Cops wages should be raised to combat corruption and bribery

 

Picture: Sanook

 

As the Police Reform Committee prepares to propose raising the salary of lower ranking officers the Thai media has published details of what a cop actually earns.

 

Proposals are being mulled to set lower limits at 15,000 baht a month to 33,000 a month.

 

At the lower lever this would represent a big increase. At present a first year recruit from the police training academy can expect to earn as little as 6,970 baht. This can rise to 29,690 for the rank of police sergeant major.

 

By the time of the third year a constable could earn about 10,000 baht while a senior sergeant major would be on 38,000 baht.

 

A major could expect to net 38,000, a police lieutenant colonel 54,000, a police colonel 58,000 and a special police colonel 69,000. These are the top rates.

 

Sanook said that the range of salaries meant a daily rate of just 162 baht for the lowest paid up to 2,301 baht for the most.

 

As an example the Pattaya station chief enjoys the rank of Police Colonel.

 

The salaries of the more senior members of the police - the generals - were not mentioned.

 

The NCOs (non commissioned officers) have the rank of senior sergeant major down to constable.

 

The officers are those ranked from sub-lieutenant up to police general.

 

Thaivisa notes that the number of men and women in the police force is thought to number around a quarter of a million with around 17% of the civil service in the police. The police force is often called the fourth armed force in Thailand.

 

Wikipedia says that a 5,000 baht increase in salaries would be "politically untenable".

 

Sanook said that legal add-ons make most police salaries worth about 25-46,000 baht a month. 

 

Source: Sanook

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-03-13

Maybe the wages should be increased, however, I fail to see that action stopping corruption and bribery.

Cops should start doing their work which is going on patrol and writing fines....if they do that well they can get a raise but if they keep on doing nothing they should be replaced.

No wonder we can see a Police General bowing to president of ITD.

28 minutes ago, webfact said:

Proposals are being mulled to set lower limits at 15,000 baht a month to 33,000 a month.

A wage increase of over 100%. This could only happen in Thailand. Next, they'll look at ways of getting the lazy sods off their asses . . . at least whilst their smart-phones are charging.

Being on the "Distribution List" is part of the salary package. That is why it hurts hard for those who are transferred to "inactive duties". They are automatically removed from the "Distribution List" as punishment. Wives and mia nois can get very angry at their loss of income. And that counts as double punishment.

Increase cops wages, ok, but do people actually believe it will stop the rampant corruption?

As Cadbury says, wives mia nois like the money, so corruption would continue unabated.

42 minutes ago, Thian said:

Cops should start doing their work which is going on patrol and writing fines....if they do that well they can get a raise but if they keep on doing nothing they should be replaced.

Wow, OK.

Then the next time you are stopped and given a fine, don't complain.

In fact, I would expect you to come on here and praise them for a job well done........

Eventually this will have to be an important part of modernization.  But only a part.  Presently the best paid officers seem to be the most in need of 'extras'.  There does not seem to be a salary level that makes for honest work.

This is the first step, next can we expect professionalism at all levels?

Given the disdain the RTP are treated with by professional forces across the world they might want to look at this, and maybe in the process they will earn the respect of the Thai populace.

46 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

Maybe the wages should be increased, however, I fail to see that action stopping corruption and bribery.

You are right. Look at Prawit - and all the other junta 'takers'. Wealth is no block to greed.

Whilst I accept that 7K a month is a deridory wage, even for someone fresh from training, corruption is so embedded that a significant salary rise will merely serve to increase the "prices" paid for appointments, and therefore the need for more extortion to recoup that "investment".

 

Perhaps the only answer is to start again, creating a new police force, smaller, better paid, trained and properly led.

 

Something along those lines was done in Hong Kong in the early 1980s, transforming the "best police force that money can buy"!

It's a step in the right direction. They might want to look to Australia for ideas. I remember some Australian guy telling me that Australia's police force was historically corrupt but they introduced a package of measures (including salary increases) that mostly put an end to the corruption culture.

1 hour ago, Thaiwrath said:

Maybe the wages should be increased, however, I fail to see that action stopping corruption and bribery.

You're right, a step in the right direction, but increased wages alone won't do it.

 

In addition to providing a livable wage, the gov must also enact strict corruption laws which will result in jail time, not a transfer or forced retirement.  This would provide both a positive reinforcement and negative consequences.  But like everything else, changing the police "culture" will take some time. 

I say yes, give them more money.

No it wont stop the corruption

But if they get good money , you can try and get them to do there jobs. 

14 minutes ago, JAG said:

Whilst I accept that 7K a month is a deridory wage, even for someone fresh from training, corruption is so embedded that a significant salary rise will merely serve to increase the "prices" paid for appointments, and therefore the need for more extortion to recoup that "investment".

 

Perhaps the only answer is to start again, creating a new police force, smaller, better paid, trained and properly led.

 

Something along those lines was done in Hong Kong in the early 1980s, transforming the "best police force that money can buy"!

That would be the solution, but Hong Kong was a lot smaller then Thailand and it was under better rule. I can't see this working here. But yea in an ideal world it would be the best solution.

 

I also don't think that raising a salary alone would do it.. punishment for corruption should be then much higher and dismissal should be much easier. But the whole culture change....  I doubt it.

 

I don't have the answers, i doubt anyone has. 

I am as skeptical as every single person with a brain is!

 

However, a raise in salary is something that must be done in conjunction with cleaning out the police force; there is simply no other way.

 

I recommend a story from the South China Morning Post on anti-corruption efforts there; 

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1428093/forty-years-its-creation-how-icac-cleaned-corruption-hong-kong

 

Before any raise in salary is given, there needs to be a society-wide agreement that things have gotten out of hand and needs to be rectified. That means every political party, every law-enforcement person, every bureaucrat, every businessman, every worker, etc. Etc. Etc.

 

I say delay the raise until there is a wide-spread discussion and agreement made; if there is just a raise without MAJOR reforms, then it is a waste of time and money.

 

PS please note the amnesty given to HK police officers in the SCMP story; that'll be one hell of a discussion to have here! That said, it is something that will be required if there is ever going to be a change, as tough as that is to swallow.

 

PPS Get rid of the idiotic NACC!!! It is already too late for it.

 

Edited March 13, 20188 yr by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

8 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

I recommend a story from the South China Morning Post on anti-corruption efforts there; 

 

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1428093/forty-years-its-creation-how-icac-cleaned-corruption-hong-kong

Thank you. I was there round about that time, but as a young soldier had other things on my mind!

 

I  do remember the coppers getting quite stroppy. I also remember the standing joke that if you failed Sandhurst the Hong Kong Police would always take you...

Edited March 13, 20188 yr by JAG

You would need to raise the morality of an entire nation to counter corruption.....never going to happen! Live with it!

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Cops wages should be raised to combat corruption and bribery

The raise would have to be very significant to make up for incurred losses of the new job description.

what they need to do with the lower ranks is pay them a commission for traffic offenders they pick up/book, so many bad drivers/riders are on the roads breaking all the laws and getting away with it. If they made the police go out and patrol the roads picking up these offenders and then making them pay their fines and paid a commission to the officer/s concerned I am sure they would be chasing these bad drivers all over the country to boost their wages. Would remove many of the bad drivers/riders from the roads or at least make them obey the rules and stop a lot of the accidents we continually see. UNtil the police actually police the roads all the crap will continue, ranking officers can also be paid on the amount of fines their officers bring in, that will get them pushing the lower ranks to work harder too

The leaders should lead by example. If you don’t have clean and non corruptible police chiefs, raising wages alone would have little to nothing effect. The indecent and unexplained wealth the police chiefs amassed send a bad message downwards. Total structural overall starting from the top. Begs the question whether the country leaders have the political will. 

 

25 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The leaders should lead by example. If you don’t have clean and non corruptible police chiefs, raising wages alone would have little to nothing effect. The indecent and unexplained wealth the police chiefs amassed send a bad message downwards. Total structural overall starting from the top. Begs the question whether the country leaders have the political will. 

 

...but all the lower ranks all aspire to this unexplained wealth! Why would you be a cop otherwise?

2 hours ago, Ossy said:

A wage increase of over 100%. This could only happen in Thailand. Next, they'll look at ways of getting the lazy sods off their asses . . . at least whilst their smart-phones are charging.

 

That's NOT the proposed amount of increase. That's the RANGE of salary from the lowest rank to the upper rank range they're talking about.

43 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The leaders should lead by example. If you don’t have clean and non corruptible police chiefs, raising wages alone would have little to nothing effect. The indecent and unexplained wealth the police chiefs amassed send a bad message downwards. Total structural overall starting from the top. Begs the question whether the country leaders have the political will. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

...but all the lower ranks all aspire to this unexplained wealth! Why would you be a cop otherwise?

One of the lessons which I regularly do with Primary 6 is "Jobs - what do I want to be". I end up going round the class asking each child what they want to do when they leave school. Most of the answers are quite stereotypical, the girls want to be teachers, nurses and doctors, (apart from my daughter, who gave me a withering look and announced "Mr. John, you know I'm going to be a superstar!") and the boys soldiers or policemen. When asked why policemen, they almost always answer "big money"! It is that ingrained that 12 year olds realize it. I fully understand, as we all do, the need for change, but by heck, it is going to be difficult!

Respectfully, you are all missing the key element of the SCMP story.

 

The amount of money made in HK skyrocketed there after there was a clean-up of the police force. This is the selling point to Thai society at large, and one that will need to be repeated over and over.

 

Thailand fancies itself as the 'Hub' of the universe. You sell it as the hub of clean business in SE Asia and harp endlessly on the HK example of how people got rich doing this.

 

Appeal to the greed of the Somchai; have you got a better selling point? 

 

 

Edited March 13, 20188 yr by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

2 hours ago, nausea said:

It's a step in the right direction. They might want to look to Australia for ideas. I remember some Australian guy telling me that Australia's police force was historically corrupt but they introduced a package of measures (including salary increases) that mostly put an end to the corruption culture.

Although I do wish it worked that way, just look at America been given an example at Gun Control Laws.

 

Not only do they prove to the world they suck and are one of the most ignorant, hypocritical dos c..ts in the world, how could you consider Thai people would follow besides wishful thinking?

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Sanook said that legal add-ons make most police salaries worth about 25-46,000 baht a month. 

 

Sanook said that legal illegal add-ons make most police salaries worth about 25-46,000 baht a month.

 

Fixed it.

 

Perhaps any rises should be incremental, based on performance, professionalism and other Performance Indicators PI's as used by police forces worldwide, make the officer prove that he is worthy of a pay rise or promotion.

They don't understand the concept of greed i guess. 

What about offer it to police that actually abide by the laws and punish criminals.

That would be tackling Part 1 of the problem.