Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[billd766]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

Still, it's lucky the referendum was only advisory....... 

 

Were you in the UK or elsewhere and qualified to vote?

 

Did your household get one of the government leaflets?

 

Did you read it?

 

Did you comprehend what it said. especially this part?

 

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

 

Registration ends on 7th June. Find out how to register

 

If you did read and comprehend the part about The Government will implement what you decide. then you knew that if the vote was for Brexit, that is what the government would do. If it was to remain then the UK would have stayed.

 

The referendum was laid down by the Conservative government in a very lazy fashion as they expected to win easily. That they didn't win but went for Brexit shows that there were a few politicians who had/have some moral standards.

 

The referendum was held, the Brexit voters won it, the government is making its promise come true. There was nothing in the leaflet that said anything about a second, third etc vote if they didn't get their way, so why do you want to change the rules now?

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Did you comprehend what it said. especially this part?

 

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

Somewhat amazing that that the above sentence is so difficult to comprehend.

[Orac]

Somewhat amazing that that the above sentence is so difficult to comprehend.

The David Cameron govt that made that promise is long gone along with his reputation where he has somehow managed to make Tony Blair look like a reasonable statesman again and given everyone something to remember him by rather than his pork based sexual acts.


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[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

The David Cameron govt that made that promise is long gone along with his reputation where he has somehow managed to make Tony Blair look like a reasonable statesman again and given everyone something to remember him by rather than his pork based sexual acts.


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Pray tell. What has that comment got to do with

 

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

As a wise man once said

 

It is better to keep quiet ..................

[tebee]

19 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Were you in the UK or elsewhere and qualified to vote?

 

Did your household get one of the government leaflets?

 

Did you read it?

 

Did you comprehend what it said. especially this part?

 

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide. If you’re aged 18 or over by 23rd June and are entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

 

 

........

 

The referendum was held, the Brexit voters won it, the government is making its promise come true. There was nothing in the leaflet that said anything about a second, third etc vote if they didn't get their way, so why do you want to change the rules now?

As it happens, I was qualified to vote, but they messed up my registration so I couldn't and neither did I get the leaflet.

 

But whatever it says   it can not, under the British constitution , bind MPs to do anything.

[Orac]

As a wise man once said
 
It is better to keep quiet ..................

Because it was a ridiculous, if not misleading, way to go about it - promised the public that their decision would be honoured and then making the legal side of it advisory and using that to block the amendments that would usually be expected for a legally binding referendum.

I used to like Cameron and thought him a politically savvy operator despite not backing him as leader and voting for David Davies when he took over, however, I have nothing but contempt for him now for the responsibility he must bear for the current situation though Theresa May has run him a close second.


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[billd766]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

As it happens, I was qualified to vote, but they messed up my registration so I couldn't and neither did I get the leaflet.

 

But whatever it says   it can not, under the British constitution , bind MPs to do anything.

 

Unlucky about your vote.

 

However Brexit is proceeding whether you or the British constitution say it can or not.

 

I suspect that the government have better lawyers who advised them that it can happen, and so it is happening.

[Grouse]

59 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I will answer that, when you answer this

 

Should be fairly simple and easy for a person of your calibre.

It is very simple. Unless trading terms are identical on both sides, a border is inevitable. That's true in both directions.

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

As it happens, I was qualified to vote, but they messed up my registration so I couldn't and neither did I get the leaflet.

 

But whatever it says   it can not, under the British constitution , bind MPs to do anything.

What British constitution would that be ?

 

Britain does not have a constitution.

[tebee]

The "leave means leave" brigade are happy for businesses and lives to be ruined in pursuit of their "clean" Brexit. They're maniacs - ultra nationalists who put "the nation" above actual people and the economy. And Conservatives and UK Labour are both seeking to appease them.

[Rimmer]

Off topic troll/baiting posts and some replies have been removed

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

What British constitution would that be ?

 

Britain does not have a constitution.

Those students who took a degree in it must be very surprised now !

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom

Edited May 16, 2018 by tebee

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It is very simple. Unless trading terms are identical on both sides, a border is inevitable. That's true in both directions.

Then answer it then

 

Quote

Now take the time to spell out how you can possibly discuss a border when you have no idea what the future trading relationship is going to entail.

As trading terms of any description have not been ironed out, how can you discuss a border ?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

Those students who took a degree in it must be very surprised now !

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom

Took a Degree in Wiki ?

 

You should have tried reading the Wiki page

 

Quote

The United Kingdom does not have one specific constitutional document named as such. Instead, the so-called constitution of the United Kingdom, or British constitution, is a sum of laws and principles that make up the country's body politic.

 

A sum of laws and principles are not the same as a Constitution.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

24 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

The David Cameron govt that made that promise is long gone along with his reputation where he has somehow managed to make Tony Blair look like a reasonable statesman again and given everyone something to remember him by rather than his pork based sexual acts.


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Ha Ha Ha ……Rodrigo Duterte and Kim Jong-un couldn't  make Tony Blair look like a reasonable statesman ?✌️

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Then answer it then

 

As trading terms of any description have not been ironed out, how can you discuss a border ?

We can continue as long as you wish. If we remain in the customs union and single market, no border is necessary. Any other deal requires a border and that is true in both directions. Please give me another solution that would not require a border

[Rimmer]

A flame and reply have now been removed

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

The cynical genius of the Leave campaign was to make a wide variety of promises, like a restaurant with a magical menu that shows everyone all their favourite dishes and a big sign saying ‘free food’

Other expectant diners are pouring through the doors too, drawn in by other dishes from the magical menu and the promise of free food .All of them know what they want and the fact that their neighbour wants something else is irrelevant. They don’t care if their dish and your dish cannot be made at the same time. (They also aren’t concerned that almost half the potential customers are giving the place a wide berth. A big sign saying ‘free food’ is usually a scam.)

So it’s largely NOT true to say to an individual Leaver ‘you didn’t know what you voted for.’ They did. The magical menu was ingenious. Everyone could pick as many things as they wanted from the list. The problem is that now the kitchen needs to start making the dishes. They have a new menu with a much shorter list of options. None of them match what was on the magical menu. The new menu includes prices. The restaurant closes shortly. And the staff can’t even agree among themselves how to make the few dishes on the new menu.

Some diners realise it’s a con, get up and go. But most don’t. They demand whatever they saw on the magical menu in the first place. And they still want it for free. So here’s the challenge for Remainers – everyone who voted Leave knew what they were voting for. Somewhere on the magical menu they saw exactly what they wanted. We have to acknowledge and understand that.

And here’s the challenge for Leavers – if you cannot agree with the people around you what everyone wants, in a realistic and affordable way, how do you expect it to happen? It is no longer possible for all of you to be satisfied. Indeed, if you want to be angry with anyone it should be with the people who drew up the magical menu in the first place. They knew it was a scam. They still know.

Great analogy and quite a few wanted unicorns , which are course are lovely , beautiful creatures - and who wouldn't want one after all. 

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

And this person wonder why we think leavers are jerks....

 

A  constitution does not have to be one document - even the US is not. It still exists- or are you suggesting we have anarchy in the UK ? ( coming someday - maybe...) 

Try reading your own links before calling anyone a jerk

 

Quote

Instead, the so-called constitution of the United Kingdom, or British constitution,

The SO CALLED

 

It is SO Called because the UK does not have an official Constitution.

[tebee]

But we do, It is just not codified in one document.

 

There have been books written about it for centuries I.E.  http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4351/4351-h/4351-h.htm

 

It is one of the tings that makes the UK an interesting place...

 

 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Without a doubt.

 

So let us forget all this thwart Brexit nonsense., crying crocodile tears and trying to throw spanners into the works.

 

Exit March 2019, no extension and WTO rules. Something that will focus the minds of the EU.

 

You would think that they would start getting the message by now, that there is an inherent problem with the EU.

 

It has already led to Brexit.

 

Hungary, Poland, Austria, Italy now coming out with Italy First.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-politics/struggling-to-agree-on-government-pact-italys-league-turns-on-eu-idUSKCN1IG1VD?il=0

 

You would have thought that the EU might have learned something. They somehow think more EU is the answer.

Italy's PM has already said that leaving the EU is not up for discussion and anyway none of the countries you mentioned could afford to leave with the exception perhaps of Austria but Austria is firmly anchored in the EU, they may moan but they aren't opposed to the EU.

Edited May 16, 2018 by soalbundy

[metisdead]

A post containing insults has been removed.

 

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed.  

 

An inflammatory post containing an insulting emoji has been removed, again. 

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

For Thai (girls) overstaying in the UK marrying an EU citizen was the get out of jail card - no income requirements from the spouse either - have been to a lot of weddings and met a lot of Thai / Polish , Hungarian /Czech couples - and great couples they are too - both hard working , family orientated  - the guys are generally young and good looking , speak good English and are committed to making a successful prosperous marriage on equal terms.  Makes a change from some of the alcoholic , ageing sleazebags which were their only options for staying before. I'll chalk that up as to one of the unremarked advantages of being/staying in the EU.

The only example I have of that is a Thai / Polish couple I know in Bethnal Green. He's hard working, i.e. does a lot of very wonky DIY jobs around the house, but pays for nothing. He's younger and good looking - which enables him to f* around a lot with Brazilians and other nationalities (great for diversity and inclusion).

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

The cynical genius of the Leave campaign was to make a wide variety of promises, like a restaurant with a magical menu that shows everyone all their favourite dishes and a big sign saying ‘free food’

Other expectant diners are pouring through the doors too, drawn in by other dishes from the magical menu and the promise of free food .All of them know what they want and the fact that their neighbour wants something else is irrelevant. They don’t care if their dish and your dish cannot be made at the same time. (They also aren’t concerned that almost half the potential customers are giving the place a wide berth. A big sign saying ‘free food’ is usually a scam.)

So it’s largely NOT true to say to an individual Leaver ‘you didn’t know what you voted for.’ They did. The magical menu was ingenious. Everyone could pick as many things as they wanted from the list. The problem is that now the kitchen needs to start making the dishes. They have a new menu with a much shorter list of options. None of them match what was on the magical menu. The new menu includes prices. The restaurant closes shortly. And the staff can’t even agree among themselves how to make the few dishes on the new menu.

Some diners realise it’s a con, get up and go. But most don’t. They demand whatever they saw on the magical menu in the first place. And they still want it for free. So here’s the challenge for Remainers – everyone who voted Leave knew what they were voting for. Somewhere on the magical menu they saw exactly what they wanted. We have to acknowledge and understand that.

And here’s the challenge for Leavers – if you cannot agree with the people around you what everyone wants, in a realistic and affordable way, how do you expect it to happen? It is no longer possible for all of you to be satisfied. Indeed, if you want to be angry with anyone it should be with the people who drew up the magical menu in the first place. They knew it was a scam. They still know.

With respect, what a load of....

Most leavers just want out of the corrupt, controlling, money squandering, anti-democratic EU club, whatever that takes. If we can get the exact type of leave we want, that would be a bonus, but it's not a show stopper.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

32 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Italy's PM has already said that leaving the EU is not up for discussion and anyway none of the countries you mentioned could afford to leave with the exception perhaps of Austria but Austria is firmly anchored in the EU, THEY MAY MOAN

If you are you referring to Paolo Gentiloni, he won't have any say in the matter, because he is soon to be replaced as PM. The Italian election results indicate that it will most likely be between Matteo Salvini of the Northern League and 5Star Movement leader Luigi Di Maio; both of these men and their respective parties are Eurosceptic and are now negotiating to form a coalition government. A wind of change is about to blow through Italy.

 

And how will the EU deal with Austria and the Visegrad group; they have refused to accept EU quotas of migrants, and have voted rightly or wrongly to put their national identities and preservation of their cultures before financial considerations. They are prepared to face financial hardship to prevent the immigration of migrants from third world islamic countries, so I don't know what the EU can realistically do about them, other than invite them to leave.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Orac said:

 

Are you sure?

 

 

Are you serious, posting this scandalous piece of editing?!  Do you not notice how all the content is clipped so much?

 

Jeez, at 53 seconds you see Matthew Elliott so obviously taken out of context.  Here's Matthew's real view on leaving the SM:

 

 

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

If you are you referring to Paolo Gentiloni, he won't have any say in the matter, because he is soon to be replaced as PM. The Italian election results indicate that it will most likely be between Matteo Salvini of the Northern League and 5Star Movement leader Luigi Di Maio; both of these men and their respective parties are Eurosceptic and are now negotiating to form a coalition government. A wind of change is about to blow through Italy.

 

And how will the EU deal with Austria and the Visegrad group; they have refused to accept EU quotas of migrants, and have voted rightly or wrongly to put their national identities and preservation of their cultures before financial considerations. They are prepared to face financial hardship to prevent the immigration of migrants from third world islamic countries, so I don't know what the EU can realistically do about them, other than invite them to leave.

Some politicians in Italy and Austria may be Eurosceptics but they aren't suicidal, their problems would be compounded by having the Euro as a currency, I doubt that the Italians would want or could afford to go back to the Lira. Austria has the problem that a lot of German firms provide work there, cities like Steyr for instance rely on firms like BMW. There will storms ah coming no doubt but not that drastic and who knows what the UK will do in the end, the fat lady is still singing.

[aright]

16 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

If you are you referring to Paolo Gentiloni, he won't have any say in the matter, because he is soon to be replaced as PM. The Italian election results indicate that it will most likely be between Matteo Salvini of the Northern League and 5Star Movement leader Luigi Di Maio; both of these men and their respective parties are Eurosceptic and are now negotiating to form a coalition government. A wind of change is about to blow through Italy.

 

And how will the EU deal with Austria and the Visegrad group; they have refused to accept EU quotas of migrants, and have voted rightly or wrongly to put their national identities and preservation of their cultures before financial considerations. They are prepared to face financial hardship to prevent the immigration of migrants from third world islamic countries, so I don't know what the EU can realistically do about them, other than invite them to leave.

You make a good point. Up to now Brussels have felt the populist threat is confined to the peripheries of political Europe. Hungary and Poland have shown two fingers to Brussels and Germany regarding immigration and rule of law issues.

Italy is the third largest economy in the EU and as Sergio Mattarella said recently if it is run by a eurosceptic coalition(Remainers love coalitions) the "Edifice of Europe is shaking" 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

2/ I am not in denial that economic migrants exist --- I think that people in subhuman living conditions have to right to improve their conditions (just like the Europeans that once upon a time fled to the Americas).

I don't think this is a good analogy.  Europeans fled to America to build a new nation.  Not really the same is it.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Some politicians in Italy and Austria may be Eurosceptics but they aren't suicidal, their problems would be compounded by having the Euro as a currency, I doubt that the Italians would want or could afford to go back to the Lira. Austria has the problem that a lot of German firms provide work there, cities like Steyr for instance rely on firms like BMW. There will storms ah coming no doubt but not that drastic and who knows what the UK will do in the end, the fat lady is still singing.

Well the politicians in Italy that are Eurosceptic are all the politicians in the Northern League and the 5 Star Movement parties, and these are the 2 parties that are about to form a coalition government, so careful where you place your bets.

 

I agree that Austria are less likely, although their hardening anti-immigration policy is already clashing with Brussels. As for the V4, they are steadfastly refusing immigrant quotas and their governments have been elected on such campaigns. They can't be forced to accept their quotas, so does the EU allow 4 or 5 members to reject quotas and expect the rest of the Union to happily soak up the surplus and overflow ……… hmmmmm, you tell me

 

P.S. I assume you meant that their problems would be compounded by NOT having the Euro as a currency 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim