UK's May defends Saudi ties as crown prince gets royal welcome in London

[webfact]

UK's May defends Saudi ties as crown prince gets royal welcome in London

By William James

 

Saudi Arabia's Mohammed bin Salman arrived in London during his first official trip as crown prince where he's meeting Britain's Queen Elizabeth and Prime Minister Theresa May. Rough cut (no reporter narration).

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May defended Britain's links to security ally Saudi Arabia on Wednesday as Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman met Queen Elizabeth for lunch on a high-profile visit that drew protests over Riyadh's human rights record.

 

A fiery exchange in parliament between May and opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn underlined tension in Britain over Prince Mohammed's trip, which was aimed at building a broader economic partnership between the two countries, but has sparked anger about alleged human rights abuses and the war in Yemen.

 

Britain's Queen Elizabeth greets Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, during a private audience at Buckingham Palace in London, Britain, March 7, 2018. REUTERS/Dominic Lipinski/Pool

 

"The link that we have with Saudi Arabia is historic, it is an important one, and it has saved the lives of potentially hundreds of people in this country," May said, pausing her answer briefly as opposition lawmakers cried "Shame!". She was alluding to intelligence-sharing on Islamist militant suspects.

 

The debate took place as Prince Mohammed lunched with the British monarch on the first leg of a trip packed with displays of diplomatic affection designed to help widen long-standing defence ties into a more far-reaching partnership.

 

May later met Prince Mohammed at her Downing Street office, extending a warm diplomatic welcome to the conservative kingdom's heir apparent and agreeing a 65 billion pound ($90.29 billion) trade and investment target.

 

Britain is looking for trading partners as it exits the European Union, and energy powerhouse Saudi Arabia needs to convince sceptical investors about its domestic reforms.

 

"This is a significant boost for UK prosperity and a clear demonstration of the strong international confidence in our economy as we prepare to leave the European Union," a spokeswoman from May's office said after the meeting.

 

But demonstrators gathered outside May's office amid a heavy police presence to protest at both countries' role in Yemen, where war has killed around 10,000 people. A Saudi-led coalition intervened militarily in Yemen in 2015 and critics say Riyadh has been using British-supplied weapons in devastating strikes.

 

"I don't believe that someone like Mohammed bin Salman should be welcomed in Britain," said Hassan Yassine, a 25-year-old customer service worker from London. "It is definitely not ethical, bearing in mind what is going on in Yemen every single day, every single second, even as we speak."

 

Corbyn said British military advisers were "directing the war" in Yemen. May's spokesman said British personnel had no role in carrying out coalition air strikes, and were not involved in Saudi targeting decisions.

 

STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP

 

Police said a man was arrested on suspicion of criminal damage after an egg was thrown at a police vehicle as bin Salman's motorcade arrived in Downing Street.

 

Wednesday's first official engagement was a trip to Buckingham Palace to see Queen Elizabeth - a rare honour usually reserved for heads of state.

 

The Saudi delegation then met May at her offices to launch a UK-Saudi Strategic Partnership Council.

 

The meeting set out the mutual trade and investment target, which would include direct investment in Britain and new Saudi public procurement with British companies. This would be spread across sectors including finance, education, healthcare, renewable energy and defence, May's office said.

 

Britain is vying to land the stock market listing of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, but no decision is expected this week.

 

"We would like the Aramco share option to be issued in the United Kingdom and we will continue to suggest the City would be the best place for it," junior foreign office minister Alistair Burt told parliament.

 

Later this month Prince Mohammed visits the United States, which also wants the lucrative listing, although sources said both countries might miss out.

 

British officials were privately delighted at the decision by Prince Mohammed, 32, to choose Britain as the major Western destination on his first foreign trip since becoming heir to the Saudi throne last year.

 

The British government is keen to develop a two-way trade and investment relationship, eyeing both an expanded market in Saudi Arabia for service sector exports, and attracting Saudi cash to finance domestic projects.

 

For his part, Saudi Arabia's ambitious heir wants to show that "shock" reforms have made his country a better place to invest and a more tolerant society.

 

Photographs posted online showed London taxis displaying advertising graphics welcoming Prince Mohammed, and electronic billboards around the capital promoted pro-Saudi messages with the hashtag #anewsaudiarabia.

 

Business deals are possible with British defence group BAE Systems <BAES.L> and European weapons maker MBDA, and initial agreements could be concluded on gas exploration, petrochemicals and other industries, according to British and Saudi sources.

 

ROYAL TREATMENT

 

The three-day visit will include a second Royal audience - dinner with the Prince Charles and Prince William on Wednesday - and a prestigious visit to May's country residence on Thursday.

 

The prime minister intends to use the private dinner at Chequers, a 16th-century manor house 40 miles (60 km) northwest of London, to further press her concerns over the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, her spokesman said.

 

The Saudi-led coalition is fighting the Iran-allied Houthi movement in Yemen in a campaign to restore its internationally recognised government, generating what the United Nations said in January is the world's worst humanitarian crisis.

 

Demonstrators are protesting against Britain for licensing 4.6 billion pounds of weapons sales to Saudi Arabia since 2015.

 

May said all arms sales were strictly regulated, that Saudi Arabia's involvement in the conflict was backed by the U.N. Security Council and her government supported it.

 

"The prime minister and crown prince agreed on the importance of full and unfettered humanitarian and commercial access, including through the ports, and that a political solution was ultimately the only way to end the conflict and humanitarian suffering in Yemen," the statement from May's office said.

 

($1 = 0.7199 pounds)

 

(additional reporting by Hesham Hajali editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-03-08

[nev]

Looks like he is packing a Uzi sub machine gun in the pic next to May :-)

[boomerangutang]

Two pics - each one, he's meeting with a female boss (one political, one royal).

 

In his country, women aren't even allowed to drive a car.

[JoePai]

16 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Two pics - each one, he's meeting with a female boss (one political, one royal).

 

In his country, women aren't even allowed to drive a car.

Yes they are 

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, JoePai said:

Yes they are 

Not yet.

[thaibeachlovers]

British establishment sucking up to Saudis. 

Anyone been to work in Saudi knows why that is not a good thing.

Defending the indefensible, IMO.

Edited March 8, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

British establishment sucking up to Saudis. 

Anyone been to work in Saudi knows why that is not a good thing.

Defending the indefensible, IMO.

I spent two years in Saudi Arabia, please leave me out of your claim to understand the views of anyone who’s been to work there.

[eliotness]

Arms sales and morals don't go together. Money is King.

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

British establishment sucking up to Saudis. 

Anyone been to work in Saudi knows why that is not a good thing.

Defending the indefensible, IMO.

Lots of baggage with Saudi Arabia but they are crucial to our economy. Never more so than now with Brexit looming.  We cannot afford to close any doors especially when a trade deal with the USA in the near future is looking very unlikely.  The Queen has a long standing relationship with Saudi Arabia and in the past has been criticised for it.

 

Of course it would be better if Saudi changed it's stance over many issues overnight but that will take time.  At least now they are starting with the Prince pushing through reforms.  Corbyn made as much as he could in PMQ's yesterday but that was playing politics rather than genuine concern.

[goldenbrwn1]

Saudi Arabia is now the 6th fastest growing economy in the world and is now looking to move away from just being an oil reliant economy. The U.K. is well placed to supply lots of investment in services. An example is cinema complexes, they are soon to be allowed in Saudi Arabia under the reforms. The whole region is changing and it’s moved on from just being the U.K. supplying arms and receiving oil. 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Saudi Arabia is now the 6th fastest growing economy in the world and is now looking to move away from just being an oil reliant economy. The U.K. is well placed to supply lots of investment in services. An example is cinema complexes, they are soon to be allowed in Saudi Arabia under the reforms. The whole region is changing and it’s moved on from just being the U.K. supplying arms and receiving oil. 

When I was there, no Saudi would actually do any work. The closest they got to it was an office while "guest workers" did all the work.

Has that changed?

They had factories to make a lot of things, but it was all BS as it would have been cheaper to import everything they made.

It's all just façade to have cinema complexes if all they can watch is Egyptian soaps like they watch on tv. When they can watch an uncensored Hollywood movie while with their girlfriend I'll believe it's changing.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

British establishment sucking up to Saudis. 

Anyone been to work in Saudi knows why that is not a good thing.

Defending the indefensible, IMO.

 

I also spent time working and living there. Please also leave me out of your claim to understand the views of everyone whose worked there.

 

[Baerboxer]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was there, no Saudi would actually do any work. The closest they got to it was an office while "guest workers" did all the work.

Has that changed?

They had factories to make a lot of things, but it was all BS as it would have been cheaper to import everything they made.

It's all just façade to have cinema complexes if all they can watch is Egyptian soaps like they watch on tv. When they can watch an uncensored Hollywood movie while with their girlfriend I'll believe it's changing.

 

No idea when you worked there. But presumably that was before the "Saudization" that was aimed at ensuring locals were hired in preference to foreigners. I worked in a government conglomerate and many senior managers and nearly all directors were Saudi; many technicians were Saudi and many young recruits were very well educated Saudis.

 

Apart from oil Saudi is rich in mineral reserves, has bauxite and was developing joint ventures for aluminum smelting and product manufacture; has massive fertilizer manufacturing capacity and good gold reserves, much of which has been found but only limited mining permitted so far. Aerospace and automotive were target industries for manufacturing in the future.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was there, no Saudi would actually do any work. The closest they got to it was an office while "guest workers" did all the work.

Has that changed?

They had factories to make a lot of things, but it was all BS as it would have been cheaper to import everything they made.

It's all just façade to have cinema complexes if all they can watch is Egyptian soaps like they watch on tv. When they can watch an uncensored Hollywood movie while with their girlfriend I'll believe it's changing.

 

Basically, you'll "believe it's changing" after it's already changed. For most people, change is a process.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Morch

[Jim1000]

Get money , get money  get money still

Let virtue follow  -  if she will......................

[ilostmypassword]

"Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, in a conversation Monday with Egyptian newspaper editors on a visit to Cairo, accused Mr. Erdogan of trying to revive an “Ottoman Caliphate” and described Turkey as part of a “triangle of evil” alongside Iran and terrorist organizations, according to Egypt’s state-run al Ahram newspaper."

http://vip.cetusnews.com/news/Turkey-Flexes-Muscles-as-Soft-Power-Melts-Away.Hk8LE9ROG.html

 

Wonder if he'll be dropping any bombs on this leg of his journey.

[Jonnapat]

2 hours ago, eliotness said:

Arms sales and morals don't go together. Money is King.

You hit the nail on the head there

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Saudi Arabia is now the 6th fastest growing economy in the world and is now looking to move away from just being an oil reliant economy. The U.K. is well placed to supply lots of investment in services. An example is cinema complexes, they are soon to be allowed in Saudi Arabia under the reforms. The whole region is changing and it’s moved on from just being the U.K. supplying arms and receiving oil. 

And yet the Crown Prince's Vision 2030 program so far hasn't generated much investment. It wasn't the brightest moving extorting cash out of wealthy Saudis by locking them up in the Ritz Carlton shortly after the promotion ended.  Investors are justifiably very reluctant to put their money in a country where the rules are, to say the least, opaque and your partner and your cash might end up sequestered. 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, eliotness said:

Arms sales and morals don't go together. Money is King.

Unfortunately very true, as history and present days show.

[Chomper Higgot]

There are numerous moves by Saudi Arabia to liberlise their society, these will inevitably give rise to a push back from conservatives.

 

on this basis alone we might very reasonably argue, now is precisely the right time to offer support to Saudi Arabia’s liberalising leaders.

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Saudi Arabia is now the 6th fastest growing economy in the world and is now looking to move away from just being an oil reliant economy. The U.K. is well placed to supply lots of investment in services. An example is cinema complexes, they are soon to be allowed in Saudi Arabia under the reforms. The whole region is changing and it’s moved on from just being the U.K. supplying arms and receiving oil. 

I was thinking that your contention that Saudi Arabia was the 6th fastest growing economy in the world, didn't sound quite right, especially given it's dependence on petroleum exports. So I decided to do a check. For the year 2017, out of 192 nations, Saudi Arabia ranked 178th for rate of growth. The would put it somewhere in the bottom 10th percentile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_real_GDP_growth_rate

[goldenbrwn1]

19 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I was thinking that your contention that Saudi Arabia was the 6th fastest growing economy in the world, didn't sound quite

My apologies . I was watching cnbc on the subject and obviously misheard. I should of checked properly before posting. But I still stand by that Saudi Arabia is a great future investment for the U.K. now they are moving away from being an oil reliant economy.  

[evadgib]

Don't shoot the messenger! 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman-of-saudi-arabias-visit-march-2018 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-meeting-with-the-crown-prince-of-saudi-arabia-7-march-2018

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-uk-saudi-arabia-partnership-to-boost-livelihoods-and-economic-development-in-worlds-poorest-countries

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/foreign-secretary-remarks-on-the-visit-of-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

My apologies . I was watching cnbc on the subject and obviously misheard. I should of checked properly before posting. But I still stand by that Saudi Arabia is a great future investment for the U.K. now they are moving away from being an oil reliant economy.  

I don't know about it being great for investments. Great for sales of armaments and whatever else the Saudis may require for their development plans. In fact there's a lot of doubt, for instance, whether the Aramco offering will ever actually make it to any stock exchange. Investors have been very leery of it because fundamentally there is no rule of law in Saudi Arabia. Witness the recent extortions. Certainly commercial law, such as it is, is in a very rudimentary state. There has been lots of expectations that the 5% of Aramco will end up being purchased by the Chinese government whether openly or through some technically private buyer. It's a lot harder to screw over the Chinese govt than it is private parties. 

[ilostmypassword]

This article goes a long way towards explaining the reluctance to invest in Saudi Arabia:

 

Saudis Said to Use Coercion and Abuse to Seize Billions

"In November, the Saudi government locked up hundreds of powerful businessmen and royals in Riyadh in what it said was a crackdown on corruption.

As the Saudi crown prince comes to the U.S. to court investment, new details cast doubts on his claims of a transparent, legal anti-corruption effort."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-corruption-mohammed-bin-salman.html

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This article goes a long way towards explaining the reluctance to invest in Saudi Arabia:

 

Saudis Said to Use Coercion and Abuse to Seize Billions

"In November, the Saudi government locked up hundreds of powerful businessmen and royals in Riyadh in what it said was a crackdown on corruption.

As the Saudi crown prince comes to the U.S. to court investment, new details cast doubts on his claims of a transparent, legal anti-corruption effort."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/11/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-corruption-mohammed-bin-salman.html

 

Yes. And on the other hand, there's this from the OP:

 

Quote

May later met Prince Mohammed at her Downing Street office, extending a warm diplomatic welcome to the conservative kingdom's heir apparent and agreeing a 65 billion pound ($90.29 billion) trade and investment target.

 

Could be wrong, but I don't think that there were foreigners targeted by them "anti-corruption" moves, and not sure that there was all that much "rule of law", so much as no kicking of anthills.

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yes. And on the other hand, there's this from the OP:

 

 

Could be wrong, but I don't think that there were foreigners targeted by them "anti-corruption" moves, and not sure that there was all that much "rule of law", so much as no kicking of anthills.

 

 

 

People who do business in Saudi Arabia will need locals to guide and represent them. How can they be reassured that their local won't be a target?

Saudi anti-corruption purge triggers investor uncertainty

 

https://www.ft.com/content/b841bf62-c247-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656

 

Saudi investors check out after hotel turned into luxury prison

https://www.ft.com/content/4cb6a472-caf5-11e7-ab18-7a9fb7d6163e

 

9 months on from his unprecedented power grab, Saudi Arabia's millennial crown prince is looking vulnerable

• Crown prince Mohammed bin Salman's stewardship of the throne is being questioned.
• Foreign investors were spooked by the recent crackdown on the Saudi elite.
• Investors are worried that potential partners could fall victim to another corruption purge.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabias-millennial-crown-prince-is-looking-vulnerable-2018-2

 

Relax and invest, Saudi prince tells investors after corruption crackdown

 Three months after Saudi Arabia detained scores of people in a crackdown on corruption, its rulers are trying to reassure investors that the kingdom remains open for business.

Foreign and local investors have long complained about corruption, and confronting it is an important part of reforms unveiled by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to transform the country and reduce the economy’s reliance on oil exports.

Yet some business leaders were unsettled by the swoop on top princes, businessmen and government officials in November because of the secrecy around the crackdown and their suspicions that it was at least partly politically motivated.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-arrests-business/relax-and-invest-saudi-prince-tells-investors-after-corruption-crackdown-idUSKCN1G40HX

 

[Morch]

@ilostmypassword

 

 

 

Other than the topic being about something else (here it is again)...

 

Quote

May later met Prince Mohammed at her Downing Street office, extending a warm diplomatic welcome to the conservative kingdom's heir apparent and agreeing a 65 billion pound ($90.29 billion) trade and investment target.

 

...does this advertised uncertainty among potential investors represent a major shift from how things stood previously? And to be clear, I don't think think anyone suggested the SA is a great place to invest in. 

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

@ilostmypassword

 

 

 

Other than the topic being about something else (here it is again)...

 

 

...does this advertised uncertainty among potential investors represent a major shift from how things stood previously? And to be clear, I don't think think anyone suggested the SA is a great place to invest in. 

An investment target? First cousin to a pious hope?  That's what you call "on the other hand"?

I think the articles are very clear as to why this would discourage investment. And even if it isn't a major shift from how things stood previously, wasn't the point of the "Davos in the Desert" to show how things were different?  In other words, once again, MBS sabotaged his own goals through an ill-considered scheme. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

An investment target? First cousin to a pious hope?  That's what you call "on the other hand"?

I think the articles are very clear as to why this would discourage investment. And even if it isn't a major shift from how things stood previously, wasn't the point of the "Davos in the Desert" to show how things were different?  In other words, once again, MBS sabotaged his own goals through an ill-considered scheme. 

 

Well, your crusade aside, I don't think that SA will have trouble securing deals and investment on a government or multinationals level, same as it had for years. That's not going to change anytime soon. As for the Crown Prince's ambitions of introducing changes etc. - it will be a much slower process than advertised. So while things might not be "happening", it's not as if SA took a step back. Like other quite a few other ME countries, doing business there is not for the feint-heated, and usually more a big guns thing.