Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Where were these "liar" cases proven? In the RuamRudy Court of Justice?

JRM was a week or so ago when he accused Jeremy Corybyn of not supporting the GFA.

Boris, well there are multiple instances that you can easily google, but surely you don't believe his statement last week that he cannot remember where he spent GBP40 million of public money for his vanity garden bridge fiasco?

Farage - well, again Google is your friend, but to help you out here is a little article called Does Nigel Farage Tell Lies? Yes - Here's Five Of Them

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

To be fair my post referred to a study by the Cambridge centre for Business Research your post referred to something you read on Twitter.

So we are in agreement - Cambridge boffins pessimistic about effects of Brexit.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Read it again. Time for my dwinky. 

 I agree about the "Dwinky" and wish I could join you , but I am not understanding you , and it might not be entirely or even at all, your fault.

My initial comment was that if indeed most of the politicians that that are involved in the issue and that I assume know more about the issues involved than both you and me are for" remain" it should tell as something. To which it was replied that Yes it should tell as that they are money grabbing and self serving. 

 My question the was that, if indeed that was their motivation why would they want remain and outsource some of their power to the EU, I wold assume that they would want to "brexit" and consolidate power.

PS: I have no skin on the game, I am American and read this threads only to get better informed on the subject. 

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 I agree about the "Dwinky" and wish I could join you , but I am not understanding you , and it might not be entirely or even at all, your fault.

My initial comment was that if indeed most of the politicians that that are involved in the issue and that I assume know more about the issues involved than both you and me are for" remain" it should tell as something. To which it was replied that Yes it should tell as that they are money grabbing and self serving. 

 My question the was that, if indeed that was their motivation why would they want remain and outsource some of their power to the EU, I wold assume that they would want to "brexit" and consolidate power.

PS: I have no skin on the game, I am American and read this threads only to get better informed on the subject. 

 

Quite a lot of them are or hope to be involved in the EU gravy train.

[aright]

53 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So we are in agreemnt - Cambridge boffins pessimistic about effects of Brexit.

You are grabbing at straws. Wishing and hoping and dreaming...................

 

Before the vote, George Osborne published controversial ‘Treasury analysis’ claiming that quitting the EU would leave every family £4,300 worse off along with an ‘immediate’ recession and half a million people out of work. 

But Cambridge Professor Graham Gudgin, who launched a website last month intended to counter Remain ‘propaganda’, said: ‘The short-term forecasts of the Treasury and OECD, which have turned out to be wrong, have further damaged the already weak public confidence in economists’ contributions to public debate. 

 

+2

•  

Before the vote, George Osborne published controversial ‘Treasury analysis’

'Our paper is not necessarily an argument in favour of Brexit. But it will cast doubt on traditional economic modelling and it does question the ability of the economics profession to provide high quality policy analysis on issues of national importance.’

His co-author, Ken Coutts, said ‘the academic profession needs to reconsider... the relevance of its current attachment to theory based on unrealistic assumptions’. ‘The Civil Service should also consider, when undertaking technical economic research, that it has a duty to be transparent in the methods it uses and to discuss with outside economists the strengths and weaknesses of the analysis as is customary in academic debate,’ he writes.

The report says predictions from bodies such as the OECD and IMF suffer from ‘similar flaws’ which exaggerate the negative impact of Brexit. 

At the end of October the jobless rate stood at 4.3 per cent – less than half the figure in the eurozone, which has been blighted by high unemployment.

 

My favorite contribution

 

The report also challenges the claim that membership of the EU and its predecessor, the European Economic Community, was good for economic growth. It says GDP per person has been slower since 1972 than in the previous decades.

 

Conclusions were likely to be the result of ‘unconscious bias’, ‘political expectations’ and ‘group think’ among the authors, they claim. And they say the Treasury’s failure to discuss its work – and subject it to outside scrutiny – is ‘unacceptable’.

 

 

Of course if you prefer twitter.......................


 

Video playing bottom right...

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by aright

[dundee48]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I read this on Twitter (@martindvz)

 

Saying Brexit wil make us poorer:

97% of academics

All of big business (CBI)

Every former PM alive

IMF

World Bank

Every major bank

HM Treasury

 

Saying Brexit is great:

Boris Johnson (proven liar)

Nigel Farage (proven liar)

JR Mogg (proven liar)

The exact same institutions said the same about Scottish independence,you also believed them then didn`t you?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

I read this. Funny old world isn't it.

• 
   

 

 

 

Gloomy Treasury forecasts that predict Brexit will be an economic disaster are ‘flawed’, Cambridge researchers warn today.

A study by the university’s Centre for Business Research raises serious questions over predictions by government officials, academic bodies, the IMF and the OECD.

They say most estimates of the economic impact of the Leave vote are based on modelling that exaggerates the negative effects. The study, published today, is titled How the Economics Profession Got it Wrong on Brexit and says Treasury forecasts before and after the referendum were too pessimistic.

Researchers say the assumption about the degree of uncertainty caused by the Brexit vote was arbitrary and wrong

 

Published over a year ago? That one?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-favoured-economic-study-shot-down-by-other-trade-economists-a7519596.html

 

Gudgin debunked. (Pin or fish?)

Edited March 11, 2018 by Grouse

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite a lot of them are or hope to be involved in the EU gravy train.

So you are saying that the EU would be a richer market and those who want to remain want a part of a richer market but you want the UK to be a poorer market so that those sleazy politicians would not pilfer as much?

Isn't that a bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Published over a year ago? That one?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-favoured-economic-study-shot-down-by-other-trade-economists-a7519596.html

 

Gudgin debunked. (Pin or fish?)

Keep up lad keep up

 

Brainy Britons unite to SMASH Remoaner claims that 'Brexiteers are idiots and like Nazis'

BREXIT voters have been slammed as “idiots” or likened to “Nazi war criminals” and a series of leading professionals have united to change the “commonplace misconception” that “undermines democratic legitimacy”, a new group have revealed.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/920454/brexit-news-eu-brexit-concentration-camps-academics-graham-gudgin-briefings-for-brexit

 

The mission statement for the group states: "It has become commonplace to associate support for Brexit with low levels of education and information and to claim that reason and evidence inevitably lead to a pro-EU view. This is simply not true.

 

The group is said to include economists, lawyers, historians, scientists, and a former head of MI6.

[dundee48]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

 I agree about the "Dwinky" and wish I could join you , but I am not understanding you , and it might not be entirely or even at all, your fault.

My initial comment was that if indeed most of the politicians that that are involved in the issue and that I assume know more about the issues involved than both you and me are for" remain" it should tell as something. To which it was replied that Yes it should tell as that they are money grabbing and self serving. 

 My question the was that, if indeed that was their motivation why would they want remain and outsource some of their power to the EU, I wold assume that they would want to "brexit" and consolidate power.

PS: I have no skin on the game, I am American and read this threads only to get better informed on the subject. 

Hahaha,another neutral who only questions brexiteers.

[dundee48]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 8:25 AM, stevenl said:

Maybe time to stop pointing at others? The brexiteers have had plenty of time to come up with a plan, but nothing. There was no plan to begin with, and there still is no plan.

Hahaha,another neutral who only questions brexiteers.

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

Hahaha,another neutral who only questions brexiteers.

Foolish to ask those questions of people who have no answers.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite a lot of them are or hope to be involved in the EU gravy train.

Yes. That is what I implied.

[sirineou]

37 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

Hahaha,another neutral who only questions brexiteers.

I am not neutral, IMO brexit will be a major mistake for the UK ,

but it is an uniform opinion.

And since I don't have skin  on the game it does not affect me one way or another. But I do have many British friends, all very nice people , and would hate to see you all go through this. 

   I have said it before and I will say it again , regardless of how this thing goes , it will not end well for you. Either way there will be  a significant portion  of your population that will be unhappy. 

You all better hope that Brexit is a spectacular success, that will cause the remainers to  reconsider their position., otherwise kiss the  U in the UK good buy. ( IMO )

I sincerely hope I am wrong. 

 

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am not neutral, IMO brexit will be a major mistake for the UK ,

but it is an uniform opinion.

And since I don't have skin  on the game it does not affect me one way or another. But I do have many British friends, all very nice people , and would hate to see you all go through this. 

   I have said it before and I will say it again , regardless of how this thing goes , it will not end well for you. Either way there will be  a significant portion  of your population that will be unhappy. 

You all better hope that Brexit is a spectacular success, that will cause the remainers to  reconsider their position., otherwise kiss the  U in the UK good buy. ( IMO )

I sincerely hope I am wrong. 

 

 

 

I would love to meet you sirineou...I am a nice Brit who voted for, and firmly believes in, BREXIT.

 

I could try and explain why you can have 2 nice Brits who are poles apart on their views on BREXIT  - but probably voted with the same intentions I.e. the best outcome for the future of the UK.

 

 

[dundee48]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am not neutral, IMO brexit will be a major mistake for the UK ,

but it is an uniform opinion.

And since I don't have skin  on the game it does not affect me one way or another. But I do have many British friends, all very nice people , and would hate to see you all go through this. 

   I have said it before and I will say it again , regardless of how this thing goes , it will not end well for you. Either way there will be  a significant portion  of your population that will be unhappy. 

You all better hope that Brexit is a spectacular success, that will cause the remainers to  reconsider their position., otherwise kiss the  U in the UK good buy. ( IMO )

I sincerely hope I am wrong. 

 

Do you mean uninformed opinion because I don`t know what a uniform opinion is?

A referendum was held,the majority voted to leave.The "significant portion of the population who are unhappy"will have to get over themselves and try to get the best possible deal for the UK,if they are unwilling to do this then they can kiss my a#s.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite a lot of them are or hope to be involved in the EU gravy train.

So you are saying that the EU would be a richer market and those who want to remain want a part of a richer market but you want the UK to be a poorer market so that those sleazy politicians would not pilfer as much?

Isn't that a bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

Why did you post this as a reply to me? Your post has no connection to the point I made, which was about EU jobs for the boys.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I would love to meet you sirineou...I am a nice Brit who voted for, and firmly believes in, BREXIT.

 

I could try and explain why you can have 2 nice Brits who are poles apart on their views on BREXIT  - but probably voted with the same intentions I.e. the best outcome for the future of the UK.

 

 

No doubt that you are both very nice and that you both love your country equally as much and want the best for it, when I said you are all very nice, I ment ALL   

IMO  if brexit goes ahead half the population will be unhappy and if it does not, the other half will be unhappy. Regardless how it goes I will not be a good thing.

It is my hope that whatever happens brexit, or remain, will be so successful  that the other half will reconsider, if not I am afraid you are all in for a rough ride,

 

1 hour ago, dundee48 said:

Do you mean uninformed opinion because I don`t know what a uniform opinion is?

A referendum was held,the majority voted to leave.The "significant portion of the population who are unhappy"will have to get over themselves and try to get the best possible deal for the UK,if they are unwilling to do this then they can kiss my a#s.

I don't consider 51.9% of a 72.2% participation to be a significant portion of the population for such an important decision.  It is barely a majority of the 72.2% and not an overwhelming percentage of the overall population. IMO it is raisor thin. 

I hope things work out well for the UK in the event of a brexit,  but I think that in the event that they do not , you should expect a straightened separatist movement  in Scotland and perhaps in Ireland if there is a problem with a hard border.

This is what I think . I have being wrong in the past, and I am willing to consider the possibility that I will again.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I am not neutral, IMO brexit will be a major mistake for the UK ,

but it is an uniform opinion.

And since I don't have skin  on the game it does not affect me one way or another. But I do have many British friends, all very nice people , and would hate to see you all go through this. 

   I have said it before and I will say it again , regardless of how this thing goes , it will not end well for you. Either way there will be  a significant portion  of your population that will be unhappy. 

You all better hope that Brexit is a spectacular success, that will cause the remainers to  reconsider their position., otherwise kiss the  U in the UK good buy. ( IMO )

I sincerely hope I am wrong. 

 

 

You appear to be quite out of your depth in these brexit discussions, and your speculations are even more wild than Project Fear's own discredited ones. Once all this is done and dusted, nearly everybody in the UK will just move on and get on with their lives, as they always do. I'm surprised that you haven't noticed this British trait of stoicism in your friends.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You appear to be quite out of your depth in these brexit discussions, and your speculations are even more wild than Project Fear's own discredited ones. Once all this is done and dusted, nearly everybody in the UK will just move on and get on with their lives, as they always do. I'm surprised that you haven't noticed this British trait of stoicism in your friends.

You might be right

Good luck to all of you

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

You might be right

Good luck to all of you

 

Thank you.

[dundee48]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

No doubt that you are both very nice and that you both love your country equally as much and want the best for it, when I said you are all very nice, I ment ALL   

IMO  if brexit goes ahead half the population will be unhappy and if it does not, the other half will be unhappy. Regardless how it goes I will not be a good thing.

It is my hope that whatever happens brexit, or remain, will be so successful  that the other half will reconsider, if not I am afraid you are all in for a rough ride,

 

I don't consider 51.9% of a 72.2% participation to be a significant portion of the population for such an important decision.  It is barely a majority of the 72.2% and not an overwhelming percentage of the overall population. IMO it is raisor thin. 

I hope things work out well for the UK in the event of a brexit,  but I think that in the event that they do not , you should expect a straightened separatist movement  in Scotland and perhaps in Ireland if there is a problem with a hard border.

This is what I think . I have being wrong in the past, and I am willing to consider the possibility that I will again.

It`s completely irrelevant whether you consider 72.2%(you just searched google didn`t you)to be a significant portion or not,the date of the referendum was 23 rd June 2016,everyone knew this.If the other 27.8% can`t be arsed getting out of their beds to vote then tough titties.

Brexit won,get over it.

[sirineou]

14 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

It`s completely irrelevant whether you consider 72.2%(you just searched google didn`t you)to be a significant portion or not,the date of the referendum was 23 rd June 2016,everyone knew this.If the other 27.8% can`t be arsed getting out of their beds to vote then tough titties.

Brexit won,get over it.

 Of course I googled it what do you think I memorise every statistic in the world?

But I knew it was close.  The point that I made is not concerning the 27.8% that did not show up , it is conceivable that even if they did show up they would have  brock the same way as the 72.2% that showed up. The significant number is the 51.9%  which leaves 48,1 not voting for a Brexit. In itself mathematically not a significant separation you would agree.

But if I was to google it regionally, and I won't because I suspect you already know the answer

you will find that  Scotland and Northern Ireland voted in a significantly different way. 

What do you think will happen if your side forced them  to act in a different way that they voted?

Do you think they will be as upset as you will be if you were forced to act in a different way that you voted?

It is really not a very complex concept,

And what do you think will happen in these regions if you took them down a road they did not want to go and the sh#t hit the fan when you did?

Do you think they will say "oh well" "Jolly good" "stiff upper lip"?

As they say in Thailand "Up to you". 

 

 

 

[juice777]

It`s completely irrelevant whether you consider 72.2%(you just searched google didn`t you)to be a significant portion or not,the date of the referendum was 23 rd June 2016,everyone knew this.If the other 27.8% can`t be arsed getting out of their beds to vote then tough titties.

Brexit won,get over it.

I love it when people say we won get over it like we have just lost a football match or something. Like we are going to just get over the possibility of the worst thing ever to happen to our country in most of our lifetimes for no apparent good reasons. And jump right into it with no proper plan. would you walk into a burning building at 8pm if you agreed to meet some in there no you would wait till the fire was put out. If this happens it will be the worst thing ever to happen to us and that is getting more apparent as time goes on. Future generations are going to despise people who voted for brixit and I can't blame them.But hay at least we will have blue passports back even if it wasn't a European law to change the colour and I swear my dad's passport was black it certainly wasn't that shade of blue.

 

I am no fan of Vince Cable but he has hit the Nail on the head here. You should all hang your heads in shame there is still time to reverse this madness.

 

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

 

Brexit: Older Leave voters nostalgic for 'white' Britain, says Cable - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43364331

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[simple1]

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 Of course I googled it what do you think I memorise every statistic in the world?

But I knew it was close.  The point that I made is not concerning the 27.8% that did not show up , it is conceivable that even if they did show up they would have  brock the same way as the 72.2% that showed up. The significant number is the 51.9%  which leaves 48,1 not voting for a Brexit. In itself mathematically not a significant separation you would agree.

But if I was to google it regionally, and I won't because I suspect you already know the answer

you will find that  Scotland and Northern Ireland voted in a significantly different way. 

What do you think will happen if your side forced them  to act in a different way that they voted?

Do you think they will be as upset as you will be if you were forced to act in a different way that you voted?

It is really not a very complex concept,

And what do you think will happen in these regions if you took them down a road they did not want to go and the sh#t hit the fan when you did?

Do you think they will say "oh well" "Jolly good" "stiff upper lip"?

As they say in Thailand "Up to you". 

 

Likely duplicating prior comments, but worth repeating. Unfortunately there were false claims made by both the Remainers and the Leaves. What is very telling the liar Farage, who heavily promoted Brexit, resigned when won.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-resigns-resignation-ukip-leader-brexit-twitter-latest-reaction-coward-a7118846.html

 

On balance the majority of false claims were made by the Leave campaign. If the truth had been correctly positioned it is claimed the Remainers would have been in the majority. As a UK citizen, when a referendum of this importance is put into play, IMO, a requirement for a large majority vote should have been in-place e.g. 75%

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-voters-poll-mislead-leave-campaign-nhs-claims-lies-remain-win-second-referendum-a7905786.html

 

 

[inThailand]

A classic decision making error. Make a major decision with incomplete or false information and then wonder why it's gone tits up.

Edited March 11, 2018 by inThailand

[juice777]

Likely duplicating prior comments, but worth repeating. Unfortunately there were false claims made by both the Remainers and the Leaves. What is very telling the liar Farage, who heavily promoted Brexit, resigned when won.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-resigns-resignation-ukip-leader-brexit-twitter-latest-reaction-coward-a7118846.html
 
On balance the majority of false claims were made by the Leave campaign. If the truth had been correctly positioned it is claimed the Remainers would have been in the majority. As a UK citizen, when a referendum of this importance is put into play, IMO, a requirement for a large majority vote should have been in-place e.g. 75%
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-voters-poll-mislead-leave-campaign-nhs-claims-lies-remain-win-second-referendum-a7905786.html
 
 

Not to mention the Russians messing in it. Will of people what a absolute joke. If more people right now want to stay then another referendum is not unreasonable.Do you all remember old Nigel boy saying he would want another vote if it was close?

Well he ant saying that now especially as he quit and making a few quid as radio Hoast.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, juice777 said:

I love it when people say we won get over it like we have just lost a football match or something. Like we are going to just get over the possibility of the worst thing ever to happen to our country in most of our lifetimes for no apparent good reasons. And jump right into it with no proper plan. would you walk into a burning building at 8pm if you agreed to meet some in there no you would wait till the fire was put out. If this happens it will be the worst thing ever to happen to us and that is getting more apparent as time goes on. Future generations are going to despise people who voted for brixit and I can't blame them.But hay at least we will have blue passports back even if it wasn't a European law to change the colour and I swear my dad's passport was black it certainly wasn't that shade of blue.

 

I am no fan of Vince Cable but he has hit the Nail on the head here. You should all hang your heads in shame there is still time to reverse this madness.

 

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

 

Brexit: Older Leave voters nostalgic for 'white' Britain, says Cable - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43364331

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Vince Cable should hang his head in shame for many reasons. But his latest attempt to play the racism card on brexit rules him out of the debate completely. Which is entirely appropriate for a man who pretends to 'lead' an irrelevant political party whilst spending most of his time trying to foment discontent amongst people who aren't even members of his own political party. What a sad excuse for a politician Vince Cable has ended up being.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, juice777 said:

Not to mention the Russians messing in it. Will of people what a absolute joke. If more people right now want to stay then another referendum is not unreasonable.Do you all remember old Nigel boy saying he would want another vote if it was close?

Well he ant saying that now especially as he quit and making a few quid as radio Hoast.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

 

"Not to mention the Russians messing in it. Will of people what a absolute joke."

 

Mods, isn't it about time that deliberate misinformation, as highlighted above is, dealt with?

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uk-brexit-facebook/facebook-says-finds-no-new-evidence-russia-interfered-in-brexit-referendum-idUSKCN1GC309

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/feb/08/youtube-says-no-evidence-of-russian-interference-in-brexit-vote