Waterproof Tile Grouting

[JAS21]

I have a problem with the lower part of two  walls on the other side of a downstairs bathroom ...so it seems that

a) I either have a drain line leak ...

Not enough water proofer in the cement rendering...

c) Water is getting through the grout and seeping to the wall

 

The grout is bad in many place ... I'm puzzled if that is the case as the tiles would normally be fully bedded but tackling c) first is the easiest option

 

Anyway ....

 

I am removing all the grout with a small angle grinder ... will remove the sink and maybe the toilet to clear the lot out

 

What is the best water proof grout available here ... can you get ready mixed or is only the stuff that you mix with water available?

 

Also what do you bed the wash basin plinth  on............thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[fredob43]

Have seen premixed grout comes in pots.

What it's like haven't a clue. I always use powdered grout mixed with water. Never had a problem here or in the UK where I used it all the time. Just make sure it's waterproof.

 

Make sure you get all the old grout out, mix the new grout well, make sure it goes right into the gaps allow to dry a tad (Not to much) as it'll be hard to get off clean with a damp sponge, polish with dry cloth. A grouting sponge trowel is very good for applying grout as it pushes the grout well into the gaps. I have seen them used here but never seen one to buy. (Might be able to get in Tiling shop or places like Global)

[canopy]

Grout is not intended to be waterproof. The surface behind needs to be waterproofed before installing the tiles and grout over it.

 

[carlyai]

Take the tiles off and thin render or paint with SikaTop 107.
Then use a swimming pool grout (available from Kera Tiles) or use Mr FixIt 2 part apoxy.

This is how the tiles on the swimming pool were laid.
I have never done a bathroom, but would suspect swimming pool tiling and bathroom tiling should be similar.

As the previous poster said, grout is not 100% waterproof.
My Thai friend has a commercial pool and has always had trouble (bad installation company). He regrouted the pool with Mr Fixit. Says he's got no more trouble.

If you waterproof with SikaTop 107, you'll be the only person in your area that has waterproofed their bathroom. Thai builders don't seem to do it.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[JAS21]

Thanks for information ....

I have found a little bodge ...

 

The room in question is the Maids Bathroom, at the moment she is using one inside the house and she can continue until I have sorted ...

 

The first pic is where I had to re-run the kitchen sink drain ... I hate to see piping like that but the option was massive ...original line blocked with fat as some idiot ran it, not as per plan, but all around the house ... I 'teed' it into the washer drain line... which actually goes into the fat trap anyway! 

 

Pics then in order of removing ... the sink waste was a little rotted, it fell apart when I was removing ... and it certainly wasn't located into the drain line in any way that I have ever seen before. The floor also has a tiny slope the wrong way!!

]

 

So I will go two ways

Continue removing grout .....

Do  a drain test... luckily I know where this drain line goes ...it's not to plan ...and it is accessible. If it leaks, which I suspect it might then the easiest option is to remove one row of bathroom floor tiles, a row outside, make a trench and dig a soak away near the fence and re pipe shower and washbasin ... At least that part of the grass will be green all year.

 

If the drain test is ok then just re-grout and work out a better way of attaching the washbasin drain .......

 

No golf as it's raining anyway .........................

 

 

[RichCor]

39 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

For what's only supposed to see grey-water discharge, that's seen some abuse from harsh chemical reaction.

Gotta wonder how the rest of the PVC drain line is holding up. 

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, RichCor said:

For what's only supposed to see grey-water discharge, that's seen some abuse from harsh chemical reaction.

Gotta wonder how the rest of the PVC drain line is holding up. 

That piece of course is not pvc ...the trap itself appears to show no sign of any chemical attack.

 

The house was bought new in 2004/5 but we didn't leave the UK for good until 2007 but the builder did come back to do some repairs whilst we were not there..obvious place to dump whatever though I guess....

 

 

[fredob43]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

That piece of course is not pvc ...the trap itself appears to show no sign of any chemical attack.

 

The house was bought new in 2004/5 but we didn't leave the UK for good until 2007 but the builder did come back to do some repairs whilst we were not there..obvious place to dump whatever though I guess....

 

 

Noticed that the trap has had some sort of Glue/Paste fixing it to the plastic pipe. That should be fixed with a tapered rubber plug. Obtainable from any decent plumbers shop. That isn't what's causing your problem but if you are going to do it correctly you will need one.

 

Having been in the tiling game for many years, I can assure you that water proof grout is as stated waterproof once cured of cause 24 hours. You can use epoxy grout but no need, besides that it's a real pig to use if you don't know what you are doing.

 

One thing it "Epoxy" will do is stick anything Basin/Toilet to the tiles. Once in place and left untouched for around 24 hours and cured nothing will move it. To get any excess off (Before it starts to set) around 20min: use some hot soapy water with the aid of a scotch bright and sponge. 

Tip don't let cure as it'll never come off. You will also need to use both floor and wall grout.

[kamalabob2]

The OP might want to buy a snake or manual auger to clean out waste pipes from tile to time. Most every store sells "snakes' in different sizes, lengths and prices. Ridgid drain auger is a more professional brand sold in Thailand, yet less expensive snakes are readily available. 

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, fredob43 said:

Noticed that the trap has had some sort of Glue/Paste fixing it to the plastic pipe. That should be fixed with a tapered rubber plug. Obtainable from any decent plumbers shop. That isn't what's causing your problem but if you are going to do it correctly you will need one.

 

Having been in the tiling game for many years, I can assure you that water proof grout is as stated waterproof once cured of cause 24 hours. You can use epoxy grout but no need, besides that it's a real pig to use if you don't know what you are doing.

 

One thing it "Epoxy" will do is stick anything Basin/Toilet to the tiles. Once in place and left untouched for around 24 hours and cured nothing will move it. To get any excess off (Before it starts to set) around 20min: use some hot soapy water with the aid of a scotch bright and sponge. 

Tip don't let cure as it'll never come off. You will also need to use both floor and wall grout.

It's at least a floor re-tile job ...Mrs J walked on the tiles after I had removed the grout and one cracked ...a little hollow undernesth.

 

Can you tell me what I bed the toilet and wash basin pedestal on ... I noticed when an upstsirs toilet was taken out years a he made quite a thick bed with some pink stuff

 

Yes I will get that rubber joint.

And I have a 12 M snake

..thanks

Edited March 9, 2018 by JAS21

[fredob43]

8 hours ago, JAS21 said:

It's at least a floor re-tile job ...Mrs J walked on the tiles after I had removed the grout and one cracked ...a little hollow undernesth.

 

Can you tell me what I bed the toilet and wash basin pedestal on ... I noticed when an upstsirs toilet was taken out years a he made quite a thick bed with some pink stuff

 

Yes I will get that rubber joint.

And I have a 12 M snake

..thanks

Sounds like your tiles haven't been fixed with good adhesive if they have come loose.

Most times here they use Cement with waterproof in it. You can obtain good tile powered fixative. That only needs a thinner amount applied. Just chip out a bit of the old cement first. Wood chisel works fine in that direction. Always work towards the centre, never towards the other tiles as you can chip them.

 

Try giving the tiles a tap. (End of plastic screwdriver works fine for that) if they sound hollow you will need to re-fix the dodgy ones as well. Grout will never fix a loose tile. Might hold it for a few weeks then you'll be back to leakage again, as the grout will crack.

 

You could as suggested use Epoxy grout to fix basin and toilet, as long as you don't move it till it's set/cured. Can also be used to fill any gaps between the basin and the pedestal. Just make a clean job whilst doing same. I have noticed that they fix toilets with cement this also works. Provided you cut it back and put mastic round the joint to make it look tidy.

 

I have found that the pipes get blocked here, I think with old soap as most of the water going down the sink is tepid at best. I always pore some hot/boiling water through said pipes every few months seems to clear it well. If it's really blocked a little caustic soda also with hot water works fine, just give it time to work. Don't stand over it as you can get some fumes, then flush out with more Hot water or high pressure hose. The above saves buggering about with snake cleaner, not always easy to get into the pipes. Only use caustic if you have S/Steel waist or a good plastic one.

 

Hope the above helps, if you require any other info just ask.

 

Edited March 9, 2018 by fredob43

[JAS21]

8 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Sounds like your tiles haven't been fixed with good adhesive if they have come loose.

Most times here they use Cement with waterproof in it. You can obtain good tile powered fixative. That only needs a thinner amount applied. Just chip out a bit of the old cement first. Wood chisel works fine in that direction. Always work towards the centre, never towards the other tiles as you can chip them.

 

Try giving the tiles a tap. (End of plastic screwdriver works fine for that) if they sound hollow you will need to re-fix the dodgy ones as well. Grout will never fix a loose tile. Might hold it for a few weeks then you'll be back to leakage again, as the grout will crack.

 

You could as suggested use Epoxy grout to fix basin and toilet, as long as you don't move it till it's set/cured. Can also be used to fill any gaps between the basin and the pedestal. Just make a clean job whilst doing same. I have noticed that they fix toilets with cement this also works. Provided you cut it back and put mastic round the joint to make it look tidy.

 

I have found that the pipes get blocked here, I think with old soap as most of the water going down the sink is tepid at best. I always pore some hot/boiling water through said pipes every few months seems to clear it well. If it's really blocked a little caustic soda also with hot water works fine, just give it time to work. Don't stand over it as you can get some fumes, then flush out with more Hot water or high pressure hose. The above saves buggering about with snake cleaner, not always easy to get into the pipes. Only use caustic if you have S/Steel waist or a good plastic one.

 

Hope the above helps, if you require any other info just ask.

 

Thank you for that Mr F43 I may take you up on that offer ....

 

The problem stems from the builder. We bought the first (luckily) of the last eight houses in the village. These houses had added a side covered patio and at the rear maids room, shower room and outside kitchen.

 

‘Someone brainless idiot’ decided that it was not necessary to pile to the same depth as the house (house on 20M piles) for these add-ons… resulting in those areas dropping.

 

So the builder then had to pile correctly and join the piles so that the areas in question would then sit on the cross steels or whatever they used … we were in the UK when this was done but ‘inherited’ took a load of photos for us… what a mess. This was 12-13 years ago now. My markers show that the dropping appears to have stopped about four years ago.

 

Those who built extensions on the rear … builder refused to/or couldn’t sort … have big problems!

 

The supposedly 1:200 floor slope in the shower room is now very slightly –ve. The room is 2.3M long. Tiles coming up today and then I will decide what to do … one option is to re-pipe the drains out to the garden as will need less slope adjustment.

 

Do you know up to how thick you can apply cement gow … wondering if I can ‘re-screed’ part with cement gow and then the thicker areas with sand/cement screed, complicated but think I can sort.

 

I wonder why they put the shower between the washbasin and toilet as this results in the whole floor getting wet as they put the drain on the far side of the toilet!. There is not enough room to re-locate the shower nearer the drain unless I move the toilet and I just don’t want to do that.

 

Anyway am a little handicapped for a few days … sixty odd years ago my father told me ‘never cut towards yourself’, yesterday I forgot and the screwdriver went a just little way into the gap between thumb and first finger. ‘kin hurts today!

 

The house has been built with quality bits (mainly) and is nice, the outlook which is to the village green is okay but the plumbing has been somewhat of a problem.

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by JAS21

[fredob43]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Thank you for that Mr F43 I may take you up on that offer ....

 

The problem stems from the builder. We bought the first (luckily) of the last eight houses in the village. These houses had added a side covered patio and at the rear maids room, shower room and outside kitchen.

 

‘Someone brainless idiot’ decided that it was not necessary to pile to the same depth as the house (house on 20M piles) for these add-ons… resulting in those areas dropping.

 

So the builder then had to pile correctly and join the piles so that the areas in question would then sit on the cross steels or whatever they used … we were in the UK when this was done but ‘inherited’ took a load of photos for us… what a mess. This was 12-13 years ago now. My markers show that the dropping appears to have stopped about four years ago.

 

Those who built extensions on the rear … builder refused to/or couldn’t sort … have big problems!

 

The supposedly 1:200 floor slope in the shower room is now very slightly –ve. The room is 2.3M long. Tiles coming up today and then I will decide what to do … one option is to re-pipe the drains out to the garden as will need less slope adjustment.

 

Do you know up to how thick you can apply cement gow … wondering if I can ‘re-screed’ part with cement gow and then the thicker areas with sand/cement screed, complicated but think I can sort.

 

I wonder why they put the shower between the washbasin and toilet as this results in the whole floor getting wet as they put the drain on the far side of the toilet!. There is not enough room to re-locate the shower nearer the drain unless I move the toilet and I just don’t want to do that.

 

Anyway am a little handicapped for a few days … sixty odd years ago my father told me ‘never cut towards yourself’, yesterday I forgot and the screwdriver went a just little way into the gap between thumb and first finger. ‘kin hurts today!

 

The house has been built with quality bits (mainly) and is nice, the outlook which is to the village green is okay but the plumbing has been somewhat of a problem.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that you have buggered yourself. It's called do it yourself. That's why I always get a local to do any work.

 

Right the way Thais fix tiles is with an up to 2" cement screed. Seems to work well if it's done correctly. There in lies the problem they don't always do it correctly.

 

Might be a good idea to get rid of the original screed then it can be relayed with the correct slope. Suggest you get a local to do as they will have, hopefully ideal tools/knowledge to do same.

 

Having looked at your earlier snaps you do have enough room to go on top of your old set up provided you take the old tiles off first. A finished job is only as good as the foundations. Loose tile ain't a good foundation.

 

Nice house by the way. 

 

[carlyai]

Sorry to hear that you have buggered yourself. It's called do it yourself. That's why I always get a local to do any work.
 
Right the way Thais fix tiles is with an up to 2" cement screed. Seems to work well if it's done correctly. There in lies the problem they don't always do it correctly.
 
Might be a good idea to get rid of the original screed then it can be relayed with the correct slope. Suggest you get a local to do as they will have, hopefully ideal tools/knowledge to do same.
 
Having looked at your earlier snaps you do have enough room to go on top of your old set up provided you take the old tiles off first. A finished job is only as good as the foundations. Loose tile ain't a good foundation.
 
Nice house by the way. 
 

If this helps: You can also tile over the old tiles, if the old tiles are fixed properly. You can redo the hollow sounding ones and get the correct small bags of concrete mix that are for tiling over old tiles. We've done it here.

You can also get glass 10 - 15 mm thick that the windows shops will install for a shower screen plus door, if nothing else will fit. Bit expensive but nice.

If you get someone to do it, you need to find a tiler.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[fredob43]

9 minutes ago, carlyai said:

If this helps: You can also tile over the old tiles, if the old tiles are fixed properly. You can redo the hollow sounding ones and get the correct small bags of concrete mix that are for tiling over old tiles. We've done it here.

You can also get glass 10 - 15 mm thick that the windows shops will install for a shower screen plus door, if nothing else will fit. Bit expensive but nice.

If you get someone to do it, you need to find a tiler.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Agree with you. But Jas21 said that his tiles were loose well some of them, so get rid of the lot as you cant guarantee the rest will not give a problem at a later date. You can also get tile fixative similar to the stuff used in the UK. The Thais seem to use cement, but that does need a much thicker bed.

[JAS21]

Everything is out ... the WC came out undamaged... it wasn't exactly fitted as you would expect ... probably it was!  No wax ring ... only thing that stopped the smell was the 'whatever glued it' to the tiles.

 

The room is about 2.2M by 1.7M. Basically no slope ...well a tiny bit right to left. The diagonal to the outlet is about 2.3M. So I need a slope of about 1cm I think.

 

I have 6cm at the door and a tile is 50mm excluding adhesive.

 

So I want to know the minimum thickness of screed ... that is okay at the drain outlet. I suppose that I could 'hook' a bit off the bottom of the door if needed.... thanks

 

I will try and get someone to do but ... where we live a small job like this no one wants ... and it's not worth taking the risk with an 'odd jobber' ... might as well do it myself.

 

My N95 mask worked well ... I put two filters in ... 1st was quite dirty ... 2nd one clean 

 

 

 

 

[fredob43]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Everything is out ... the WC came out undamaged... it wasn't exactly fitted as you would expect ... probably it was!  No wax ring ... only thing that stopped the smell was the 'whatever glued it' to the tiles.

 

The room is about 2.2M by 1.7M. Basically no slope ...well a tiny bit right to left. The diagonal to the outlet is about 2.3M. So I need a slope of about 1cm I think.

 

I have 6cm at the door and a tile is 50mm excluding adhesive.

 

So I want to know the minimum thickness of screed ... that is okay at the drain outlet. I suppose that I could 'hook' a bit off the bottom of the door if needed.... thanks

 

I will try and get someone to do but ... where we live a small job like this no one wants ... and it's not worth taking the risk with an 'odd jobber' ... might as well do it myself.

 

My N95 mask worked well ... I put two filters in ... 1st was quite dirty ... 2nd one clean 

 

 

 

 

That's how they fix toilets here normally with cement seems to work fine. That's why I suggested epoxy grout to fix.

You will need a trowel with large teeth also some waterproof tile cement/adhesive (Don't get rapid set as in this heat you'll be in trouble) using that you don't need a thick cement screed. More than likely available at global and the likes.

 

You can use the line that they put on as a guide to get them strait. That's if you have got the same size tiles. But you could do it the correct way and put a nail in both ends and put some string between same as a guide

 

You will have to allow for the slope as you place tiles suggest 1/2cm for the high areas. Dropping down to the outlet. Bit of faffing about if you take your time you should be fine.

 

N/B start from the low bit and work up from there. Once the main bit is set and dry that's when you put the cut edge tiles in.

Just thought you could put some sealer on the old cement first. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by fredob43

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, fredob43 said:

That's how they fix toilets here normally with cement seems to work fine. That's why I suggested epoxy grout to fix.

You will need a trowel with large teeth also some waterproof tile cement/adhesive (Don't get rapid set as in this heat you'll be in trouble) using that you don't need a thick cement screed. More than likely available at global and the likes.

 

You can use the line that they put on as a guide to get them strait. That's if you have got the same size tiles. But you could do it the correct way and put a nail in both ends and put some string between same as a guide

 

You will have to allow for the slope as you place tiles suggest 1/2cm for the high areas. Dropping down to the outlet. Bit of faffing about if you take your time you should be fine.

 

N/B start from the low bit and work up from there. Once the main bit is set and dry that's when you put the cut edge tiles in.

Just thought you could put some sealer on the old cement first. 

Thanks ...

 

I brought my notched trowel with me from the UK ... a little rusty but okay ...

 

Putting the slope in whilst tiling is not that easy ... bit of faffing is an understatement. Think an idea is to use cement gow to try and get at least a +ve slope to start with as at the moment it's slightly the other way. So looks like you say 1:100 slope is okay.

 

Yes I'll tile to get half tiles at each side and get some 2mm 'thingees' to help me space and use a line.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by JAS21