Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[CG1 Blue]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

Having worked in my freelance days, in 7 different counties myself, I don't understand  the current demonization of immigrants, especially on here as we must assume that most of the people  here are immigrants themselves!   

 

Historically too, Britain has been a country where large numbers went to work abroad, would Bangladeshis and Indians want to come to the UK  if it were not the "mother country"?

Whilst immigration wasn't top of my list of reasons for leaving the EU, I do understand why it was important to a lot of people.

The last 10-15 years has seen some areas of the UK totally transformed to the extent that you don't feel like you're in Britain. I don't live in one of those areas, but I've been to a few of them.

 

The problem is not immigration, but the accelerated rate of immigration in the last 10-15 years.

 

I understand you live in France, so you probably wouldn't empathise.

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

The last 10-15 years has seen some areas of the UK totally transformed to the extent that you don't feel like you're in Britain. I don't live in one of those areas, but I've been to a few of them.

 

The problem is not immigration, but the accelerated rate of immigration in the last 10-15 years.

Yep.

 

A population increase by the size of a City the size of Manchester, year on year for nearly a decade is not sustainable.

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

??

 

I thought eu immigrants had (according to law., but never enforced.....) 3 months to find a job.

 

But I'd be very interested to hear about an eu immigrant that was deported.

 

Can't be bothered to respond to " liable to be thrown out should they fail to meet the financial requirements, but hey ho, no doubt you at least think you are different to them"

 

- as it's so obviously drivel.

 

I refer to non EU immigrants actually, as they have much more in common with your own status as an immigrant.  And there is nothing even slightly resembling drivel in anything I have said, unlike your persistent holding onto to a Thai immigration term over the actual definition of an English word, presumably you didn't learn English from a Thai, so why have you started with the word immigrant?

[Kieran00001]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Does it really matter ?

 

The same twisted logic that had you screaming the Daily Mail had 17,000,000 readers.

 

Shoite logic.

 

When it actually has nearly twice as many?  Didn't you try to pretend that it as less?  Wasn't it your poor logic that ignored the fact that the majority of readers these days are online?  You are an ironic soul!

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

Yep.

 

A population increase by the size of a City the size of Manchester, year on year for nearly a decade is not sustainable.

 

But they are not immigrants, they are visitors.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

But they are not immigrants, they are visitors.

Knock knock on wood.

 

Can you see the words immigrants or visitors in my comment below ?

 

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

A population increase by the size of a City the size of Manchester, year on year for nearly a decade is not sustainable.

Don't scratch your head, you might start a fire.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Daily Mail has a readership of 17,000,000 (oddly close to the pro-Brexit vote).

 

It’s anti immigration, demonization of immigrants is read by those 17,000,000 and is printed, recorded- hard evidence.

 

Your assertions regarding my nationality are groundless, you have no evidence hard or otherwise to back them up.

 

That you should make your assumptions regarding my nationality so much part of your arguments is not a surprise given your clearly expressed anti foreigner sentiments.

 

Away with your obfuscation, and wild unsubstantiated guesses.

 

The demonization of immigrants was central to the Pro Brexit arguments.

 

 

I think you used the monthly readership number (17m) to falsely equate this to the number of Brexit voters. Am I right?

[Kieran00001]

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Knock knock on wood.

 

Can you see the words immigrants or visitors in my comment below ?

 

Don't scratch your head, you might start a fire.

 

Well duh!  You said, "yup" to this comment, "The problem is not immigration, but the accelerated rate of immigration in the last 10-15 years."

 

And I said they are not immigrants, I applied your own twisted logic that the words stamped in a passport change the fact that people coming to live in a country permanently are immigrants, you appeared to already have forgotten and failed to pull them up on this and correct them to what you believe them to be, visitors. Or are you a hypocrite?

Edited June 12, 2018 by Kieran00001

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Knock knock on wood.

 

Can you see the words immigrants or visitors in my comment below ?

 

Don't scratch your head, you might start a fire.

Double post

Edited June 12, 2018 by Kieran00001

[The Renegade]

European Commission logic

 

Quote

The Commissioner with responsiblity for the euro, Valdis Dombrovskis, says the EU is "making some progress" on proposals for eurozone reform.

Sounds fantastic. No one can deny that the € needs reform.

 

He then goes on to say

 

Quote

He says EU countries have, however, refused to start negotiations on the Commission's plans to change the ESM rescue fund, because they object to embedding the changes into the EU's legal framework.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44440829

 

By what strange logic does that equate to making progress ??

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

Just to show what collateral damage the anti-immigrant rhetoric - and in particular Theresa May's response to it - is doing to the country.

 

We are refusing visas to doctors and  information technology professionals from non-EU  counties in huge numbers

 

 

The figures, obtained by Eversheds Sutherland, the law firm, via a Freedom of Information request, showed that 2,360 applications from doctors from outside the European Economic Area were rejected between November 6 and April 5 of this year, while 1,946 applications from non-EEA IT professionals were also unsuccessful.

 

The data also show that while 103 applications were made by pharmacists during the five-month period, not a single visa was issued.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/3eb607a4-6b0f-11e8-b6eb-4acfcfb08c11

 

How is the UK supposed to become a world center of excellence if firms here can't get the staff they need ?

 

Another problem that leaving the EU will exacerbate . 
 

You missing the point,regarding immigrants. What the British people are demanding, is controlled immigration, in other words we accept those people that the country requires, this at the moment would include doctors and pharmacist. What we don’t need is uncontrolled immigration, that results in an influx of none skilled immigrants, whose sole purpose is to lower the income of the lower paid in our country.

 Unfortunately for you to understand this point, you would need to be unselfish and to think of those less fortunate than yourself.???

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you used the monthly readership number (17m) to falsely equate this to the number of Brexit voters. Am I right?

No.

 

I inserted the comment ‘Oddly’ which was not a claim of anything.

 

That said the correlation between voting Leave v Newspaper read has been examined elsewhere:

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/study-readers-of-the-sun-express-and-daily-mail-strongly-favoured-brexit-in-eu-referendum/

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

European Commission logic

 

Sounds fantastic. No one can deny that the € needs reform.

 

He then goes on to say

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44440829

 

By what strange logic does that equate to making progress ??

 

 

Sure, because the Eurozone is just another name for the ESM Rescue Fund and so there couldn't possible be anything else to reform within it! ?

 

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Similar rules apply in the UK and might be applied had not Theresa May stripped UK Boarder Dept of funds and staff. 

I think that those Thias who are legally resident in the U.K. cannot be deported on the whim of an official,as can a farang who is residing in Thailand.

 One thing I don’t understand about you,is you reluctance to state your nationaliy.

 Could it be that you are ashamed of your own country.

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You missing the point,regarding immigrants. What the British people are demanding, is controlled immigration, in other words we accept those people that the country requires, this at the moment would include doctors and pharmacist. What we don’t need is uncontrolled immigration, that results in an influx of none skilled immigrants, whose sole purpose is to lower the income of the lower paid in our country.

 Unfortunately for you to understand this point, you would need to be unselfish and to think of those less fortunate than yourself.???

 

What percentage of foreign born people living permanently in the UK are immigrants and what percentage are visitors?  You seem to be freely mixing the two as you claim that there is an influx of immigrants which by your logic is impossible as everyone arrives as a visitor and only becomes an immigrant after 5 years.

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You missing the point,regarding immigrants. What the British people are demanding, is controlled immigration, in other words we accept those people that the country requires, this at the moment would include doctors and pharmacist. What we don’t need is uncontrolled immigration, that results in an influx of none skilled immigrants, whose sole purpose is to lower the income of the lower paid in our country.

 Unfortunately for you to understand this point, you would need to be unselfish and to think of those less fortunate than yourself.???

You too are missing my point.

 

This is non-EEA immigration that we do control - but we are making a bl**dy mess of it. The anti-immigration rhetoric means that we only allow 20,000 skilled personnel in each year, which is far less than we need. This was masked before by EU citizens filling those places using free movement, but now they no longer want to come as their future is uncertain. The only result of this stupid policy is canceled operations and hi-tech firms moving overseas where they can get the staff they want .

 

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You missing the point,regarding immigrants. What the British people are demanding, is controlled immigration, in other words we accept those people that the country requires, this at the moment would include doctors and pharmacist. What we don’t need is uncontrolled immigration, that results in an influx of none skilled immigrants, whose sole purpose is to lower the income of the lower paid in our country.

 Unfortunately for you to understand this point, you would need to be unselfish and to think of those less fortunate than yourself.???

Unfortunately the xenophobic atmosphere generated with the Brexit Leave campaign has spilled over and is discouraging foreigners with the ‘education/skills/specialisms’ the UK economy and society needs from coming to the UK or remaining.

 

Why bring one’s education and skills to the UK to be faced by xenophobic yobs when the same skills and education are in demand elsewhere?!

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What percentage of foreign born people living permanently in the UK are immigrants and what percentage are visitors?  You seem to be freely mixing the two as you claim that there is an influx of immigrants which by your logic is impossible as everyone arrives as a visitor and only becomes an immigrant after 5 years.

In the period 2016-2017 there were 442,375 international students studying in the UK.

 

These people appear in the total immigration numbers, perhaps accounting for in excess of 120,000 ‘immigrations’ per year.

 

I don’t believe anybody argues these students are ‘immigrants’ but they are counted as such.

 

 

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education

[CG1 Blue]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No.

 

I inserted the comment ‘Oddly’ which was not a claim of anything.

 

That said the correlation between voting Leave v Newspaper read has been examined elsewhere:

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/study-readers-of-the-sun-express-and-daily-mail-strongly-favoured-brexit-in-eu-referendum/

You said the DM readership is 17m, very similar to the number who voted Brexit.  That was insinuating that Brexiteers were all DM readers, or that all DM readers voted Brexit.  That was your aim, right?

When in fact DM readership is around 1.5m.

 

No UK newspaper has 17m readers, or 13m, or 10m. Your point was invalid I'm afraid.

 

 

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

In the period 2016-2017 there were 442,375 international students studying in the UK.

 

These people appear in the total immigration numbers, perhaps accounting for in excess of 120,000 ‘immigrations’ per year.

 

I don’t believe anybody argues these students are ‘immigrants’ but they are counted as such.

 

 

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Research--Policy/Statistics/International-student-statistics-UK-higher-education

 

There are three ways immigration is measured in the UK; the ONS measures and extrapolates a sample of immigration and emigration and does include students, the Home Office which measures long term settlement of non-EU migrants and does not include students, and the census, which also does not include students.

[Jimbo1964]

BreXit isn't the problem. It's the useless, gutless UK government plebes and EU dictators like Verhofstadt wanting to screw the UK over, for daring to leave the dictatorship. That's are the problem. BreXit is just the tip of the iceberg. E.g. Italy, Slovenia, Hungary. There are more to come.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Jimbo1964 said:

BreXit isn't the problem. It's the useless, gutless UK government plebes and EU dictators like Verhofstadt wanting to screw the UK over, for daring to leave the dictatorship. That's are the problem. BreXit is just the tip of the iceberg. E.g. Italy, Slovenia, Hungary. There are more to come.

Italy has said it is not leaving, I can't think why Slovenia or Hungary would leave, they profit from it.

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You said the DM readership is 17m, very similar to the number who voted Brexit.  That was insinuating that Brexiteers were all DM readers, or that all DM readers voted Brexit.  That was your aim, right?

When in fact DM readership is around 1.5m.

 

No UK newspaper has 17m readers, or 13m, or 10m. Your point was invalid I'm afraid.

 

 

Appart from it wasn’t my point.

 

I also thanked Renegade for pointing out my stated DM readership of 17,000,000 Was incorrect and presented the correct number (a little over 13,000,000.

 

The data from the last link I posted suggests 66% of DM readers voted Leave, that equates to 8,580,000 Leave votes. (Over half all leave votes cast).

 

[edit] You too seem not to understand ‘Readership’ is not ‘Number of Papers Sold’, a little thing called ‘the internet’ changed all that.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Immigrants face all sorts of challenges in their new countries, I didn't say you were a citizen, I said you were an immigrant.  Immigrants from outside the Eu also have to show funds to remain in the UK and can be deported at any time, they are immigrants none the less.  And it doesn't say immigrant in their passport, it says long term visitor, but no doubt you consider those who come to live permanently in the UK as immigrants, right?

It does’t Say “long time visitor” on my wife’s passport, it says visa- “Spouse of xxxxx”and then on the attached UKVI 01 permission to stay 33 months,initially. Adding that this is part of the route to a 5 yr permanent settlement ( British passport). No where on the documents is there a requirement to regularly attend an immigration office, or to provide evidence of earnings each year. It does say she can obtain employment, allthough no access to public funds.

No where does it say none- immigrant, as it did on my passport, during my 20yrs in Thailand.

 I can only assume that you,being such a special  person, have been given a  different permission to remain in Thailand than the rest of us foreigners.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I think that those Thias who are legally resident in the U.K. cannot be deported on the whim of an official,as can a farang who is residing in Thailand.

 One thing I don’t understand about you,is you reluctance to state your nationaliy.

 Could it be that you are ashamed of your own country.

No I’m not ashamed of my own country, rather I regard my nationality not something I wish to share on a public forum.

 

I trust this answers your question.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

Immigrants don't have the right to vote in the UK either - so are they expats too?

E.U. Immigrants are allowed to vote in local elections. Or at least I think so.

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

E.U. Immigrants are allowed to vote in local elections. Or at least I think so.

Correct

 

Quote

EU citizens voting rights EU citizens living in the UK, can vote in: • European Parliamentary elections • Local government elections • Police and Crime Commissioner elections Depending on where you live, you may also be able to vote in the Northern Ireland Assembly, Scottish Parliament, London Mayor and Assembly, or National Assembly for Wales elections.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/208184/EU-Citizens-and-voting-in-the-UK.pdf

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, Jimbo1964 said:

BreXit isn't the problem. It's the useless, gutless UK government plebes and EU dictators like Verhofstadt wanting to screw the UK over, for daring to leave the dictatorship. That's are the problem. BreXit is just the tip of the iceberg. E.g. Italy, Slovenia, Hungary. There are more to come.

 

Italy, only two days ago, ruled out leaving.  Did you miss the Slovenian election last week?  The party who won are pro Europe, there will be no referendum any time soon.  In Hungary, Orban has been in for four terms, what's he waiting for?  Obviously he doesn't want to leave either, so that's none so far.

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

E.U. Immigrants are allowed to vote in local elections. Or at least I think so.

Yes, but they can't vote in National elections or indeed, the referendum.

 

Non-EEA citizens have no voting rights unless they naturalize, but then they are definitely not an immigrant.   

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Italy, only two days ago, ruled out leaving.

Where did you come up with that little gem ?

 

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

Did you miss the Slovenian election last week? 

Did you ?

 

Quote

Slovenian nationalist party set for power after winning election

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/03/anti-immigration-party-leads-exit-poll-in-slovenian-election

 

???

 

Did you and Champer attend the same school ?