Help with Deportation

[rufmun]

Hello guys!

 

I am new in this forum as I am looking for some true information about my case. Let me explain you.

 

I use to live in Thailand as tourist, and I had 3 tourist visas issued in Penang, Malaysia (a hotspot, I know). So at the time I ask for the 3rd TOURIST VISA they put me a red remark on my stamp. OK, I know what this means.

 

The problem comes when, on last 25th february, I tried to entry Thailand by Suvarnabumi Airport, directly from Ho Chi Minh (Vietnam). The officer stopped me and started making questions about "what am I doing in Thailand?" They clearly thought I was working there. 

 

I shown them cash twice, more than enough, and also I offered to show some banks statements. Nothing worked...

 

They put me this stamp in my passport (I will attach here) and I had to spent one night in a room until the next day, when an airline staff came for me and take me to Ho Chi Minh, under deportation status...

 

Now I am in Spain and I sent all the paperwork to obtain a tourist visa from Thai consulate in Madrid. Do you know if I have to wait some period before trying again?

 

The reason they wrote on that stamp, appearently, is "no proof of funds". And, as far as I know, this is not a blacklist stamp but a refusal stamp. Doesn't it?

 

Sorry for bothering you. Thanks in advance.

[ubonjoe]

It is a denial of entry stamp not deportation.

You were denied entry under clause 2 of section 12 of the immigration act which is a lack of financial proof for your stay in the country.

You can enter the country at anytime but you should have at least the equivalent of 20k baht in cash in any exchangeable currency.

Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working. 

[lazygourmet]

As Khun Ubonjoe said: this is not a deportation but a denial of entry.

A little bit too late now, but you should have been able to have it cancelled by filling a TM 11 form to appeal against the immigration officer who stamped your passport.

That happened to me four years ago and within an hour I was welcome back to Thailand while they were still dreaming to put me back on the next flight to Brussels.

Scanned Document.pdf

[darrendsd]

33 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is a denial of entry stamp not deportation.

You were denied entry under clause 2 of section 12 of the immigration act which is a lack of financial proof for your stay in the country.

You can enter the country at anytime but you should have at least the equivalent of 20k baht in cash in any exchangeable currency.

Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working. 

"You can enter the country at anytime but you should have at least the equivalent of 20k baht in cash in any exchangeable currency.

Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working." 

 

He showed this when he was denied, having the 20K and proof of a means to stay no longer seems enough, this is not the first time this has happened lately, it seems if they decide they want to deny you then it is going to happen no matter what you show them

[lazygourmet]

4 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

"You can enter the country at anytime but you should have at least the equivalent of 20k baht in cash in any exchangeable currency.

Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working." 

 

He showed this when he was denied, having the 20K and proof of a means to stay no longer seems enough, this is not the first time this has happened lately, it seems if they decide they want to deny you then it is going to happen no matter what you show them

Suspicion of working illegally.

That is the usual excuse to not let you in when they decide so.

But as I mentioned previously: you can always fight for your rights ; and it works!

[elviajero]

You were denied entry for not having the means for making a living, but you weren’t formally deported.

 

Denying you work in the country throws up the question of how you make a living, and showing 10K/20K in cash or bank statements doesn’t, necessarily, satisfy that question/concern.

 

Note that even if you are issued with a visa in Spain it does not guarantee that you will be allowed to enter, and a record of your denied enter will be in your immigrant record. That said, having been denied entry doesn’t mean you’ll be denied again in the future as it will be down to the IO on the day.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You were denied entry for not having the means for making a living, but you weren’t formally deported.

Clause 2 of section 12 states this. You misquoted it.

"2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom."

 

[DipStick]

1 hour ago, rufmun said:

I use to live in Thailand as tourist, and I had 3 tourist visas issued in Penang,

These six words of your post is a good pointer of your lifestyle.

 

[scubascuba3]

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working. 

I know about the 20k baht equivalent requirement, but what is the above?

 

[ubonjoe]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

I know about the 20k baht equivalent requirement, but what is the above?

 

To prevent them from suspecting you plan on working here.

[rufmun]

8 minutes ago, DipStick said:

These six words of your post is a good pointer of your lifestyle.

 

Yes, probably it is. But it doesn't mean I don't have any money. Doesn't it?

[rufmun]

23 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You were denied entry for not having the means for making a living, but you weren’t formally deported.

 

Denying you work in the country throws up the question of how you make a living, and showing 10K/20K in cash or bank statements doesn’t, necessarily, satisfy that question/concern.

 

Note that even if you are issued with a visa in Spain it does not guarantee that you will be allowed to enter, and a record of your denied enter will be in your immigrant record. That said, having been denied entry doesn’t mean you’ll be denied again in the future as it will be down to the IO on the day.

Yep, I know. If it happens to me again I will try the same, showing them cash, statements and try to make them understand I AM NOT F*** WORKING (joke)

[rufmun]

56 minutes ago, lazygourmet said:

As Khun Ubonjoe said: this is not a deportation but a denial of entry.

A little bit too late now, but you should have been able to have it cancelled by filling a TM 11 form to appeal against the immigration officer who stamped your passport.

That happened to me four years ago and within an hour I was welcome back to Thailand while they were still dreaming to put me back on the next flight to Brussels.

Scanned Document.pdf

So when can I ask for TM11 form? Right there, at IO? Thanks for your reply

[Crossy]

How DO you make your living? Demonstrating work outside Thailand (contract) is handy, if you are of "independent means" (rich) the Thailand Elite Card is a good option for hassle free stay.

[rufmun]

Thanks everyone for your advices and replies!

[scubascuba3]

To prevent them from suspecting you plan on working here.

I think i misunderstood, you said "Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working" it was in a new paragraph after the 20k requirement so i guessed it was an additional requirement but you were referring to the 20k

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

To prevent them from suspecting you plan on working here.

I think i misunderstood, you said "Also proof to show you have a means to stay here without working" it was in a new paragraph after the 20k requirement so i guessed it was an additional requirement but you were referring to the 20k

The the 20k is a reuired to enter the country is the reason for denial under clause 2 that was for his previous denial.

The other was for his next entry when they could use a different clause for denial.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

As Khun Ubonjoe said: this is not a deportation but a denial of entry.
A little bit too late now, but you should have been able to have it cancelled by filling a TM 11 form to appeal against the immigration officer who stamped your passport.
That happened to me four years ago and within an hour I was welcome back to Thailand while they were still dreaming to put me back on the next flight to Brussels.
Scanned Document.pdf

Sounds like its worth having a TM11 form in advance, ready and waiting for this scenario?

[lazygourmet]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

1 hour ago, lazygourmet said:

As Khun Ubonjoe said: this is not a deportation but a denial of entry.
A little bit too late now, but you should have been able to have it cancelled by filling a TM 11 form to appeal against the immigration officer who stamped your passport.
That happened to me four years ago and within an hour I was welcome back to Thailand while they were still dreaming to put me back on the next flight to Brussels.
Scanned Document.pdf

Sounds like its worth having a TM11 form in advance, ready and waiting for this scenario?

Exactly...

Always get ready for the worst.

Bank statements, credit cards and/or cash will not do the trick ; but feeling confident regarding the law that they are trying to implement will.

[scubascuba3]

Exactly...
Always get ready for the worst.
Bank statements, credit cards and/or cash will not do the trick ; but feeling confident regarding the law that they are trying to implement will.

Well, the idea was good, but nothing comes up when i Google. Anyone have a TM11 form template?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

21 minutes ago, lazygourmet said:

Exactly...
Always get ready for the worst.
Bank statements, credit cards and/or cash will not do the trick ; but feeling confident regarding the law that they are trying to implement will.

Well, the idea was good, but nothing comes up when i Google. Anyone have a TM11 form template?

Link for download.

 https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1486548054958.pdf

[anon789561]

there seems to be no real consistency when tourists are getting pulled up on this. from what i have read on here it seems that some IO's on certain days will decide, right let's deny a tourist and you got unlucky. by their own visa rules, you were within the rules really and the fact they use no funds against people that show the funds, i think that's wrong. anyway, i would certainly keep that TM11 form with you as may well help. gone are the days of continuous back to back tourist and visa exempts. christ back in the day people used to just leave their passports at the wall restaurant in silom over night and pick them up next day all stamped up

[Cadbury]

19 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

there seems to be no real consistency when tourists are getting pulled up on this. from what i have read on here it seems that some IO's on certain days will decide, right let's deny a tourist and you got unlucky. by their own visa rules, you were within the rules really and the fact they use no funds against people that show the funds, i think that's wrong. anyway, i would certainly keep that TM11 form with you as may well help. gone are the days of continuous back to back tourist and visa exempts. christ back in the day people used to just leave their passports at the wall restaurant in silom over night and pick them up next day all stamped up

I am not a visa expert but it seems that a Tourist Visa is what the name suggests....for tourists who want to visit Thailand and then return to their home country. Not for people who decide to use it once as a tourist and then try to live permanently in Thailand. Falling in love and needing to work to survive are not in the conditions of issue.

It seems now as if the game is up for the gameplayers. They need to extend their imagination and try something else.

 

 

[anon789561]

4 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

I am not a visa expert but it seems that a Tourist Visa is what the name suggests....for tourists who want to visit Thailand and then return to their home country. Not for people who decide to use it once as a tourist and then try to live permanently in Thailand. Falling in love and needing to work to survive are not in the conditions of issue.

It seems now as if the game is up for the gameplayers. They need to extend their imagination and try something else.

 

 

true, but this guy doesn't seem to have been working or have fallen in love. wasn't really living here. more a tourist with enough money to be here for long periods at a time. there's plenty of them too that thailand loses out on because of these enforcements i think

[saakura]

19 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

true, but this guy doesn't seem to have been working or have fallen in love. wasn't really living here. more a tourist with enough money to be here for long periods at a time. there's plenty of them too that thailand loses out on because of these enforcements i think

Umm....that is what they all say, but i have my doubts. 9 times out of 10, the immigration guys are right (this is my feeling, not statistics). Genuine wealthy tourists will be welcomed any number of times on any number of any kind of visa (exempt, tourist etc) with smiles and a big wai. They can sniff out the pretenders, thais are very shrewd when it comes to money.

[jackdd]

20 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

I am not a visa expert but it seems that a Tourist Visa is what the name suggests....for tourists who want to visit Thailand and then return to their home country. Not for people who decide to use it once as a tourist and then try to live permanently in Thailand. 

But it's not up to you or the IO to decide who is a tourist. What if somebody just takes a year or two break from work and wants to spend this time in Thailand? By law it's legal to have as many tourist visas or visa exempts as you want as long as you have money. So this here are just some immigration officers who abuse their powers. If Thailand would not want long term tourists they could just enact laws which other countries have, for example a maximum of 180 days per year in the country on tourist visas, but they didn't do this.

[anon789561]

4 minutes ago, saakura said:

Umm....that is what they all say, but i have my doubts. 9 times out of 10, the immigration guys are right (this is my feeling, not statistics). Genuine wealthy tourists will be welcomed any number of times on any number of any kind of visa (exempt, tourist etc) with smiles and a big wai. They can sniff out the pretenders, thais are very shrewd when it comes to money.

thais are shrewd when it comes to money. OK

[Cadbury]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

But it's not up to you or the IO to decide who is a tourist. What if somebody just takes a year or two break from work and wants to spend this time in Thailand? By law it's legal to have as many tourist visas or visa exempts as you want as long as you have money. So this here are just some immigration officers who abuse their powers. If Thailand would not want long term tourists they could just enact laws which other countries have, for example a maximum of 180 days per year in the country on tourist visas, but they didn't do this.

As I said I am not an expert. But I think you are pulling my leg when you talk glibly of a two year tourist. I would imagine that the immigration people would not define that sort of person as a tourist but more of a resident. And perhaps even a working resident depending on their age and appearance. They make the rules.

[saakura]

4 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

thais are shrewd when it comes to money. OK

Not talking about the gogo bar girls or the Pattaya/Isaan teeraks.

[anon789561]

5 minutes ago, saakura said:

Not talking about the gogo bar girls or the Pattaya/Isaan teeraks.

didn't say you were.