Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, Swimman said:

Latest Brexit News!   4000 EU nurses resign from the NHS and go home -- 800 arrive. There must be a message there somewhere. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/25/brexit-blamed-record-number-eu-nurses-give-up-britain

Excellent - more jobs for British nurses; they're salaries will go up, 
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs

[Swimman]

5 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Excellent - more jobs for British nurses; they're salaries will go up, 
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth
And the hens lay soft-boiled eggs

You can dream!  There are no "British" nurses to recruit to approx 40,000 vacant NHS posts. A pay award of 6% spread over 3 years was recently announced following an 8-year pay freeze -  Is it any wonder people quit? 

[Kieran00001]

29 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The Guardian is trying to insinuate that the nurses are leaving because of Brexit. Nurses are mainly leaving because the NHS is falling apart. That's what I'm saying.

The UK government have already confirmed EU citizens rights to remain.  Why would there still be an increase in numbers leaving AFTER the government did that? Because the NHS crisis is deepening, that's why.

 

Fake Guardian news.  

 

 

You say that without any evidence.  In the paper you posted the numbers of British nurses fell but the number of EU nurses increased by 3452 between March 2016 and 2017. The Guardian quotes the March 2018 figures which show the number of EU nurses decreased by 3157 since March 2017.  The trend has changed, while still increasing numbers of EU nurses were actually offsetting the reducing number of British nurses before, they no longer are.

[CG1 Blue]

32 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Thanks but that provides no stats but it is highly likely that other than EU staff are leaving perhaps in even greater numbers.

 

 

This may interest you --- from the Nursing Times--
"Drop in EU nurses continues, driving NMC register decline
25 APRIL, 2018 BY NICOLA MERRIFIELD

The number of nurses and midwives registered to practise in the UK continues to be lower than the same point a year ago, largely due to a further decline in European staff, reveal new figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council."

 

Whatever -

 

Life is better out of the NHS and gets even better outside "Brexit" Britain! 

The point is, people are leaving the NHS in droves because of the NHS crisis.  If it was due to Brexit why is the number of UK nurses leaving also increasing? 

This is the Guardian manipulating the facts to push their Remain agenda.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

4 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You say that without any evidence.  In the paper you posted the numbers of British nurses fell but the number of EU nurses increased by 3452 between March 2016 and 2017. The Guardian quotes the March 2018 figures which show the number of EU nurses decreased by 3157 since March 2017.  The trend has changed, while still increasing numbers of EU nurses were actually offsetting the reducing number of British nurses before, they no longer are.

Are you saying that you actually take The Guardian, and anything they publish seriously ?? 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

The point is, people are leaving the NHS in droves because of the NHS crisis.  If it was due to Brexit why is the number of UK nurses leaving also increasing? 

This is the Guardian manipulating the facts to push their Remain agenda.

 

 

British nurses have been leaving for the past three years, that is due to the NHS crisis, EU nurses increased in numbers for the first two years of that period despite the crisis, it is only this year that they have reduced in number, since Brexit.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Are you saying that you actually take The Guardian, and anything they publish seriously ?? 

 

Are you saying that you doubt the Guardians percentage calculations of the NMC figures or the NMC figures themselves?

[tebee]

31 minutes ago, Swimman said:

You can dream!  There are no "British" nurses to recruit to approx 40,000 vacant NHS posts. A pay award of 6% spread over 3 years was recently announced following an 8-year pay freeze -  Is it any wonder people quit? 

They are having a campaign to recruit nurses from the caribbean now - a new Windrush generation ?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The point is, people are leaving the NHS in droves because of the NHS crisis.  If it was due to Brexit why is the number of UK nurses leaving also increasing? 

This is the Guardian manipulating the facts to push their Remain agenda.

 

Absolutely, EU workers that are working for the NHS have been guaranteed the right to stay in the UK and work post Brexit, if they are leaving the NHS, it is a career choice and nothing to do with the UK leaving or remaining as a member of the EU. The statistics show them leaving the NHS, but they do not show that they are leaving the UK

[Swimman]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Absolutely, EU workers that are working for the NHS have been guaranteed the right to stay in the UK and work post Brexit, if they are leaving the NHS, it is a career choice and nothing to do with the UK leaving or remaining as a member of the EU. The statistics show them leaving the NHS, but they do not show that they are leaving the UK

Please provide an authoritative link to any Government statement which guaranteed any EU NHS worker the RIGHT to remain in the UK post brexit..... 

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Swimman said:

Please provide an authoritative link to any Government statement which guaranteed any EU NHS worker the RIGHT to remain in the UK post brexit..... 

In this world, nothing is certain but woe.

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Please provide an authoritative link to any Government statement which guaranteed any EU NHS worker the RIGHT to remain in the UK post brexit..... 

Here you go:

 

"The UK government has reached an agreement with the European Union on citizens’ rights in negotiations on the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. This will provide certainty about the future to millions of EU citizens and their families in the UK. Most importantly, it will allow you to stay here after we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, and to continue to access public funds and services."

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/status-of-eu-nationals-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know

 

 

[Swimman]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

They are having a campaign to recruit nurses from the caribbean now - a new Windrush generation ?

Nothing would surprise me but I had not heard that one. Those from outside the EU have a tough time obtaining a work visa and professional registration is more demanding -- Added to which (can't recall the detail) they have to show a £30K+ salary to remain beyond a certain time. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

17 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Are you saying that you doubt the Guardians percentage calculations of the NMC figures or the NMC figures themselves?

Yes, I doubt the validity of anything published in the Guardian, Mail, Express, Sun, Mirror, the preposterously named Independent, or any other publications that are incapable of reporting without bias and prejudice.

 

……  I notice however, that you responded quickly to this comment of mine made a few minutes ago, but have avoided responding to my comment about your hilarious “Best For Britain” post which I made an hour or so ago ….

[Swimman]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Here you go:

Thanks -- That had passed by without me noticing.

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Yes, I doubt the validity of anything published in the Guardian, Mail, Express, Sun, Mirror, the preposterously named Independent, or any other publications that are incapable of reporting without bias and prejudice.

 

……  I notice however, that you responded quickly to this comment of mine made a few minutes ago, but have avoided responding to my comment about your hilarious “Best For Britain” post which I made an hour or so ago ….

 

The Guardian has merely commented on stats that are in the public domain, if you think there is some bias then lets here it, otherwise your comments are as worthless as your previous one and will just be ignored.

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST YEAR .... IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP WITH CURRENT AFFAIRS IT IS BETTER NOT TO COMMET ..... 

Or if you shout.  

[Orac]

Here you go:
 
"The UK government has reached an agreement with the European Union on citizens’ rights in negotiations on the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. This will provide certainty about the future to millions of EU citizens and their families in the UK. Most importantly, it will allow you to stay here after we leave the EU on 29 March 2019, and to continue to access public funds and services."
 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/status-of-eu-nationals-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know
 
 

Surely this is part of the Withdrawal Agreement and is reliant on there being a ‘deal’ since “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” as stated by both parties - it is not a unilateral declaration from the U.K. govt.


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[CG1 Blue]

27 minutes ago, tebee said:

They are having a campaign to recruit nurses from the caribbean now - a new Windrush generation ?

That's fine by me.  It's about time we stopped discriminating against people from the Commonwealth in favour of EU citizens.

 

Hopefully lessons have been learnt from Windrush!

[CG1 Blue]

13 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

Surely this is part of the Withdrawal Agreement and is reliant on there being a ‘deal’ since “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” as stated by both parties - it is not a unilateral declaration from the U.K. govt.


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I think it's a done deal, but you could be right.

[tebee]

31 minutes ago, Swimman said:

Nothing would surprise me but I had not heard that one. Those from outside the EU have a tough time obtaining a work visa and professional registration is more demanding -- Added to which (can't recall the detail) they have to show a £30K+ salary to remain beyond a certain time. 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/uk-government-does-deal-with-jamaica-to-recruit-nurses-for-nhs/7024177.article

 

[Swimman]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/uk-government-does-deal-with-jamaica-to-recruit-nurses-for-nhs/7024177.article

 

Thanks -I never doubted what you said but unless the Gov is also easing the acquisition of visas and instructing the NMC to shortcut the professional registration process anyone wishing to work in the UK still has to navigate an obstacle course.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, aright said:

The will of the people was expressed at the referendum. Are you saying we should keep having referendums until you get the result you want?

 

And then we we should keep having referendums until we get the result I want?

 

Sorry about that. We already did.

Edited April 25, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[Eloquent pilgrim]

28 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Surely this is part of the Withdrawal Agreement and is reliant on there being a ‘deal’ since “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” as stated by both parties - it is not a unilateral declaration from the U.K. govt.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Yes, I think you are right, it is not a unilateral declaration, and rightly so at this moment; however, it is a statement of intent by the UK government that says, we think this is the proper and fair way to proceed, and we intend to guarantee the rights of EU citizens presently in the UK to remain. It is only fair that the UK would expect the same declaration of intent from the EU for UK citizens living and working there. I am sure that both parties will keep to such a reciprocally beneficial agreement, but like many other facets of leaving the EU, it is yet to be set in stone   

[tebee]

1 minute ago, Swimman said:

Thanks -I never doubted what you said but unless the Gov is also easing the acquisition of visas and instructing the NMC to shortcut the professional registration process anyone wishing to work in the UK still has to navigate an obstacle course.

They are employing recruitment consultants to do this for the candidates. The next problem is the CBI are up in arms because they are using all the tier 2 visas quota for medical personnel and firms are being refused visas for engineers - there are only 20,000 a year to go round 

  

[Swimman]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

They are employing recruitment consultants to do this for the candidates. The next problem is the CBI are up in arms because they are using all the tier 2 visas quota for medical personnel and firms are being refused visas for engineers - there are only 20,000 a year to go round 

  

LOL --- What a surprise!  However, the "consultants" will not be able to secure professional registration for anyone - There is a bit more involved than filling a form 

https://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/joining-the-register/trained-outside-the-eueea/

 

In case you wonder my wife's sister is a Thai Nurse Practioner/Midwife who is attempting to secure UK registration.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Swimman

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Yes, I think you are right, it is not a unilateral declaration, and rightly so at this moment; however, it is a statement of intent by the UK government that says, we think this is the proper and fair way to proceed, and we intend to guarantee the rights of EU citizens presently in the UK to remain. It is only fair that the UK would expect the same declaration of intent from the EU for UK citizens living and working there. I am sure that both parties will keep to such a reciprocally beneficial agreement, but like many other facets of leaving the EU, it is yet to be set in stone   

I think it was a reciprocal agreement that both sides would preserve the rights of those currently residing legally on the far side of the Channel from home.  

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

 

Surely this is part of the Withdrawal Agreement and is reliant on there being a ‘deal’ since “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” as stated by both parties - it is not a unilateral declaration from the U.K. govt.


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Fair point but they can't risk reneging on that one.

[nontabury]

16 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

 

But there are a lot of short term contracts available, they don't appeal to people that are already settled in the UK, they appeal to migrants, 90% of our seasonal agricultural work is taken by short term migrants, I think everyone prefers that those migrants go home during the months they have no work rather than sitting in the UK on benefits.

 

 

These short term contracts may not appeal to Brits, however for many of them,there is unfortunately no.alternative. This is one of the results of allowing unrestricted entry from the poorer countries ( soon to be regions) into the U.K.

It’s  all about keeping cost down,at the expense of the poorer inhaditants of the U.K. Of course this squeezing in the income, of the poor, does not effect those parasites in Westminster, or for that matter, ex-pats residing in a shoe box on Sukumvit.

 

 

 

[nontabury]

16 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

We could have a vote!

And if you don’t receive the number of votes, you think you should receive. Will you then,as a Remoaner demand another vote? ?

Edited April 25, 2018 by nontabury