Arsenal

[carmine]

Heroic. Huge performance from Bellerin (and the rest of the defence). Bayern seemed to play for the draw after about 60 minutes but then got caught out.

Shame about Ramsey's hammy and I hope Sanchez's hip is OK.

I don't think Guardiola has improved Bayern one bit since he took over from Jupp Heynches, who built the team for him. Still convinced by the guy.

[Chicog]

Heroic. Huge performance from Bellerin (and the rest of the defence). Bayern seemed to play for the draw after about 60 minutes but then got caught out.

Shame about Ramsey's hammy and I hope Sanchez's hip is OK.

I don't think Guardiola has improved Bayern one bit since he took over from Jupp Heynches, who built the team for him. Still convinced by the guy.

Oh look, it's the green-eyed monster.

Tell me more about your plan to beat the mighty, er, Anderlecht.

[carmine]

Heroic. Huge performance from Bellerin (and the rest of the defence). Bayern seemed to play for the draw after about 60 minutes but then got caught out.

Shame about Ramsey's hammy and I hope Sanchez's hip is OK.

I don't think Guardiola has improved Bayern one bit since he took over from Jupp Heynches, who built the team for him. Still convinced by the guy.

Oh look, it's the green-eyed monster.

Tell me more about your plan to beat the mighty, er, Anderlecht.

So you are saying he has improved Bayern are you?

[Chicog]

Heroic. Huge performance from Bellerin (and the rest of the defence). Bayern seemed to play for the draw after about 60 minutes but then got caught out.

Shame about Ramsey's hammy and I hope Sanchez's hip is OK.

I don't think Guardiola has improved Bayern one bit since he took over from Jupp Heynches, who built the team for him. Still convinced by the guy.

Oh look, it's the green-eyed monster.

Tell me more about your plan to beat the mighty, er, Anderlecht.

So you are saying he has improved Bayern are you?

No, but Heynckes had an exceptional side at his disposal. You should know about one season wonders.

[Chicog]

So if Rambo's done his hammy, that's probably a couple of months out. Meaning Oxtail-Chamberpot has a chance to cement a starting place.

Not bad.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Chicog

[SantiSuk]

A number of slightly easier Prem games coming up. Wenger might also go 4-4-2 on occasions, with both Theo and Giroud up front. Both seem to deserve to be in the starting 11.

[Chicog]

There is a saying Santi. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Chicog]

I wondered where Bielik had gone...

As it happens, Arsenal beat Bayern Munich 2-0 a few hours before Petr Cech, Olivier Giroud, Mesut Özil and the rest began to etch out a result of heavyweight Champions League importance. The circumstances were somewhat different: 12 miles away from the Emirates Stadium, in leafy Borehamwood, where on the approach to the game a couple of staff in Uefa branded bibs looked less than thrilled with the thankless task of bobbing into the woodland next to the narrow away terrace to hunt for balls that were smashed over in the warm-up.

Welcome to the parallel universe of the Champions League. The competition’s younger brother if you will. It is the Uefa Youth League, the under-19 version that mimics the elite competition. What started out as the NextGen Series, run as an external commercial venture until Uefa twigged what a good idea it was and ushered it in house, has been trialled by the European governing body for two years. Now it is in its first season as a permanent fixture in its competition stable, and offers an opportunity for emerging players to feel that bit closer to the place they all crave to be.

Petr Cech gives Arsenal belief to keep Champions League dream alive

Read more

On every Champions League matchday the group game that takes place in front of a global audience in the evening has its equivalent in the afternoon, which is what brought Bayern’s prospects to Meadow Park, in Hertfordshire, to take on Arsenal’s youngsters in front of a few hundred interested spectators in the low October sunshine.

Bayern’s most advanced hopeful was Fabian Benko, a 17-year-old with a silky touch who Pep Guardiola took to China in pre-season to be with the first team. But it was Arsenal’s most experienced youngster, Alex Iwobi, who seized the moment with the match-winning touches. Jay-Jay Okocha’s nephew, recently capped by Nigeria, could not wipe the smile off his face afterwards. His first goal was a screamer. “I can’t believe I did that,” he said, shaking his head in amazement. The second, ghosting in from the wing to finish precisely, he dedicated to one of his coaches, a certain Thierry Henry. “I owe that to him. He told me before the game that most wingers get their goals at the back post so I tried to take his advice on board,” Iwobi said. “Other coaches I have had have all played football but no disrespect to them, I have never had anyone like Thierry. I am basically learning from the best.” Happy days.

The significance of the Uefa Youth League and its particular flavour is not lost on Andries Jonker, the head of Arsenal’s academy. It is, he says, “like gold”. At such a delicate phase in the development of young players, tasting these experiences, pitting wits against different styles of football, becoming immersed in a more intense level of competition, carries a substantial weight.

At the end of the young Gunners’ win against their Bayern counterparts, Jonker went into the home dressing room with a clear message. “Welcome to the mature world of football,” he told his band of teenagers. “This is about winning. This is about getting to the next round. If not you are out. That’s what we learn here. It’s top football. It’s in or out. It’s black or white. There is no grey.” The starkness of that was keenly felt at Meadow Park. Arsenal, with maximum points from their games against Bayern, Olympiakos and Dinamo Zagreb, are in great shape for the knockout stage. The German side, who have lost all three of their matches so far, are out.

Arsenal’s boys will travel with the first team to their remaining away fixtures at Bayern and Olympiakos. Although they stay in slightly more modest accommodation, the routine is that they play their fixture, then watch the first team game, and then all return home together. The impressions they pick up are a significant part of the development process. “The fact we are in the same plane, same airport, playing the same opponent, we watch the match, you can see it gives the boys a boost in the way they feel close,” says Jonker. “They feel so close. It makes them feel motivated.”

The combination of tension and excitement, of knife-edge consequences, is a much more realistic preparation for life in a first team than the protected environment of regular under-21 football in England, which is almost designed to lack pressure. Jonker describes it as “the feeling” of football that really matters to players. “You cannot deny that the name of the opponent, the exposure to the opponent gives a feeling. To play against Bayern Munich or Real Madrid or Barcelona or Ajax, those boys want to compete themselves with that kind of opponent. To get the opportunity is a huge challenge to prove yourself and see how far you are.”

Arsène Wenger has been a regular critic of the current system in England, which makes it generally difficult for youngsters to bridge the world of youth football and first-team football because they lack serious competition. Hence the increasing use of the loan system to try to fill the void. Dan Crowley and Gedion Zelalem, two of those who are eligible for the under-19s, are on loan with Barnsley and Rangers respectively. Another handful, the likes of England’s Chris Willock and France’s Jeff Reine-Adelaide who would certainly have played against Bayern, are away at the Under-17 World Championship in Chile. Jonker was pleased that without so many potential players Arsenal were still able to beat Bayern. “I think in this age group, from 17-21, we have talented players.”

Arsenal’s team had a mix of English and imported players. Among those to catch the eye was the imposing Finnish goalkeeper Hugo Keto, the Pole Krystian Bielik did a decent impression of Per Mertesacker, and the England youth midfielder Ben Sheaf was dominant and energetic. There is plenty of potential to work with.

FacebookTwitterPinterest

Krystian Bielik’s performance was reminiscent of Per Mertesacker Photograph: David Price/Arsenal FC via Getty Images

It is in this environment that the familiar Arsenal face of Henry has become absorbed. Their all-time record goalscorer is spending the season working with the youths, partly to fulfil one of the criteria for his coaching badges, partly to give something back to the game and club he loves, and partly to establish where he wants to set his own coaching ambitions.

He was on the pitch in his tracksuit before the Bayern game imparting words of advice to Reiss Nelson, a bag of speedy tricks who is only 15 years old. Then he grabbed his notepad and headed for the dugout alongside two other young coaches on the scene, Ryan Garry – who was an Arsenal youth player until injuries forced early retirement – and the goalkeeping coach Jason Brown. Jonker likes the fact this age-group has young, keen coaches who are learning themselves as part of the set-up.

Henry’s status obviously attracts special attention. Even for the scholars – in a recent media training exercise nearly every player chose him as their all-time footballing idol. “We all want to listen and learn,” says Iwobi. “He’s like one of us. He just jokes around. But when we have to be serious he’s very serious. He is teaching us what to do. He may criticise us a few times but that’s just for us to get better.” Iwobi’s uncle Jay-Jay, who has also been such a big influence, has two main strands of advice he stresses upon his nephew: express yourself and listen to your coaches.

Jonker has been impressed with Henry’s attitude to a new side of the game. “Thierry’s own wish is to be at Arsenal five, six, seven days a week,” the Dutchman observes. “It’s his own ambition to invest in his own future as a coach. What I am recognising is a guy who had a brilliant career as a player that is able to transfer his knowledge and experience to the boys. And the most important thing is he is willing to do it. That’s why he is very welcome with us and that’s why I invited him to be with this staff, to get experience as a coach and to be on the other side.

“He is doing much more than he is supposed to do in order to get his coaching badge. It’s his wish, his desire. We didn’t have to ask anything. It was his request to Wenger: ‘I’d like to be in the academy, is there any possibility? I just want to help.’ I started to work with him and found out how committed he is. He is really, really motivated to developing himself as a coach. He is open, he is internationally orientated, and he is a really good guy. Thierry is young, Ryan Garry, Jason Brown – I have very young staff. I let them do many things and I try to give them feedback.”

Jonker, a Dutchman who worked for a long time with Louis van Gaal, is in his second season at Arsenal’s academy. It has been an interesting period, trying to introduce some changes that have been challenging and different. The fundamental objective is to prepare the youngsters to have the chance to impress Wenger, as the likes of Jack Wilshere, Kieran Gibbs, Héctor Bellerín and Francis Coquelin from the current squad have been able to do.

For anyone working in youth development, the pathway to the first team is a critical aspect. “I know I am in the most comfortable position of all academy managers because we have a coach who is here for a very long time who has the reputation and the guts to bring in very young players,” says Jonker. “But you know the alternatives. What would you do? The only thing I can do is try to make sure we have the highest quality potential we can bring in. Then it is up to Arsène to decide. But I know it is not easy for him.

“That’s where my experience helps. When I was in Barcelona, in Bayern Munich, in Wolfsburg – especially with Bayern Munich and Barcelona you can compare them to Arsenal – I know how high the pressure is on the team, the staff, the head coach, to win. Then the question is all the time are you going to bring in a youngster over a player who has a huge reputation? Arsenal has a brilliant squad with many good players available. So I am not stupid.”

Arsenal’s Under-19s left Borehamwood in fine spirits. Iwobi couldn’t help but wonder whether news of his goals would reach Wenger and push his case for inclusion in the Capital One Cup game at Sheffield Wednesday next week. He was on the bench for the last tie at Tottenham Hotspur and would love to get on this time.

A few hours after jumping on the minibus at Meadow Park, the teenagers arrived at the Emirates to watch the first team pull off that extraordinary result against Guardiola’s passing masters. Not a bad few hours in the life of their football club.

[SantiSuk]

"the fact we are in the same plane ....". Really? - I would never have allowed that in my days as a risk manager!

[SantiSuk]

Yet another sublime pass by Ozil for Arsenal's first. That reminds me that we haven't heard form Carmine in weeks about how rubbish Ozil is and how he wasn't worth the money

[Chicog]

Ooooh top of the league that's nice.

[jellydog]

Ooooh top of the league that's nice.

Wenger out.

[SantiSuk]

Two more points saved by Cech I reckon! Nice to be top for 24 hours/maybe more, but let's not get carried away - we are flattered by a dismal Chelsea season and injuries to Aguero. This is a poor season for Prem football (though interesting given the contribution from the Hammers and Leicester). None of the Prem teams are playing at a level that is top 5 Europe IMO and my beef with Arsenal and Wenger's ambition for the last 3-4 years is that top 5 Europe should have been our mission (we have had the financial resources, but Stan can't take the risk). Still 1 to 2 players short of that.

The goals are going in from Theo and Giroud, but still need that world class striker and Coquelin back-up (at least one of which is likely to be unsourceable mid-season).

Yeah - I know - always look on the bright side of life

[Chicog]

Useless fact of the week:

Arsène Wenger is first to manage 20 Premier League home matches against single opponent (Everton) without ever losing. #AFCvEFC #BPL

[stoneyboy]

[Chicog]

You want some? 'Coz I'll give it ya!

[smokie36]

I'm torn apart by the level of witty banter on here.

[rijit]

Ah come on smokes leave the sad boys 2 talk to themselves

[2unique]

I'm torn apart by the level of witty banter on here.

You have to call it bantz or the kids won't know what you're talking about

[Chicog]

Cheer up smokes, you're back in the Europa League places and you've nearly caught Leicester!

[smokie36]

Cheer up smokes, you're back in the Europa League places and you've nearly caught Leicester!

I was so busy laughing at the chavs I'd hardly noticed.

[rijit]

[SantiSuk]

Laughing at us being out of the League Cup perchance Spuds? Surely you understand that big clubs don't want to try hard in The League Cup - it's there for the second stringers and the object is and should be to avoid screwing up your Prem and CL campaign. Surely you should want us to be coontinuing on in such competitions to provide diversion of resource and greater injury potential.

If you think I am wrong (anyone who read this thread would know I personally have always derided the bluddy waste of space competition) then watch Wenger and Mourinho's faces in the post match interviews. Tell me they are not delighted to have got out of the thing free from the disapprobation that an overly obvious throwing of the game would bring.

The League Cup should be redesigned for Championship down contenders (or maybe those in the CL or UEFA Cups should be given the chance for a bye - I'm sure most top half Prem Chairmen and Managers would vote for that if the commercial interest of the FA were not dominant, so we have to put up with this charade of press and fan delight about 'giant killing'.

Well-done to Wednesday - I won't be watching the game even if it were available. I didn't watch us play in the league Cup final 4 years ago, such is my disdain for this farce of a competition when applied to Prem teams

[SantiSuk]

... On the other hand, the failure to score and the letting in of 3 goals does say something about the quality of our second string. We know that Flam and Arteta are passed it and BFG is headed that way but if any of Chambers, Debuchy, Gibbs and Campbell had a poor game it suggests a point for attention next Summer, if not before.

Top 5 Europe teams have at least 5 players that would grace the first team on a regular starting basis (rather than being adequate substitutes or Plan B options). We have Jack Willshere, Ospina and Theo. Gibbs seems to have sunk and I'm still unconvinced by Ox and Welbeck. Rosicky probably past it in that category also, though a very useful sub.

I'm guessing on the basis of no knowledge that the problem last night was the defensive mid pairing of Flam and Arteta was the problem - pure mid-table Championship quality that, and a vital link in any performance. Wenger really does have to sort this position out in January at whatever price!

Edited October 28, 2015 by SantiSuk

[Chicog]

I watched the first half but the performance rendered watching the second unnecessary on a school night, now the clocks have gone back.

The Ox whispered to the medic and give him "a look" which apparently meant he had a "tight hamstring" so he was taken off as a precaution.

Walcott's was a calf, but again whether that was a precaution or not I don't know.

But the rest of them: Well Debuchy certainly did nothing to earn his first team place back. Mertesacker looked like he couldn't have cared less.

Cech did all he could, so no blame for him.

Chambers - not a centre half. I don't think he ever will be.

And with Flamini the only experienced one in midfield, we were essentially swamped every time we got into their half. Loads of possession but nothing really damaging. Pointless Olly being there.

Campbell ran around a lot but doesn't appear to know that it's a team game.

Still, those kids that are used to strolling around on a million+ a year will have been brought down to earth, although I don't think their seniors did much by way of supporting or guiding them.

There was not much of a reaction to either first half goal; more of "shrugs all round".

Can't say I kicked the cat over this one, but after recent performances, the WMG brigade have been biting their little lips in anger; so they're letting out a lot of pent up frustration today, much to everyone's amusement.

It's like watching a three year old have a tantrum in a supermarket aisle.

[wilai]

Laughing at us being out of the League Cup perchance Spuds? Surely you understand that big clubs don't want to try hard in The League Cup - it's there for the second stringers and the object is and should be to avoid screwing up your Prem and CL campaign. Surely you should want us to be coontinuing on in such competitions to provide diversion of resource and greater injury potential.

If you think I am wrong (anyone who read this thread would know I personally have always derided the bluddy waste of space competition) then watch Wenger and Mourinho's faces in the post match interviews. Tell me they are not delighted to have got out of the thing free from the disapprobation that an overly obvious throwing of the game would bring.

The League Cup should be redesigned for Championship down contenders (or maybe those in the CL or UEFA Cups should be given the chance for a bye - I'm sure most top half Prem Chairmen and Managers would vote for that if the commercial interest of the FA were not dominant, so we have to put up with this charade of press and fan delight about 'giant killing'.

Well-done to Wednesday - I won't be watching the game even if it were available. I didn't watch us play in the league Cup final 4 years ago, such is my disdain for this farce of a competition when applied to Prem teams

err...they already get a bye!

'Teams involved in European competition during the season receive a bye to the third round, the remaining Premier League teams enter at the second round, and the remaining Football League teams enter at the first round'

[rijit]

Can't say i particulary liked wenger arguably blaming the.debutants for the result with 'they weren't ready to play in games like this ' well matey that's your job to know who is and who isnt ready so if your looking at a 'blame game', best look a little nearer home.

[carmine]

Can't say i particulary liked wenger arguably blaming the.debutants for the result with 'they weren't ready to play in games like this ' well matey that's your job to know who is and who isnt ready so if your looking at a 'blame game', best look a little nearer home.

If he didn't think they were ready why did he select them?

[Chicog]

If he didn't think they were ready why did he select them?

Because realistically the old days of being able to blood your youngsters at the end of the season when it wouldn't affect your results are long gone.

So Wenger sent them out to see how they'd do.

They didn't do well. He said so.

Which means it's likely he'll loan them out to get some more combative experience than the Academy.

Not an entirely wasted exercise really.

We've had our fun in this competition already.

[Chicog]

err...they already get a bye!

'Teams involved in European competition during the season receive a bye to the third round, the remaining Premier League teams enter at the second round, and the remaining Football League teams enter at the first round'

If memory serves, Premier League participation in the League Cup was the Football League's condition for the Premier League breakaway.

It's probably one of the Football League's biggest earners nowadays.

I think the prize money is almost inconsequential.