Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[aright]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Maybe just that now once people get to see what Brexit will actually mean for them, they might want to reconsider.

I can't speak for other people but I never expected plain sailing. A recent poll said 65% of Brits wanted the government to get on with Brexit. I have 2 friends who voted stay  and who have not changed their opinions. However they now support getting on with Brexit as a result of what they regard as the disingenuous, obstructive, humiliating tactics of the EU. 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, aright said:

I can't speak for other people but I never expected plain sailing. A recent poll said 65% of Brits wanted the government to get on with Brexit. I have 2 friends who voted stay  and who have not changed their opinions. However they now support getting on with Brexit as a result of what they regard as the disingenuous, obstructive, humiliating tactics of the EU. 

 

The Brexit brigades own pol now shows remain in the lead!

 

The poll, conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain, found that 44% of Brits want to vote on the deal Theresa May brings back from Brussels at the end of Brexit negotiations, while 36% do not.

It is the first poll to indicate public support for a referendum on the final deal. A separate question found that more people would support remaining in the European Union than leaving, with 44% in favour and 41% against.

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-uk-public-backs-second-brexit-referendum-2018-4

[lvr181]

Actually those who voted for exit (Brexit) must accept responsibility - like it or not. Not a lot of deep thinking went into what it meant to get back control of your own borders (an admirable idea at the time).

 

Perhaps it could be easily fixed by holding a 'referendum' vote immediately to opt out of Brexit? Has the Brit. Govt. got the balls (or the will) to do that? 

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It's not about getting the result I want, but I would support another referendum, yes. 

 

For one, the last one was too long ago, half a million voters have died since then and another half a million are not old enough to vote, they deserve their vote on this.  Also because the Leave campaign are currently accused of electoral fraud, and so I believe it should be put on hold until the investigation is complete and if it is true then it should be nullified and done again.  And then there are the polls where the public back a second and final referendum in a large majority.  If you believe in the will of the people then you would back a second referendum, the public want it by a 8 point lead.

One Year to Brexit: 65% say NO to second referendum as Boris hails countdown to FREEDOM

 

Even four in ten people (38%) who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum now agree that the Leave vote should be respected, according to the poll commissioned to mark one year to go until the UK formally leaves the EU.

And total of 65% of voters in the survey did not want a second referendum on Britain's membership of the bloc, the online survey of more than 2,000 adults found.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/938502/brexit-news-boris-johnson-one-year-countdown-uk-eu-exit

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

One Year to Brexit: 65% say NO to second referendum as Boris hails countdown to FREEDOM

 

Even four in ten people (38%) who voted Remain in the 2016 referendum now agree that the Leave vote should be respected, according to the poll commissioned to mark one year to go until the UK formally leaves the EU.

And total of 65% of voters in the survey did not want a second referendum on Britain's membership of the bloc, the online survey of more than 2,000 adults found.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/938502/brexit-news-boris-johnson-one-year-countdown-uk-eu-exit

 

You may care to note that the poll I posted is not as old as yours.  Now back to your will of the people quote, is it still something you support now that you can see that the will of the people is for another referendum?

[tebee]

5 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

In 2016 the EU increased the tariff on oranges from third party countries from 3.2% to 16%; and while the Spanish citrus growers (who had been lobbying) rejoiced in the protectionism of this incredible increase, and started planting more groves of Navel’s and Valencia Late’s, one must surely question the primacy of producer interests over that of the consumer. It is us, the consumers that will pay for this protectionism.

It's 10.4%, but again a whole raft of countries, including most of Africa are exempt see https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/0805102210?country=&day=22&month=4&year=2018#import

[aright]

16 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You may care to note that the poll I posted is not as old as yours.  Now back to your will of the people quote, is it still something you support now that you can see that the will of the people is for another referendum?

No. You are grabbing at straws if you think my poll which was weighted to be representative of all adults conducted on the  26&27 March  is out of date.

Mrs May has consistently said there will not be another referendum, we are leaving the EU.

Your argument has been done to death and is fruitless........end of.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The Brexit brigades own pol now shows remain in the lead!

 

The poll, conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain, found that 44% of Brits want to vote on the deal Theresa May brings back from Brussels at the end of Brexit negotiations, while 36% do not.

It is the first poll to indicate public support for a referendum on the final deal. A separate question found that more people would support remaining in the European Union than leaving, with 44% in favour and 41% against.

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-uk-public-backs-second-brexit-referendum-2018-4

How is this the Brexit brigade's own poll? Best for Britain are a pro-Remain group!

 

Best for Britain is a political campaign, launched on 26 April 2017, "fighting to keep the door open to EU membership” 

Founder: Gina Miller

 

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

No. You are grabbing at straws if you think my poll which was weighted to be representative of all adults conducted on the  26&27 March  is out of date.

Mrs May has consistently said there will not be another referendum, we are leaving the EU.

Your argument has been done to death and is fruitless........end of.

 

Are you saying that no matter what the will of the people today the vote simply must go ahead?  You've certainly changed your tune since the will of the people quote.

 

It is not grabbing at straws to refer to a different poll with a different result.  There is also the January ICM poll which saw a second referendum reach a 16 point lead.  And what about the Google Consumer April Survey of 220,000 people which saw 52% of people state that they would vote remain in a second referendum?  We know that leave voters are twice as likely to have changed their mind since Brexit than remain voters, if you actually cared about the will of the people you would respect the chance for people to change their minds rather than only referencing a Daily Express poll that happens to be in your favour while disregarding all the others that are not.  There is no doubt, the country has reached a turning point, the lead had been narrowing since the referendum and now the tables have turned, it is time the government acknowledged that and respected the will of the people to have a say in their future.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

How is this the Brexit brigade's own poll? Best for Britain are a pro-Remain group!

 

Best for Britain is a political campaign, launched on 26 April 2017, "fighting to keep the door open to EU membership” 

Founder: Gina Miller

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I just went with the article, "conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain", but I can see now that that was a mistake on their part.

[StreetCowboy]

15 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Are you saying that no matter what the will of the people today the vote simply must go ahead?  You've certainly changed your tune since the will of the people quote.

 

It is not grabbing at straws to refer to a different poll with a different result.  There is also the January ICM poll which saw a second referendum reach a 16 point lead.  And what about the Google Consumer April Survey of 220,000 people which saw 52% of people state that they would vote remain in a second referendum?  We know that leave voters are twice as likely to have changed their mind since Brexit than remain voters, if you actually cared about the will of the people you would respect the chance for people to change their minds rather than only referencing a Daily Express poll that happens to be in your favour while disregarding all the others that are not.  There is no doubt, the country has reached a turning point, the lead had been narrowing since the referendum and now the tables have turned, it is time the government acknowledged that and respected the will of the people to have a say in their future.

The people cannot change their mind.  We are lemmings, not capricious and whimsical goats, one day holding one opinion, then changing it suddenly and for no reason other than revelation, education and realisation.  There shall be no tinkering with the will of the people.  It has been decided.

 

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

The people cannot change their mind.  We are lemmings, not capricious and whimsical goats, one day holding one opinion, then changing it suddenly and for no reason other than revelation, education and realisation.  There shall be no tinkering with the will of the people.  It has been decided.

 

 

The bookies at first seemed sure there would be no second referendum, but not any more, they keep on slashing the odds.

[aright]

26 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Are you saying that no matter what the will of the people today the vote simply must go ahead?  You've certainly changed your tune since the will of the people quote.

 

It is not grabbing at straws to refer to a different poll with a different result.  There is also the January ICM poll which saw a second referendum reach a 16 point lead.  And what about the Google Consumer April Survey of 220,000 people which saw 52% of people state that they would vote remain in a second referendum?  We know that leave voters are twice as likely to have changed their mind since Brexit than remain voters, if you actually cared about the will of the people you would respect the chance for people to change their minds rather than only referencing a Daily Express poll that happens to be in your favour while disregarding all the others that are not.  There is no doubt, the country has reached a turning point, the lead had been narrowing since the referendum and now the tables have turned, it is time the government acknowledged that and respected the will of the people to have a say in their future.

I don't disregard other polls and since you like yougov so much........

 

While the EU referendum result may have ended up 52/48, post-referendum politics have settled into something far less evenly balanced. The rise of the “Re-Leavers” – those who voted to Remain in the EU but think that the government has a duty to leave – mean that the Conservatives are fishing in a massive lake, while the other parties are casting their rods into a pond

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/forget-52-rise-re-leavers-mean-pro-brexit-electora/

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, aright said:

I don't disregard other polls and since you like yougov so much........

 

While the EU referendum result may have ended up 52/48, post-referendum politics have settled into something far less evenly balanced. The rise of the “Re-Leavers” – those who voted to Remain in the EU but think that the government has a duty to leave – mean that the Conservatives are fishing in a massive lake, while the other parties are casting their rods into a pond

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/forget-52-rise-re-leavers-mean-pro-brexit-electora/

 

The polls showed back in May last year, not now, and it is the will of the people today that counts, isn't it?

[Swimman]

Latest Brexit News!   4000 EU nurses resign from the NHS and go home -- 800 arrive. There must be a message there somewhere. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/25/brexit-blamed-record-number-eu-nurses-give-up-britain

[CG1 Blue]

29 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, I just went with the article, "conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain", but I can see now that that was a mistake on their part.

Only on their part eh

[aright]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The polls showed back in May last year, not now, and it is the will of the people today that counts, isn't it?

I'm no statistician but I would have thought that a poll in May 2017 which said 68% of the electorate said we should leave the EU and a recent poll which said 65% said we should leave  means nothings changed.  

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Actually those who voted for exit (Brexit) must accept responsibility - like it or not. Not a lot of deep thinking went into what it meant to get back control of your own borders (an admirable idea at the time).

 

Perhaps it could be easily fixed by holding a 'referendum' vote immediately to opt out of Brexit? Has the Brit. Govt. got the balls (or the will) to do that? 

You say there was not a lot of deep thinking. I might agree if you are referring to the remainers. I would say there was a lot more deep thinking over a long period of time for most of those who voted leave. Nothing to fix.  

 

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, aright said:

I'm no statistician but I would have thought that a poll in May 2017 which said 68% of the electorate said we should leave the EU and a recent poll which said 65% said we should leave  means nothings changed.  

 

You could only reach that conclusion if you disregarded the other pols, including the one which interviewed a 12 times larger sample than the only one you have.

[CG1 Blue]

28 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Latest Brexit News!   4000 EU nurses resign from the NHS and go home -- 800 arrive. There must be a message there somewhere. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/25/brexit-blamed-record-number-eu-nurses-give-up-britain

I think you've been taken in by typical Guardian anti-Brexit propaganda. The number of nurses leaving the NMC register (which tracks those ELIGIBLE to work in those areas) has been increasing over the past few years, and has worsened as the NHS crisis has worsened. Why would nurses from the EU stay here with the NHS crumbling around them?

 

Here's an extract from the NMC's own website for you - more reliable than the Guardian I would say:

 

"Recently public attention has focused on the reducing number of EU nurses and midwives joining our register. But today’s figures show that it is mainly UK nurses and midwives who are leaving the register, resulting in the overall downward trend.

Earlier this month we conducted a survey of more than 4,500 nurses and midwives who left the register over the previous 12 months. Excluding retirement, the top reasons given included working conditions, (including issues such as staffing levels), a change in personal circumstances (such as ill health or caring responsibilities) and a disillusionment with the quality of care provided to patients"

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by CG1 Blue

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Only on their part eh

 

Sad.  Have you got anything relating to the topic to say?

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Sad.  Have you got anything relating to the topic to say?

Plenty.  And I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong on something.

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you've been taken in by typical Guardian anti-Brexit propaganda. The number of nurses leaving the NMC register (which tracks those ELIGIBLE to work in those areas) has been increasing over the past few years, and has worsened as the NHS crisis has worsened. Why would nurses form the EU stay here with the NHS crumbling around them?

 

Here's an extract from the NMC's own website for you - more reliable than the Guardian I would say:

 

"Recently public attention has focused on the reducing number of EU nurses and midwives joining our register. But today’s figures show that it is mainly UK nurses and midwives who are leaving the register, resulting in the overall downward trend.

Earlier this month we conducted a survey of more than 4,500 nurses and midwives who left the register over the previous 12 months. Excluding retirement, the top reasons given included working conditions, (including issues such as staffing levels), a change in personal circumstances (such as ill health or caring responsibilities) and a disillusionment with the quality of care provided to patients"

 

 

 

 

Did you not realise that the Guardian quotes the 2017/18 in comparison with the 2016/17 stats whereas what you have posted is commenting on the period 2012/13 - 2016/17 and so is completely irreverent?

[Kieran00001]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Plenty.  And I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong on something.

 

Fantastic, I really should have checked the article for typos before I referenced it, my bad, you happy now?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, I just went with the article, "conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain", but I can see now that that was a mistake on their part.

 

Oh what an absolute classic ….. “I can see now that that was a mistake on their part” ….. ha ha, but heaven forbid that it should be viewed as a mistake on your part.

 

You probably looked at their heading “Best For Britain” and immediately concluded that it could not possibly refer to a campaign for remain …. leading contender for comment of the year, cosmic, truly cosmic man ??  ✌️✌️ ?

Edited April 25, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[CG1 Blue]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Did you not realise that the Guardian quotes the 2017/18 in comparison with the 2016/17 stats whereas what you have posted is commenting on the period 2012/13 - 2016/17 and so is completely irreverent?

The Guardian is trying to insinuate that the nurses are leaving because of Brexit. Nurses are mainly leaving because the NHS is falling apart. That's what I'm saying.

The UK government have already confirmed EU citizens rights to remain.  Why would there still be an increase in numbers leaving AFTER the government did that? Because the NHS crisis is deepening, that's why.

 

Fake Guardian news.  

 

[aright]

21 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You could only reach that conclusion if you disregarded the other pols, including the one which interviewed a 12 times larger sample than the only one you have.

That's a two way street.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, I just went with the article, "conducted by YouGov for pro-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain", but I can see now that that was a mistake on their part.

 

So you weren't aware of the fact that Best For Britain is Gina Miller's pro-remain group? It receives funding from famous British citizen George Soros by the way.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Khun Han

[CG1 Blue]

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Fantastic, I really should have checked the article for typos before I referenced it, my bad, you happy now?

Typos? Come on; you talk as though you're an authority on this topic, so you should know who Best for Britain are! Hardly a typo.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to flog this dead horse. 

 

[Swimman]

44 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you've been taken in by typical Guardian anti-Brexit propaganda. The number of nurses leaving the NMC register (which tracks those ELIGIBLE to work in those areas) has been increasing over the past few years, and has worsened as the NHS crisis has worsened. Why would nurses from the EU stay here with the NHS crumbling around them?

 

Here's an extract from the NMC's own website for you - more reliable than the Guardian I would say:

 

"Recently public attention has focused on the reducing number of EU nurses and midwives joining our register. But today’s figures show that it is mainly UK nurses and midwives who are leaving the register, resulting in the overall downward trend.

Earlier this month we conducted a survey of more than 4,500 nurses and midwives who left the register over the previous 12 months. Excluding retirement, the top reasons given included working conditions, (including issues such as staffing levels), a change in personal circumstances (such as ill health or caring responsibilities) and a disillusionment with the quality of care provided to patients"

 

 

 

Thanks but that provides no stats but it is highly likely that other than EU staff are leaving perhaps in even greater numbers.

 

 

This may interest you --- from the Nursing Times--
"Drop in EU nurses continues, driving NMC register decline
25 APRIL, 2018 BY NICOLA MERRIFIELD

The number of nurses and midwives registered to practise in the UK continues to be lower than the same point a year ago, largely due to a further decline in European staff, reveal new figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council."

 

Whatever -

 

Life is better out of the NHS and gets even better outside "Brexit" Britain! 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Swimman