Syntax

[tgeezer]

Here’s something where we might find interesting differences among us in parsing, failing which mine will have to be accepted as correct. 

My Facebook has a post to the organisers of the the Supanburi Marathon before the event. 

รบกวนสอบถามครับผม ... ไม่ทราบว่ามีการออก Booth จำหน่ายสินค้าหรือเปล่า หากมีไม่ทราบยังพอมีพื้นที่บ้างไหม และติดต่อท่านใดครับผม 

 

 ’ 

I think that it says: Excuse (me)for asking sir. (I)do not know whether (you) are giving Booths or not,  if there are (I) do not know if there are still enough places left or not and whom to contact Sir. 

 

 

Now that I have started this, I see that it is rather complicated and bound to be contradicted but that is alright with me.

The subject of the verbs is the writer. 

 ครับผม is very respectful  ‘Sir

 

ยังพอ is interesting it says still sufficient, ยังมีพอ is how I would write it but if I consider the definition of ยังไหว ว. ยังพอสู้ไหม still enough ‘fight in you’ or not. คล้อยหลัง ว. ผ่านพันไปยังพอเห็นได้ เช่น เขาเพิ่งเดินคล้อยหลังไปไม่นาน , ยังพอมี can be seen as modifying the following verb. In the case of สู้ and มี I see it saying “still verb enough” making ยังมีพอ Thaigrit. 

 

ไหม means หรือไม่ which is important for me but probably most people are happy to see it as ‘?’. 

I notice that ท่านใด unspecified person might be replaced by ใคร. Is ท่านใด more polite and doesn’t just say ‘anybody’. 

 

   

 

[Sweet memory 80s]

ท่านใด is more polite form usually used when you speak in public. To discard subject ( I ) is common ,not regarded as wrong but may be depend on the situation. 

 

ยังมีพอ sounds like "still enough or almost abundant" but ยังพอมี is "almost run out ,merely enough"

ไหม is  less formal than หรือไม่ and becomes ไม๊ for spoken language.

 

May be not "You're giving booth or not" but "Is there still any booth/ space available or not ?" He did not directly ask to the second party/reader so he asked who should be the point of contact.

[tgeezer]

Thanks Sweet memory 80s. 

The topic is syntax so I would value your opinion on that. I have done my best to interpret by separating the sentences as if they stood alone. 

 

 

Are รบกวนรสสอบถาม ครับผม and ไม่ทราบว่า devices making the request less blunt ?  ไม่ทราบ could be อยากรู้ว่า or just มี....ไหม “ resulting in: “Dear sir, Are there going to be ‘Booths’ ?   

 

The next sentence starts with หากมี which seems to me to confirm my interpretation of the first sentence.  Which brings me to ยังพอมี compared with ยังมีพอ.  I think that I may have to take this as individual parlance. The translations of ยง, พอ, into English force the pattern ยังมีพอ whereas the RID favours ยังพอมี. 

 

I have never seen ไม๊ before and since this is written in conversational Thai, would I be correct in assuming that the writer doesn’t agree with you on the modification of ไหม?

 . 

 

ไม๊,  although it doesn’t make sense grammatically,  seems to be a device to prevent ไหม being pronounced ไม้* .  Is it of great importance in Thai? The reason I ask is that นำ้ is well established as a long vowel but never written น้าม, people just say it that way. 

edit: * มั้ย is an alternative. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by tgeezer

[Sweet memory 80s]

On 3/2/2018 at 10:29 AM, tgeezer said:

Are รบกวนรสสอบถาม ครับผม and ไม่ทราบว่า devices making the request less blunt ?  ไม่ทราบ could be อยากรู้ว่า or just มี....ไหม “ resulting in: “Dear sir, Are there going to be ‘Booths’ ?   

 

Yes the writer tries to compose more polite form of sentence for addressing someone who he  considered has more potential than him. This is not about the syntax but rather how to fit the language in to thai social ( the way thais interact to others).

 

On 3/2/2018 at 10:29 AM, tgeezer said:

I have never seen ไม๊ before and since this is written in conversational Thai, would I be correct in assuming that the writer doesn’t agree with you on the modification of ไหม?

 . 

 

ไม๊,  although it doesn’t make sense grammatically,  seems to be a device to prevent ไหม being pronounced ไม้* .  Is it of great importance in Thai? The reason I ask is that นำ้ is well established as a long vowel but never written น้าม, people just say it that way. 

edit: * มั้ย is an alternative. 

  In the real world nobody has ever say "ไหม" only "ไม๊" Same sound as "ไม้" but shorter ,exactly comply to writing form, not as น้ำ. If you say ไหม ,thais ( alls including Isaan and Nuea) can immediately figure out that you're not fluent in speaking Thai.

Since this word is not registered as formal so no matter what form of writing you do ไม๊ or มั๊ย.

 

And because this is a written sentence, the writer may concern about the politeness so he use a more formal term for writing ( since he asking something from someone he has to be looked less ขัดใจ, ขัดหู ขัดตา of that person ).

[tgeezer]

 My question was about syntax which I understand to be the formation of sentences, specifically the first sentence but no matter,  I was just curious. 

 

Now since you have made an issue of  ไม๊ . 

 Here is a reply on Pantip to an enquiry on the subject: 

ไหม ภาษาเขียน สำเนียงกรุงเทพออกเสียง มั้ย คนกรุงเทพชอบออกเสียงจัตวาเป็นเสียงตรีครับ ฉัน>ชั้น ถ้าออกเสียงฉั้นไหมมันคงเหน่อกระมัง ! 

This would seem to indicate that not everyone shares your opinion. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by tgeezer
Incidentally, My ack of fluency doesn't keep me awake at night!

[tgeezer]

เหน่อกระมัง could have been written เหน่อมัง I wonder if the fact that it is written in full indicates that the writer is being sarcastic in saying that Bangkok people are so ignorant that they consider the correct pronunciation to be dialect. 

[Sweet memory 80s]

I'm too weary of เจ้าหนูจำไม