soalbundy Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, nauseus said: I have wondered how some people find stuff like that out. Youtube, was a 3 hour programm about the power of the rich elite starting from before the WW1 (that really made them money). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: But only "smart" when it comes to his own, personal interests... He clearly couldn't give a damn about the opinion of the constituency he is supposed to represent... You really should read up on our own political system. This is what gets me; people spout about all sorts of issues but don't know the basics. You may wish MPs were there just to represent the majority view of their constituents. They are not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Grouse said: That's an excellent example of representative democracy in action. Change the system if you don't like it! An example perhaps but certainly not an excellent one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Grouse said: You really should read up on our own political system. This is what gets me; people spout about all sorts of issues but don't know the basics. You may wish MPs were there just to represent the majority view of their constituents. They are not. There is lots of wishing that the world was different from the one we have involved in brexit . Sadly for them all their wishes won't make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 46 minutes ago, tebee said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustee_model_of_representation tebee Why are you posting a wiki link to the 1700's ? ?? The UK does not have a Trustee model of representation. Drag your @ss into modern times Here is the modern day version. Quote The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ Now stop making woodentops look intelligent. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: You really should read up on our own political system. This is what gets me; people spout about all sorts of issues but don't know the basics. You may wish MPs were there just to represent the majority view of their constituents. They are not. Reminds me of a line from one of Gilbert and Sullivan's songs :- 'He always voted for his party's call and never thought of thinking for himself at all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: You and grouse are of one mind when it comes to parliamentary sovereignty. You both think it means ignoring the votes of the electorate - even after one of the very rare referendums - and the govt. promising to enact the wishes of the electorate! Nobody is saying that MPs should ignore their constituents. The MP should listen carefully to his consitituents and take a decision based on his conscience as to what is in their best interests. All of them. Did your mum always give you what you wanted or do you think she acted in your best interests and went to Bingo instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Grouse said: You really should read up on our own political system. This is what gets me; people spout about all sorts of issues but don't know the basics. You really should not talk about yourself in that manner. Quote The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons. https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ That interest would be a majority vote within their constituency. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nauseus Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Grouse said: You really should read up on our own political system. This is what gets me; people spout about all sorts of issues but don't know the basics. You may wish MPs were there just to represent the majority view of their constituents. They are not. From: https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-information-office/fymp/yaympenglish.pdf The Role of an MP MPs have responsibilities to three main groups: their constituents, Parliament and their political party. One MP is elected to the House of Commons by each of the UK’s 600+ constituencies. MPs’ duties in Parliament include participating in debates and voting on legislation and other matters. They may also be members of committees examining new laws or the work of government departments. Some have a role as a minister in government or a spokesperson in opposition. MPs can help their constituents by advising on problems (particularly those that arise from the work of government departments), representing the concerns of their constituents in Parliament and acting as a figurehead for the local area. MPs usually support their party by voting with its leadership in the House of Commons and acting as a representative for the party in their constituency. If the Rt Hon Member for Bracknell couldn't perform 2/3 of his roles then he probably should have not stood in the first place. He did the right thing to resign but this does not help his constituents. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 minute ago, nauseus said: From: https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-information-office/fymp/yaympenglish.pdf The Role of an MP MPs have responsibilities to three main groups: their constituents, Parliament and their political party. One MP is elected to the House of Commons by each of the UK’s 600+ constituencies. MPs’ duties in Parliament include participating in debates and voting on legislation and other matters. They may also be members of committees examining new laws or the work of government departments. Some have a role as a minister in government or a spokesperson in opposition. MPs can help their constituents by advising on problems (particularly those that arise from the work of government departments), representing the concerns of their constituents in Parliament and acting as a figurehead for the local area. MPs usually support their party by voting with its leadership in the House of Commons and acting as a representative for the party in their constituency. If the Rt Hon Member for Bracknell couldn't perform 2/3 of his roles then he probably should have not stood in the first place. He did the right thing to resign but this does not help his constituents. I hope one of those highly intelligent remainers will come along and point out in the above, or here https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ the words: '' Voting with their conscience '' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, soalbundy said: Youtube, was a 3 hour programm about the power of the rich elite starting from before the WW1 (that really made them money). Must be true then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post billd766 Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, tebee said: And it's still my democratic right to oppose any policy I do not agree with. Don't tell us, tell your MP assuming that you have the right to vote in the UK They can effect change far more easily than we can. I wrote to my MP last week asking about Brexit. Where do you stand politically on the Brexit question and where do you stand personally? Her response was As a politician, I am lucky that my personal and political positions are one and the same. I believe that as an MP I should follow my constituents vote. As they voted to leave the European Union, I am duty bound to follow this, even if I myself voted remain. With current amendments likely to undermine the Government’s ability to negotiate the best deal, I will not be supporting them. Her constituency voted to leave. Edited June 16, 2018 by billd766 edit for bad spelling after I had posted 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, tebee said: You need to have standards - and agencies to enforce those standards - if you want to export anywhere. ??? Diesel scandals Egg scandals Beef scandals Yeah, great in theory, totally different in practice. The EU is great at issuing dic-tats, not much good at enforcing them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Renegade said: Is it possible that you could stop talking garbage ? https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ Please think about this more deeply MPs are there to represent the interests of everyone in the constituency. The pros, the antis, the don't cares, the disadvantaged, the deranged. All of you. What do you want? Hanging? Free beer? Castration of paedophiles? I think the UK system works well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I thought that parliamentary piece was rather facile and dumbed down. It's about time we were all treated as adults frankly. Edited June 16, 2018 by Grouse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 7 hours ago, soalbundy said: Is that all you've got ? I'm a troll foll de roll I'm a troll foll de roll and I'll eat you for my supper The 3 billygoats Gruff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Grouse said: MPs are there to represent the interests of everyone in the constituency. The pros, the antis, the don't cares, the disadvantaged, the deranged. All of you. All of you ? Are you different from me ? Or do you speak as a non - Brit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, Grouse said: The MP should listen carefully to his consitituents and take a decision based on his conscience as to what is in their best interests. All of them. So manifestos mean nothing. Say anything you want to get elected then listen to what your constituents say but most importantly be true to yourself and vote according to your conscience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Grouse said: I thought that parliamentary piece was rather facile and dumbed down. It's about time we were all treated as adults frankly. This one by tebee ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustee_model_of_representation Absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, tebee said: You seem to misunderstand what the term represent means in this context - they are there to represent the constituents interests, not their views. They are assumed to have a better understanding of things than the man on the street - lets face it, it's their job to understand how government works. Because of this they are given the choice and responsibility to vote as they see fit to secure the best interests of those constituents. This is the principal of representative democracy - they are not there merely to parrot the views of those constituents.- if they where how was hanging ever abolished, when there is a majority of the country in favor of it? Nicely put! Astonishing that so many of our countrymen don't understand! I put it down to "secondary modern education" Ill bet they all understand the off side rule though!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, soalbundy said: There isn't even a bedsted let alone a bed of nails. It's an Ikea bed, the packet has been ordered but all that has arrived are the assembly instructions and nobody really understands them.? Did you mean this sort of bedstead? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, tebee said: Or simply vote them out at the next election - that is how democracy works in this country. Which country would that be for you? The UK, France or Thailand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, The Renegade said: If anyone misunderstands it is you. You are correct and everyone is wrong ? A condition that appears to have inflicted Grouse also. It is medical, it is called delusion. https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ Even the Governments own website is wrong ?? I assure you that my understanding of this is correct. You may not like this system but I am telling you the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, aright said: Hanging was likely a free vote not governed by a manifesto. It would be interesting to see the stats on it though. If the will of the people can be overridden by conscience and personal views you might just as well have the computer randomly pick 650 names and send them to Parliament This is truly amazing! So many people don't understand our "constitution" Explains a great deal sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, Grouse said: I assure you that my understanding of this is correct. You may not like this system but I am telling you the truth. Of course your understanding is correct. Who should I believe, Grouse's understanding or the UK Governments website ? https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-information-office/fymp/yaympenglish.pdf https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ ??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, billd766 said: Which country would that be for you? The UK, France or Thailand? Belgium I think, Brussels to be precise. After all, he claimed to have a vote at the EU level, which was quickly backtracked on when questioned. Edited June 16, 2018 by The Renegade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, aright said: On the abortion issue, lets suppose an MP is opposed to it perhaps on religious or moral grounds but he represents a constituency which is 70% pro abortion. In an Abortion bill how should he vote? On his conscience. Clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 49 minutes ago, The Renegade said: You really should not talk about yourself in that manner. https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/mps/ That interest would be a majority vote within their constituency. Not correct. An MP is elected not on a majority of votes, but largest vote within a constituency. However a party forming a government should be able to command a majority or at least command a majority of MPs voting in the event of a vote of confidence. A minority government may continue until such time as it loses the confidence of the House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just now, SheungWan said: Not correct. An MP is elected not on a majority of votes, That would be a brilliant comment. If we were actually talking about electing MP's. The curse of the so called highly educated remainer strikes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, The Renegade said: You're a really funny guy, a real hoot Now go away and learn how to spell bedstead, instead of trying to be a wiseguy. You've been doing well today. Don't spoil the discussion with complaints about spellinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Renegade Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Grouse said: You've been doing well today. Unlike some, again ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts