Irrigation

[btate]

I have to concede to Chownah on the slow filter, he's got one in operation.

I thought the "slow" was the important part, for bacterial action.

Here's a good link for drip irrigation, inc flow rate, filters etc.

http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/

Maizefarmer, I think you said you used drip for makua in buckets, what filtration did you use ?

Pond Life

Thanks for the link, has some really good info for iJiots like myself.

Bt

[Somtham]

We may have stumbled upon the most "economical irrigation" I've seen so far. We've been looking for some retirement property and came a cross a place literally "at the end of the road" up in the mountains with no electricity other than a single solar panel, no phones, no city water. This place sits on a hilltop with mountains to the east and west. There is a natural mountain spring that flows on the western range. The owner tapped into the spring with 2" PVC pipe and ran the pipe to his property I guess at least a km+ away as the crow flies. The spring has enough head to continuosly fill a staked ring tank which then feeds 2 fish ponds and a sprinkler/drip system to water 6 rai of lam yai trees.

Other than the initial cost of the pipe this guy will have free water as long as the spring doesn't dry up. He's been running for 8 years so far.

rgds

[keg]

I have been reading this info on irrigation and it all seems to geared towards drip irrigation. I just visited my GF's village in the lower Loei Province and it seems that many of the farmers have changed some of their fields to grass and running cattle. Now it is the dry season and the cows are all standing around in the pastures waiting to be fed as the grass has dried up. They are mostly feeding the cows cut and carry from the river, corn ears after the corn is stripped, dried potatoes, and even a little bit of hay. As mentioned above there is a flowing river running by many of these farms and nobody that I cuould see was irrigating. My question is if you have that continuous source of water next to your land is there an economical way to irrigate the grassland that would hold up to cattle tromping around in the same field? Obviously I know expense is a big issue and they could not afford any elaborate nor large irrigation systems.

Even though I'm not farming anything and live in the city in Udorn, all the info on the farming thread has been a great read. Thanks for all the info.

[altman]

I have been reading this info on irrigation and it all seems to geared towards drip irrigation. I just visited my GF's village in the lower Loei Province and it seems that many of the farmers have changed some of their fields to grass and running cattle. Now it is the dry season and the cows are all standing around in the pastures waiting to be fed as the grass has dried up. They are mostly feeding the cows cut and carry from the river, corn ears after the corn is stripped, dried potatoes, and even a little bit of hay. As mentioned above there is a flowing river running by many of these farms and nobody that I cuould see was irrigating. My question is if you have that continuous source of water next to your land is there an economical way to irrigate the grassland that would hold up to cattle tromping around in the same field? Obviously I know expense is a big issue and they could not afford any elaborate nor large irrigation systems.

Even though I'm not farming anything and live in the city in Udorn, all the info on the farming thread has been a great read. Thanks for all the info.

in reference to this:

can one just drop a pipe into a stream next to one's property and start pumping water? are there limits? are there public domain issues?

[ozzydom]

I have been reading this info on irrigation and it all seems to geared towards drip irrigation. I just visited my GF's village in the lower Loei Province and it seems that many of the farmers have changed some of their fields to grass and running cattle. Now it is the dry season and the cows are all standing around in the pastures waiting to be fed as the grass has dried up. They are mostly feeding the cows cut and carry from the river, corn ears after the corn is stripped, dried potatoes, and even a little bit of hay. As mentioned above there is a flowing river running by many of these farms and nobody that I cuould see was irrigating. My question is if you have that continuous source of water next to your land is there an economical way to irrigate the grassland that would hold up to cattle tromping around in the same field? Obviously I know expense is a big issue and they could not afford any elaborate nor large irrigation systems.

Even though I'm not farming anything and live in the city in Udorn, all the info on the farming thread has been a great read. Thanks for all the info.

in reference to this:

can one just drop a pipe into a stream next to one's property and start pumping water? are there limits? are there public domain issues?

I DO, am pretty sure there is no such thing as water allocations here in LoS,I did initially ask the village headman was it ok and she looked at me all stupid so I interpretted that as OK.

[Somtham]

[quote name='keg' post='1171908'

in reference to this:

can one just drop a pipe into a stream next to one's property and start pumping water? are there limits? are there public domain issues?

I DO, am pretty sure there is no such thing as water allocations here in LoS,I did initially ask the village headman was it ok and she looked at me all stupid so I interpretted that as OK.

I see quite a few pipes in the Ping River where people are pulling water for farms, fish, whatever. Not sure what the laws are but it is certainly a common practice.

rgds

[Somtham]

Yesterday I was watching a guy layout a 15 rai plot for growing makua. He put down "irrigation tape" under the plastic. Does anybody have experience with this drip method and how does it compare functionally to button drippers? Cost was B1,500 per 400m roll.

rgds

[Tim207]

Yesterday I was watching a guy layout a 15 rai plot for growing makua. He put down "irrigation tape" under the plastic. Does anybody have experience with this drip method and how does it compare functionally to button drippers? Cost was B1,500 per 400m roll.

rgds

While looking into this tape I came across a retailers website I found interesting. There is a lot of info about different drip irrigation supplies and systems. http://dripirrigation.com/

[Maizefarmer]

Altman/Ozzydom - you can suck as much water as you like out of rivers without getting permission from anyone. The 2 exceptions are:

- if you place the pump or feedline on someone else's land - ask

- if you are sucking so much as to impact what becomes avalible downstream for other users (headman will pay you a visit)

Otherwsie no prob's go for it.

Somtham

Lying palstic sheeting can be a great idea

- keeps the soil moist and reduces the amount of irrigation you have to do.

- also stops the weeds growing around the plant (so reduces labour).

So the plastic idea is fine on a seasonal basis - personally though, I don't like irrgation tape with intergrated drippers, for the following reasons:

- intergated drippers are very fine: they clog easily and 2 problems arise from that - go back in 3 weeks time and you wil find he has had to lift (or indeed tear) the plastic away in many places to unblock drippers that have become blocked (absolutely garunteed if you can't see an inline plate filter somewhere).

- blocked drippers often only discovered as blocked once the plant starts dying (unless of course the plastic is clear - and or you have the time to walk round all 15 rai every day at watering time to establish the soil is staying damp).

- once irrigation tape drippers are blocked they be difficult if not impossible to unblock properly. Unlike drippers in black 1/2" - 1" flexi tubing in which you can change damaged/blocked drippers - you can't do that with irrigation tape that has intergrated drippers.

- you need to add an inline 160 -220mesh plate filter to prevent longterm blocking of the tape type drippers.

Lastly, unless you purchase the proper black rubbery flexi-type pvc rolls (which are around Baht4000 per 100mt roll) you will find the plastic WILL NOT last more than 8 - 10 months. It will become brittle under the sun and tear over time.

An even better idea - dried grass, finely cut to the consistancy that you get from the average lawn mower - mix into a bit of copper sulphate powder (wil keep the bugs out). It's a good insulator, immediatly obvious if damp (will appear darker), and gives you good access to the drippers if you need to change them. Best of all - easily replaceable at min cost and can be intergrated into the soil when you come round to replanting or changing the crop.

MF

[Somtham]

Altman/Ozzydom - you can suck as much water as you like out of rivers without getting permission from anyone. The 2 exceptions are:

- if you place the pump or feedline on someone else's land - ask

- if you are sucking so much as to impact what becomes avalible downstream for other users (headman will pay you a visit)

Otherwsie no prob's go for it.

Somtham

Lying palstic sheeting can be a great idea

- keeps the soil moist and reduces the amount of irrigation you have to do.

- also stops the weeds growing around the plant (so reduces labour).

So the plastic idea is fine on a seasonal basis - personally though, I don't like irrgation tape with intergrated drippers, for the following reasons:

- intergated drippers are very fine: they clog easily and 2 problems arise from that - go back in 3 weeks time and you wil find he has had to lift (or indeed tear) the plastic away in many places to unblock drippers that have become blocked (absolutely garunteed if you can't see an inline plate filter somewhere).

- blocked drippers often only discovered as blocked once the plant starts dying (unless of course the plastic is clear - and or you have the time to walk round all 15 rai every day at watering time to establish the soil is staying damp).

- once irrigation tape drippers are blocked they be difficult if not impossible to unblock properly. Unlike drippers in black 1/2" - 1" flexi tubing in which you can change damaged/blocked drippers - you can't do that with irrigation tape that has intergrated drippers.

- you need to add an inline 160 -220mesh plate filter to prevent longterm blocking of the tape type drippers.

Lastly, unless you purchase the proper black rubbery flexi-type pvc rolls (which are around Baht4000 per 100mt roll) you will find the plastic WILL NOT last more than 8 - 10 months. It will become brittle under the sun and tear over time.

An even better idea - dried grass, finely cut to the consistancy that you get from the average lawn mower - mix into a bit of copper sulphate powder (wil keep the bugs out). It's a good insulator, immediatly obvious if damp (will appear darker), and gives you good access to the drippers if you need to change them. Best of all - easily replaceable at min cost and can be intergrated into the soil when you come round to replanting or changing the crop.

MF

Your points on the tape clogging are good ones. Looks impossible to clean them if they get clogged. Does the same thing happen with button drippers? As you may know the source water is a fish pond settling tank with lots of fish poop solids going through the sprinkers now. I need to clean the end ones at least once a week. What types of shops sell these mesh filters?

It's already started to rain regularly so I'll be mowing the grass more frequently and will try to lay some down around the plants...after a good dose of Roundup!! Is more better?

rgds

[chownah]

It's already started to rain regularly so I'll be mowing the grass more frequently and will try to lay some down around the plants...after a good dose of Roundup!! Is more better?

rgds

More grass is better for sure!!! I think Roundup if used at all should be used like Brylcreme.

Chownah

[Somtham]

More grass is better for sure!!! I think Roundup if used at all should be used like Brylcreme.

Chownah

Never used Brylcreme so not sure what that means. I'll check with Fonz and get back to you on that one.

rgds

[chownah]

More grass is better for sure!!! I think Roundup if used at all should be used like Brylcreme.

Chownah

Never used Brylcreme so not sure what that means. I'll check with Fonz and get back to you on that one.

rgds

Brylcreme's motto: "A little dab'll do ya"

[Maizefarmer]

Somtham - use loads of Roundup - the more the better - excess chemical is an excellent thing!!! One dose of Roundup should be sufficient.

Nope - if you are drawing from any kind of settling pond you are going to have to use a disc/plate filter (see pic below)

The disc filter is the black oblong thing which has about 150 thin plastic plates inside it. To clean it you take the bottom half off and rinse the plates in fresh water, or reverse flush it. Print the picture out and take it intop any ag supply store or decent hardware store that supplies farmers - and they'll whip out a book from under the counter and show you about half dozen alternatives. This is what you want:

- as big as you can afford (they vary in price from Baht6K - Bht20plus K)

- disc or plate size - 160 - 220mesh (that size will keep or drippers 100% unclogged)

Whatever kind of drippers you use - you must use a filter, otherwise you will be constantly un-screwing screwed in drippers to clean and screw back in - it will never stop. The advantage with screw in drippers is that they are a) easy to clean (just unscrew and poke with a thin pin), they can be replaced if need be.

For a load of tec info on plate filters go to - read the info on the right hand side of the page about pressure drops, in-line resistance and mesh sizes - good stuff which will help you make an informed choice:

www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-filter-Disc-filters.php

You can get this actual product in Thailand (but cheaper and just as good options are also avalible)

MF

MF

[Pond Life]

Not quite sure where you are Somtam, but Global House In CM definatly has these disc filters now, to fit pipe sizes from 1" to 3".

[Somtham]

Somtham - use loads of Roundup - the more the better - excess chemical is an excellent thing!!! One dose of Roundup should be sufficient.

Nope - if you are drawing from any kind of settling pond you are going to have to use a disc/plate filter (see pic below)

The disc filter is the black oblong thing which has about 150 thin plastic plates inside it. To clean it you take the bottom half off and rinse the plates in fresh water, or reverse flush it. Print the picture out and take it intop any ag supply store or decent hardware store that supplies farmers - and they'll whip out a book from under the counter and show you about half dozen alternatives. This is what you want:

- as big as you can afford (they vary in price from Baht6K - Bht20plus K)

- disc or plate size - 160 - 220mesh (that size will keep or drippers 100% unclogged)

Whatever kind of drippers you use - you must use a filter, otherwise you will be constantly un-screwing screwed in drippers to clean and screw back in - it will never stop. The advantage with screw in drippers is that they are a) easy to clean (just unscrew and poke with a thin pin), they can be replaced if need be.

For a load of tec info on plate filters go to - read the info on the right hand side of the page about pressure drops, in-line resistance and mesh sizes - good stuff which will help you make an informed choice:

www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-filter-Disc-filters.php

You can get this actual product in Thailand (but cheaper and just as good options are also avalible)

MF

MF

Thank you. I've never seen these types of filters before but will have a look in town (Kamphaengphet) for them. Looks like you are using differential pressure to determine when to clean your filter, if the pic is from your farm. Also, do I see pressure regulator on the left vertical pipe? Where did you get it?

rgds

[Maizefarmer]

Well spotted - thats why I posted that picture, it shows the concept clearly - also pressure diffrential is used to control how much additive is sucked up into the system

Regulators can be purchased from Netafin in Bkk

MF

Edited May 1, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[Tim207]

Nobody has ever mentioned water temperature effects on plants. Since many people are placing lines above ground and they are black, the water standing in the pipes must get pretty hot in between uses. Is this not a problem that needs to be worried about? I always had to purged the hot water from the hose I was using (which was a clear plastic) before watering my plants. It was hot enough to be painful on the skin. That isn't really easy with a large system.

[Lickey]

Ive thought about this to Tim, the water gets near painful on skin, i suppose it hasnt been mentioned because if using sprinklers, water flying through the air soon gets cooled, drip-systems go direct on the ground near the plant so water quickly adapts to soil tempeture, but once the sun heated water has gone from the pipes, what is the effect of cold water on warm plants,roots and leaves? do they need cooling so rapidly?

Once my holding tank is empty the borehole water fills it, its usually about 5/7c, this goes direct onto plants via overhead and mini-sprinklers, i would think it warms a little on its journey, but 2,100 ltrs every 20 mins wont get to warm,

Full time farmers views on this and comments appreciated as always, Thanks, Lickey.

[Khonwan]

Nobody has ever mentioned water temperature effects on plants. Since many people are placing lines above ground and they are black, the water standing in the pipes must get pretty hot in between uses. Is this not a problem that needs to be worried about? I always had to purged the hot water from the hose I was using (which was a clear plastic) before watering my plants. It was hot enough to be painful on the skin. That isn't really easy with a large system.

I should think you could place a drain valve at the lowest point in the system, to empty the pipes after irrigation since the problem is obviously with retention of water in the pipes being exposed to heat.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Maizefarmer]

Nobody has ever mentioned water temperature effects on plants. Since many people are placing lines above ground and they are black, the water standing in the pipes must get pretty hot in between uses. Is this not a problem that needs to be worried about? I always had to purged the hot water from the hose I was using (which was a clear plastic) before watering my plants. It was hot enough to be painful on the skin. That isn't really easy with a large system.

I should think you could place a drain valve at the lowest point in the system, to empty the pipes after irrigation since the problem is obviously with retention of water in the pipes being exposed to heat.

Rgds

Khonwan

Water lock? - this is a gradient field: there will be dripper line at the lowest point in the system - once irrigation is stopped residual water in the system will drain to the lowest dripper line and out of the drippers. The amount of drippers that are going to be used will eliminate any possibility of an air/water lock occuring.

Water Temp? - non -issue for water been applied into the soil and the flow rates through the tubing diameters proposed will not give the water time to rise any appreciable rate.

MF

[Khonwan]

Nobody has ever mentioned water temperature effects on plants. Since many people are placing lines above ground and they are black, the water standing in the pipes must get pretty hot in between uses. Is this not a problem that needs to be worried about? I always had to purged the hot water from the hose I was using (which was a clear plastic) before watering my plants. It was hot enough to be painful on the skin. That isn't really easy with a large system.

I should think you could place a drain valve at the lowest point in the system, to empty the pipes after irrigation since the problem is obviously with retention of water in the pipes being exposed to heat.

Rgds

Khonwan

Water lock? - this is a gradient field: there will be dripper line at the lowest point in the system - once irrigation is stopped residual water in the system will drain to the lowest dripper line and out of the drippers. The amount of drippers that are going to be used will eliminate any possibility of an air/water lock occuring.

Water Temp? - non -issue for water been applied into the soil and the flow rates through the tubing diameters proposed will not give the water time to rise any appreciable rate.

MF

Water lock! - Tim's post (to which I was replying) makes no reference to Lickey's post; his is a general question. Many of the people that Tim is considering are using sprinklers...on fairly level ground...which does lead to water retention if not drained.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Tim207]

Water lock! - Tim's post (to which I was replying) makes no reference to Lickey's post; his is a general question. Many of the people that Tim is considering are using sprinklers...on fairly level ground...which does lead to water retention if not drained.

Rgds

Khonwan

Yes, sorry for the confusion. The irrigation thread seemed an appropriate place to raise the issue. Level ground with above ground black irrigation pipe is what I had in mind. I am setting up drip irrigation for my makhua in pots experiment and the thought occured to me that the residual water in the pipes could get pretty hot.

[Maizefarmer]

Water lock! - Tim's post (to which I was replying) makes no reference to Lickey's post; his is a general question. Many of the people that Tim is considering are using sprinklers...on fairly level ground...which does lead to water retention if not drained.

Rgds

Khonwan

Yes, sorry for the confusion. The irrigation thread seemed an appropriate place to raise the issue. Level ground with above ground black irrigation pipe is what I had in mind. I am setting up drip irrigation for my makhua in pots experiment and the thought occured to me that the residual water in the pipes could get pretty hot.

Seconded -yes,if using sprinklers always good idea to have a drain at the lowest point in the overall system (where ever that may be) - not only to prevent chemical residue accumulating and drying out over time in the piping, but also ascorrctly mentioned, to prevent hot water been thrown on the joung plants (and water sitting for just a couple hours in irrigation piping in summer Thai sun can reach 70 degrees plus). Better still -it's always best to irrigate early evening/overnight or early morning.

... and if it's a crop you pick on a daily basis (i.e. Makua) - best to water early evening otherwiseyou/your staff land up walking around in mud!

But don't try to apply insecticide through sprinklers - it's very inefficient, especialy in early stages of growth when the foilage surface area of makua (or any crop for that matter) represents only a fraction of the overall area which the sprinkler will throw water over - you end up "throwing" most of the insecticide every where except where it's needed (i.e.on the plant).

MF

Edited May 2, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[Lickey]

Please let me apologise on MFs behalf, he has recently gave me some excellent advice on drip-feeding 10/12 rai on a gradient, and i would think he still had this in mind when answering about clearing pipes ect.

Perhaps not aplicable to many of you , but as our farm is totally on a gradient, and the borehole being near the lowest point, then holding tank and booster pump 20mtrs from this, from the booster pump there is a 1 way valve, then a T with a tapped 1" outlet with 40 mtrs of the green hose, when i want to drain off system {200+mtrs 2" } i put the pipe near a Tamarind/banana/kanoon/orange/mango tree, rather than just draining off into the ground.

Tim207 was enquiring about hot water on plants, surely this cant be a shock to the plants if they are in the sun as well, im more concerned about the borehole water going on the plants at 6/7c, just wondered if this could cause poor fruit-set?

Thanks for any thoughts on this, Lickey.

[Maizefarmer]

Please let me apologise on MFs behalf, he has recently gave me some excellent advice on drip-feeding 10/12 rai on a gradient, and i would think he still had this in mind when answering about clearing pipes ect.

Perhaps not aplicable to many of you , but as our farm is totally on a gradient, and the borehole being near the lowest point, then holding tank and booster pump 20mtrs from this, from the booster pump there is a 1 way valve, then a T with a tapped 1" outlet with 40 mtrs of the green hose, when i want to drain off system {200+mtrs 2" } i put the pipe near a Tamarind/banana/kanoon/orange/mango tree, rather than just draining off into the ground.

Tim207 was enquiring about hot water on plants, surely this cant be a shock to the plants if they are in the sun as well, im more concerned about the borehole water going on the plants at 6/7c, just wondered if this could cause poor fruit-set?

Thanks for any thoughts on this, Lickey.

Lickey

Nothing to worry about - add some ice cubes (joking - all will be fine).

MF

[Pond Life]

When I started this thread a long while ago I was blathering about a water pumping water wheel.

Well, here it is (if I can get the link thingies right).

Water_Wheel_Pump.mov

water_wheel_low_quality.mov

It took a while because I had to build a workshop, then buy a welder, then teach myself to weld, then knock a hole in the wall of the new workshop to get it out.

But aside from that little set back it worked pretty well after a bit of tweaking.

Its 120 cm diameter with blade width of 90 cm.

It uses 6 turns of 22 mm id tubing, for the pumping.

Total cost of materials about 3000 B.

Its currently pumping 1.75 lt per minute to a hight of 3.5 meters.

Im pretty sure it could pump to about 10 m without much drop in output.

Output for the current design seems to be limited by RPM which is currently about 4.

This was a small experimental version I built for a friend.

He's currently installing a tank to make use of the water.

Im planning to try fitting a double coil to try to increase the output, there seems to be plenty of power from the water.

I think i'll try a 2 m wheel next time on a pontoon in the river.

[Somtham]

When I started this thread a long while ago I was blathering about a water pumping water wheel.

Well, here it is (if I can get the link thingies right).

It took a while because I had to build a workshop, then buy a welder, then teach myself to weld, then knock a hole in the wall of the new workshop to get it out.

But aside from that little set back it worked pretty well after a bit of tweaking.

Its 120 cm diameter with blade width of 90 cm.

It uses 6 turns of 22 mm id tubing, for the pumping.

Total cost of materials about 3000 B.

Its currently pumping 1.75 lt per minute to a hight of 3.5 meters.

Im pretty sure it could pump to about 10 m without much drop in output.

Output for the current design seems to be limited by RPM which is currently about 4.

This was a small experimental version I built for a friend.

He's currently installing a tank to make use of the water.

Im planning to try fitting a double coil to try to increase the output, there seems to be plenty of power from the water.

I think i'll try a 2 m wheel next time on a pontoon in the river.

Very, very, very cool. Congratulations.

rgds

[Pond Life]

On my latest visit to Thailand I build a FerroCement water tank for irrigation.

Here's the details.

Volume is approx 36,000 lt.

Cost approx 50,000 Baht.

13 days labour for 7 skilled guys.

70 (10m) x 9mm re bar

2 rolls (50m each) welded wire mesh (15cmx30cm)

7 rolls (100 ft each) galvanised hardware cloth (12mmx12mm mesh)

9 rolls tie wire

55 bags cement

3 m3 stone

8 m3 sand

25 eucalyptus poles

Filled it 3/4 full so far & just a few damp patches.

The final picture shows it not quite finished, I forgot to take any after it was done & the filter & plumbing in.

The plan is to gravity irrigate my young tree's from it using 3mm spagetti tubeing instead of drippers.

Maybe drip feed some veggies at a later date.

However, at the moment we're just watering 1 tree at a time fed from a hose from the tank.

Building instructions & information came from a book called "Water Storage" by Art Ludwig.

Available from :

http://www.oasisdesign.net/

[Pond Life]

I forgot to mention the water wheel.

Its been turning non stop for about 4 months now.

The only problems so far is the rotating seal is wearing the axle.

& the coil blocked once.