1 hour ago, nausea said:

To be honest, I've not really been following all the machinations, but I'm surprised the DUP agreed to this.

Agree, I’d be amazed.

could this be a case of waffle,or outright lies.

23 hours ago, nontabury said:

Well if this is true, then the British people have once again been shafted, by our own treacherous politicians.

 So much for democracy.

 

22 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Either way, Britain is on the path of FREEDOM!

 

Forum Brexiteers in a right old state, can't quite get their act together.

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

23 hours ago, nontabury said:

Well if this is true, then the British people have once again been shafted, by our own treacherous politicians.

 So much for democracy.

 

23 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Either way, Britain is on the path of FREEDOM!

 

Forum Brexiteers in a right old state, can't quite get their act together.

 

D'ya think it might be something to do with the fact that we're independent individuals who aren't trying to 'act together'?

19 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

D'ya think it might be something to do with the fact that we're independent individuals who aren't trying to 'act together'?

We are all independent individuals and we all have the ability to admit when we get it wrong.  It is just that some won't go there no matter how high the evidence keeps stacking up.

33 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

We are all independent individuals and we all have the ability to admit when we get it wrong.  It is just that some won't go there no matter how high the evidence keeps stacking up.

 

A government hampered by remainers who refuse to accept brexit is not evidence stacking up against the validity of brexit. Dodgy economic forecasts by discredited economists and rogue civil servants (see my first sentence) are not evidence stacking up against the validity of brexit.

12 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

A government hampered by remainers who refuse to accept brexit is not evidence stacking up against the validity of brexit. Dodgy economic forecasts by discredited economists and rogue civil servants (see my first sentence) are not evidence stacking up against the validity of brexit.

It is not the validity of Brexit, that is another argument.  It is about what can and is being achieved with Brexit "deals".  If you think that this is anything other than a complete screw-up then we are talking about different Brexits.

 

Maybe you should look at what is being agreed to by the Brexit supporting negotiators.  To keep using the excuse that there are remainers hampering the negotiations is pretty dumb given that those complaining are Johnson and Rees Mogg.

 

 

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   You can quote 3 sentences and then a link.   No more.  

12 hours ago, dunroaming said:

It is not the validity of Brexit, that is another argument.  It is about what can and is being achieved with Brexit "deals".  If you think that this is anything other than a complete screw-up then we are talking about different Brexits.

 

Maybe you should look at what is being agreed to by the Brexit supporting negotiators.  To keep using the excuse that there are remainers hampering the negotiations is pretty dumb given that those complaining are Johnson and Rees Mogg.

 

 

If what is being leaked so far is true and Brexit goes belly up, which I don’t think it will, we Britexiteers will be able to put the blame on the  petty dictators in Brussels. What the establishment should have allowed, is for someone like Nigel Farage to be the principle negotiator, and then if things then went wrong, the blame could be put on him and all of the 17+million Brits who voted to leave this so called Union.

4 hours ago, nontabury said:

If what is being leaked so far is true and Brexit goes belly up, which I don’t think it will, we Britexiteers will be able to put the blame on the  petty dictators in Brussels. What the establishment should have allowed, is for someone like Nigel Farage to be the principle negotiator, and then if things then went wrong, the blame could be put on him and all of the 17+million Brits who voted to leave this so called Union.

Loose translation: "Say it ain't so!"

London to a brick NI ends up staying in the customs union. The DUP will hate it, but the English have a century’s worth of track record in the decolonisation game where they always end up throwing their ‘kith and kin’ under the proverbial bus...

7 hours ago, tebee said:

Brexit may not go belly up, but what will be achieved is a brexit in name only were we leave but still obey all the EU regulations. The alternative is to wreck the economy  and renege on British treaty obligations.

 

Farage and all the rest of the Brexshi*ers  are very good on pontificating, but pretty useless  when it comes to details. Problem is it's those pesky details you need to get right in a treaty negotiation. We have no one who seems able or even interested in getting to grips with these, so it's the EU that has produced the necessary documents, which we have meekly  agreed to and signed. 

The U.K. does have people who are knowledgeably and are experts on how the bureaucrats in Brussels, have mismanaged this so called Union.

Yet for some strange reason Mrs May, a remainer, decided not to use these able people, instead as you correctly stated, she capitulated on just about every point.

The U.K. does have people who are knowledgeably and are experts on how the bureaucrats in Brussels, have mismanaged this so called Union.
Yet for some strange reason Mrs May, a remainer, decided not to use these able people, instead as you correctly stated, she capitulated on just about every point.

Seems TM has experts in mismanagement coming out of her ears at the moment though I am sure there is still room for one or two more.


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34 minutes ago, nontabury said:

The U.K. does have people who are knowledgeably and are experts on how the bureaucrats in Brussels, have mismanaged this so called Union.

Yet for some strange reason Mrs May, a remainer, decided not to use these able people, instead as you correctly stated, she capitulated on just about every point.

Sir Ivan Rogers was fired very early in the game because he apparently told May things she didn't want to hear. When you surround yourself with yes men is it surprising they don't give  you the right answers, but instead those they think you would like to hear  - hmm, a bit like Thailand that... 

So much for Brexit promises to the UK's fishing communities. 

 

The denizens of Grimsby must be delighted, they voted for Brexit and are getting exactly what 'project fear' predicted. 

 

Farming is next. 

14 hours ago, samran said:

London to a brick NI ends up staying in the customs union. The DUP will hate it, but the English have a century’s worth of track record in the decolonisation game where they always end up throwing their ‘kith and kin’ under the proverbial bus...

 

London to a brick that, once all the politicking is done, ROI and the EU will accept a semi-soft border with camera and computer monitoring of traffic in exchange for some minor political concessions related to the north. The fact that the DUP has been so quiet lately, coupled with the relevant UK trade departments working quietly with the relevant logistics and transport businesses, indicates that the framework is already being put in place

8 hours ago, tebee said:

Sir Ivan Rogers was fired very early in the game because he apparently told May things she didn't want to hear. When you surround yourself with yes men is it surprising they don't give  you the right answers, but instead those they think you would like to hear  - hmm, a bit like Thailand that... 

 

Sir Ivan Rogers was fired because he had 'gone native'. He disgraced himself, and had to take a job in the Falkland Islands he was so toxic after his EU shenanigans were exposed.

Inflammatory post reported and removed.  

 

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So much for Brexit promises to the UK's fishing communities. 

 

The denizens of Grimsby must be delighted, they voted for Brexit and are getting exactly what 'project fear' predicted. 

 

Farming is next. 

That occurred when the British electorate, were conned in 1975, into joining the E.u. 

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So much for Brexit promises to the UK's fishing communities. 

 

The denizens of Grimsby must be delighted, they voted for Brexit and are getting exactly what 'project fear' predicted. 

 

Farming is next. 

 

For twenty-one months.

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

London to a brick that, once all the politicking is done, ROI and the EU will accept a semi-soft border with camera and computer monitoring of traffic in exchange for some minor political concessions related to the north. The fact that the DUP has been so quiet lately, coupled with the relevant UK trade departments working quietly with the relevant logistics and transport businesses, indicates that the framework is already being put in place

And who is going to pay for all this infrastructure, the cost of people to monitor it  and the cost of replacing it every other week after the IRA blow it up?

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

And who is going to pay for all this infrastructure, the cost of people to monitor it  and the cost of replacing it every other week after the IRA blow it up?

 

You forgot to provide a reason why the IRA would blow the border crossings up.

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

You forgot to provide a reason why the IRA would blow the border crossings up.

They did it last time we had infrastructure at border crossings .....

Just now, tebee said:

They did it last time we had infrastructure at border crossings .....

 

Nope. The IRA used to make huge amounts of money from the last hard border, from smuggling all kinds of things, including fuel, through border-straggling farms, making lots of money on excises amongst other things. The IRA won't be averse to a semi-hard border.

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nope. The IRA used to make huge amounts of money from the last hard border, from smuggling all kinds of things, including fuel, through border-straggling farms, making lots of money on excises amongst other things. The IRA won't be averse to a semi-hard border.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Campaign_(Irish_Republican_Army)

 

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Campaign_(Irish_Republican_Army)

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/north-south-crackdown-on-iras-hidden-wealth-6107019.html

10 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nope. The IRA used to make huge amounts of money from the last hard border, from smuggling all kinds of things, including fuel, through border-straggling farms, making lots of money on excises amongst other things. The IRA won't be averse to a semi-hard border.

So if the IRA are going to be back in the smuggling business, why won't they be interested in blowing up the things that will be monitoring doing that smuggling?  

1 minute ago, tebee said:

So if the IRA are going to be back in the smuggling business, why won't they be interested in blowing up the things that will be monitoring doing that smuggling?  

 

Didn't you read my link? The hard borders used to be bypassed. 'Friendly' farmers who had farms which straddled the borders used to accommodate the IRA.

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Didn't you read my link? The hard borders used to be bypassed. 'Friendly' farmers who had farms which straddled the borders used to accommodate the IRA.

Indeed - but it's much easier to take a tanker full of diesel along a metalled road than across farm land.  Cameras in remote rural areas are an easy target. The French have had to redesign their speed cameras as so many were set on fire costing £20,000 a piece to replace.

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

Indeed - but it's much easier to take a tanker full of diesel along a metalled road than across farm land.  Cameras in remote rural areas are an easy target. The French have had to redesign their speed cameras as so many were set on fire costing £20,000 a piece to replace.

 

 

The farms in question used to have huge tanks on either side of the border. They used to pump fuel backward and forward according to the regulations in order to make money on VAT and other duties. Do some research on it. It's a real eye-opener.

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

London to a brick that, once all the politicking is done, ROI and the EU will accept a semi-soft border with camera and computer monitoring of traffic in exchange for some minor political concessions related to the north. The fact that the DUP has been so quiet lately, coupled with the relevant UK trade departments working quietly with the relevant logistics and transport businesses, indicates that the framework is already being put in place

There are over 200 border crossing points - will they all be equipped with the necessary monitoring equipment or will some crossings require to be closed?

How do we prevent the influx of East Europeans from crossing the border if the cameras are only focused on the vehice registration details?