Death of Year 10 student in Buriram: song thaew driver, other motorcyclist deny negligence

[Russell17au]

48 minutes ago, evadgib said:

My opinion remains that an element of responsibility lies with the far too common practice of allowing children to ride bikes owned, supplied and fuelled by adults. Your observation re 15 being the legal age might have merit if 15 was the age that they actually took to the roads for the first time and that they had passed a test before doing so. In my experience they start as young as SIX when their feet can't even touch the floor.

Your argument does not stand because there are more adults killed on motorbikes than there are 15 year olds, so do we nursemaid all ages

[darksidedog]

56 minutes ago, evadgib said:

My opinion remains that an element of responsibility lies with the far too common practice of allowing children to ride bikes owned, supplied and fuelled by adults. Your observation re 15 being the legal age might have merit if 15 was the age that they actually took to the roads for the first time and that they had passed a test before doing so. In my experience they start as young as SIX when their feet can't even touch the floor.

Many years ago, when I first came here and got stopped by the cops for a license check I asked the cop how old you had to be to get a license here. He replied 15. At that exact moment three  12 year old girls came past on a bike without a helmet between them. I said, they are not fifteen. He looked at me as if I were a moron and said "How do you expect them to drive safely when they get their license if they haven't practiced first?" I booked the whole lot as idiots there and then and nothing has changed my mind since.

[Russell17au]

One of the most disturbing things that happened with this accident is that there is a possibility the the Songtheaw driver did not see or feel the student go under his bus but surely the passengers in the back saw the young students body come out from under the bus and yet there is no report that anyone of them did anything to stop the bus.

Look at the video there are passengers on the bus.

 

[chang1]

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Your argument does not stand because there are more adults killed on motorbikes than there are 15 year olds, so do we nursemaid all ages

As Thais are immature compared to western citizens and the death rate is ridiculous - yes.

Secondly your argument does not stand for 2 reasons

1 there are far more adults than 15 year olds.

2 Adults ride many more miles than 15 year olds.

 

The point is the less training and experience you have the more you are at risk. 

[evadgib]

26 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Your argument does not stand because there are more adults killed on motorbikes than there are 15 year olds, so do we nursemaid all ages

I merely offered an opinion and have yet to see anything that could change it.

Edited March 8, 2018 by evadgib

[Russell17au]

9 minutes ago, chang1 said:

As Thais are immature compared to western citizens and the death rate is ridiculous - yes.

Secondly your argument does not stand for 2 reasons

1 there are far more adults than 15 year olds.

2 Adults ride many more miles than 15 year olds.

 

The point is the less training and experience you have the more you are at risk. 

Yes and it was not the 15 year old that caused this accident it was a more matured older person that caused this accident

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I merely offered an opinion and am not expecting to see anything earth shattering from you that could change it.

One question: who caused this accident the 15 year old or the 23 year old?

[Mavrix]

Darwin Award Nomination...all round stupidity. 

[Daveyh]

Without a doubt the motorcyclist coming from the minor road & turning left is definitely at fault. He should be prosecuted for dangerous driving & manslaughter. He does not slow down at the junction ...... the continous line across the road before the junction means stop before you proceed & he did not! His speed approaching the junction was also too fast & to enter a major road without looking is suicidal, but it happens all the time here. They seem to think that when they are "filtering left" into traffic the vehicles on the "priority" road will always give way to them & they are not required to stop? It's lunacy, but it's the norm here & the thinking is certainly different to europe. The continous line along the main road on the verge must be for pedestrians? ..., but those that do use it for this purpose are risking life & limb .... it should never be used by motorcycles in my opinion. They have a highway code here ........ very similar to our own, but they choose to ignore it & the Royal Thai Police never enforce it, hence the daily fatality rate here. Why is that?? ........... I can only surmise that the training that they receive is inadequate & their "me first" mindset is priority one! The road markings here are poor & it's not likely to improve, which contributes to a high percentage of accidents here, but as I've said "If they choose to ignore their highway code & the police do not enforce it" ........ it's a receipe for disaster. It's no wonder that Thailand has the most dangerous roads on the planet! I really hate driving here ....... it's a risk everytime you venture out & each journey is fraught with incidents, but needs must here to shop etc. I avoid peak times, especially school hours etc., as it's "high risk" & must be termed as "The Daily Dangerous Hours" soon I think!! ........... I refuse to drive at these times period. It's never going to change .......... not in a million years. Fact ............ so sad young lives are lost everyday, because of someone's self importance & stupidity. RIP young man :-( 

[soistalker]

I watch a lot of dashcam videos. Usually, there is a way to avoid the crash. But not in this case. There was no way that poor boy could have avoided that. 

The guy coming out of the alley  needs a baseball bat to the face. Selfish little bastard. He murdered that boy. He's lucky it wasn't him who died. Who the <deleted> turns onto the highway without looking?!?

The songthaw driver is guilty of hit and run, lying to police, and of not being a human being. Was he thinking about all the 10 baht coins he would lose if he stopped? He ran over a human; then he kept going. 

I have driven and riden in many Asian countries. Thailand is by far the worst. 

[soistalker]

Imagine everyone  driving like they are drunk, insane, and suicidal, all processing driving information with an idiot-level IQ of 70.

Welcome to Thailand.

[chang1]

3 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Yes and it was not the 15 year old that caused this accident it was a more matured older person that caused this accident

Which is why I answered yes to your question "so do we nursemaid all ages"

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, realfunster said:

The other motorbike rider at fault, clear as day.

One of my pet peeves when driving is the all too regular motorbike turn left without looking. 

What I noticed in the picture of the scene is that the joining road has a stop line for cars but the slip/motorbike lane just continues unabated onto the main road. They should change the lane markings to make it clear motorbikes need to stop and check as well. 

There isn't much attention paid to road markings or lanes.

I have noticed bikes seem to be 'more likely' to stop or slow if I am in my truck, but sometimes they don't even seem to look and play 'I don't see, it can't hurt me game'. If I am on the highway I tend to edge right. Perhaps striped markings or rumble strips would do something but they need to get working in a lot of places!

[Bob12345]

11 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

You'll do the same? In such a case.

 

Nice person are you, sorry to say!

No, I would like to say I would not do the same.

But I am not Thai.

 

At middle school I had an old, funny, but also wise German language teacher (this was in Holland - I was aged around 15 years old i guess).

Instead of just teaching us German language, something I didnt like much, he also shared some life lessons with the kids in his class.

One of the things he used to tell in us was that the difference between an adult and a kid is that an adult takes responsibility for his actions.

 

I take responsibility for my actions and the consequences of my actions.

 

Most Thais have learnt from an early age that it is better to deny every responsibility.

You see that here also: the parents blame the one coming from the side street but don't mention a thing about their kid not having a license nor helmet.

The one who hits the kid immediately puts blame on the kid (and possibly the songtaew driver).

The songtaew driver didn't even stop and came up with excuses how he saw it happen but didn't think he hit anything.

Nobody takes blame or looks at their own actions: they all point a finger. With the direct result that a kid has been run over and nobody even tries to help (and no, you dont need a medical license to help, you could at least divert traffic around the body of the victim or, if he is still alive, try to talk to him and keep him lying down).

 

All of them act like kids, taking no responsibility.

Similar things happen all over Thailand.

Even the PM blames everybody but himself for everything that goes wrong.

[Keesters]

18 hours ago, connda said:

But the larger blame rests directly on the Thai government for not taking any proactive measures to stop this kind of 'failure to yield' insanity that kills, literally, thousands every year. 

This is completely senseless, but typifies the carnage that plagues Thai roads.  RIP young man.

'failure to yield' aka 'Me First'

[Russell17au]

There is only 1 way to stop this stupid carnage in Thailand and that is not by education and training it is by taking the unregistered cars and bikes OFF the roads, taking the unlicenced drivers and riders OFF the road, sack all the traffic police officers and then employ new traffic police and supply them with the proper vehicles that is needed for them to patrol the highways and the soi's, increase all traffic fines by 5 times what the legal traffic fines are and enforce the laws.

Once you hit the public hard in the pocket with the fines and take away their unregistered vehicles then you will have their attention then you can start the education and training programs but until you get the publics attention and they realize that they are going to lose a lot of money and their vehicles you are flogging a dead horse because dear old dad that has all his bad habits on the road will override any education and training program that is put into place for his children.

This all needs a government that has some balls to put this into place and then you watch the road carnage drop by thousands.

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

There is only 1 way to stop this stupid carnage in Thailand and that is not by education and training it is by taking the unregistered cars and bikes OFF the roads, taking the unlicenced drivers and riders OFF the road, sack all the traffic police officers and then employ new traffic police and supply them with the proper vehicles that is needed for them to patrol the highways and the soi's, increase all traffic fines by 5 times what the legal traffic fines are and enforce the laws.

Once you hit the public hard in the pocket with the fines and take away their unregistered vehicles then you will have their attention then you can start the education and training programs but until you get the publics attention and they realize that they are going to lose a lot of money and their vehicles you are flogging a dead horse because dear old dad that has all his bad habits on the road will override any education and training program that is put into place for his children.

This all needs a government that has some balls to put this into place and then you watch the road carnage drop by thousands.

You are forgetting one thing. Corruption.

 

I believe education is the way. The public need to be told that the laws are safety measures and not legal measures. Many people flout the law in many ways and they will never stop. Maybe, just maybe, if they can be shown that by taking some small measures on the roads they don't need to mourn family members and friends at such an alarming rate they may listen.

 

2 more motorcyclists killed on same stretch of road last night.

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, puchooay said:

You are forgetting one thing. Corruption.

 

I believe education is the way. The public need to be told that the laws are safety measures and not legal measures. Many people flout the law in many ways and they will never stop. Maybe, just maybe, if they can be shown that by taking some small measures on the roads they don't need to mourn family members and friends at such an alarming rate they may listen.

 

2 more motorcyclists killed on same stretch of road last night.

 

 

Everything starts with education  -  the west has proved that.

 

It is pure naivety to the think that unlicensed/unregistered vehicles are taken of the road. Progression is required. The same is true of keeping Thailand tidy.

 

A royal sponsored campaign to teach safety and awareness is the ideal place to start. Inclusion in the school/university curriculum is essential.

 

Even hourly TV 'flash messages'  along the lines of LOOK RIGHT, LIVE LONGER could help.

 

As reluctant as the Thais are to heed any external advice, this is one area where the west has been successful.

 

Thailand has to start somewhere and education/correct training is the place.

 

All the Draconian fines/vehicle seizures (and any other sledgehammer approach) can come later.

 

 

 

 

[Russell17au]

21 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Everything starts with education  -  the west has proved that.

 

It is pure naivety to the think that unlicensed/unregistered vehicles are taken of the road. Progression is required. The same is true of keeping Thailand tidy.

 

A royal sponsored campaign to teach safety and awareness is the ideal place to start. Inclusion in the school/university curriculum is essential.

 

Even hourly TV 'flash messages'  along the lines of LOOK RIGHT, LIVE LONGER could help.

 

As reluctant as the Thais are to heed any external advice, this is one area where the west has been successful.

 

Thailand has to start somewhere and education/correct training is the place.

 

All the Draconian fines/vehicle seizures (and any other sledgehammer approach) can come later.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but your tiptoe approach was tried in Australia. We took vehicles from fatal accidents and photo's and video's around schools and there was a big media program with tv adds and everything but nothing worked. Then the government tripled the fines and that hit the people hard in the pocket, drivers lost their licences and lost their livelyhoods because of their stupid driving and some of the driving offenses like drink driving even carried prison sentences. That worked, it took the hardline to break through that mentality and get the people to realise that things must change and then the education and the training can start and it is accepted into the brains of the people more easily and now the Australian yearly road toll is just under 1000 and the police and government are not happy with that figure, they want it lower. Australia has an active police force that get out on the road and enforce the laws.

Puchooay, I did not forget about the corruption in the police force because if you read my post I said to sack all the traffic police and employ all new ones.

We came across many problems from parents when we visited the schools to the point that even the police asked some oif them to come and attend fatal accidents with us, one father being a smart mouth said that he we go with us, and he did, the first accident involved a young family and we handed he the mutilated body of the 3 year old baby, he quickly passed the body on and went and through up, the next accident was in another 2 hours and when we arrived he said that the car was his wife's car and he found his wife and daughter both dead in the car, he changed his attitude in respect of the road rules. It takes reality of losing money and transport and love ones to get people to change their attitudes and open their minds to accept the education and the training.

Unfortunately in Thailand the culture is a very big stumbling block that you will never break through without tough action

[puchooay]

10 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Sorry, but your tiptoe approach was tried in Australia. We took vehicles from fatal accidents and photo's and video's around schools and there was a big media program with tv adds and everything but nothing worked. Then the government tripled the fines and that hit the people hard in the pocket, drivers lost their licences and lost their livelyhoods because of their stupid driving and some of the driving offenses like drink driving even carried prison sentences. That worked, it took the hardline to break through that mentality and get the people to realise that things must change and then the education and the training can start and it is accepted into the brains of the people more easily and now the Australian yearly road toll is just under 1000 and the police and government are not happy with that figure, they want it lower. Australia has an active police force that get out on the road and enforce the laws.

Puchooay, I did not forget about the corruption in the police force because if you read my post I said to sack all the traffic police and employ all new ones.

We came across many problems from parents when we visited the schools to the point that even the police asked some oif them to come and attend fatal accidents with us, one father being a smart mouth said that he we go with us, and he did, the first accident involved a young family and we handed he the mutilated body of the 3 year old baby, he quickly passed the body on and went and through up, the next accident was in another 2 hours and when we arrived he said that the car was his wife's car and he found his wife and daughter both dead in the car, he changed his attitude in respect of the road rules. It takes reality of losing money and transport and love ones to get people to change their attitudes and open their minds to accept the education and the training.

Unfortunately in Thailand the culture is a very big stumbling block that you will never break through without tough action

So sacking police and getting new ones stops corruption? You win the prize for funniest post of the year so far. 

 

You really think police are going to be around 24/7? I've lost count of how many times I have heard " don't need a helmet or a licence or road tax if I go out now because there are no police" 

 

Your post has also strengthened the post that you quoted which is quite funny too. The smart mouth father didn't believe until he saw the destruction. 

 

People need to understand that although the threat of police might not be present all of the time, the safety issue is always there. 

 

I say no more. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by puchooay

[biggles45]

Thais do not look right when merging into another roadway. Stand at any intersection, even one manned by the useless "police" and watch them. I see it dozens  of times on my 3km ride to the coffee shop. Riding on the left, near to the kerb can be a dangerous spot to be. 

[mogandave]

It starts with “Rule of Law”


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Thian]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

It seems part of Thai culture is to never admit fault. It's clear from the video both men are lying.

 

Well what is good and  what's wrong??

 

Thai mostly bought their driverslicense for 500 baht so they have never learned what's good or wrong in the Western eyes.

 

Is it a fault to drive onto a mainroad without even looking who's coming? In our Western mind it is but not in the Thai mind since they trust in their amulet, that worked for loads of years so why wouldn't it work today? After all he's still alive after the accident.

 

I wished the bus kept left as it should and got that driver coming out of the sidestreet but  unfortunately it was the motocy driver hitting him.

 

That busdriver is a piece of ****  anyway since he didn't want to stop after it happened and he should have kept lept..

 

But nothing will change, this is how the Thai want to live in their country. No rules, no safetysystems, no manners....just do something and you'll be fine....or not on a bad day.

[Peterphuket]

4 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

No, I would like to say I would not do the same.

But I am not Thai.

 

At middle school I had an old, funny, but also wise German language teacher (this was in Holland - I was aged around 15 years old i guess).

Instead of just teaching us German language, something I didnt like much, he also shared some life lessons with the kids in his class.

One of the things he used to tell in us was that the difference between an adult and a kid is that an adult takes responsibility for his actions.

 

I take responsibility for my actions and the consequences of my actions.

 

Most Thais have learnt from an early age that it is better to deny every responsibility.

You see that here also: the parents blame the one coming from the side street but don't mention a thing about their kid not having a license nor helmet.

The one who hits the kid immediately puts blame on the kid (and possibly the songtaew driver).

The songtaew driver didn't even stop and came up with excuses how he saw it happen but didn't think he hit anything.

Nobody takes blame or looks at their own actions: they all point a finger. With the direct result that a kid has been run over and nobody even tries to help (and no, you dont need a medical license to help, you could at least divert traffic around the body of the victim or, if he is still alive, try to talk to him and keep him lying down).

 

All of them act like kids, taking no responsibility.

Similar things happen all over Thailand.

Even the PM blames everybody but himself for everything that goes wrong.

I agree with your explanation, and no, I didn't have a German teacher in the Netherlands, only an English one, but that's not the point.

And yes, it's all loosing there face, but your comment was rather rough for me.

[Puritan]

5 years in the monkey house should be the minimum for the stupid uncaring fool and 12 months for the song thaew driver for not stopping.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

23 hours ago, YetAnother said:

defies belief; run over a human body and don't feel it ?

Could've thought he ran over the bike.  I don't believe him either, though.

[The Theory]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

He blamed the deceased student

Unblieveable ❗️?

[mindfulness]

... seem to be masters in the art of ‘denial’. 

Well let’s ‘face’ it, loss of face would be more of a devastation than killing someone. 

[Thian]

13 minutes ago, mindfulness said:

... seem to be masters in the art of ‘denial’. 

Well let’s ‘face’ it, loss of face would be more of a devastation than killing someone. 

Killing a motocy-driver is no big deal in Thailand....but if you kill a young graduated student driving daddies car it's a serious crime.

 

 

[Chiang Mai Bill]

Every day you will witness Thais on bikes coming out of side-turnings without looking and regardless for their or other drivers' safety.

 

Lacking common sense must be a genetic fault in many of these idiots.