutely NOTHING!!!

 

Case closed!!

 

 

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

You said you didn't have any credit on your phone, though never got to hear why it couldn't be topped up.

I couldnt top my phone up at the time , because no one in my room sells any top up cards and I would have to wait until I went out to 7/11 to buy some .

[sanemax]

47 minutes ago, amykat said:

But moving on ...I believe one of our members who was against them and thought it was a scam, called the police and confirmed the story, the arrest and everything. I think that has been proof enough for many people here. 

That doesnt prove anything .

The Police do not give that info out to random callers

[Henrik Andersen]

2 hours ago, amykat said:

Well Henrik I have been a member of this forum for a long time and lived in CM for an even longer time and people here know who I am in real life.  Do you think these people are SO smart they came here before to find someone like me to shill for them in case the members of TV turned against them? They are going to have to divide that $10,000 up so many different ways now!!

 

But moving on ...I believe one of our members who was against them and thought it was a scam, called the police and confirmed the story, the arrest and everything. I think that has been proof enough for many people here. 

My wife called too and get this answer if you not related they will not answer or comment any stories so this man there comment his wife get the story it is very hard believe 

[amykat]

29 minutes ago, Henrik Andersen said:

My wife called too and get this answer if you not related they will not answer or comment any stories so this man there comment his wife get the story it is very hard believe 

 

Well that is probably true.  You can't call the embassy and get info either.   You can't call a hospital and just ask any questions you want about people in there can you?  Therefore we can know that getting denied info does not mean the situation does not exist.  However, Thai people are often lax about privacy issues so it doesn't surprise me that somebody was able to get this info when they called.  Maybe they were getting fed up with calls coming in ??

 

What is the worse case here ..that many people who know them are paying for this?  I doubt any strangers gave money. I doubt one person in Thailand is helping and many people here are making money from them. All of this money will go to Thailand where you live. Even if it is all fake, then they are partying it up here and spending it all on fun here!!  Airline tickets, hotels, drinking, buying souvenirs, food,  whatever.  So a bunch of people in the US are sending money to Thailand, what is new.  Does it bother you too much when bar girls do it to 5 men at the same time pretending they are living back home in the village?? 

 

But to be clear, I do not think that at ALL.

[amykat]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:55 AM, Paul Catton said:

Note to self:

How does one explain the difference between being anti-feminism (feminism being built on myth and half truths to what is now quite often considered a supremacist toxic movement) and being anti-female.

I am the former not the latter.

But, don't let the truth get in front of good rant.

 

Paul, I tried to apologize to you in the sense that I did not mean my comments specifically to you, I meant a general you. Then that got deleted later.  However ...

 

Saying you are not against females but against feminism, is like a Southerner saying he is not against blacks, as long as they keep picking his cotton. 

[Crash999]

On 3/8/2018 at 12:40 PM, Makara said:

Sanemax (and others) have tried to say that they believe the ladies have made up finding money, planting that statement on fb, pretending to be arrested in Thailand, only because they could start a gofundme to scam people out of their money. Just for one second, think about that insane speculation. Now maybe this could happen easily in Thailand--IDk--but what I do know is it is close to impossible for that to happen in this situation. And really, why would anyone put themselves through this kind of scrutiny? 

It’s not too hard to imagine why. For $150k people would put themselves under a lot of scrutiny, especially if they thought they would be portrayed as victims and be able to get away with it. People have done far worse things for far less benefit. 

 

There have been many previous cases in Thailand of accusations proven later to be false, insurance fraud, people who disappeared that later reappeared, etc. Even one case on Reddit suggesting that hilltribe kids were thieves even though the accuser seemed confused which country Doi Suthep was in. After it blew up and caused real trouble for the hilltribe family the accuser posted a quick retraction before deleting his account leaving everyone else to clean up the mess. 

 

When these women were arrested the first thing their boyfriend did was to post all over social media saying that the Thai police planted counterfeit money and the women were caught up in a scam while trying to return it. Then there were fundraisers set up for what a massive amount of money. 

 

But looking at the evidence it didn’t add up. One of the woman posted she found the money while still in Cambodia, not in Thailand. Then they posted that they were arrested while trying to use the money, not return it. The Facebook profile was later made private but not before many people saw what had been written. 

 

Meanwhile some people were still describing the situation as a scam by Thai police and asking for donations. Someone then posted on social media suggesting that again they were caught returning money because finding money is illegal in Thailand. 

 

From an objective perspective it started to look very fishy. What evidence had been provided so far that they were arrested? From what I saw it was one photo of a police truck. The news article in the local paper (which was picked up by Coconuts) came solely from the info provided by the boyfriend, the same guy who was spreading the “it’s a scam” story to begin with.

 

Given the circumstances one can certainly understand why people are cynical, as such cases have happened before and in this case the details kept changing after holes were found in the evidence. 

 

My guess is they they found or bought the spirit money in Cambodia and later thought they might be able to get away with changing it to real money in a different country. Thinking perhaps naively they the only risk would be the teller says the money is fake and giving

it back. Then after being arrested the scam story was a desperate reaction to try and frame them as victims. 

 

Meaning the fund requests are real but only real in that they got themselves into hot water and need help to get out of it. Not real in that they are victims by any sense of the word. 

 

[Paul Catton]

23 minutes ago, amykat said:

Paul, I tried to apologize to you in the sense that I did not mean my comments specifically to you, I meant a general you. Then that got deleted later.  However ...

 

Saying you are not against females but against feminism, is like a Southerner saying he is not against blacks, as long as they keep picking his cotton. 

Thankyou for re-conveying the apology, I appreciate your candour.

 

My outlook is that although I am pro-female, I am anti-feminist simultaenously, and no, they are not synonomous.

 

There is too much contradiction surrounding the feminist movement cloaked in smoke and mirrors, based on myths and half truths, and evermore glimpses of a toxic and supremacist movement
We have had discourse on this previously and I pointed out my conviction of why my being is wholeheartedly egalitarian.

 

Kind Regards

Paul

 

[amykat]

5 hours ago, Crash999 said:

It’s not too hard to imagine why. For $150k people would put themselves under a lot of scrutiny, especially if they thought they would be portrayed as victims and be able to get away with it. People have done far worse things for far less benefit. 

 

There have been many previous cases in Thailand of accusations proven later to be false, insurance fraud, people who disappeared that later reappeared, etc. Even one case on Reddit suggesting that hilltribe kids were thieves even though the accuser seemed confused which country Doi Suthep was in. After it blew up and caused real trouble for the hilltribe family the accuser posted a quick retraction before deleting his account leaving everyone else to clean up the mess. 

 

When these women were arrested the first thing their boyfriend did was to post all over social media saying that the Thai police planted counterfeit money and the women were caught up in a scam while trying to return it. Then there were fundraisers set up for what a massive amount of money. 

 

But looking at the evidence it didn’t add up. One of the woman posted she found the money while still in Cambodia, not in Thailand. Then they posted that they were arrested while trying to use the money, not return it. The Facebook profile was later made private but not before many people saw what had been written. 

 

Meanwhile some people were still describing the situation as a scam by Thai police and asking for donations. Someone then posted on social media suggesting that again they were caught returning money because finding money is illegal in Thailand. 

 

From an objective perspective it started to look very fishy. What evidence had been provided so far that they were arrested? From what I saw it was one photo of a police truck. The news article in the local paper (which was picked up by Coconuts) came solely from the info provided by the boyfriend, the same guy who was spreading the “it’s a scam” story to begin with.

 

Given the circumstances one can certainly understand why people are cynical, as such cases have happened before and in this case the details kept changing after holes were found in the evidence. 

 

Crash, the $150K was explained and I speculated about it on here before that.  Anyone who lives here should be able to figure that out on their own.  Ever been to a tourist market where things are on sale for 10 times their price?  Seen or heard about farang vs Thai prices at parks and restaurants, theme parks, zoos, etc?

 

One of the most well respected lawyers in CM, while doing some work for me once, said to me "please don't tell my partner how much I am charging you in case he asks, okay?" Now what do you think that means?  That he was giving me such a low price he didn't want his partner to know?  That lawyer is married to a well known judge here.  He did not even realize that I would not think highly of that.  I have had many dealings with lawyers here all the way to the very top firms in BKK. 

 

You have to be able to trust your lawyer, if he tells you in the first hour that he screws his own partner over, do you he won't screw you over?  You can't imagine a situation where the family called a lawyer in a panic and received an inflated quote for services and /or an attempt to just get them to send money and keep it? Ever try to get money back in Thailand?  You will need to hire another lawyer for that.

 

Next point, I did not see or hear about this police planting the money on them? Are you sure about that? But I can imagine that it is possible that the women were locked up and not able to communicate much and maybe the boyfriend was reading about Thailand on his own,  stories where police plant drugs on people and thinking that the girls found real money in Cambodia, he began to think that maybe they wait outside change places and do this kind of scam to people too? This has a reputation as scam central does it not?

 

2nd point, if you did do something illegal, you best not admit it over the phone while police are listening to you, so when you call your husband to explain, you cannot explain the TRUTH. Do you think she just called and said, yes I had this fake money and tried to change it and got caught? No, she did not SAY that while in police custody or in prison.  So her family was most likely left to speculate on their own until they got out on bail.

 

Lastly you are making a lot of vague references to mystery situations, people who go missing but are not scams.  We usually never know why.  And the hilltribe situation is nothing similar, the woman lost her watch somehow and thought they did it and seemed to have a photo that implied that.  In Europe you might know that some groups of kids are known pickpockets and trained to do that.  One time I tried to give some beggar kid in Burma some cash and other kids came out nowhere and tried to snatch it away from both of us.  I closed my fist, and they tried to pry it open and scratched me all to hell, left me bloody ...but they didn't get it.  I have had 8-9 y/o boys in India try to charge me for walking down the street and then pelt me with rocks when I didn't comply ..regular school boys in a small town, not bandits.  When you take a taxi over the border to Mexico, 20 years ago, from the US, there were 7- 8 year old boys who wait and run to open the car door and then insist you owe them $5, it is more than the taxi ride.  I have dozens of stories like that ...so what if one woman got the wrong impression??

 

Overall I think your thought process is not very creative or open minded.  You have to be able to see things from more than one perspective ..not just you ..I am talking about the people on here who refuse to see anything but a scam no matter what.

 

I will admit that I have become that way about many things within Thailand, that involve people who live here, let's say, I go through the scam check list, the person is probably misinformed check list, I am probably paying too much check list, even it it is not a scam, everything will probably go wrong anyway check list, they might be lying to save face check list ...but that is years of experience that taught me that!!  I did not have that same experience anywhere else I lived!!  Did you??

 

[Crash999]

14 hours ago, amykat said:

Crash, the $150K was explained and I speculated about it on here before that.  Anyone who lives here should be able to figure that out on their own.  Ever been to a tourist market where things are on sale for 10 times their price?  Seen or heard about farang vs Thai prices at parks and restaurants, theme parks, zoos, etc?

 

One of the most well respected lawyers in CM, while doing some work for me once, said to me "please don't tell my partner how much I am charging you in case he asks, okay?" Now what do you think that means?  That he was giving me such a low price he didn't want his partner to know?  That lawyer is married to a well known judge here.  He did not even realize that I would not think highly of that.  I have had many dealings with lawyers here all the way to the very top firms in BKK. 

 

You have to be able to trust your lawyer, if he tells you in the first hour that he screws his own partner over, do you he won't screw you over?  You can't imagine a situation where the family called a lawyer in a panic and received an inflated quote for services and /or an attempt to just get them to send money and keep it? Ever try to get money back in Thailand?  You will need to hire another lawyer for that.

 

Next point, I did not see or hear about this police planting the money on them? Are you sure about that? But I can imagine that it is possible that the women were locked up and not able to communicate much and maybe the boyfriend was reading about Thailand on his own,  stories where police plant drugs on people and thinking that the girls found real money in Cambodia, he began to think that maybe they wait outside change places and do this kind of scam to people too? This has a reputation as scam central does it not?

 

2nd point, if you did do something illegal, you best not admit it over the phone while police are listening to you, so when you call your husband to explain, you cannot explain the TRUTH. Do you think she just called and said, yes I had this fake money and tried to change it and got caught? No, she did not SAY that while in police custody or in prison.  So her family was most likely left to speculate on their own until they got out on bail.

 

Lastly you are making a lot of vague references to mystery situations, people who go missing but are not scams.  We usually never know why.  And the hilltribe situation is nothing similar, the woman lost her watch somehow and thought they did it and seemed to have a photo that implied that.  In Europe you might know that some groups of kids are known pickpockets and trained to do that.  One time I tried to give some beggar kid in Burma some cash and other kids came out nowhere and tried to snatch it away from both of us.  I closed my fist, and they tried to pry it open and scratched me all to hell, left me bloody ...but they didn't get it.  I have had 8-9 y/o boys in India try to charge me for walking down the street and then pelt me with rocks when I didn't comply ..regular school boys in a small town, not bandits.  When you take a taxi over the border to Mexico, 20 years ago, from the US, there were 7- 8 year old boys who wait and run to open the car door and then insist you owe them $5, it is more than the taxi ride.  I have dozens of stories like that ...so what if one woman got the wrong impression??

 

Overall I think your thought process is not very creative or open minded.  You have to be able to see things from more than one perspective ..not just you ..I am talking about the people on here who refuse to see anything but a scam no matter what.

 

Amy, I'm sure foreigners are charged more for legal fees but if you've been involved with lawyers then you know that $150k is a massive sum even for the most expensive law firms in Bangkok. I was involved in a 2-year civil legal battle in Pattaya using a law firm from Bangkok, requiring countless court appearances and often 2 lawyers and it added up to only a third of what they were asking for here in what's a straightforward criminal case. 

 

Also, their $150k supposedly included $40k per person for bail. Yet before $10k was raised in total they were both released on bail. Then later the total fund request amount was reduced. It's another point that didn't add up but despite asking the public for monetary help when the public pointed out these inconsistencies they were (at least in the beginning) attacked by friends and family. 

Wouldn't you agree that it starts to look a bit suspicious? And that people would be right in asking why is the story changing and why questions on gofundme were being either deleted or met with rude replies?
 

Quote

I will admit that I have become that way about many things within Thailand, that involve people who live here, let's say, I go through the scam check list, the person is probably misinformed check list, I am probably paying too much check list, even it it is not a scam, everything will probably go wrong anyway check list, they might be lying to save face check list ...but that is years of experience that taught me that!!  I did not have that same experience anywhere else I lived!!  Did you??

 

Totally agree, and in this case there's the "foreigners behaving badly overseas but not accepting responsibility" checklist which I'm sure you know happens a lot here. 

 

The original "It's a scam" post was on Reddit and Facebook. Facebook posts have either been deleted or made private and the Reddit post has been overwritten with a statement saying that the original post was factually incorrect and was, "...created by an individual close to the woman involved but had no credit or right to accuse or make any of the statements made before. They were wholey and completely wrong."

 

Again, I think the gofundme request was probably legit. Maybe someone was running with their own story about Thailand scams and portraying the women as victims to try and help, but it didn't help as it created all sorts of suspicion. Seems they've gotten legal help in the US too and this is why they've completely changed the PR approach. It's the right thing to do as it'll allow the women to quietly return home even if they were guilty of trying to pass off counterfeit money as real. 

[KneeDeep]

The ill conceived Change petition appears to have disappeared;

 

https://www.change.org/p/donald-trump-release-misty-and-danniel (Cached page)

[KneeDeep]

[Kieran00001]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:55 AM, Paul Catton said:

Note to self:

How does one explain the difference between being anti-feminism (feminism being built on myth and half truths to what is now quite often considered a supremacist toxic movement) and being anti-female.

I am the former not the latter.

But, don't let the truth get in front of good rant.

 

 

What on earth are you on about?  What myths and half truths has feminism been built on?  Feminism was built out of disgust for the fact that women were not allowed custody rights of their own children, were not allowed to own land and were not allowed to vote, that's not myths, that's history, a history of male supremacy.

[Paul Catton]

35 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What on earth are you on about?  What myths and half truths has feminism been built on?  Feminism was built out of disgust for the fact that women were not allowed custody rights of their own children, were not allowed to own land and were not allowed to vote, that's not myths, that's history, a history of male supremacy.

Educate yourself regarding Feminism and Egalitarianism.

Perhaps research further of  equality between the sexes from the indoctrination course of Feminiism 101 you possibly sat, and real life may provide answer.

Else start a new thread and I'd be more than happy rebut assumption.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Paul Catton
Word inclusion for context.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, KneeDeep said:

The benefit gig for them in their hometown also got cancelled

[KneeDeep]

Makara appears to have slunk away.

 

Just amykat left, putting up a robust defence for the alleged fraudsters.

[wabothai]

On 2/27/2018 at 4:59 AM, overherebc said:

If they're both such goody two shoes why didn't they hand it in?

Just askin'

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/simple-wellpaid-work-russian-trolls-were-simply-in-it-for-the-money/news-story/b9a533675eb91f8ab6e460c1515c2894.

The resemblance is quite remarkable.

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

Educate yourself regarding Feminism and Egalitarianism.

Perhaps research further of  equality between the sexes from the indoctrination course of Feminiism 101 you possibly sat, and real life may provide answer.

Else start a new thread and I'd be more than happy rebut assumption.

 

If you make ridiculous generalizations don't be surprised to be called a bigot.

[smx1313]

2 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

The ill conceived Change petition appears to have disappeared;

 

https://www.change.org/p/donald-trump-release-misty-and-danniel (Cached page)

To be fair I don't think the petition was something they started. From reading the Facebook postings at the beginning of all this it seems that someone thought, for whatever reason, that Trump should intervene. They then took it upon themselves to start the petition. 

[Paul Catton]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

If you make ridiculous generalizations don't be surprised to be called a bigot.

When making generalization I do not hid behind anonymity.

i.am nether a bigot nor a card carrying member of the Patrichiacy, must have slept in when they were issued.

[smx1313]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The benefit gig for them in their hometown also got cancelled

This is interesting to keep track of.

They're friends tried to start 2 separate benefit parties. One was a music concert, the second a burlesque show.

The concert was canceled because of logistical issues when it came to booking bands.

The burlesque show seems to have happened.

https://www.facebook.com/events/414818578957372/

[pistachios]

Feeling a bit lazy to read 75 pages. What is the consensus of the Thaivisa detectives on this story?
It sounds so shady but then those girls don't really look the type to bring counterfeited money to a foreign country in order to fund their holidays...

Edited March 16, 2018 by pistachios

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, pistachios said:

Feeling a bit lazy to read 75 pages?..

If we start again and repeat everything , will you still be too lazy to read what has newly been written (again)?

[pistachios]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

If we start again and repeat everything , will you still be too lazy to read what has newly been written (again)?

If people start rambling on 500 words long semi off-topic posts like on the last page, yes.

 

However I am available to read a consensus if possible. Since the topic is so long, I am guessing that there is an ongoing debate between the guilty scammer party and the innocent angels party, but I could be wrong.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, pistachios said:

If people start rambling on 500 words long semi off-topic posts like on the last page, yes.

However I am available to read a consensus if possible. Since the topic is so long, I am guessing that there is an ongoing debate between the guilty scammer party and the innocent angels party, but I could be wrong.

You cannot be bothered to read back through the highlights of this thread and you expect me to be bothered to write a summary for you to read !!!!!!!!!!